Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

[kimkafwan]

But what if B/B drivers like myself are climbing the DR/SR ranks because we're doing it cleanly? I mean, should I still be serving the penalty after a griefer sideswipes me and pushes me into a wall - or should it just fall on him? I get that the algorithm should be more leveled so that the penalties are doled evenly across all classes for bad behavior. Trust me, the update isn't perfect, but it's sorted out some problems that I've routinely come across before. It's a noticeable difference.

Being "clean" is not enough at some point.

When i was <drA i played against various people from fast to slow, fair to dirty. Being fast gave me most of my victories. Being fair, sr points ...

Now i'm drS and every turn can be THE one because i can't rely on my driving skill only, being fast is not enough and being fair not always relevant. I have to take every opportunity i see even if it means a high risky move. If i don't an other player will.
So yes, contacts happened from time to time and yes, i should be penalize for it IF my opponant gets more penalty than me ie lose positions. Before the update i waited for him, now i wait to get rid of my time penalty ...
I know i can be aggressive but does it mean i'm a bad nasty dirty player? i may be from your point of view but you won't reach the last ranks only with your good will.

Moreover being high rank player doesn't mean no mistakes unless you play a train wagons simulator.

I tried the daylies with a throwaway account and i confirm it's easier for a beginner.

 

[dabz343]

Great documentation going on. It would beneficial to state one's DR/SR when providing experiences so that we may gain clarity on if/how the new algorithm behaves in various tiers.

We should encourage input from every level, and keep saving those replays.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Now i'm drS and every turn can be THE one because i can't rely on my driving skill only, being fast is not enough and being fair not always relevant. I have to take every opportunity i see even if it means a high risky move. If i don't an other player will.

This "because i can't rely on my driving skill only," may be exactly what PD is trying to remove from the DR S ranks prior to the beginning of the first official FIA season starting.

If you cannot rely on driving skill and smart decision making perhaps you are racing against competition that is actually above your level of your current skill.

Not saying this is the case as I know nothing about you but even in my lowly level DR B I see drivers that are not capable clean racing B level drivers even though they have that classification.

I have watched some of the streams of races with well known "S" top guys and there were few if any risky moves displayed in the races I watched.

Having a classification of DR S and actually being a DR S class of racer may well not be the same.

This is not aimed at anyones talent level just that there are different ways of assigning what level a driver may be classed as.

 

[ceres2000]

I tried 3 races (race A, Nurb GP, MR2) with my alternate account where I'm currently C/S.

First race started 3rd got spun out on the second turn by someone and dropped to 11th. Spent the rest of the race battling till I finished the race in 7th. Some light contact while going door to door. End of the race ended with a grey SR, 0 time penalties. Alternately barring the guy who started pole and kept his position till the end everyone else had a red SR and time penalties either served during the race or carried till the end.

Second and third race started 3rd, finished 2nd in one and 3rd in the other, with a clean race bonus in both. This despite some minor rubbing while going door to door now and then. Again the entire grid ended with some time penalties either served or carried and almost everyone had a red SR with the exception of 1-2 with Blue including me.

I'll try with my main account later (B/S) as soon as I have the time.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Penalties are harsh but I'm fine with it. Just now I got hit from behind at T1 Monza which turned into a pinball mess and 6.8 sec of time penalties. I served that since it will start adding up after 15 or 20 seconds, got hit of course as lap 1 is a stupid time to serve penalties. Dropped to the back, yet made it to 5th in an otherwise perfectly clean race, no shortcut penalties or anything. Stlll -10 SR. However the person who started this mess by not braking in time for T1 exited with a red B.

Other people I recognized from bumping into me in previous races were also leaving with red ratings, often a red A. It sucks that the victim also gets penalized, however so far I have seen the instigators come off worse, which used to be the other way around. Small price to pay imo. I'll have that 10 SR back in one race if people brake in time for T1. So far 4 out of 5 races it has been fine, while starting mid pack no less.

It is annoying that people still brake before the finish. PD needs to make it so you can't serve penalties on the first or last lap. Get a penalty last lap, too bad, it will be on your finish time.

Edit: yup, one race later 99 again. Race C still gives out SR like candy, however now it also takes it away at the same pace, good.

 

[kjeldsen]

I like working the traffic. I like pressuring people into mistakes. I like to feign passes to cause other drivers to take bad lines. This puts me in the thick of the fight, which I enjoy. This is also a riskier place to race, but the reward, both emotionally and scoring wise, is pretty good.

This system has me racing terrified of those other drivers.

Time will tell, but I can't see the benefit of an inconsistent penalty system. As drivers move up, they'll make moves that were once allowable and cause problems for themselves and others.

What you describe is a player that didn't get proper penalized for the risks he took and put on the rest of the racers under the old system. So you naturally had more room for driving like that before the punishment was real. I would imagine that you might have gotten the odd penalty but unlike now they did not matter that much, they were more like a annoyance that you had to know how to get rid off without consequence.

We had several months to learn the old system, and within the next months we will know by heart how this works and race accordingly. Maybe a few current S drivers will have to live without that rank, but i am certain that others will take their place and be the new fastest guys and girls on the block.

I am more than happy that EVERYONE has to race with much more care than before, some of the racing i have seen and that has been considered "racing" could have fatal consequences in real races, FIA would not want the official races to be examples of that.

 

[Khannie]

So now I see how hard it will be for players to get to S SR. I was bumped down to A SR today due to me taking out a guy who literally wrecked 5 guys in a 4 lap race intentionally.

Anyways, even after a “clean” race on the 4 lap Alsace, I only got 1 safety point. Another pretty clean race and I got 5. The third race I got a “red A” at the end due to trying to stave off an aggressive Brazilian. And then after that another clean race but only 1 safety point.

It looks like the new system will only reward you decent SR points if you have consecutive neutral or blue races. I’m ok with that.

 

[Ginger yido]

They seem to have messed about with the match making also. For the first time in a sports race last week I was in a race that had half the field A rating and the other half D rating.

Today when I raced every race had drivers from all categories.. seems a bit odd if people are getting different cautions that are competing in the same race.

Are they doing this to thin the field out so there is less likely to be contact with multiple cars?





My driver rating DR/A SR/S

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I raced a few times today on Nurburgring GP (DR C / SR S) I started in 5th and ended in 7th getting nudged to **** by the middle pack. Not once did I incur a penalty and I even got rammed off of the course on Turn 2 having to use the run out to maintain speed. I was not being passive, I held my line but gave people exit line and apex space as long as they asserted it.

All of the bumper car racers would eventually pull off of the race line and coast out their penalties but it still created a bunny hop sort of passing spree where I would ease off while other people full throttle dodged the penalty car causing me to drop back to 7th.

 

[bad_brain_1]

.

 

[Macboyilija]

As some of you stated a lot of “bad drivers” and “not so serious drivers” never had the intention to drive fair but only had the intention to come in the higher ranks. Thus a lot of players in S/S mode just do not belong there. PD is clearly cleaning them out. Surely PD registers all the past data and thus a lot of drivers who think they belong in the higher ranks just do not belong there and are set back in ranks clearly. Or are the drivers in SS mode suddenly all driving so good ?

I can only give my best compliments to PD for changing this to the better. I am sure in time it will be perfected even more cause I did read some stories here from people in SS who of course are respected drivers and did not make mistakes themselves. No system is flawless of course.

But I also see a lot of examples in this thread with people whining here who think they did nothing wrong but when I look the video’s I think what are you even doing there closing gaps where you dont belong or braking far to late ?? It was pure luck that you did not hit him so the penalty was just perfect. I see people defending some video’s and some people attacking those video’s. It is clear that if you are oke with that driving you can have your SB A group. So you are fast enough, but not respectfully enough.

Just to be sure: I see a big difference with those drivers and intentionally bad drivers. So dont get me wrong. We are still all fair and respectfull drivers. Yet some are a tad more agressive than others. And this needs to get filtered and I think this is what PD is doing:

1. Driving good and fair and clean with no agression (needs to remain SB S).
2. Driving good and fair but a little agression (needs to be SB A).
3. Driving good and fair but a lot more agression (needs to be SB B).
4. Driving not so fair (SB E-C).

Sure you are a good driver and do not hit someone on purpose, but you have the rush to be over-agressive. Which is not a bad thing ! However it is not how some other fair drivers would like to see. They would prefer even more fair racing. So you need not be in the same group.

Up to now all these people were in SS together or AS. Just let these fair non-agressive drivers stay in SS or AS. And let the people who want to be a little bit more agressive in SA or AA and for the real rubbing is racing the SB B. Because with regard to sportmanshift you belong there not in the same group as the over-protective group racers. This does not say what is more fun. To each his or her own fun of course.

I can understand that some agressive drivers will not like it that they are not in the highest SB rank anymore. But the ranks are there not to make just 2 groups (good and bad) but they have 6 groups so belonging in SB B and A still makes you a very fair driver and you should feel proud. Thus no reason not to feel good about it. I think this is the problem, all seeking for the top ranks misjudging the intentions of the system.

 

[Seb Weasel]

Hi. Thanks for the race report. Can you post the replay? As said before to others, not that I don't believe you!! Just want to understand.
So far (and I might be spending way too much time here but can't play the game right now so... ) after reading all the posts in this thread I have seen one clear example of undeserved / cannot be understood penalty pointed by someone else here. No evidence of variable punishment depending on rank even though I'm not sure how we will be able to see that. But please post your replay if you can! I understand this is very annoying to many of you so please share your videos.

If you are in mixed lobbies, here is the new meta.

DR A & S: Prepare to be hit by lower DR racers, with significant penalties. They will not get them.

DR D, C, B: Hit the DR A & S racers, don't worry about the consequences. They will accrue significant penalties, and yield to you to avoid more.

Just did 2 races at NurbGP. Big mistake I know, but smurf account, so whatever. My strategy - to race as cleanly as possible and NOT focus on final result. Wanted to see if I really am just a dirty, no-good, secretly inferior racing numpty. For anyone reading who has not seen any previous posts from me, context is I have 3 accounts, 2 S/S and 1 that was A/S pre-update (the one I refer to here). People who friend me in game seem to do so because I am apparently a very clean and fair racer, and like to race with that as a kind of guiding principle. Not really interested in winning at all costs, just discovered, to my surprise, that I really got into the game. I only got it for the VR aspect, which was a big disappointment, but ended up not wanting to waste the purchase. And I'm a grandad, if that helps flesh out my non-threatening self-assessment. But I'm turning into the get of my lawn kind of grandad with this new system.

But, whatever, perhaps I am really just a dirty, horrid trickster, and the system has until now disguised my true, evil nature.

So, today. Started A/A.

First race, P2, hit from behind (DR B, SR B racer) in first 30 seconds. Penalty 2 seconds. Finished race P4 as I had to clear the penalty near finish line. Net result, DR A (down 500), SR B (61 points - they changed the boundaries if you didn't know). The person who hit me was a DNF (all over the place, probably hit quite a few other players).

Remind me again how this is a good thing? Sorry, I'm a bit thick. I'm hit from behind, and because DR A I get an increased penalty, drop in DR and a SR rank demotion? This is the new system in action. It will happen to you, eventually.

Second race (now A/B), start P3 ... actually, why bother, sorry to waste peoples time, not really sure what the point of this is. Cutting to the chase, ended the race P10 after being repeatedly rammed, deliberately, while accruing even more penalties. End of experiment.

I'm now starting to realize that I'm spending more time reading about other players experiences with the new system, and wondering what my problem is, than wanting to log on and actually play the game. And coming to this message board to whine about it.

Final thought - don't make the mistake of attributing the rating tiers as attributes of persons, they are not. What we have is a tiered system that has differential rewards/punishments that serves to induce particular kinds of risk/reward strategies. For me, being binned into a particular category that enables other players to gain advantages in gameplay (or me, depending on the binning) - particularly when it is obvious - is not a sustainably 'fun' system.

 

[kimkafwan]

This "because i can't rely on my driving skill only," may be exactly what PD is trying to remove from the DR S ranks prior to the beginning of the first official FIA season starting.

If you cannot rely on driving skill and smart decision making perhaps you are racing against competition that is actually above your level of your current skill.

Not saying this is the case as I know nothing about you but even in my lowly level DR B I see drivers that are not capable clean racing B level drivers even though they have that classification.

I have watched some of the streams of races with well known "S" top guys and there were few if any risky moves displayed in the races I watched.

Having a classification of DR S and actually being a DR S class of racer may well not be the same.

This is not aimed at anyones talent level just that there are different ways of assigning what level a driver may be classed as.

What i mean is the difference between high rank players is in tenth when it can be seconds with lower rank players. So yes i'm not afraid to say that driving skill ALONE is not enough unless you are a so called "alien".

Being "clean" or "fair" are not the mains qualities imho. Being "smart" is.


Not a "clean" race but nobody got penalties this day. No weirds reactions from anybody. They had their chance, i took mine because they were drS i wouldn't have try against lower rank players.


I was "faster" and i made a mistake, he saw an opportunity and took it. A bold but well executed action. It may shows a "clean" move but i see "smart enough" players not being morons to each other.

As many as already say sr alone in not a good indicator but i tend to believe dr is and before the update races were closer with "innocents contacts" than now.
I don't care being last against tough opponants but i do care if i can't battle properly. I don't mind being bumped if i'm not penalyse but i do if i receive the same amount than the perpetrator.

 

[J91patriz]

What a joke!

I drive with no HUD so I can’t tell when I get these ridiculous penalties.

Now I am forced to turn all the things on and drive like I was in a spaceship just to see when I get penalties. 🤬

Just got kicked and can’t even know why.

 

[Macboyilija]

Read my post

 

[George Jakob]

You DR probably increased and the penalties changed.

I still think consistency is the answer. From E there should be zero tolerance just like at S. Then, players learn to avoid altercations.

No i raced a faw races after that & everything was normal i don't know what trigered the game against me

 

[kilesa4568]

What a joke!

I drive with no HUD so I can’t tell when I get these ridiculous penalties.

Now I am forced to turn all the things on and drive like I was in a spaceship just to see when I get penalties. 🤬

Just got kicked and can’t even know why.

This is irritating and a really dumb move for PD to not think of those who don't use the HUD. That needs fixing ASAP.

 

[J91patriz]

Read my post

These are the key issues for me:

The game works on the assumption of no touching whatsoever which is completely unrealistic. I am not talking about dive bombing of course or the push from behind when breaking, but even those you can barely feel in the car as I just experienced while actually giving another guy room to take the corner.
At this point then make us all ghost so no one will complain.

Second, if you make a mistake and put the wheel on the grass without gaining time you get penalty (also just experienced).

Finally to serve penalties you literally have to stop. So in the case above, not only you lose time but also serve penalty

 

[PirovacBoy]

As some of you stated a lot of “bad drivers” and “not so serious drivers” never had the intention to drive fair but only had the intention to come in the higher ranks. Thus a lot of players in S/S mode just do not belong there. PD is clearly cleaning them out. Surely PD registers all the past data and thus a lot of drivers who think they belong in the higher ranks just do not belong there and are set back in ranks clearly. Or are the drivers in SS mode suddenly all driving so good ?

I can only give my best compliments to PD for changing this to the better. I am sure in time it will be perfected even more cause I did read some stories here from people in SS who of course are respected drivers and did not make mistakes themselves. No system is flawless of course.

But I also see a lot of examples in this thread with people whining here who think they did nothing wrong but when I look the video’s I think what are you even doing there closing gaps where you dont belong or braking far to late ?? It was pure luck that you did not hit him so the penalty was just perfect. I see people defending some video’s and some people attacking those video’s. It is clear that if you are oke with that driving you can have your SB A group. So you are fast enough, but not respectfully enough.

Just to be sure: I see a big difference with those drivers and intentionally bad drivers. So dont get me wrong. We are still all fair and respectfull drivers. Yet some are a tad more agressive than others. And this needs to get filtered and I think this is what PD is doing:

1. Driving good and fair and clean with no agression (needs to remain SB S).
2. Driving good and fair but a little agression (needs to be SB A).
3. Driving good and fair but a lot more agression (needs to be SB B).
4. Driving not so fair (SB E-C).

Sure you are a good driver and do not hit someone on purpose, but you have the rush to be over-agressive. Which is not a bad thing ! However it is not how some other fair drivers would like to see. They would prefer even more fair racing. So you need not be in the same group.

Up to now all these people were in SS together or AS. Just let these fair non-agressive drivers stay in SS or AS. And let the people who want to be a little bit more agressive in SA or AA and for the real rubbing is racing the SB B. Because with regard to sportmanshift you belong there not in the same group as the over-protective group racers. This does not say what is more fun. To each his or her own fun of course.

I can understand that some agressive drivers will not like it that they are not in the highest SB rank anymore. But the ranks are there not to make just 2 groups (good and bad) but they have 6 groups so belonging in SB B and A still makes you a very fair driver and you should feel proud. Thus no reason not to feel good about it. I think this is the problem, all seeking for the top ranks misjudging the intentions of the system.

Very good post and a very good explanation. I really appreciate what you wrote. I also feel that the Dr and Sr Ranks are absolutely misunderstood. I couldn’t have explained it better.

 

[Macboyilija]

The game works on the assumption of no touching whatsoever which is completely unrealistic.

There is nothing wrong with a little touching. Why would it be wrong ? Just dont do it in SB S but in SB A. That was the intention of my post. And stop feeling being in SB A is a bad thing.

 

[xxxman1]

This post was originally post in another thread. But I don’t know how to copy the link. Just copy the content here.

Raced in race c
5th start
Got 2 pushes at the same corner
1st resulted in 2 sec pen (1:27) while the other one 4 sec (4:15)
I just wonder is it the responsibility of the follower to avoid the collision.
I didn’t remove the lap 2 & 3 to show the way I behaved though it still need a lot of improvements.
I quit the race and got DR -2000 and SR -8. No more race in this track for me.
View attachment 718806

Welcome any suggestion from you guys to improve my ability in avoiding collision. Thx

 

[Seb Weasel]

This is one of my main issues with the game actually. Lack of HUD customization, and not being able to cycle MoTeC displays. One of my favorite features in Project Cars.

This is irritating and a really dumb move for PD to not think of those who don't use the HUD. That needs fixing ASAP.

 

[J91patriz]

There is nothing wrong with a little touching. Why would it be wrong ? Just dont do it in SB S but in SB A. That was the intention of my post. And stop feeling being in SB A is a bad thing.

Some touching, unintentional, is part of any class. I don’t understand why it’s fine in A and not in S. Racing remains racing in any class that’s what I’m trying to get through here.

Besides that I see penalties attributes to track limits are a joke.

People are currently cruising on the nurb whenever they get trapped.

 

[Macboyilija]

If racing in all classes would be the same, why then create a system with different classes ?

You are just proving my point tbh.

 

[IAMDOODLEBUG]

Being "clean" is not enough at some point.

When i was <drA i played against various people from fast to slow, fair to dirty. Being fast gave me most of my victories. Being fair, sr points ...

Now i'm drS and every turn can be THE one because i can't rely on my driving skill only, being fast is not enough and being fair not always relevant. I have to take every opportunity i see even if it means a high risky move. If i don't an other player will.
So yes, contacts happened from time to time and yes, i should be penalize for it IF my opponant gets more penalty than me ie lose positions. Before the update i waited for him, now i wait to get rid of my time penalty ...
I know i can be aggressive but does it mean i'm a bad nasty dirty player? i may be from your point of view but you won't reach the last ranks only with your good will.

Moreover being high rank player doesn't mean no mistakes unless you play a train wagons simulator.

I tried the daylies with a throwaway account and i confirm it's easier for a beginner.

There is a lot wrong with this post. It's a bad attitude to have and is the reason why avoidable accidents happen. Plain and simple don't overtake if it is high risk. If you are taking that much of a risk then you are not fast enough in the first place. Even against good defensive driving you can use intelligence, just drop back a tenth or so and get the faster line through the corner to take them on the way to the next. I'm DR S and I didn't get there through barging past people, I got there through being consistent and picking my opportunities to overtake with the lowest risk, respecting everybody else on the track.

 

[J91patriz]

If racing in all classes would be the same, why then create a system with different classes ?

You are just proving my point tbh.

What I meant is that once you reach S you do not magically start to fly over your opponents so no touching involved.

You still have to try to find space and in some track it’s not that easy and might end up in some touching. This is what shouldn’t be punished.

But if you say not touching in S then I would have to wait for the guy in front of me to let me pass or wait for a mistake in most cases.

 

[kilesa4568]

Just had a thought. It does happen. Sometimes...

Ignoring PD's mistake on measuring contact too finely, what if the two way penalty is actually intentional? In every video I've seen, the person who causes the contact gets a slightly bigger penalty than the person they make contact with. The person who caused it knows their mistake has cost both of them dearly and if they're a relatively a normal person, ie, feels guilty, they may start thinking about what they're doing a lot more. If they don't, they're likely PD's target for an SR group drop.

I'm probably thinking way too far outside the box but if I hit someone in a race accidentally, and I'm sure we've all done that at some point, I'm ultra careful from there on as I don't want it to happen again.

 

[Seb Weasel]

Thanks for the vid. First hit from behind you don't get a penalty. 1st penalty, I agree harsh since not your fault at all. Could it be that the game was expecting you to get into that turn faster? Or as kilesa4568 just suggested maybe both you the victim and the other guy get penalized, like in Project Cars. Yours was 2s his 3.
Second one wow, what a murderer this guy in the Audi!! Totally not your fault, maybe again the game penalized you for slow corner entry but I agree that you had pretty much no choice as you had an incoming dive bomb from a mile away launching on the inside... You got 4s he got 5. Maybe you could have avoided it by letting him go by and crash on his own. He was 100% at fault but could have been the difference between an idiot crashing alone, and a two car crash.
My two cent for that one and many incidents in general is try to cover the inside as much as you can, although in that case it would have resulted in a massive accident no doubt since the other guy was super dirty.
That helps though, useful video.

This post was originally post in another thread. But I don’t know how to copy the link. Just copy the content here.

Raced in race c
5th start
Got 2 pushes at the same corner
1st resulted in 2 sec pen while the other one 4 sec
I just wonder is it the responsibility of the follower to avoid the collision.
I didn’t remove the lap 2 & 3 to show the way I behaved though it still need a lot of improvements.
I quit the race and got DR -2000 and SR -8. No more race in this track for me.
View attachment 718806

Welcome any suggestion from you guys to improve my ability in avoiding collision. Thx

 

[ROCKET JOE]

... But if you say not touching in S then I would have to wait for the guy in front of me to let me pass or wait for a mistake in most cases.

Exactly that !

 

[xxxman1]

Thanks for the vid. First hit from behind you don't get a penalty. 1st penalty, I agree harsh since not your fault at all. Could it be that the game was expecting you to get into that turn faster? Or as kilesa4568 just suggested maybe both you the victim and the other guy get penalized, like in Project Cars. Yours was 2s his 3.
Second one wow, what a murderer this guy in the Audi!! Totally not your fault, maybe again the game penalized you for slow corner entry but I agree that you had pretty much no choice as you had an incoming dive bomb from a mile away launching on the inside... You got 4s he got 5.
My two cent for that one and many incidents in general is try to cover the inside as much as you can, although in that case it would have resulted in a massive accident no doubt since the other guy was super dirty.
That helps though, useful video.

IMO, it should introduce some missions in the game to teach racer where are the right location to overtake and to follow front runner within the limit lol. Or like what I did brake earlier as usual.

Watch EPL today. No more GTS. Spoil my holiday mood.