Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

  • Thread starter GTFraker
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I actually don’t like the new rules. Over the last two days I’ve gone from SR S down to SR B. 3 examples.

1) start of Monza race, Vulcans. Slipstream guy in front I moved across to overtake, about a second later he moves across to block - I go off on the main straight As he turned into me, I get a 2 second penalty.

2) blue moon layout, first corner . Gap to car behind was around 1.6 seconds, no where near for an overtake , slung it up the inside, used me as his brake I get punted into the wall, 1.5sec penalty to me. Awesome.

3) Monza again first chicane, I get punted by some dick straight across the first chicane trying to to the usual overtake 10cars from the back, 5 second penalty to me .

All of these ended up in SR drops for me

The penalty system is worse, at best it gives both people penalties but that doesn’t help those who don’t ram it’s just aiding those that do, as they know if the other person doesn’t avoid and just let them through they will most likely get a penalty too.

Frustrating.
 
Hate when that happens

But you should have been more cautious and not got wheels onto the grass

Yeah, do that in real time. The guy in front twitches left, I see the stationary car and twitch right. then all hell breaks loose, my punishment for avoiding a stationary vehicle wasn't enough as off track and into the barrier. No, add an extra 10 sec and -SR.
 
Honestly I like this new system...
Dirty drivers get what they deserve, specially those dirty fast S/S or A/S drivers...
of corse there are the few that get penalized for minor contact or even for being hit by others... but if those small penalties are fair (IMO) as if it was a real race your car would have some sort of damage and lose pace, too many and it will possibly brake...

I posted this before in the “Daily Race” tread about the race C I did this morning in Mount Panorama.

I finished in first... started second, passed first on the last corner before the race started (the new start Mode is ridiculous) was actually first until pit.
Came out of the pit second, made a mistake on the top of the hill and let the 3rd player pass not to hit him while I was slower... I know him from previous races, not the cleanest high ranking driver...
This was lap 6, I kept a 1.5 to 2.0 second gap between him, first was 1 second ahead...
8th lap I was .5 seconds from him and he was right on top of first place... I kept the gap knowing that for sure he was playing his dirty game and both of them will have 1 or 2 seconds penalty...
In the big downhill straight he is in 1st...
Comes last turn, second place let’s me pass, he goes to the left trying to take some penalties, I crossed the line in first and he had +31 seconds penalties!!
Starts to blame slower drivers in the race chat....

This is the thing I am liking on the new penalty system....
Drivers that didn’t had a fair game will get the deserved penalties but will blame the others....
 
Wow

Something has changed for me, even after the update. The other day it didnt seem as bad. At the rate below, I'll be zero. Oh, and my DR has been going up as I've moved forward a lot with many people spinning out etc

Bathhurst no red dot, went down 11 SR!!

Next race, red dot, i had two 1 sec penalties, down 19 points!!

From 98 to 61 SR in the space of 4 races
Got any replays? It seems weird you drop so fast in SR. I get an occasional penalty or SR drop, but get it back up just by driving cleanly.
 
Dirty drivers DON'T get what they deserve by any means. I'm in the Blue M6 ahead.



I picked up a 2sec penalty for the first rear 3/4 "tap" and another 2 sec for the second one. Both punished with -SR.
He didn't seem to get any penalty at all, gained track position and went on to finish ahead of me.
 
My thinking at the time was, if you are in a mixed race and you are ranked S/S, the risk of you going DOWN rankings is much, much more significant than the reward of going UP rankings. You get sweet FA for a win in those situations, but if something puts you down the order, lower ranked players will get a big chunk of your pooled DR points. So perhaps that is why he was prepared to trade SR to ensure, at all costs, a guy like me did not finish ahead of him.

This is a well known 'bug' or 'side effect' with ELO type ranking systems. So, not like it is unique to GTS.

So, I agree with you. I just don't think the current system helps, it just flips the risk/reward device around.

I never thought of it like that so I appreciate the info.👍

Painful to know for someone who tries to avoid all contact but now that I do, forewarned is forearmed. I'll have to be more passive and get out of the way a lot earlier.

Just in case @Tassie_tiger doesn't see your report, if you make one, this is MastrGT's profile who reported the recent grip bug: http://community.eu.playstation.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/325006
 
Got any replays? It seems weird you drop so fast in SR. I get an occasional penalty or SR drop, but get it back up just by driving cleanly.
Nope, not sure how to do replays.

I couldn’t believed it, fully expected to go up, and had dropped from A to B in one race and had no dot etc
 
My thinking at the time was, if you are in a mixed race and you are ranked S/S, the risk of you going DOWN rankings is much, much more significant than the reward of going UP rankings. You get sweet FA for a win in those situations, but if something puts you down the order, lower ranked players will get a big chunk of your pooled DR points. So perhaps that is why he was prepared to trade SR to ensure, at all costs, a guy like me did not finish ahead of him.

This is a well known 'bug' or 'side effect' with ELO type ranking systems. So, not like it is unique to GTS.

So, I agree with you. I just don't think the current system helps, it just flips the risk/reward device around.

Well that's true, but no excuse really. Dropping a place or two would hurt, but only to the tune of about 160 DR points per place. I don't know that I'd call it a bug / side effect because if a lower ranked driver can beat the S then they deserve to win the points!

OTOH, if the S spins (or gets spun) and falls to last place, that could be more like -3000 DR, which would take a lot of races to recover from. It's hard to say that the others have raced better and deserve their points gain in that case. And it's probably much more likely to happen through a disconnect than from a mistake :(

But overall, what I see fairly consistently is that Ss are faster than As, As are faster than Bs, and so on, with only a little overlap, so it does seem to be working OK :)
 
Yeah cos we got to SS by being bad drivers and having poor racecraft..
Z28 is poor too is he?

For people who are not DRS and think the update is ok or do not see a problem this is what we DR S drivers have to put up with.



So Z28 complained about not being able to divebomb hellzfire from 2 car lengths back at turn 4. Snows pressure did not give Z28 a devine right to hellzfires position. Z28 then complains about being divebombed at turn 4 (it was a bad move on z28 but again this is top 24 and moves like that should not happen), but one Z28 himself was weighing up on hellzfire.

Then I see Snow scrub a penalty on the apex of turn 5? Really? One of the best drivers on the game, couldn't wait another half second till he was clear of the corner?

Bottom line is, penalties maybe over harsh, but driving standards need to improve.
 
I can confirm this night and day difference. After having both my DR and SR plummet severely after just a couple of races I’ve now done a couple more as B/C and just in my last race now (Nürburgring 24h) there was an identical situation to one earlier in the evening where I got brake checked and couldn’t brake or avoid the car ahead of me and bumped in to it. As S/S that gave me either two or even more seconds (I think it was four if the hit was a bit harder).

As B/C however, I got nothing for the same bump, a very hard bump actually. In fact the following checkpoint actually indicated a green SR.
To continue with this, here’s a video from a race last night. It’s a replay so you’ll have to take my word for it as you can’t see any penalties or SR info. As I said in my previous post at the time of this race I was B/C.

Situation I (0.00 - 2.10): I got shunted off after a divebomb and was having none of that and given how terribly the evening had developed I was done just taking and decided to get revenge by pushing him off the track. Why not get some more information, right? Result? No penalty and a green SR indicator at the following checkpoint.

Situation II (2.10 - 3.20): For some inexplicable reason this guy slams his foot on the brake causing me to hit him hard from behind, sending him flying into the barrier. Result? No penalty and a green SR indicator at the following checkpoint.

Situation III (3.20 - 4.01): This guy also jumps on the brake a tad early causing me to hit him from behind, similar to situation II, though not with the same grave consequences. Result? Five second penalty.

 
I cant stop but think PD is correcting all that went wrong with people climbing to SB S so easy....

I think you could well be right; it's the only explanation for making them so harsh. It's very frustrating for the genuinely clean drivers who do deserve to be up there to be getting penalised for honest racing (which is very much the case), but maybe it'll all work out.

A week or so of really harsh penalties and I suppose it will all come out in the wash - the cream will still rise to the top
 
Well that's true, but no excuse really. Dropping a place or two would hurt, but only to the tune of about 160 DR points per place. I don't know that I'd call it a bug / side effect because if a lower ranked driver can beat the S then they deserve to win the points!

OTOH, if the S spins (or gets spun) and falls to last place, that could be more like -3000 DR, which would take a lot of races to recover from. It's hard to say that the others have raced better and deserve their points gain in that case. And it's probably much more likely to happen through a disconnect than from a mistake :(

But overall, what I see fairly consistently is that Ss are faster than As, As are faster than Bs, and so on, with only a little overlap, so it does seem to be working OK :)

But bear in mind some of those DR:S are there with poor or sporadic SR and have bullied their way to that rating. They now cannot retain that rating with the current penalties.

One of the biggest complaints a few weeks ago? Being hit from behind and pushed wide (by people who think they are fast because of a rating and feel every slight open door is an invitation to overtake). No patience or weighing up who is in front. Just a catch and pass mentality.
 
I think you could well be right; it's the only explanation for making them so harsh. It's very frustrating for the genuinely clean drivers who do deserve to be up there to be getting penalised for honest racing (which is very much the case), but maybe it'll all work out.

A week or so of really harsh penalties and I suppose it will all come out in the wash - the cream will still rise to the top

You'd hope so but the DR 70k reset undermines it. If you somehow go from SR 99/99 to SR B in one race you're most likely a dirty driver, yet a few clean Daily Race C's and they have an abnormally high DR and are put into top lobbies where they are totally out of their depth, spoiling it for others.
 
True :( that 70k DR reset makes no sense, but I think they do still drop rank despite the spike in score :confused:

They seem to drop to DR A but the underlying number remains, once the SR gets back to S they get DR S back as well with around 70,000 depending on the results of those lower races. 70,000 puts you in the superstars race and it was clear 2-3 were only in because of it
 
Well I had a nightmare on nurb24hr yesterday in DR:A. So expecting contact, I played on my DR:B sub account at bathurst today, sods law it was clean and fun with no contact at all for me. Although I did start 2nd and had a mini battle with 3rd and 4th, I ended 3rd. I should have used a car that's quick on the straights.

What I guess is happening is DR:A and DR:S drivers are not playing or have been smacked in to lower ranks, if they have any desire for the F1 trophies they can use this time wisely and pick those trophies up from the lower rank guys.

What bothers me is that a dirty git ANNOying guy who smashed me and others into next week yesterday, seems to be progressing up the DR ranks nicely.

My aim now is to get my sub account into DR:A and meet him in a race :mad:
 
See, what gets my goat is when we focus on the gameplay aspects, and try to pretend that the rankings/points don't matter. They do, because that is how each racing interaction is set up. I don't mean we should focus on the ranks/points as if they tell us much about the individual players, but rather when there appears to be a problem with how the ranks/points are setting up unsatisfying contests.
Like I have said previously ranking to me is of much less importance of good, fun, close racing.

When the lobby screen pops up yes I see the DR spread but what I am much more focused on is the lap times as compared to my own from the racers several spots in front of me and several spots behind me.

Also what cars they are driving as I have spent time trying to learn where individual cars have their strong point and where they are weak.

It helps when devising a strategy of where to possibly overtake or where you need to defend against certain cars overall.

I also look at the connection bars of the racers around me as a racer showing low bars could be a lag problem knowing where they are actually at on the track due to a saw blade pattern on the screen.

Those will generally be the racers I find myself racing at least at the start and many times throughout the race.

Once the green flag drops on the track what a racers DR rating is not of importance and I am more focused on racing whatever cars are in front or behind me at the time regardless.

Well that's true, but no excuse really. Dropping a place or two would hurt, but only to the tune of about 160 DR points per place. I don't know that I'd call it a bug / side effect because if a lower ranked driver can beat the S then they deserve to win the points!

OTOH, if the S spins (or gets spun) and falls to last place, that could be more like -3000 DR, which would take a lot of races to recover from. It's hard to say that the others have raced better and deserve their points gain in that case. And it's probably much more likely to happen through a disconnect than from a mistake :(

I can understand where a racer whom the rankings are more important may be concerned over losing points, but regardless once on the track how many points you may gain or lose does not lessen the responsibility that everyone on that track is entitled to the space they occupy period.

Points or no points, DR or SR ranking of no importance it is still up to the overtaking driver to cleanly pass the driver in front of them.

It makes no difference if the driver you are trying to overtake is a DR D and you are a DR S and you may be capable of lapping on a clean track 7 seconds a lap quicker as long as he is not illegally blocking it is your responsibility to cleanly pass him.

That does not mean that the slower driver cannot legally use defensive driving lines forcing the overtaking driver to pass on a less than optimum line and no it is not the responsibility for the slower driver to move off of the racing line to let such driver go pass, this is a race not a track day.

He is still entitled to his racing line on the track.

Before this latest penalty update it was not uncommon for a faster driver to spin, fall to the rear and bulldoze their way back towards the front scrubbing penalties with no loss along the way.

After all they were faster, they were higher ranked and they as a result felt entitled to not need to wait for a proper passing opportunity as it was no actual penalty in the race results for not waiting.

Now it is a penalty, now the bulldozing cost lost time and positions and yes all passes or moves now could come at a greater cost if not well set up.

And you wonder why those that drive a more passive style of race like the new system? Finally clean and consistent driving across a race distance may be rewarded where in the past the only style of racing that was rewarded was hot lapping basically.

Now if the would turn on crash damage and have bouncing over curbings damaging suspensions and tires, off track damaging bodies and splitters and over revving engines causing blown power plants then we are racing with more real world consequences.

Think you have to watch how you drive now, that brings the racing to an actual "sim" level experience. What we have had up until now is a game where only hot lapping was rewarded. That is not real world racing.

Perhaps PD should institute the stiffer penalties across the board and actually reward clean contact free racing across the board from top to bottom. I would be okay with that but I like the new system that makes bulldozer through style of racing to be a position loser rather than a position gainer proposition.
 
...Now if the would turn on crash damage and have bouncing over curbings damaging suspensions and tires, off track damaging bodies and splitters and over revving engines causing blown power plants then we are racing with more real world consequences...
^Ahmen, I would love that, I doubt we would ever get it though.
 
Ok, I get it now...
The following videos were captured this afternoon, Daily C. I was A/S initially. I never left SR S, ranging from 99 to high 80s. I usually started mid grid with a 2:05.3.
It was an absolute crash fest. A complete horror. Once I got demoted back to B (where I probably belong, at least around Mt Panorama!), the crash fest continued. I got rammed every single race multiple times, but I did see the penalties stop when rear ended.
I wanted to see examples, boy did I get what I asked for! Penalty videos are all from my short lived A/S stint.

After many races today, I confirm that sportsmanship was some of the worst I've seen. Ever. Each time, I could see the "murderers" starting from SR S and get demoted, sometimes straight to C!! So I guess we are currently purging the system ourselves, at great DR cost. I don't care too much about that as I mostly want clean racing, but I can see why people prefer to stay away if they want to preserve their DR.
However... Is this going to be enough? Isn't it easy to go back to SR S, and as someone said before, can we expect dirty drivers to be "happy Ds"? Before, I didn't know. You guys showed me all week, now I've seen it first hand and I'm worried.

Penalty 1:


Penalty 2:


And my favorite:


Also, check out this nice lag :D
 
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