Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

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@Macboyilija

You made fair points about how the system works but imo you are not 100% when you talk about SR classes and how this connects to aggressive racing.I mean there are some super aggressive people that are at the same time super clean.Or there are some people who are the non-aggressive but are not in any way "clean" drivers.
SR is (or should be) about clean racing,nothing more,nothing less.

@xxxman1
Thank you mate for providing another video that actually prove my points:you can race clean and fair and yet penalished when others do a "stupid" move.

@kilesa4568

I agree with you that two way penalties can actually be intentionally.They kinda copy the iRacing system (that also does the same -2 cars make contact,99% of the time both get insident points-) so they -propably- also copy that one.
Problem is that since the GTS SR rating system and penalty system is "simple",pretty much this -two way penalties- is wrong.
You cannot punish players with TIME penalties (that they have to serve during the race,propably creating even more problems) because another made a mistake or intentionally hit them.
IMO the choice of everyone having access to anything from day one,in an e-sport title- is wrong.iRacing is not perfect but you cannot drive anything you want in "competitive" races before you prove you actually can -by gaining licenses,on track while racing against humans-.
In GTS you can do that.So there are people that have huge experience in "sim racing" racing against people that have zero idea of what they are doing.Add to that people that are intentionally dirty and we have this kind of "quality" in races.
 
Having had several clean but dull races at Maggiore the other night, I thought I'd give today's GR4 race a go. The first and last time I race that track. Chaos from the first incident (guy in front hit the wall when I was on his tail, no time to react) right up until the point I gave up and dropped to last just to get some space to run some clean laps.

I'll pick and choose the races I compete in very carefully from now on, and if I have many more like the one I just had, I shan't bother until this is patched again.

For the record, DR:A/SR:S. Lost 1600 DR points and 12 SR points in one race. This is not fun.
 
Long final straight at the Nordschleife. BMW in front slower out of the final RH. I'm gaining, get his draft before the tourist centre I've caught up.
He swerves constantly left to right to left to right to left to right.

There is *nothing* I can do about this except back off and let his cheating gain him an advantage. He is effectively unpassable on a 3 km long straight where I have massive speed advantage. I did try and pass, by just holding the RH line - he made contact, I got -SR and 4 sec penalty. This was my ONLY -SR of the entire race. I finished Red SR.

That's quite a *racing* game they've created here.

A-S
 
kevlar_hybrid
Long final straight at the Nordschleife. BMW in front slower out of the final RH. I'm gaining, get his draft before the tourist centre I've caught up.
He swerves constantly left to right to left to right to left to right.

There is *nothing* I can do about this except back off and let his cheating gain him an advantage. He is effectively unpassable on a 3 km long straight where I have massive speed advantage. I did try and pass, by just holding the RH line - he made contact, I got -SR and 4 sec penalty. This was my ONLY -SR of the entire race. I finished Red SR.

That's quite a *racing* game they've created here.

A-S
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There is a "report" fuction now,so the only thing you can do is actually report that guy.
 
I mention it because now the penalties are so sensitive, this will be the next exploit that the "dirty S" drivers will use. Same as the 50/50 lean off before.
If we touch then penalties are given, sooooo I know you know that and all I need to do is swerve around. The good drivers will back off.
 
Looks like we all want more info about racing etiquette. Personally, but also from many videos I have seen online, many people are suffering from "corner claiming disputes". I'm not even gonna talk about weaving, ramming, shoving and all of what we all consider dirty.
I think "corner claiming right assessment" is the most technical aspect of overtaking. Let's see if we agree on those scenarios, images from this very good article:
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/

A and B are fairly clear. C is the big one.

Scenario A. Attacking and defending cars are side by side or attacking car is ahead. Defending car cannot claim the apex.
f1_apex_a.png


Scenario B. Attacking car is behind or nose not even mid level to defending car. Attacking car cannot claim the apex.
f1_apex_b.png


Now for the big one.
Scenario C. When we exclude A and B, we are more or less side by side or lets say more than 50% side to side. In those cases, both drivers must leave room throughout the corner, including beyond the apex. I find that this is the cause for 90% of the times where people are being pushed wide.
As attacking car on the inside, it is only fair to take the apex if it you are not going to cut across the defending car's exit line. You need to be really skilled to know ahead of time if your attacking line is going to bring you across the defending car's exit line ahead of time. If in doubt, or if you know you are going to cut across, it is your responsibility to correct your course and / or lift so there is room for a 2 car wide exit.
At the same time, when defending, you cannot launch into the corner squeezing the attacking car in, so at that point you know you will either have to take the long way around, or sacrifice entry speed to fight back with more exit speed ("cut back").
THAT, for me, is what racing is all about. And because it is such a fine line, it is both exhilarating and very, very difficult to anticipate and judge when incidents happen.
DISCUSS! :D
f1_apex_c.png
 
Fair point. Actually even if we don't account for penalties, this is the case for most annoying moments as the car ahead suffering from dive bombing. That's why I usually try to defend on the inside so the dive bomber has no choice but to go wide... Or hit you in some cases of dirty dive bombers! But that's just ramming.

kevlar_hybrid
Never mind the complexity of scenario C. Scenario B is the one that happens 99% of the time and the game punishes both of us.
Click to expand...
 
Defence on the inside? Ok. He taps me in the arse as my line is now obviously slower - both are penalised.

There is *no* concept of attacker/defender in this system.
 
Agreed. We have seen a few examples of that, but it looks like most of us are not penalized for being rear ended.
I try to take the inside line very, very early prior to corner entry so if the guy behind me wants to draft effectively he will naturally take the outside... But it's definitely not 100% success rate!

kevlar_hybrid
Defence on the inside? Ok. He taps me in the arse as my line is now obviously slower - both are penalised.

There is *no* concept of attacker/defender in this system.
Click to expand...
 
S/S. Had max DR (75K), first race right after patch release at the new Blue Moon. I qualified first, guy shoots first corner on inside and leans on me. 3 second penalty. Ok. Same guy crashes in rear end at hairpin. 10 second penalty. Ok. After i’ve slowed down after being thrown off course, I realize at this moment things are about to go through the roof here after then losing 3K DR points. Done a lot of sport races last two days at Yamagiwa, Willow, and Monza. And seems there haven’t been much of higher S DR drivers, all the races have almost been only 1 or 2 S/S and rest A/S to even D/B. It’s almost as if higher people do not want to risk rating points. I have not seen many higher ranked players, therefore haven’t been able to increase DR in sport races past 73K other than FIA
 
JulesDennis
IMO the choice of everyone having access to anything from day one,in an e-sport title- is wrong.iRacing is not perfect but you cannot drive anything you want in "competitive" races before you prove you actually can -by gaining licenses,on track while racing against humans-.
Click to expand...

I've never looked deeply at iRacing but isn't there a financial penalty for any damage you cause? I believe it also has its own judicial system for working out who was at fault after the fact? Yes, it's a game but it's also an apple that tastes like an orange in this case.

GTS doesn't take itself as seriously as that, hence the taglines '7 to 77' and 'everyone can drive' and it supplies ranks for every ability. It's also an esport title if you're good enough to be in esport. For everyone else, it's just casual, but competitive racing.

You can't be prejudicial on a pay once game by deciding which class of driver can run which car. Novices (we were all one of those once) would drop it like it's hot before they'd given it a fair shot. It's borderline elitist.
 
J91patriz
I am not sure what the meaning was.

But what’s the fun in overtaking when they just let you the door wide open?

Watch less F1 and more Motogp is my suggestion here :cheers:
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You're right of course, there's no fun in getting free passes.
All I wanted to say was that sometimes in racing you just CAN NOT overtake ( on a narrow track with evenly matched cars and drivers for example ). So what you do is try to apply pressure on the guy ahead and hope for his mistake ... and stay behind ( whether you like it or not ) if he doesn't make one 👍.

PS
No idea about racing bikes, it's irrelevant though 'cos we're racing cars.
 
anthaliscious
Done a lot of sport races last two days at Yamagiwa, Willow, and Monza. And seems there haven’t been much of higher S DR drivers, all the races have almost been only 1 or 2 S/S and rest A/S to even D/B. It’s almost as if higher people do not want to risk rating points. I have not seen many higher ranked players, therefore haven’t been able to increase DR in sport races past 73K other than FIA
Click to expand...

Even today with currently the 2nd fastest time at the Nurburgring 24hr I probably won't race as I hear people get red SR even with 1 hit. With 99/99 SR needed for the top 24 race later there's nothing to gain and turn 1 is especially bad for bumps. Only one player in the top 10 in the European Nations Cup raced on Tokyo last night as the safest way to keep S SR is to just not race at all.
 
dabz343
Great documentation going on. It would beneficial to state one's DR/SR when providing experiences so that we may gain clarity on if/how the new algorithm behaves in various tiers.

We should encourage input from every level, and keep saving those replays.
Click to expand...

I think people should be putting up their Kudos stats personally. I want to see SR history of people pre patch to see how their driving was before this droppped.

Wishful thinking I know.
 
J91patriz
I am not sure what the meaning was.

But what’s the fun in overtaking when they just let you the door wide open?

Watch less F1 and more Motogp is my suggestion here :cheers:
Click to expand...

You do realise in DR:S the times and pace will be so close, overtaking will be less? If people are more equal, overtaking becomes almost a surgical manoeuvre.
 
Interesting read this. I'm DR B SR S and have done 3 races since the latest patch, All clean with no penalties. It needs to be given more time and just like in real racing if someone else takes you out there is nothing you can do. At least in this game you serve a penalty, they could turn damage on so both cars are out of the race...
 
kilesa4568
I've never looked deeply at iRacing but isn't there a financial penalty for any damage you cause? I believe it also has its own judicial system for working out who was at fault after the fact? Yes, it's a game but it's also an apple that tastes like an orange in this case.
Click to expand...

In iRacing there is no "currency system" in game -that same way AC or Pcars or Raceroom-.So you dont actually pay anything in-game (well you pay for sub in order to be part of the platform,if this what you mean,also for tracks/cars -DLC-).
There is an no-fault system in iracing.Contact give incident points to both drivers.But they also have damage on,slow downs (in case of cutting track -example-) and stop/go penalties for various violations (passing under a yellow flag-example-).The total of insident point will determent the SR -/+ in the end of the race.
In GTS you get a time penalty,no matter the reason:contact,cutting track or pass under yellow (plus - SR points).And you have to serve it on track,during racing.
In theory GTS,pretty much did copy iRacing system.But in reality,there is a big difference how these two work.

GTS doesn't take itself as seriously as that, hence the taglines '7 to 77' and 'everyone can drive' and it supplies ranks for every ability. It's also an esport title if you're good enough to be in esport. For everyone else, it's just casual, but competitive racing.
Click to expand...

Thats the same for iRacing too.But the system they have,actually works (at least most of the time).Competitive races for everyone and you move up the ladder if you have the skills to do so.
The "elite" players -PRO/WC-,will race in top championships for real money:
-World Championship Grand Prix Series : a total of $16,000
-Same for the NASCAR Series World Championship
-The Blancpain GT Series a total cash prize pool of over $13,000
(some examples).
Its not about "how serious" you are,its about how good a platform is in order to give the most in terms of clean/fair/competitive and fun racing -for any user-.
Not everyone in iRacing are 100% "serious" like the PRO/WC but they have a chance to enjoy sim racing (after you get out from the lowest license -Rookie- that is ;) ).

You can't be prejudicial on a pay once game by deciding which class of driver can run which car. Novices (we were all one of those once) would drop it like it's hot before they'd given it a fair shot. It's borderline elitist.
Click to expand...

Novices do not have the racecraft or experience or pace to race against others (with more experience) in an e-sport competitive title.Thats the truth and has nothing to do with being "elitist".
There are various ways to do "esport".GTS tried to copy the iRacing way.Pcars has another -different- one.ACC,we'll have to wait and see (examples).
But we can judge if/how good those systems work.
If I am a rookie,I first need to learn to walk before running IMO.
 
Macboyilija
As some of you stated a lot of “bad drivers” and “not so serious drivers” never had the intention to drive fair but only had the intention to come in the higher ranks. Thus a lot of players in S/S mode just do not belong there. PD is clearly cleaning them out. Surely PD registers all the past data and thus a lot of drivers who think they belong in the higher ranks just do not belong there and are set back in ranks clearly. Or are the drivers in SS mode suddenly all driving so good ?

I can only give my best compliments to PD for changing this to the better. I am sure in time it will be perfected even more cause I did read some stories here from people in SS who of course are respected drivers and did not make mistakes themselves. No system is flawless of course.

But I also see a lot of examples in this thread with people whining here who think they did nothing wrong but when I look the video’s I think what are you even doing there closing gaps where you dont belong or braking far to late ?? It was pure luck that you did not hit him so the penalty was just perfect. I see people defending some video’s and some people attacking those video’s. It is clear that if you are oke with that driving you can have your SB A group. So you are fast enough, but not respectfully enough.

Just to be sure: I see a big difference with those drivers and intentionally bad drivers. So dont get me wrong. We are still all fair and respectfull drivers. Yet some are a tad more agressive than others. And this needs to get filtered and I think this is what PD is doing:

1. Driving good and fair and clean with no agression (needs to remain SB S).
2. Driving good and fair but a little agression (needs to be SB A).
3. Driving good and fair but a lot more agression (needs to be SB B).
4. Driving not so fair (SB E-C).

Sure you are a good driver and do not hit someone on purpose, but you have the rush to be over-agressive. Which is not a bad thing ! However it is not how some other fair drivers would like to see. They would prefer even more fair racing. So you need not be in the same group.

Up to now all these people were in SS together or AS. Just let these fair non-agressive drivers stay in SS or AS. And let the people who want to be a little bit more agressive in SA or AA and for the real rubbing is racing the SB B. Because with regard to sportmanshift you belong there not in the same group as the over-protective group racers. This does not say what is more fun. To each his or her own fun of course.

I can understand that some agressive drivers will not like it that they are not in the highest SB rank anymore. But the ranks are there not to make just 2 groups (good and bad) but they have 6 groups so belonging in SB B and A still makes you a very fair driver and you should feel proud. Thus no reason not to feel good about it. I think this is the problem, all seeking for the top ranks misjudging the intentions of the system.
Click to expand...

I think it will take some time before it's clear whether any changes to SR calc will actually do the kind of grading you assume there, but I hope so. It could be a problem though if it goes up and down too fast - when it changes faster, fewer races are included in what is effectively a running average, so someone could end up oscillating between two ranks.

I notice you don't really comment on the time penalties at all, just SR, even though getting time penalties for minor contact is what a lot of the 'whining' is about. I'm certainly no 'whiner' for saying SR changes = good, time penalties for minor contact = bad, it's just my considered opinion that PD needs to get the basics (SR calc) right first and see how that works before throwing the kitchen sink at it.
 
As a high S/S driver (normally), I'm not enjoying the new system at all. In a lot of ways, it kills the art of racing.
Just raced at Blue Moon Infield B (Race C), SR rating went from about 92 S to 70 A.
In that race, a guy in front slammed on at the first corner, tapped him, 2 second penalty.
Exiting the same corner, he locks up, spins off, 5 second penalty for somehow ignoring yellow flag.
A few laps later, a guy infront hits inside barrier on 90 degree corner, hit him, 3 second penalty.

The race before at Brands, I went from 99 to 92, because I was cleanly defending a guy behind me, one of the fastest on the game. So you're telling me that I must let past a faster driver when we're fighting for position? No, that's not racing. It's like being a lap behind. A/S and B/S have no chance of competing with S/S drivers

So in my opinion, the new system kills the fun and art of defending.
Therefore, the game will just lose a lot of regular drivers because they will get tired of innocent penalties. Plus, not all drivers have time to set a blistering hot lap before they race.

My solution: Revert back to old system, or if they keep the new system, do not have daily races, just change the races every 2/3 days. Then, everyone has more time to avoid the unnecessary penalties
 
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Mr616
I think people should be putting up their Kudos stats personally. I want to see SR history of people pre patch to see how their driving was before this droppped.

Wishful thinking I know.
Click to expand...

Well you can search and find many people's, but some folks here don't use the same nick or haven't updated their PSN ID, or maybe you just get one with hardly any data so presumably they have other account(s). Still, funny how some claiming S/S status got there through the DR glitch when SR falls a long way :lol: :banghead:

Mine: http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=1373472 :D
 
adstomko
As a high S/S driver (normally), I'm not enjoying the new system at all. In a lot of ways, it kills the art of racing.
Just raced at Blue Moon Infield B (Race C), SR rating went from about 92 S to 70 A.
In that race, a guy in front slammed on at the first corner, tapped him, 2 second penalty.
Exiting the same corner, he locks up, spins off, 5 second penalty for somehow ignoring yellow flag.
A few laps later, a guy infront hits inside barrier on 90 degree corner, hit him, 3 second penalty.

The race before at Brands, I went from 99 to 92, because I was cleanly defending a guy behind me, one of the fastest on the game. So you're telling me that I must let past a faster driver when we're fighting for position? No, that's not racing. It's like being a lap behind. A/S and B/S have no chance of competing with S/S drivers

So in my opinion, the new system kills the fun and art of defending.
Therefore, the game will just lose a lot of regular drivers because they will get tired of innocent penalties. Plus, not all drivers have time to set a blistering hot lap before they race.

My solution: Revert back to old system, or if they keep the new system, do not have daily races, just change the races every 2/3 days. Then, everyone has more time to avoid the unnecessary penalties
Click to expand...

All they need to do is change the algorithm for taps at A/S level and it's a big improvement over the previous lax penalty system. My last 2 FIA races have been great but only because I started top 3 and was racing against guys I know and trust (all fellow Brits as well). Start in the midfield with people you don't race often and it's Penalty Simulator 2018.
 
Epic race of the day:

You make a mistake and you go slightly off track, losing time and you’re served at least 2 sec penalty

You serve penalty, and thus need to completely stop, guy behind you rejoins and barely touches. Result: another 5 sec penalty and he gets penalty

Chaos ensues, people need to stop to serve penalty and a small group is formed. I resume the race and in order to avoid people serving penalty crashing against those at full speed I am forced on the grass and hitting the barrier losing huge time. Consequence: 11 sec penalty

Well done PD
 

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