- 658
- Canada
Yup I was placed 3rd and still was repeatedly rammed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules
- Thread starter GTFraker
- 1,445 comments
- 82,188 views
- 1,324
- Toronto
The problem will be greatly reduced, especially at higher levels where there aren't so many errors made during races.
If every driver is within a few tenths of the best qualifying time they can put up, then there won't be as much passing - and less chaos caused. Let's face it, most of the accidents we see are happening in the first 1/4 of the race when drivers are still relatively grouped up.
If I qualify first by a decent margin, I will very likely not ever be challenged in my race, conversely if I spend 5 minutes qualifying and only manage a lap that is probably a full 1.5 seconds slower than what I can realistically do, not only will I likely end up driving around lower DR drivers, but I'll be pressuring the driver in front of me at nearly every corner, which will slow us both down, creating a bottleneck of drivers and thus creating accidents.
I'm not trying to argue that the penalty system is perfect, because it is far from perfect - I'm just saying that OP's problem wouldn't have happened if he actually spent some time getting a good qualifying lap as he likely wouldn't have been held up by P1 on the downhill, which would mean they wouldn't have been bottlenecked and the Porsche wouldn't have rear ended him.
dabz343
(Banned)
- 950
- United States
- dabz343
This should streamline things.
Many drivers made an effort to illustrate improvements and these should be included in the dialogue with PD.
Emerging Themes/Opportunities
- Contact initiation/fault is inconsistent at best - only drivers at fault need to be penalized. We understand there may not be a perfect scenario, but currently it lacks finesse and plagued with inconsistencies.
- Contact at upper levels is too strict (S/S and A/S) - harsh penalties will reduce incidents, but may severely undercut the enjoyment of competitive racing.
- Tiered penalty system (if indeed there is one between A/S and above vs B/S and below) - may introduce an unnecessary variable that could result in gaming the system especially within mixed level races by lower ranks. Is it more sensible to have one consistent system for penalty detection, but lessen the impact for lower ranks?
- Matchmaking needs attention - this may be a highly underestimated opportunity to improve the quality of races within any penalty system.
- Bad behavior like weaving, blocking, brake checking, etc - reporting players is a great feature, but this needs immediate attention as dirty drivers should receive their karma during the race.
- Good behavior is underappreciated - rewarding good racecraft may be another effective form of encouraging desired behaviors, especially during a race.
- Serving penalties is causing havoc - lack of protocol on how to serve penalties is causing drivers to take evasive maneuvers, triggering more incidents/penalties.
- HUD improvements - elevating the visibility around the driver will certainly improve awareness and decision-making during close racing regardless of which game view is used.
- Driver aggression and racecraft - perhaps the most important aspect for me personally. How do we get to a level where the majority of drivers comprehend what is expected on the limit? We have the Driving School, Circuit Experience, do we need Sportsmanship Training?
- Increasing participation in Sport Mode - actions to elevate the enjoyment of drivers with varying degrees of skill/equipment/time/etc. is not working, resulting in 90+% opting to stay away from Sport Mode. How does PD overcome this hurdle?
- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
A player may be extremely clean.. according to his own "parameters" but still as he does´nt know the correct way to do it ("Racing Etiquette" ...we may call it this way) in truth he may be doing a lot of things that the others .. that know more about it... consider to be .. wrong... So I don´t consider that it has to do with being dirty or not. but being correct... which is something very different.. sometimes!!!
- 1,875
- United States
What about having instead of levels where people feel that it is an advancement we have levels that are based on a persons desired racing experience.
Level F1- Basically no contact or mistakes allowed without penalties being applied.
Level GT- Minor contact that does not upset a cars pace or line allowed any heavier contact penalties applied.
Level Nascar- Rubbing is racing and bumping or contacting cars to gain an advantage is allowed. Off track excursions not gaining in a time or position advantage will not be penalized, intentional punting a car off track will be penalized.
Level Mad Max- Everything goes, no penalties other than driving the wrong direction on the track, a true free for all!
Then everyone can find a spot that offers the exact racing experience they desire out of the game!
- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
I've no need to look at it. I've been there, done that, and got the T-shirt long ago.
Why would you think I need to brush up on my etiquette anyway? I'm one of the least aggressive drivers out there and very rarely cause contact.
I think it's a case of everyone being pretty clued up on etiquette but some just choose to ignore it in the heat of the moment.
Right. Back to the penalties.
I was just correcting your suggestion.... and that instead or seeing films and races and stuff.. sometimes reading and taking a peek at the drawn examples could help more!! My suggestion was not that you needed to read the text.. but those ho don´t truly know what they are talking about and where they are failing (doing it wrong) should read about it!!
Why do most of you guys here, when some one else intervention is done, on your text, just because he may say something different or .. something else start immediately thinking that they are under attack. or that it comes from someone that does,nt agree with with you.. as if you are aunder attack and imediatly get your missiles ready for retaliation???
There´s already one Trump on Earth... but I start thinking that his method or behavior is "spreading" around like a plague..
- 120
- Afghanistan
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- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
I din´t LIKE your post!!! I LOVED it!!!And I´m all against of the strickness of penalizations rizing for the "upper classes"... it should´nt be different for any player in any condition... For all equal laws and equal weight... regardless of condition...
About reporting dirty players... .must of us just want to play and have fun!! And have so little time to do it! (Me for example!!) Guys, that arrive home very late from their work and after all that we have to do at home, it remains so little time to do: 1st a decent classification turn.. (sometimes I loose more time on it than doing the races actually...) and play... that afterwards we don´t want to loose a lot of our so sparse time, on doing the "dirty job" (reports of bad conduit).... So these reports must have a way of doing them, very simple and very fast.. and they will only have some result like that.. or else.. .
most of the players will not perform them. ...either for not knowing how... either for the reason I´ve just explained before... or.. both!!!! - 14
- Ct
I took the weekend to get a feel for the update in Sport mode penalties as the last I posted in this thread the update released while I was at work. Anyhow, I typically get to spend about 3 hours a night racing so perhaps I don't get the exposure most get but I do race the daily races and the FiA Manufacturer race every day.
Overall my experience was actually very good. I don't particularly think the penalties issued to me were unjust or excessive. I'm no alien, but not a total slouch either and I was issued time for reasons I could easily determine right in the race. Perhaps you could say I was lucky to have clean racers around me as contact wasn't a big issue. At one point I certainly deserved a large penalty for a braking point error, however before the system would normally issue one I had already recovered and was out of the racing line to allow the other effected driver to regain their position (there were no other drivers near enough for them to lose additional places). I am typically a very clean driver aside from that. My experience racing Bathurst was very good also. For the penalties I did need to serve, I got out of the racing line, went a bit below race pace when safe and the penalties dried up without ruining my races. You are still able to selectively "scrub" them, however it is a lot more difficult, and for me, I wound up wasting much more time trying to scrub rather than serving the penalty ASAP.
For reference, I am currently ranked B/S and have been matching up with A/S and B/S drivers for some time.
Overall my experience was actually very good. I don't particularly think the penalties issued to me were unjust or excessive. I'm no alien, but not a total slouch either and I was issued time for reasons I could easily determine right in the race. Perhaps you could say I was lucky to have clean racers around me as contact wasn't a big issue. At one point I certainly deserved a large penalty for a braking point error, however before the system would normally issue one I had already recovered and was out of the racing line to allow the other effected driver to regain their position (there were no other drivers near enough for them to lose additional places). I am typically a very clean driver aside from that. My experience racing Bathurst was very good also. For the penalties I did need to serve, I got out of the racing line, went a bit below race pace when safe and the penalties dried up without ruining my races. You are still able to selectively "scrub" them, however it is a lot more difficult, and for me, I wound up wasting much more time trying to scrub rather than serving the penalty ASAP.
For reference, I am currently ranked B/S and have been matching up with A/S and B/S drivers for some time.
- 2,677
- UK
- Outspacer
Much as I appreciate your efforts to pull together that list impartially, without bias or judgement, I fear that it still looks like a summary of what people want rather than objective concerns.
Points 4, 5, 8 and 10 are probably not related directly enough to the SR and penalty changes (10 may be worsened as a by-product).
1. Contact detection seems OK, I think lag makes it seem random. Fault determination frankly sucks, but I think PD know that already.
2. & 3. are effectively two aspects of the same point, no?
[5. That requires a human and therefore won't happen in dailies. I guess it works by 'too many reports per race entered' resulting in action. Anyway, putting it as 'need' is assuming to speak collectively for all of us, and it doesn't.]
6. plus: Yet +SR for a clean sector with nobody around is too easy to game.
7. A few less penalties would mean much less havoc! Feel this is biased towards keeping the 2 sec penalties and polishing the turd.
9. Actually this is irrelevant, if players generally get an SR rank appropriate for their behaviour. So I'd replace this point with something along the lines of improving the basic SR calc & balance, perhaps merging it with #6.
Also, one result of the 1.13 changes is that some players are now yoyo-ing wildly up and down in SR. That probably means that SR is changing too fast (in both directions), and makes it less useful.
Anyway... who gets to talk to PD and what is their bias?! This isn't a bug report where we identify what's wrong and collectively all want to say the same thing to PD. There is a real breadth of opinion on these matters which is difficult to summarise. No, they need to spend the time read this thread and others - they are the ones getting paid for this - and then try to design a solid working system. Reacting to user feedback is part of what got us to this situation.
So I don't think that is the right way forward. PD will have noticed that a lot of people aren't happy with the penalties, and will react to that as they see fit.
If we were to pick one aspect to encourage PD to focus on, I think further improving SR calcs and trying to make them a little more stable would be something that most people here could agree on. Agree more than on any other aspect, at least
It has a pure objective basis, seeing as SR 99 didn't mean as much as it should've done pre-update, and now SR yoyos too much post-update.
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- 655
- United States
- FluffaRaptor
How about some attempted sentence structure, man? Stream of conscience is exhausting to read.About reporting dirty players... .must of us just want to play and have fun!! And have so little time to do it! (Me for example!!) Guys, that arrive home very late from their work and after all that we have to do at home, it remains so little time to do: 1st a decent classification turn.. (sometimes I loose more time on it than doing the races actually...) and play... that afterwards we don´t want to loose a lot of our so sparse time, on doing the "dirty job" (reports of bad conduit).... So these reports must have a way of doing them, very simple and very fast.. and they will only have some result like that.. or else.. .
- 1,324
- Toronto
Mate, I've been thinking how to reply to your post without coming across like a complete prat, but where I live it is 2am - so please take that into consideration!
You are basically blaming the victim.
So, let me get this right. What you are essentially saying is, racing incidents are the result of not posting a good qual? If you don't post a good qual, well, bad stuff is probably going to happen, and it is your fault for not getting a good qual?
I just don't even... can I ask, did you read my original posts about that particular incident? And I want to stress that focusing too much on that one incident misses the broader narrative it is presented as supporting.
Again, sorry for the tone of this, but your reasoning seems entirely backwards to me
EDIT Just to give you an additional sense of why I'm confused by your post - this is from an earlier post by me on the issues. Occurred to me that perhaps, given the thread is pretty long, I should not expect you to have read my previous posts - sorry:
My first race on smurf account, post-patch, which I think I detailed here, first turn of the race I was hit from behind (in P2) - and ended up with more than 10 seconds of penalty. In addition to SR & DR downs. That resulted in me finishing last, as I gained additional penalties in the race from being further hit from behind.
Next race, level now A/A, pole - no issues. Why? Because I was 5+ seconds ahead of P2 on the first lap having run like a whipped dog to escape the rampaging horde.
Then, made the mistake of thinking, ah well, bit of bad luck eh. The next, I think it was 5 maybe 6 races - all from pole, I was hit from behind at T1, T2 or T3 and my races were effectively over at that point. In addition, my ranking dropped to B/D. I am not exaggerating - every race the same thing.
I want to make a few things clear.
1. I'm not advocating that the new system is good, I think it's a big step in the right direction, but they have gone overboard with how harsh the penalties are being given out.
2. I'm trying to help you get good races in between now and whenever they fix the system.
My comments were simply trying to help you, I've had good races since the patch, mostly because when I enter a race - I come in with a good qualifying time - as most of my races are usually mixed skill levels.
I've been avoiding chaotic tracks, and short races and anything GR.1. I'm not saying this is ideal, I'm just saying that if the goal is to get good races in with the current system - that's how I've been doing it.
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- 2,677
- UK
- Outspacer
Well, no. This thread is not going to become any more focused if every page or two your list is reposted, prompting people to resume arguing on 10 or more different points.
It took a long while, but it's pretty clear the only real difference between VFourMax1's opinion and mine is over the 2 sec time penalties. I mention that because I think it is representative of two main camps:
camp 1, find the 2 sec penalties ruin races for innocents, and don't see them ever having the intended effect.
camp 2, see improvements in racing, assume it's because of the time penalties, and that future updates will improve it further.
I'm in camp 1, and also have technical objections to the time penalties.
You've been in camp 2 from the start, although now trying to present as neutral.
Since PD have clearly also made changes to SR calcs, I think a lot more is down to that than people in camp 2 realise.
To be very clear, because someone is bound to chirp up - BOTH of these camps want good clean racing. The 'rubbing is racing' crowd might claim to be in camp 1, but that shouldn't be used to ignore the many clean racers that are in camp 1 as well.
- 3,856
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
This is a long one, sorry, but I had to get it out. Sometimes, the old game designer in me has to have his say (it actually the only reason I come to the forum 
)
I'd like to address your points, if I may.
1 - Early on, almost any rear end collision resulted in the culprit getting 10 second penalty. One of the first updates reduced that tendency, presumably because it was being abused by people brake checking others. As I've said, and we all know to be true, the game knows when you are slowing down in a location where you should not be. It is, in fact, how penalties are scrubbed. I recommend returning to the old method and penalizing rear end collisions, maybe not 10 seconds, but at least with the sensitivity of old. If a player has a rear end collision while braking in a non-braking zone, the penalty should be shared.
2 & 3 - The penalty severity should be inverted and consistent across a broader range. This forces lower ranks to learn that contact is not acceptable, where as now, contact is the way to achieve a higher rank where you THEN learn that it's not acceptable at the cost of others.
I address this below.
This idea of "scrubbing off penalties" was misguided from the beginning. You should carry your penalties until the end just like real racing. In real racing, the marshals assess penalties after the fact. It's great to know what penalty you have, but scrubbing off is bad.
That said, the system created to allow scrubbing off penalties should be employed to determine blame. The system knows where drivers should be braking, and when they should be accelerating, and by how much. That can be used to put a player in a game state of "fault" and if a collision occurs while a player is in a fault state, give them a penalty. It won't be perfect, but it should be better.
This ship has sailed. They could put this system in place in GT League, but with little to play for in GT League, it will just reduce participation in that feature (if there is any to speak of). I feel strongly that an inverse ramp of penalty severity will be the only way to help this.
There needs to be a four pronged attack here. If I were hired to fix this problem, this is exactly what I would suggest. (full disclosure, I actually used to do this for a living. I would review pre-release games and give recommendations. I was also the lead designer on several versions of Battlefield..you might have heard of it
..there, now y'all know the truth..you can actually google my GTPlanet name and find old interviews if you think I'm making this up)
1 - Better game design - The emotional reward is not enough. There needs to be an increased tangible reward. In the FIA races, there's a top 24 where you get 3X points, etc. In GT6, there is a reward multiplier for daily login. Add a multiplier for race participation (max 3X or 5X per day) and point out to the player the extra bonus they are getting for improving their position. Players need to have a play space where there isn't only 1 winner. If a player can use Sport Mode in the same way they currently use GT League (to gain XP and credits) then, there will be more desire to participate. I would even go so far as tying the bonus to clean racing, but the clean race bonus needs to be less stringent. I have had clean races, no contact, no off tracks, etc, and still not received a bonus. It should be a simple check of penalty or no penalty.
2 - Tuning - For 20 years, GT has been about tuning. Tuning, from a game design perspective, creates a sense of ownership to a car. You could say that tuning makes the play field uneven, but it also makes the play field more realistic and equally uneven. It creates a sense of community and it connects the lobbies to sport mode even more.
3 - Better matchmaking. In the GT6 dailies, it states that there are often nearly 10,000 races in any one race at any one time. I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that there isn't enough players of one class to allow them to all be in the same room. Also, you can see a distinct attempt to create a replica of single player with hot-shoes up front, mid-pack drivers, and back markers. That may be fine when trying to create the illusion of participation, but in the real world, there needs to be an even skill base in each race. I believe the matchmaking is intentionally mismatched, and that needs to stop.
4 - More sport mode for the masses - In GT6, there are several races for road cars. The GTS approach is just too limiting. Sport Mode should be more like GT League with daily events that are more inclusive of the N class cars. Race A, Race B, Race C should really be Daily beginner, Daily intermediate, and Daily Advanced with three races per tier. Beginner is N100-N300. Intermediate is N400-N700 and Gr4. Advance is N700+, GR 3, and GR1. Race length increases with 3-4 laps on beginner, tire wear and fuel use at 1X. Intermediate has laps of 5-8 with tire wear and fuel use at 4X, basically not enough to require stops. Advanced has 10-15 lap races with tire wear and fuel use requiring pit strategy, including tire choice at race start. As a side note, BoP should restore a car to it's natural N level to maintain diversity (or we'll get everyone in a Porsche, all the time). (EDIT: Allow a little overlap of course, so some N class cars or GR4 can be in Advanced, some GR3 in intermediate, etc).
Then again, what do I know
btw, my afternoon appointment was cancelled so I had some time to kill...sorry for the novella.
)I'd like to address your points, if I may.
1 - Early on, almost any rear end collision resulted in the culprit getting 10 second penalty. One of the first updates reduced that tendency, presumably because it was being abused by people brake checking others. As I've said, and we all know to be true, the game knows when you are slowing down in a location where you should not be. It is, in fact, how penalties are scrubbed. I recommend returning to the old method and penalizing rear end collisions, maybe not 10 seconds, but at least with the sensitivity of old. If a player has a rear end collision while braking in a non-braking zone, the penalty should be shared.
2 & 3 - The penalty severity should be inverted and consistent across a broader range. This forces lower ranks to learn that contact is not acceptable, where as now, contact is the way to achieve a higher rank where you THEN learn that it's not acceptable at the cost of others.
I address this below.
This idea of "scrubbing off penalties" was misguided from the beginning. You should carry your penalties until the end just like real racing. In real racing, the marshals assess penalties after the fact. It's great to know what penalty you have, but scrubbing off is bad.
That said, the system created to allow scrubbing off penalties should be employed to determine blame. The system knows where drivers should be braking, and when they should be accelerating, and by how much. That can be used to put a player in a game state of "fault" and if a collision occurs while a player is in a fault state, give them a penalty. It won't be perfect, but it should be better.
This ship has sailed. They could put this system in place in GT League, but with little to play for in GT League, it will just reduce participation in that feature (if there is any to speak of). I feel strongly that an inverse ramp of penalty severity will be the only way to help this.
There needs to be a four pronged attack here. If I were hired to fix this problem, this is exactly what I would suggest. (full disclosure, I actually used to do this for a living. I would review pre-release games and give recommendations. I was also the lead designer on several versions of Battlefield..you might have heard of it
..there, now y'all know the truth..you can actually google my GTPlanet name and find old interviews if you think I'm making this up)1 - Better game design - The emotional reward is not enough. There needs to be an increased tangible reward. In the FIA races, there's a top 24 where you get 3X points, etc. In GT6, there is a reward multiplier for daily login. Add a multiplier for race participation (max 3X or 5X per day) and point out to the player the extra bonus they are getting for improving their position. Players need to have a play space where there isn't only 1 winner. If a player can use Sport Mode in the same way they currently use GT League (to gain XP and credits) then, there will be more desire to participate. I would even go so far as tying the bonus to clean racing, but the clean race bonus needs to be less stringent. I have had clean races, no contact, no off tracks, etc, and still not received a bonus. It should be a simple check of penalty or no penalty.
2 - Tuning - For 20 years, GT has been about tuning. Tuning, from a game design perspective, creates a sense of ownership to a car. You could say that tuning makes the play field uneven, but it also makes the play field more realistic and equally uneven. It creates a sense of community and it connects the lobbies to sport mode even more.
3 - Better matchmaking. In the GT6 dailies, it states that there are often nearly 10,000 races in any one race at any one time. I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that there isn't enough players of one class to allow them to all be in the same room. Also, you can see a distinct attempt to create a replica of single player with hot-shoes up front, mid-pack drivers, and back markers. That may be fine when trying to create the illusion of participation, but in the real world, there needs to be an even skill base in each race. I believe the matchmaking is intentionally mismatched, and that needs to stop.
4 - More sport mode for the masses - In GT6, there are several races for road cars. The GTS approach is just too limiting. Sport Mode should be more like GT League with daily events that are more inclusive of the N class cars. Race A, Race B, Race C should really be Daily beginner, Daily intermediate, and Daily Advanced with three races per tier. Beginner is N100-N300. Intermediate is N400-N700 and Gr4. Advance is N700+, GR 3, and GR1. Race length increases with 3-4 laps on beginner, tire wear and fuel use at 1X. Intermediate has laps of 5-8 with tire wear and fuel use at 4X, basically not enough to require stops. Advanced has 10-15 lap races with tire wear and fuel use requiring pit strategy, including tire choice at race start. As a side note, BoP should restore a car to it's natural N level to maintain diversity (or we'll get everyone in a Porsche, all the time). (EDIT: Allow a little overlap of course, so some N class cars or GR4 can be in Advanced, some GR3 in intermediate, etc).
Then again, what do I know
btw, my afternoon appointment was cancelled so I had some time to kill...sorry for the novella.
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- 369
- Ohio
Even if there aren’t enough S/S or A/S drivers to fill a grid in daily races, would a grid of 8-12 be so bad? Do we really need a full grid every race? Most of the dailies that are mixed from S/S - D/S half of the grid doesn’t even get to cross the finish line.
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- Phoenix Az.
- HuddyBob
Not sure I like the brake check bit, but if the rest was implemented, I could get behind it on the whole
As one of the first to speak out and hold the Dr.S drives to a higher standard... well, I've watched the videos and have since backed up on that. Not sure inverting the current system is proper, but, you follow that up with consistent across a broader range... some I'm really confused.
I propose same/equal penalties across the Dr.Sr. range... with same strictness/touchiness...
Somewhat agree, either way have the penalty flash on screen so you know it's been received... but... getting a 2-5 second penalty on certain sectors might be worth it (Nurb, esses at Suzuka) if stuck behind a slow driver... so... I see the point of serving in race, as, you'd simply be giving that spot back again to serve your penalty... until you passed cleanly... I can see both sides of this.
Consider my "penalty is worth it mentality" and open for discussion.
Currently nominating @Voodoovaj for manager level employment with PD.
Yes please... I understand weight/power/rideheight, and, I'll even submit to transmission (if I have to)... but please, give us chassis and diff... maybe aero too
If that is indeed the case... I'm with you 100%
Make it so... and, maybe make tire wear in the 3-4 lap races enough that it actually rewards smooth driving, rather than allows/permits over-driving.
This is a long one, sorry, but I had to get it out. Sometimes, the old game designer in me has to have his say (it actually the only reason I come to the forum
I'd like to address your points, if I may.
1 - Early on, almost any rear end collision resulted in the culprit getting 10 second penalty. One of the first updates reduced that tendency, presumably because it was being abused by people brake checking others. As I've said, and we all know to be true, the game knows when you are slowing down in a location where you should not be. It is, in fact, how penalties are scrubbed. I recommend returning to the old method and penalizing rear end collisions, maybe not 10 seconds, but at least with the sensitivity of old. If a player has a rear end collision while braking in a non-braking zone, the penalty should be shared.
2 & 3 - The penalty severity should be inverted and consistent across a broader range. This forces lower ranks to learn that contact is not acceptable, where as now, contact is the way to achieve a higher rank where you THEN learn that it's not acceptable at the cost of others.
I address this below.
This idea of "scrubbing off penalties" was misguided from the beginning. You should carry your penalties until the end just like real racing. In real racing, the marshals assess penalties after the fact. It's great to know what penalty you have, but scrubbing off is bad.
That said, the system created to allow scrubbing off penalties should be employed to determine blame. The system knows where drivers should be braking, and when they should be accelerating, and by how much. That can be used to put a player in a game state of "fault" and if a collision occurs while a player is in a fault state, give them a penalty. It won't be perfect, but it should be better.
This ship has sailed. They could put this system in place in GT League, but with little to play for in GT League, it will just reduce participation in that feature (if there is any to speak of). I feel strongly that an inverse ramp of penalty severity will be the only way to help this.
There needs to be a four pronged attack here. If I were hired to fix this problem, this is exactly what I would suggest. (full disclosure, I actually used to do this for a living. I would review pre-release games and give recommendations. I was also the lead designer on several versions of Battlefield..you might have heard of it
1 - Better game design - The emotional reward is not enough. There needs to be an increased tangible reward. In the FIA races, there's a top 24 where you get 3X points, etc. In GT6, there is a reward multiplier for daily login. Add a multiplier for race participation (max 3X or 5X per day) and point out to the player the extra bonus they are getting for improving their position. Players need to have a play space where there isn't only 1 winner. If a player can use Sport Mode in the same way they currently use GT League (to gain XP and credits) then, there will be more desire to participate. I would even go so far as tying the bonus to clean racing, but the clean race bonus needs to be less stringent. I have had clean races, no contact, no off tracks, etc, and still not received a bonus. It should be a simple check of penalty or no penalty.
2 - Tuning - For 20 years, GT has been about tuning. Tuning, from a game design perspective, creates a sense of ownership to a car. You could say that tuning makes the play field uneven, but it also makes the play field more realistic and equally uneven. It creates a sense of community and it connects the lobbies to sport mode even more.
3 - Better matchmaking. In the GT6 dailies, it states that there are often nearly 10,000 races in any one race at any one time. I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that there isn't enough players of one class to allow them to all be in the same room. Also, you can see a distinct attempt to create a replica of single player with hot-shoes up front, mid-pack drivers, and back markers. That may be fine when trying to create the illusion of participation, but in the real world, there needs to be an even skill base in each race. I believe the matchmaking is intentionally mismatched, and that needs to stop.
4 - More sport mode for the masses - In GT6, there are several races for road cars. The GTS approach is just too limiting. Sport Mode should be more like GT League with daily events that are more inclusive of the N class cars. Race A, Race B, Race C should really be Daily beginner, Daily intermediate, and Daily Advanced with three races per tier. Beginner is N100-N300. Intermediate is N400-N700 and Gr4. Advance is N700+, GR 3, and GR1. Race length increases with 3-4 laps on beginner, tire wear and fuel use at 1X. Intermediate has laps of 5-8 with tire wear and fuel use at 4X, basically not enough to require stops. Advanced has 10-15 lap races with tire wear and fuel use requiring pit strategy, including tire choice at race start. As a side note, BoP should restore a car to it's natural N level to maintain diversity (or we'll get everyone in a Porsche, all the time).
Then again, what do I know
btw, my afternoon appointment was cancelled so I had some time to kill...sorry for the novella.
Interesting to read your points, and may be representative of what the general population want from GT.
However, none of these points are remotely important to me personally and they all seem to come down to two key points: user motivation and increased content.
Regarding content - GTS's greatest strength is the reduced, more focused content. By virtue of having to pick from 3 daily races, it has forced me to try cars and tracks I wouldn't have ordinarily picked and am 100% sure it has made me a better driver and have more satisfying races because of it. I believe too it has made the options available to be more competitive and has forced everyone to step up their game to compete.
Regarding user motivation/reward system - I find the satisfaction is entirely in setting your own goals from the race, going in knowing you won't qualify first and won't win the race, but instead choosing you own battles and setting your own targets and working to your own agenda. There is a certain immaturity in games like COD with regular XP and achievement, which I feel are entirely hollow in substance.
Until this latest penalty system, I can say GT:S to be my favourite game ever and wouldn't want to see it change back to GT of old of meaningless tuning, or petty reward systems to keep people fundamentally disinterested players slightly less uninterested.
Sure they could get more money from the franchise and more active players online, but in my mind, it would be to the detriment of the spirit of what PD are aiming to achieve
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- 1,605
- Greece
- Giorgos_Ferrari
I want your opinion on this guys
Now before anyone say it , yes i admit i was more dearing than i usually am but i recognized my mistake & gave the position back.
- 2,677
- UK
- Outspacer
Yeah, that is the mode it seems to go to when it decides there aren't enough players available for more DR -based matching. I think the cutoff is probably too high, unless they've changed it, since there were times (back when I was DR B) when we'd be having all DR B SR S races, then suddenly it would change to rabbit mode races. It's no like all of those other Bs that I was racing against decided to go to bed at the same time!
EU region might have ~10,000 setting quali times for each race. But that doesn't say much, since I don't think we know how many of them actually enter a race (I've often used it just to get my daily marathon, when I don't have time or inclination for racing). Even if half of them do, they are spread across multiple time zones / different preferred playing times etc, so you could be down to a lot less than 1,000 at times. Then only a small percent are DR A or S... it's not great for them.
Even so, it does seem counter-productive to generate rabbit-style races at any time. They are terrible for measuring DR.
I'm not sure if they've changed it or not recently, they might have. The few races I had at the weekend (v. late sat night) seemed like DR-style rather than rabbit-style - there was one or 2 Ss and a few As, filled out with Bs. Not the S or A down to D mix I used to see at that time of night. That said, N24 probably draws in more of those that know the track well enough, so it may not be a representative example.
