Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

[Robben]

Good to read that.Yet others have being getting penalties for getting bumped from someone else.Thats why I wrote we have to see the bigger picture here and not just our own races.
And since the system cannot detect the "offender" its either a random choice or always blame the guy from behind or both of them,.All these are not good enough for a "real simulator".

For me, it seems that it can determine fault though.. this is my point. Many times in the past I have been penalised for someone driving in to the back of me. Now, I am not being. It cannot be random choice for this to have happened consistently over 8 races.

Personally, I always avoid hitting people from behind by swerving or braking early when following someone closely. As @Mr616 said... maybe those people who think they are clean drivers are not so.

 

[Seb Weasel]

+1
Same here. I was actually surprised to see the clean race bonus, it had been so long! After being bumped several times too, which definitely resulted in SR- before.

This is not my experience of the new system. I have not been penalised for being bumped by someone, where I would have before. I have had 1 penalty in 8 races since the new system, and that was for hitting the wall on T1 of BB, and of those 8 races I have received clean race bonus for 7.

 

[Mr616]

Good to read that.Yet others have being getting penalties for getting bumped from someone else.Thats why I wrote we have to see the bigger picture here and not just our own races.
And since the system cannot detect the "offender" its either a random choice or always blame the guy from behind or both of them,.All these are not good enough for a "real simulator".

Once everybody learns how to not touch, the racing will improve. The people who are constantly on penalties will not be getting matched with those who incur very little penalties. Then blame won't matter as much, because you shouldn't be crashing or bumping anyway. Especially at SR:S and DR:A and above.

 

[Skiddy]

From the stories posted here PD's solution does seem like overkill, like mowing the lawn with napalm

I love the smell of mowed lawn in the morning..

 

[Robben]

+1
Same here. I was actually surprised to see the clean race bonus, it had been so long! After being bumped several times too, which definitely resulted in SR- before.

same.. I couldn't believe it, then another and another and another! I swear I've had maybe 5 or 6 since October, now 7 in two days

 

[Lord Grey]

I may have missed a posting somewhere.

I've seen others mention that penalties seem to be applied differently, depending on what level you are. Has anyone researched/proven this? Is the level DR or SR (or both)?

In my own experience as a B/S, the penalty system seems to be at least slightly smarter. In my first race under the new system, someone PIT me in a straight and the resulting chaos took out at least five other cars. At the end of the race, there were only three people with penalty markers.

 

[Robben]

I may have missed a posting somewhere.

I've seen others mention that penalties seem to be applied differently, depending on what level you are. Has anyone researched/proven this? Is the level DR or SR (or both)?

In my own experience as a B/S, the penalty system seems to be at least slightly smarter. In my first race under the new system, someone PIT me in a straight and the resulting chaos took out at least five other cars. At the end of the race, there were only three people with penalty markers.

Whether they are applied differently at the moment is conjecture... the fact that they now affect DR and SR is correct though as per the update notification.

 

[mthomas_95]

Are you sure on that???

Well I keep reading people at DR B and below talking about how they get hit in races and don't receive penalties, great for them and it works as they're not being punished for getting hit. As an S driver if someone behind so much as taps me mid corner even if no time/positions are gained or lost I get a penalty.

I do think this is PD purging the 10-15% S drivers who don't deserve to be in the top lobbys in time for the FIA season, hence the disconnect in penalties between DR levels. British guy with around 70,000 DR at Interlagos yesterday was well off the pace and dirty, went down almost 20,000 DR points in a day and is now below 50 SR. Only way I can think he got that unnaturally high DR is from Daily Race A (where not so many of the 'top' guys compete) or competing at off-peak hours as I'd never seen him before and usually I recognise most names in an FIA lobby.

Hopefully after a week or two enough bad eggs are purged and we can get the same penalty system as B-E, otherwise every top lobby will have 1st-3rd sprinting clear as 4th-20th trip over eachother serving penalties for Lap 1 love taps.

 

[JulesDennis]

For me, it seems that it can determine fault though.. this is my point. Many times in the past I have been penalised for someone driving in to the back of me. Now, I am not being. It cannot be random choice for this to have happened consistently over 8 races.

Personally, I always avoid hitting people from behind by swerving or braking early when following someone closely. As @Mr616 said... maybe those people who think they are clean drivers are not so.

I again have to point out that we need to see the bigger picture here.There are others that report getting a penalty,after getting hit from behind while the "offender" walk away penalty free (after the update).
We know that the system cannot determine who is at fault.If that was the case,it would have been done from day one and GTS would have the perfect penalty system ever created.
It also seems that the penalty system does not work the same way in every SR rating class.Check post #279 from @mc0029 .So a similar "tap"/contact will not give a penalty in SR B but it will in SR S races.Thats why "higher" rated guys are moaning more about it:because they are more affected by it.
So we have a system that:
- does not detect "offender" (btw not every contact means that the guy behind is at fault)
- the higher the SR,the easier it is to get a penalty.WHY?The penalty system should work the same way no matter your "level".
- gives a TIME penalty that has to be served on TRACK during the RACE
- also affect DR.Why should it?DR should be about results.
Like I've wrote before I actually like a strict penalty system that works.But I want it to be as fair as it can be and not "unrealistic".And for love of god the penalties should not be served on track.Either give a stop/go-drive through penalty or -if this is difficult to do for PD- add the penalty time in the final results (easy to do even for PD).People having to slow down during the race in order to "erase" a time penalty create even more problems and penalties."Slow down" should be a warning in case of cutting track if you dont want to get a penalty.

 

[kilesa4568]

It was the most boring thing ever. No racing, just a bunch of people doing nice, safe laps. No change in positions from grid, how thrilling.

After decades of watching motor sport, that actually sounds quite realistic. I can understand why people don't like it that way in a game but if the person in front doesn't make a big enough mistake for you to attempt a pass, live with it. Don't gamble on a half chance through impatience.

I dont know who is the "brain" behind the penalty system in GTS but he did not do a good job.And now he (or they) made it more strict,perhaps will force players to play more carefully but it does not mean that the system itself is working as it should.

I'm sure PD will be all ears if you know of a way to properly apportion blame? Half the videos shared here with the 'was I at fault?' tagline often split opinion and we're human. How can a programmer decide it with a game algorithm and get it right?

@Lion-Face shared a video that shows how harsh it can be and PD have gone a step too far with what they class as contact. If that contact is relaxed slightly, we get closer racing back but we keep the real threat of a race ruining penalty if we get it wrong. Someone will probably feel aggrieved but then they usually do. We're all blameless till we aren't.

I've seen others mention that penalties seem to be applied differently, depending on what level you are. Has anyone researched/proven this? Is the level DR or SR (or both)?

The patch notes only mention additional penalties depending on rank. Nothing about the initial penalty being more strict the higher up you are but I suppose it stands to reason that the top players will be getting harsher punishment because they're obviously much better drivers. If their group was a lot bigger, I doubt PD would have gone so far but as Spock once said, the needs of the many outweighs the need of the few. A small tweak for measuring contact should see a lot of them a bit happier. If they still get penalties after that, well...

 

[_ApexPredator]

Hopefully after a week or two enough bad eggs are purged and we can get the same penalty system as B-E, otherwise every top lobby will have 1st-3rd sprinting clear as 4th-20th trip over eachother serving penalties for Lap 1 love taps.

I hope you're right, because at the moment the penalties for S rank drivers are very severe - someone has a look up your inside, you leave room, they very slightly brush you as you're both side-by-side and you end up with a 2 second penalty.

Not to mention the fact that people serving penalties is often leading to many more being dished out to drivers trying to avoid them at all costs - your last paragraph is spot on.

It's diluted the racing to the point where if there's a group in front of you there's no point even looking at making a move - you'll only gain a position or so but the likelihood of them giving themselves a 2-5 second penalty is so high that you're far better off just cruising around behind waiting for the inevitable and you'll gain half-a-dozen spots.

 

[Rinsky]

Well I keep reading people at DR B and below talking about how they get hit in races and don't receive penalties, great for them and it works as they're not being punished for getting hit. As an S driver if someone behind so much as taps me mid corner even if no time/positions are gained or lost I get a penalty.

I do think this is PD purging the 10-15% S drivers who don't deserve to be in the top lobbys in time for the FIA season, hence the disconnect in penalties between DR levels. British guy with around 70,000 DR at Interlagos yesterday was well off the pace and dirty, went down almost 20,000 DR points in a day and is now below 50 SR. Only way I can think he got that unnaturally high DR is from Daily Race A (where not so many of the 'top' guys compete) or competing at off-peak hours as I'd never seen him before and usually I recognise most names in an FIA lobby.

Hopefully after a week or two enough bad eggs are purged and we can get the same penalty system as B-E, otherwise every top lobby will have 1st-3rd sprinting clear as 4th-20th trip over eachother serving penalties for Lap 1 love taps.

After reading all this thread I have to agree with you. It looks like they are purging the system in the higher ranks before the FIA race's begin. I see no other reason why they would just make the penalties more harsh in the DR A & DR S and not make it the same for everyone. It seems they are attempting to clear out the dirty drivers before theses race's start drawing the most attention. It is the FIA events GTS has promoted since day one and it wouldn't surprise me if the FIA it's self didn't have something to do with PD making the change.

 

[Ginger yido]

I raced last night after a few beers. did some practice laps, felt ok. Joined the lobby and I was 3sec off 15th, ok so I’m more drunk than I realised.

At this point I was not aware of the new rating system but I soon found out.

I got a 2/3 sec penalty for cutting a corner, within what seemed like a few hundred meters this went up to a 15second penalty. I seem to remember it saying “Great race, you gained two positions” at the end and thinking well that’s BS

I was SR S before the race. I’ve not looked yet to see the damage lol

 

[JacksHerer]

It would be nice if once people reach DR:A DR:S that penalties are only required for corner cutting, and the community control themselves.
Harsh penalties at the bottom ranks and reduced as you get better would make more sense in a way.

 

[Robben]

It also seems that the penalty system does not work the same way in every SR rating class.Check post #279 from @mc0029 .So a similar "tap"/contact will not give a penalty in SR B but it will in SR S races.Thats why "higher" rated guys are moaning more about it:because they are more affected by it.

I am SR S

 

[Mr616]

I hope you're right, because at the moment the penalties for S rank drivers are very severe - someone has a look up your inside, you leave room, they very slightly brush you as you're both side-by-side and you end up with a 2 second penalty.

Not to mention the fact that people serving penalties is often leading to many more being dished out to drivers trying to avoid them at all costs - your last paragraph is spot on.

It's diluted the racing to the point where if there's a group in front of you there's no point even looking at making a move - you'll only gain a position or so but the likelihood of them giving themselves a 2-5 second penalty is so high that you're far better off just cruising around behind waiting for the inevitable and you'll gain half-a-dozen spots.

I'll take a slight dilute on racing if it prevents the "I can pass from 1-2 car lengths back brigade" and the 4 wide through s bends that can only end in carnage. As I've said before, overtakes are more considered and realistic, and not optimistic. People seem to have stopped trying to overtake on sections that are never ever overtaking places.

At the top levels, people should be driving like it's real. You should watch a replay and it mimic real life, not a bumper car fest.

 

[Lord Grey]

Whether they are applied differently at the moment is conjecture... the fact that they now affect DR and SR is correct though as per the update notification.

I know there are a number of people here who have complained about dropping DR and/or SR into lower levels due to the new penalty system. Have any of those people experienced a more lax application of penalties (as in, not receiving them at all) after they dropped? And then a more strict application after they have regained their level?

Edit: Just saw the earlier message from @mc0029:

SR S? Its a completely different game at the lower SR levels. The SR B & A races I did yesterday on my fresh account had some door touching and small bumper taps with no penalties of note. They were fantastic races actually. Back to the main account, DR A SR 99. Bumped and pushed wide in turn 1 from pole, penalty. Slow to serve penalty, race over. Makes 0 sense that the penalties are so lax on the lower lever and race killing in SR S.

That may have answered my question. Thanks.

 

[mthomas_95]

It's diluted the racing to the point where if there's a group in front of you there's no point even looking at making a move - you'll only gain a position or so but the likelihood of them giving themselves a 2-5 second penalty is so high that you're far better off just cruising around behind waiting for the inevitable and you'll gain half-a-dozen spots.

It doesn't make for a great spectator sport seeing the podium places get 10-15 seconds on the rest of the group after just 3 laps. If it wasn't for 2-3 little errors in my first stint and being held up until I did the undercut I'd have finished about 40 seconds ahead of 4th in a top lobby. I'm not that good

 

[KK78]

On Maggiore last night, a guy in an Audi in front of me lost control at the downhill chicane and swerved onto the grass then back on to the track just in time to hit the side of me, hard, to my surprise no penalty or orange SR for me. Went on to get a clean race bonus! I'm DR B, SR A

 

[RaceFace85]

If you're having to tap someone whilst overtaking then you shouldn't be overtaking them at that point on the track. The gap is either there or it's not.

It's the same as saying I can park my car in a parking space but I'd be touching the other cars either side and that's ok. No, the space isn't big enough, find one that is!

It bugs the crap out of me when faster drivers close up behind you and pass straight away making contact (that usually throws you off line or off rythmn) rather than waiting for a clean gap on the other side of a corner!

Overtaking on a race track is never save. There is always the risk of touching the other car. You can never know what line or move the opponent will do while beeing overtaken. Also it can be that your car or the other car will get over or understeering. Also F1 drivers are touching each other while overtaking without getting a penalty. I think F1 drivers know how to drive.

 

[JulesDennis]

I'm sure PD will be all ears if you know of a way to properly apportion blame? Half the videos shared here with the 'was I at fault?' tagline often split opinion and we're human. How can a programmer decide it with a game algorithm and get it right?

I dont have a solution for them and I am not a software developer either.I never said that they should code a "who is at fault" penalty system.All I said is that since its impossible to do that (no other sim does that either),the penalty system should be done in the best way possible.
Unfortunatly the race penalty system PD has is perhaps the worse I've seen in any similar title I've tried.

The patch notes only mention additional penalties depending on rank. Nothing about the initial penalty being more strict the higher up you are but I suppose it stands to reason that the top players will be getting harsher punishment because they're obviously much better drivers. If their group was a lot bigger, I doubt PD would have gone so far but as Spock once said, the needs of the many outweighs the need of the few. A small tweak for measuring contact should see a lot of them a bit happier. If they still get penalties after that, well...

They system is more strict in case of every simple contact resulting into a penalty because of higher DR/SR rating.
Actually it is really funny.Lower level drivers gets away with the kind of penalty that higher drivers do not.And that alone is a valid point about how bad the system is.
GTS is a "FIA aproved title".Yet I cannot recall any FIA championship that will punish PRO drivers but not AM drivers for the same reason,racing in the same track.

I am SR S

Additional penalties depending the DR rank -patch notes as @kilesa4568 pointed-.So the penalty for an S/S is harder for the same situation compared to an D/S or B/B driver.
This is not acceptable in by book.The penalty system should be the same,no matter your rating.

 

[TechnoWales]

So far, 10+ races this patch zero penalties for contact. Tonight in Race C with Gr.1 in particular cars I've been punted/rear-ended, accidentally rear-ended someone, been brake checked and thrown into a wall and never received a penalty. After a guy who brake checked me (twice!) and decided to throw me into a wall when that wasn't working I got a green SR marker. So far, unless it actually is harsher the higher rank you are (I'm B/S) I'm starting to believe those complaining are either bad drivers or have poor racecraft and being exposed for it. Or I'm just lucky.

Shame I could only like this once.

 

[RaceFace85]

Now racing in Sport Mode it's all about getting no or fewer penalties penalties than the opponents. Speed is not important anymore.

 

[Mr616]

Overtaking on a race track is never save. There is allways the risk of touching the other car. You can never know what line or move the opponent will do while beeing overtaken. Also it can be that your car or the other car will get over or understeering. Also F1 drivers are touching each other while overtaking without getting a penalty. I think F1 drivers know how to drive.

Correct overtaking is never safe, but it was in GTS under the old system. To much contact, which incidentally doesn't make good viewing for an Esport.

You can't claim to have the best GTS players in the world then watch them bang and bump each other. It should be super clean and super smooth. Mistakes happen and risks are taken, but they should be a considered move and not just "shut your eyes, chuck it up the inside and hope it ends well".

F1 very very rarely touch and if they do normally ends or severely hampers their race. In GTS contact had turned into the meta.

 

[Skiddy]

Also F1 drivers are touching each other while overtaking without getting a penalty. I think F1 drivers know how to drive.

I think you expect to much from an average GTSport driver..

 

[Robben]

I know there are a number of people here who have complained about dropping DR and/or SR into lower levels due to the new penalty system. Have any of those people experienced a more lax application of penalties (as in, not receiving them at all) after they dropped? And then a more strict application after they have regained their level?

Edit: Just saw the earlier message from @mc0029:


That may have answered my question. Thanks.

I disagree with that post though... I am SR S and started last night in DR B and got promoted finally to A. Racing was the same, except for one idiot not "driving like it's real" as @Mr616 said... he drove straight to the inside of T1 on lap 1 on BB, hoping to push through using other cars as a wall

 

[_ApexPredator]

On Maggiore last night, a guy in an Audi in front of me lost control at the downhill chicane and swerved onto the grass then back on to the track just in time to hit the side of me, hard, to my surprise no penalty or orange SR for me. Went on to get a clean race bonus! I'm DR B, SR A

Lucky you. I was racing a guy in an Audi on the new Blue Moon infield track, he also went off the track, I moved over to give him some space to come back on, he taps me anyway and I get a 3 second penalty, I pull over at the end of the lap to serve it, but then I'm in the pack and vulnerable to being given more

I'll dig this out and upload it today - honestly just had to laugh otherwise I think I may have cried

 

[Mr616]

Now racing in Sport Mode it's all about getting no or fewer penalties penalties than the opponents. Speed is not importent anymore.

I'm fast, and clean so speed is important. Being reckless will see you punished. I take it you would catch a car and instantly want to overtake because you're faster? That's not racing I'm afraid.

 

[Lord Grey]

I disagree with that post though... I am SR S and started last night in DR B and got promoted finally to A. Racing was the same, except for one idiot not "driving like it's real" as @Mr616 said... he drove straight to the inside of T1 on lap 1 on BB, hoping to push through using other cars as a wall

So, penalty-wise, trading paint in DR/A seemed to be the same as in DR/B?

 

[Docker Al]

The most glaring problem is that rammers go unpunished while victims of rammers wear all the punishment. These changes make this situation worse.