Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

[Outspacer]

As I have said my experience is at the level of DR B so I cannot comment on the penalty difference for A and S rankings.

In the races I have run since the update I have not changed my racing style at all and for me it has been positive as fewer dive bombs or being punted and I have always tried to set up my passes to be non contact to the best of my ability.

Hopefully the stiffer penalties are currently being used to purge the upper SR rankings of driving styles that have gamed the system and created the excessive contact racing that had become the norm across the board.

After the purge if they change the criteria to what constitutes admittance and retaining membership in the higher SR ranks then the current inconvenience caused by these changes will be a worthwhile investment for all.

Once the ranks are secured then the penalties can be eased to an extent but the criteria still tightened up enough that only very occasional contact would result in not losing the higher SR ranking and regaining SR points would be much harder than losing them to prevent gaming for position of the new system by being choosy in when to initiate contact which was easily accomplished under the old system.

A purge of upper SR rankings will only be acheived by having greater SR loss for hits (than pre-update). The time penalties cannot do that.

Actually that could be one way to help regulate contact for gain as any gain of position being a result of contact as part of the overtake would automatically result in a penalty.

With the person being passed not getting a penalty? Then try passing a dirty player and he'll bump you.

I think any contact should result in some -SR, regardless of passing. On the flip side, +SR for a clean sector with nobody near should be tiny, but if racing closely or passing someone cleanly it should be a bigger +SR. Something along those lines would help stop people gaming the SR. And, since everybody's closest together in the first sector, maybe that has the biggest payout - hopefully avoiding T1 chaos.

I do not care what classes I race with as long as the racing is not of a nascar rubbing is racing mentality.

Incidental contact happens at times in motorsports but the Sport races had become ridiculous with the bulldozing, punting and ramming to gain position and with no actual penalty in the standings to those causing the havoc.

This has quite simply not been my experience. I generally have the advantage of starting in the top few places, but even starting mid-pack it hasn't been the nightmare you describe. In some races, sure, there would be 1 or 2 causing an inordinate amount of damage, or passing too aggressively for my liking, but in no way would I call it endemic - most people were racing cleanly. Even in some of the streams I've watched of lower SR ranks it hasn't been that bad, and a lot of contact was simply down to lack of skill.

Just hoping for good racing, we had pretty decent racing around game launch but it was steady turning into GTA rather than competitive motorsport road racing over the last month and a half.

We both want the same good quality of racing, so there isn't much to say on that

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I never thought of it like that so I appreciate the info.👍

Painful to know for someone who tries to avoid all contact but now that I do, forewarned is forearmed. I'll have to be more passive and get out of the way a lot earlier.

Just in case @Tassie_tiger doesn't see your report, if you make one, this is MastrGT's profile who reported the recent grip bug: http://community.eu.playstation.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/325006

I guess I can put forward concerns regarding the latest penalty system.
But to be honest, it isn't really a bug as such, it's just that some aren't happy with the latest iteration.
It could well be that it was a deliberate design choice, and the system is working as PD intended.

Sorry if I missed it, but where is this "report" that you mentioned?
Anyway, I could probably highlight this thread as a source for the complaints and get the ball rolling that way.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Well, it looks like I picked a really bad time to finally make the plunge into GT Sport.

I suppose I'll find out soon enough what my opinion is about the new penalty system. If I can play to the level I know I'm capable of, then I should be good enough to be approaching the top. My concern is that all my prior Gran Turismo experiences has made me the poster driver for being on the receiving end of taps at corner entry. I'll cross my fingers that it won't penalize me for those type of incidents.

I can only speak as a former steward for league races and someone that has watched a few races both under the old and new system but it looks to me that this is a case of someone making a fix that swings too far in the other direction. Personally, I'm more a fan of incremental changes to ensure that one is heading in the right direction.

I happened to catch that exact race on someone's stream. I sensed a ton of frustration from multiple drivers and the racing quality was nowhere as good as a few races I saw under the old system. The worst part was watching multiple drivers forced to all but stop in the middle of an active racetrack to serve penalties only to cause more problems, a pattern I've seen repeat on other videos. I cannot comprehend how this side effect is acceptable for a game that has an agreement with the FIA.

 

[LLOYDZELITE69]

If anyone’s interested in watching a decent race between IOF_Racing17 and myself. I believe he takes an unnecessarily, horrificly long penalty on lap 10 and ends up spoiling a good race and ruins his race.

 

[Lion-Face]

I am not lumping anyone anywhere, if a person is deserving of the ranking they have whether it be DR or SR their racing ability will allow them to be at their correct rankings.

The only people I can see having concerns are those that have gamed the system using overly aggressive racing tactics to advance positions while easily scrubbing off the penalties accrued under the old system to increase their DR ranking while not hurting their SR ranking and now those same aggressive tactics are not a feasible method under the new system because now accruing penalties actually cost time and finish positions.

You will find that many of those that have always tried to race cleanly will be more supportive of the new system as now those racers that banged and punted cars on their way to the front in the past are actually not being rewarded for their bulldozer driving style any longer.

So no one is being lumped together, each driver knows where their driving style places them whether they admit it or not.

Your not lumping anyone anywhere, yet you state that the only people you can see having concerns are those that have gamed the system. I have a problem with the current system and I have not gamed the system. I am surprised that I am S rank, and actually am ranked quite highly. We all started in the same place, I came through the ranks slowly, often aiming for top 10, then top 5 finishes as I improved. There were a handful of drivers that would push their way past. But they haven't been able to stick near the top and they are names I rarely see anymore.

Whenever I was in an incident, I would always look at myself and try to learn and figure out how I could have done better. Many of the lower ranked drivers I see blaming other players dive bombing them are as much to blame themselves as they are the other car for the results they get.

I have stated I feel the current difference in the penalties for the upper classes is to actually separate out the true "S" rated racers who have the skillset to race in close proximity with virtually no contact at best to absolute minimum contact at worst.

This is where the problem lies. I would accept that no problem at all and wouldn't have a problem with the system if this was the case. There have been times in the past where contact has had a car off the track and no penalty applied. Now that is rectified and drivers are being punished for this. The problem I have is 'minimum contact at worst' is being penalised and I think that is a step too far.

 

[kevlar_hybrid]

Isn't that because with good throttle modulation you haven't caused the TC to kick in, so of course it would be the same as it would be with it off

No, not really my point. Normally the TC Risk <-> Reward ramp looks like this (hell, any assistance in any game actually)

Low TC < ------------------------- > High TC
Difficult < ------------------------- >Easy
Fast < ------------------------- >Slow
Risky < ------------------------- >Safe

Same with ABS etc, it should be harder and more risky to turn it off but your braking distances should be shorter if you can do it. TC should be much safer, remove the risk of spin etc but generally much slower acceleration and gear change times the more of it you have on, no reward for removing all that risk.

You want a system where the best drivers turn it all off because it's quicker. We don't have that. You can run it effectively "OFF" at TC 2 but the risk for leaning too hard on the throttle is then mitigated by the TC 'catching' you.

 

[kilesa4568]

I guess I can put forward concerns regarding the latest penalty system.
But to be honest, it isn't really a bug as such, it's just that some aren't happy with the latest iteration.
It could well be that it was a deliberate design choice, and the system is working as PD intended.

Sorry if I missed it, but where is this "report" that you mentioned?
Anyway, I could probably highlight this thread as a source for the complaints and get the ball rolling that way.

Thanks for looking mate.👍

I'll try and put it in a nutshell. Pretty difficult for long winded people like me.

I agree with you about it not being a bug and even about it being a design choice. I like the no contact approach but I'm not in the top rank. I can see how as a lower rank driver such as myself could take advantage of it by giving them penalties and get away with it (too lenient for us) while being rewarded with DR points I shouldn't get through a less than clean move. Another scenario is a top rank driver using a smurf account and deliberately targeting another top drivers rank for easier races on their main account. Too many ways to exploit the new system.

They've cleaned up a lot of top drivers through fear of those penalties but PD seem to have forgotten that matching is often based on SR in the dailies. The top drivers are often seeing mixed ability grids based on the far too easy to achieve SR. Add an incident in that race and a top driver could plummet through the ranks through no real fault of their own. Too many lower ranks can get away with murder, either intentionally or unintentionally with the new system.

Looking at a lot of videos put up by the top drivers in DRA and S races, which all need gathering up if they want PD to look at them are showing some unjustified penalties for the driver in front. They've killed a lot of the close, generally clean racing.

I think I've covered everything...

To the top drivers complaining in this thread, make it easy on Tassie_tiger and PD by gathering up as many videos for evidence as you can in your own thread. PD will look at this 28 page thread but it'll take forever to glean the relevant info from it. Ask a mod if they'll keep an eye on it to keep it from turning as long winded as this one.

Edit: I forgot about people needing to scrub off penalties and causing chaos through choosing bad places to do it. For the strong, ever increasing penalties, I don't see how they can expect people to run them up even further while looking for a safe place to do it.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I raced on both Monza and Bathurst today and wow it's unbalanced.

On Monza I continually got penalties for getting rammed from behind. In the end I found out it was better to take a short cut at T1 to avoid getting hit from behind. Sometimes that didn't even result in a time penalty, if it did, at least it was small enough to keep on racing and still get a blue rating at the end. Get hit from behind and I've gotten up to 9 sec penalty, serve in the first lap, which is suicide, exit with 7 to 18 SR loss depending on secondary hits. I quit Monza with 52 SR left, down from 99.

Bathurst, started as SR.B, was back to 99 SR in 4 races. I only got 2 penalties in 6 races. One time I slightly messed up the pit entry. On exit it awarded me a 7 sec penalty, lost 2 places. Second time, I pass on the straight, the car behind me turned in a millisecond to soon and our bumpers touch, nobody goes off road, no speed lost, 2 sec penalty. I took it to the finish, raced to increase the gap behind me to over 2 seconds, and didn't bother to push further to over take the car in front, pointless.

Racing is improved at DR.A level, however DR.B to DR.D is still the same which is what I kept getting matched with due to low SR.

I suggest 3 improvements.

1. Penalties should only depend on SR level, not DR. Having mixed rooms with drivers that race with different rules does not make sense.
2. No penalty serving in the first and last lap, too dangerous, rather don't serve it at all, sort it out at the finish or in the pit. (There is a repair time section in the pit, why not a penalty time)
3. Forgive button. Flash the option on screen to press triangle or whatever to forgive the penalty. If both players opt to do so the penalty is nullified for both players, otherwise it stands.

 

[kilesa4568]

3. Forgive button. Flash the option on screen to press triangle or whatever to forgive the penalty. If both players opt to do so the penalty is nullified for both players, otherwise it stands.

I like that.👍

 

[kjeldsen]

I guess I can put forward concerns regarding the latest penalty system.
But to be honest, it isn't really a bug as such, it's just that some aren't happy with the latest iteration.
It could well be that it was a deliberate design choice, and the system is working as PD intended.

Sorry if I missed it, but where is this "report" that you mentioned?
Anyway, I could probably highlight this thread as a source for the complaints and get the ball rolling that way.

I would say the issue is not the penalty, or that high ranked drivers are getting hit harder than lower ranked. The issue is WHY these changes were made and what the idea behind them are and most importantly what is the goal. That would have made it easier for everyone especially a more detailed explanation of how it works.

As i see it, S rating before 1.13 was something different than it is now. How you could drive before 1.13 was different than it is now. For example this dude:



he is the only dude i have actually watched race for longer than 5 minutes, i like his attitude and he seems positive. But in that video he comes across as if he is entitled to more than others. You do not bump or grind other cars and expect to get away with it after 1.13 and you take the penalty asap not at the apex of a fast corner..

On the other side, i have been a D driver for most of the time, i simply do not have the time to race enough each day to get up there and i tend to race as clean as possible, SR rating have been S all the way. After the patch i have 3 clean races in a row not because i changed how i drive, but because everyone around me did.. the game feels less like a game now and more like racing.

 

[kilesa4568]

^^All S/S drivers. The main problem is mixed grids with all DR's and SRS.

S/S needed toughening up but not at the expense of close racing. If there's no effect (like the @Lion-Face video) on the car receiving the nudge, there shouldn't be a penalty for either party.

 

[kevlar_hybrid]

I like that.👍

There's something to be said for some sort of social function "like" that's for sure.
After a couple of corners, or a lap at the most I can tell if someone is a clean racer or a dirty racer. Often if I have a whole race of it I'll friend them in the system. They yield position if unfairly taken, they can go side by side through the esses with me, they can shrug off a nudge from behind that didn't adversely affect them, they will say sorry in the post race chat, or mutually thank each other for clean racing etc.

If there was a way to mark these people as "trusted" in the post game screen I think that would mean more than an abusable and flakey SR system.

 

[bad_brain_1]

.

 

[kilesa4568]

Forget worrying about your main account till you see if the new system changes. If it doesn't, cross that bridge when you come to it. Treat your smurf accounts as disposable and have some fun. You've got to keep practising so do it without the worry.

It actually sounds like you've already made up your mind.

 

[bmxmitch]

I simply cannot understand why faster drivers should get a stricter penalty system? That makes no sense at all!
So we all have different rules now?
The slow drivers (D-E) can do whatever they want!? The average one gets a few little penalties here and there, but isn't as free as a slow one?
And the fastest guys get penalties for every little contact? What the hell!?
Seriously, this isn't how sports work. You dont get special treatment just because you're slower or worse.

With this system in place, this game will never be a competitive "official" FIA racing game.
And I was still hoping we finally would see the FIA races leave the test phase (which already is way too long now) and offer a real racing experience. Well, all hope is gone now...

 

[Rangeraus]

I can suggest a few things.

Suggestion 1
No penalties for minor incidental contact that causes no damage to either vehicle. Penalties for this are not awarded in some of the most harshly policed racing series in the world.

Suggestion 2
Driver cannot scrub off a penalty by slowing down on track - They can only serve a penalty by:
a) Being stationary in the pits for the duration of the penalty time after fuel/tyres are changed in a pit stop (this is what F1 uses and works well), or;
b) Taking a time penalty at the end of the race.

Suggestion 3
Penalties are applied equally to everyone in a Sport mode race. No exceptions.

Suggestion 4
GT Sport needs a proper content update to their 'Racing Etiquette' and 'Driving School' section to properly teach or explain racing etiquette. At the moment the Missing Challenges encourage winning at all cost as the #1 aim.

As for the Driving Etiquette section... one of the drivers they highlighted as a benchmark of respect and fair racing also deliberately collided into his rival to win a world championship. Or are they glossing over that one?

 

[Lion-Face]

OK I have a confession to make. I said I was done with sport mode, but guys ... I couldn't help myself OK!!!

It is just so laughably bad I had to give it another shot.

2 races on smurf account, Europe.
1 x Daily C (A/B) (P4 finished P8, only A in lobby, was last place with 28 sec penalties by L2. Absolute waste of time for everyone. Shameful).
1 x Daily B (B/C) (P1 finished P1, 2 second penalty for punting guy off Conrod L1. And I did it deliberately to regain P1. This is SR C/D level right?).

Check this out:

Today -> 50079 B 20 C
Yesterday -> 35596 A 64 B

System working as intended.

So, in 2 races, went from A/B to B/C - driver point reset to upper bound (50K), just need to somehow enter some races without taking any penalties whatsoever, while getting middling results (to keep the DR points up), get the SR points up, will be DR S, SR S.

What.A.Joke.

Now, I need to decide, am I really taking a break from SportMode, or do I wanna see how far I can push this smurf account. Thoughts?

I would like to see replays of those races. I have continued to race daily, on the dailies, and after learning what not to do, im not having any major trouble. I dont like it, but im not having the trouble being expressed here, and would like to see the replays.

 

[kilesa4568]

Suggestion 2

On suggestion 2, I don't see why they changed it from GT6's instant slow down with ghosting. Maybe improve it with a countdown timer over the car so people don't gamble on driving through them. Full ghost for the duration and possibly flashing for the last second or two of the penalty so people can take avoiding action.

(I think the pits are closed for race A & B.)

 

[Rangeraus]

On suggestion 2, I don't see why they changed it from GT6's instant slow down with ghosting.

...

(I think the pits are closed for race A & B.)

Then the driver should have the penalty added to their race time. Assuming of course the penalty is deserved.

I can't wait to see what the results screen of Northern Isle or Blue Moon Bay (oval) will look like for DR A/S under this current system of driving like your car is Nitro.

 

[bad_brain_1]

.

 

[_ApexPredator]

You want a system where the best drivers turn it all off because it's quicker. We don't have that. You can run it effectively "OFF" at TC 2.

We do have that :S Running TC 2 is absolutely slower than running with it off - if you attempt to apply more throttle than the tyres can handle the TC bogs and you lose drive.

You're going to have to post some comparisons of you driving the same corner, one mashing the throttle with TC 2 and another where you modulate your input with it off - I'm 99% certain that you'd find that the exit speed is lower in the first case.

 

[Lost Sheltie]

When it comes to serving the penalties I think we need to have an easier way of serving them. At the moment we get people lifting off the accelerator at weird points and that just causes havoc.

I was thinking we could use the hazard lights as a switch. Press the button and you car instantly goes into a speed limited mode and ghosts your car.

Then you wouldn't be causing any problems for following cars, and you could serve the penalties easily. Rather than slamming on the brakes and nothing happening for a couple of seconds, as sometimes happens now.

 

[JacksHerer]

I get it when people are saying little nudges don't affect the car, but little nudges do affect some players. Before the update if I was held up by traffic and some dude behind kept giving me 'little nudges' I would assume it's just a matter of time before he gives me a big nudge.

Also, his little nudges with aids on were little for him with no effect, but for me with no aids it would affect my corner exit because I was steadying my car from what felt like could happen if I didn't react to the nudge.

 

[Lion-Face]

Just had this race at Interlagos in Gr1 highlighting the problem with no penalties for DrB drivers.

Watch 4th place, this driver had decent pace, but was dirty with overtakes. No penalty applied to him. I got lucky in my incident with him but MaxMach had to slow down due to being pushed off. 6th place also running DrB pushed me wide to get ahead on lap 1 with no consquence.

This doesn't teach DrB drivers anything and make it very frustrating to drive against.

 

[kevlar_hybrid]

We do have that :S Running TC 2 is absolutely slower than running with it off - if you attempt to apply more throttle than the tyres can handle the TC bogs and you lose drive.

You're going to have to post some comparisons of you driving the same corner, one mashing the throttle with TC 2 and another where you modulate your input with it off - I'm 99% certain that you'd find that the exit speed is lower in the first case.

You're missing the point, again.

One "mashing" the throttle with TC2 will be slower than modulated TC OFF. My point is that a well modulated throttle with TC 2 is THE SAME SPEED as well modulated with TC OFF. It shouldn't be. Why, because with TC OFF if I get it wrong I spin or slide (risk), with TC 2 if I get it wrong it gets caught. The "risk" is mitigated with TC 2 whilst allowing all the reward of a well modulated throttle. It's about where the traction threshold is set for each TC settings. With it off you should be able to get closer to the traction threshold, with it on TC 2 you should NOT be able to get close to the threshold, at present you can on both TC2 and TC OFF.

 

[JacksHerer]

@Lion-Face what a nightmare, people in DR:B and below will have no idea what affect they are having on higher ranked guys unless they visit a website.
Maybe some of the do know and are exploiting the situation.

If I was being matched with DR:B guys to fill up a room, I would use a sub account until the next patch.

 

[bad_brain_1]

.

 

[kevlar_hybrid]

Just had this race at Interlagos in Gr1 highlighting the problem with no penalties for DrB drivers.

Watch 4th place, this driver had decent pace, but was dirty with overtakes. No penalty applied to him. I got lucky in my incident with him but MaxMach had to slow down due to being pushed off. 6th place also running DrB pushed me wide to get ahead on lap 1 with no consquence.

This doesn't teach DrB drivers anything and make it very frustrating to drive against.

Also doesn't help when they mismatch actual similar race pace LMP1 cars with fantasy stupid crazy high top speed unrealistic physics buzzing fly cars. You're asking for crappy racing doing that in terms of closing speeds etc

 

[JacksHerer]

Mixed lobbies should use the penalty system of the lowest ranked DR in the room, anything else would be exploited.

 

[JulesDennis]

Just had this race at Interlagos in Gr1 highlighting the problem with no penalties for DrB drivers.

Watch 4th place, this driver had decent pace, but was dirty with overtakes. No penalty applied to him. I got lucky in my incident with him but MaxMach had to slow down due to being pushed off. 6th place also running DrB pushed me wide to get ahead on lap 1 with no consquence.

This doesn't teach DrB drivers anything and make it very frustrating to drive against.

@Lion-Face what a nightmare, people in DR:B and below will have no idea what affect they are having on higher ranked guys unless they visit a website.
Maybe some of the do know and are exploiting the situation.

If I was being matched with DR:B guys to fill up a room, I would use a sub account until the next patch.

I think I did point out 2 days ago,the problems that the "new" system will create when mixed rating players face each other in races.
That video is pretty much prove those points.Like I said,they did not change how the system works,they just made it more strict depending on ratings.Higher the rating the more strict it gets.That is not a solution (in my book).
Looks like a DR B player can "push" up gaining positions against a DR A/S who fear any kind of contact.In other words a DR B can ram someone in front of him and get away with it while a DR A will get punished if another ram him from behind: PD logic in an "e-sport competitive" title.