Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

[TenderLoins]

Driver with higher DR is more likely to get the penalty. You may have seen a lot of DR S drivers complaining the most about the super harsh penalties. Last weekend I was endlessly rammed by DR D drivers and they rarely got penalties while I was rewarded some.

Not just S/S but A/S also.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I understand. But you also prove that people are penalised because of a reason. While a lot of people here say drivers all are penalised without a reason.

Indeed, although the reason is always contact, whether that always warrants a penalty for both drivers is up for debate. Plus there is the one where I can't see any contact happening.

 

[Macboyilija]

I answered to that video as well. It seems strange indeed, but could be well this:

You were driving/braking on a strange place on the track, maybe the computer misunderstood that ?

From another thread about this subject (how many are there?) I saw this great remark:

I'd love to see some of you in an organised league race. You wouldn't last past the first meeting if you drive by the "rules" some of you have set for yourselves.

 

[Outspacer]

Indeed, although the reason is always contact, whether that always warrants a penalty for both drivers is up for debate. Plus there is the one where I can't see any contact happening.

It's odd, because it seems to happen right at the same time as the -SR marker appears and normally there's a short delay, but the car behind (CB) might have just made contact. CB starts to move left, then the proximity makes the screen darken, then CB seems to possibly have his course altered from a bump - very slightly, but suddenly. Car in front is just starting to brake as well.

But it's all happening so close in time I can't really tell what order those three things happen in.

 

[Lion-Face]

Indeed, although the reason is always contact, whether that always warrants a penalty for both drivers is up for debate. Plus there is the one where I can't see any contact happening.

It's these types of penalties which need to be dropped. I believe the contact happens at 0:05 seconds of the video. It's soo hard to spot, but the driver behind gives you the slightest of nudges. I picked it up by watching your speed, as you are climbing up the kmph at a normal speed, then you see it go from 207, 208, 209kmph very quickly. Nothing you could have done, the other driver just misjudged by the smallest of margins, that is tough penalty to swallow.

 

[Outspacer]

It's these types of penalties which need to be dropped. I believe the contact happens at 0:05 seconds of the video. It's soo hard to spot, but the driver behind gives you the slightest of nudges. I picked it up by watching your speed, as you are climbing up the kmph at a normal speed, then you see it go from 207, 208, 209kmph very quickly. Nothing you could have done, the other driver just misjudged by the smallest of margins, that is tough penalty to swallow.

That makes more sense with the timing of the -SR marker. Sun covering the rear view mirror at that point, can't see if CB is affected at all, but he does seem to drop back a tiny bit.

 

[kilesa4568]

That penalty was just the same as Lion Face's. Unjustified.

I know the idea is to put pressure on the person in front but why the hell do so many people insist on doing it so closely? There's no way they can react quick enough and they're almost guaranteed to give a tickle at some point by doing it. Way too aggressive and they should know by now that both parties will come to grief by doing it.

Why PD haven't done a U-turn on penalties for the person in front is beyond me. It's turning into the poll tax of GTS.

 

[cleanLX]

It's these types of penalties which need to be dropped. I believe the contact happens at 0:05 seconds of the video. It's soo hard to spot, but the driver behind gives you the slightest of nudges. I picked it up by watching your speed, as you are climbing up the kmph at a normal speed, then you see it go from 207, 208, 209kmph very quickly. Nothing you could have done, the other driver just misjudged by the smallest of margins, that is tough penalty to swallow.

Yep, just before the top of the hill... that's what I "see" (ok, guess???) too.
While I have been one to promote no contact, I have to admit that was lame... and... at the same time, I'm with @kilesa4568 ... why? without a "run", you're not getting past there, and, that close, there is no "run" to be had.

It's amazing how many people do not know how to alter their line/apex/braking point/throttle tip-in to actually "race".

I'm not claiming to be fast by any stretch, and, I'm certainly no race god, but, watching your opponent and altering your drive to counter has more to due with gaining spots than grabbing the OP car and nailing a "once in a life time" quali lap.
For reference, last night, I picked the slowest of 3 cars I tested (because it rev's to 9000 and sounds bad-ass)... started 4th, went to 2nd by lap 3or4(don't remember), wrecked myself (oh, ya, my car of choice was also the most difficult to drive of the 3 I tested) -spun- all alone, turned 90* and hit the wall nose first, had to back up, turn around, wait for traffic... did not get reset... drove out - regained in 8th, then finished 4th... and it sure isn't because I'm "fast".

Watch your opponents, see where they are gaining/loosing, work on offsetting that... done... pretty much a guarantee they will drive the same lines "no-matter-what"... which will allow you to go bye, or, they will try and go faster (late brake, early throttle) without changing their lines to suit, and, again, you go bye.
Good racing is when you both start changing lines ever so slightly in an attempt to get the edge... then it's on... not butt-to-nose running, or little nudges.

/kicks the soap box...

 

[cleanLX]

^^and that right there kids is why you don't "drink" and internet.
I'm sorry for that coming across high and mighty... the point I was trying to make is there, and it got a couple likes from folks I respect, so, I'll leave it as is, but, reading it this morning... it's a little embarrassing.
Sorry again.

 

[Robben]

That penalty was just the same as Lion Face's. Unjustified.

I know the idea is to put pressure on the person in front but why the hell do so many people insist on doing it so closely? There's no way they can react quick enough and they're almost guaranteed to give a tickle at some point by doing it. Way too aggressive and they should know by now that both parties will come to grief by doing it.

Why PD haven't done a U-turn on penalties for the person in front is beyond me. It's turning into the poll tax of GTS.

To prevent brake checking. I have already noticed more caution in front and behind... another week or so and all of this will be ironed out

@cleanLX you are right though... so many people just charge into T1 of a race as if they are qualifying still giving no regard to other drivers. Last night on Blue Moon I started in 5th which was horrible as you have a pack ahead and behind, I slowed early to prevent hitting the cars in front and I then have 2 cars muscle through my inside, who I give the places to so as not to cause an accident. Similarly, T2/3 I gave space and get assaulted again T4 under bridge I finally have now way to escape and have multiple contacts ending with 11 seconds penalties

But yeah, it still happens a lot and it's a lack of regard for racecraft. And I can say that as someone who has only learnt any degree of this in the past few weeks.. previously I was "that guy" flying to the inside of corners and pushing others out of the way then wondering why people got upset . Mostly though, apart from one or two idiots, I am finding much more respectful and mature racing recently.

 

[bdz_apa]

I set the recording time to 30 minutes for video clips and hit the share button after each race to save the replay. That keeps all the information as it was during the race. Replays let you see what another car saw, yet not really. It shows the car telemetry as you have received it after lag, so it might well have been a different experience for them on the track.

thanks, great

 

[polizei]

It's so bad, I'd rather start pole or last,nowhere in between. I'm not a pro gamer, but after having 3 clean races in a row and then basically having my SR reset to zero for 1 insignificant bump and a 1sec penalty I don't even know wtf is going on with this system. It's clearly not working if everyone is hating it so much.

 

[Robben]

then basically having my SR reset to zero for 1 insignificant bump and a 1sec penalty

Really?

 

[Arcflyer]

Wait, where did this come from?

Does this mean a driver with a high DR is less likely because the collision can be considered accidental (as they are a top driver), or is a driver with a high DR more likely to get a penalty because they should know better?

Does this also mean collisions don't actually lower our DR?

Original source of news - https://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/gtsport/news/00_5668483.html

 

[Macboyilija]

I slowed early to prevent hitting the cars in front and I then have 2 cars muscle through my inside, who I give the places to so as not to cause an accident. Similarly, T2/3 I gave space and get assaulted again

But yeah, it still happens a lot and it's a lack of regard for racecraft. And I can say that as someone who has only learnt any degree of this in the past few weeks.. previously I was "that guy" flying to the inside of corners and pushing others out of the way then wondering why people got upset. Mostly though, apart from one or two idiots, I am finding much more respectful and mature racing recently.

This is really frustrating. But the blame is on PD as well. Why are there 321 missions about racing yet there is not a single one learning you how to approach T1 with busy crowd ? I mean just a video of 5 min is all we have. Thats it. That indeed is a shame but at the same time very easy and cheap to fix. Its way easier than creating a nee track.

So lets hope PD will work on this and add some -SB lesson missions !

 

[I-Runner]

Really?

After some races lately I saw many players with the DR/SR resetted, at Tokyo.
You can see them at the bottom of the result board with DR/SR .. --/E (or viceversa)

IR

 

[Robben]

This is really frustrating. But the blame is on PD as well. Why are there 321 missions about racing yet there is not a single one learning you how to approach T1 with busy crowd ? I mean just a video of 5 min is all we have. Thats it. That indeed is a shame but at the same time very easy and cheap to fix. Its way easier than creating a nee track.

So lets hope PD will work on this and add some -SB lesson missions !

Yep... and the mission challenges should have corner cut penalties, collision penalties or DQs...

After some races lately I saw many players with the DR/SR resetted, at Tokyo.
You can see them at the bottom of the result board with DR/SR .. --/E (or viceversa)

IR

That's the automatic display for people who are disqualified or quit. I don't believe they actually reset to E unless they lose enough SR

 

[Mirror_man]

This is really frustrating. But the blame is on PD as well. Why are there 321 missions about racing yet there is not a single one learning you how to approach T1 with busy crowd ? I mean just a video of 5 min is all we have. That s it. That indeed is a shame but at the same time very easy and cheap to fix. Its way easier than creating a nee track.

So lets hope PD will work on this and add some -SB lesson missions !

Instead of just seeing two videos.. to get the Sport License... there should be 1st.. a manual of etiquette .. more or less with ideas/principles/suggestions like those on my thread: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/my-contribution-for-a-better-driving-behaviour-how-to-play-gts-with-new-penalization-system.375408

That you had to read fully!

And then a full round of Missions regarding each and every point of such manual...that will happen on online race... (with enough difficulty to grant that only with full respect to etiquette ruled and some medium hard "sporting speed" the player could advance to next level... and in the end of all those missions.. only then the player would be allowed to play GTS!!! with a starting SR value of... 450!!! (current SR points range should be multiplied for 10!!! =>Instead of just having 1 to 99 sr points there should be 1 to 999)

Furthermore..

If SR (a correct one.. based on a better penalization system) would drop under 50 or 100 (for example) the player would need to repeat the whole process of getting the Sport License!!

 

[Robben]

That you had to read fully!

I think a practical tutorial would be better and more engaging than written tutorial, or even video tutorial (I pressed play then went and did other things for the one in the game!)

 

[Outspacer]

This is really frustrating. But the blame is on PD as well. Why are there 321 missions about racing yet there is not a single one learning you how to approach T1 with busy crowd ? I mean just a video of 5 min is all we have. Thats it. That indeed is a shame but at the same time very easy and cheap to fix. Its way easier than creating a nee track.

So lets hope PD will work on this and add some -SB lesson missions !

I had an idea once that an offline mode could mimic the dailies, with a separate DR and SR, race's difficulty based on your offline DR, and AI dirtiness based on your offline SR. And I mean, they could be so really, magically vengeful. Unfortunately, anything like that requires far superior AI to what they have, and would just provide a training ground for how to be dirty and get away with it.

 

[Voodoovaj]

This is really frustrating. But the blame is on PD as well. Why are there 321 missions about racing yet there is not a single one learning you how to approach T1 with busy crowd ?

I have stated this before, but it's worth repeating. IMHO, I believe that PD is GROSSLY understaffed. I believe that they've been understaffed for a long time (ergo, long intervals between releases) but this time around, it's almost crippling.

They've always been very art heavy and the programming has centered on the driving and visuals, leaving little resource for other aspects of the game. I don't believe they even have a dedicated design staff given the game desgin/game play elements are rudimentary.

All the mistakes we've seen, the limited launch, limited single player, etc, are all ear marks of being under staffed.

 

[bdz_apa]

I had an idea once that an offline mode could mimic the dailies, with a separate DR and SR, race's difficulty based on your offline DR, and AI dirtiness based on your offline SR. And I mean, they could be so really, magically vengeful. Unfortunately, anything like that requires far superior AI to what they have, and would just provide a training ground for how to be dirty and get away with it.

Indeed, a much better AI, I mean which is closer to real life players, would really help the initial learning process of any new gamer.

 

[Macboyilija]

Lets not forget this game is not only sold to Simracers like some of us are on GT planet, but to a variety of people from young to old. That said PD itself is claiming to be a simulation with the e-sports and FIA races.

They are “limping on 2 thoughts” ... sorry have no idea how to say this in English properly

Lets just hope they limp in our direction !

 

[JulesDennis]

Lets not forget this game is not only sold to Simracers like some of us are on GT planet, but to a variety of people from young to old. That said PD itself is claiming to be a simulation with the e-sports and FIA races.

They are “limping on 2 thoughts” ... sorry have no idea how to say this in English properly

Lets just hope they limp in our direction !

Yet who is buying the game has nothing to do with how "sim" or not the product is in the first place.
And every single person is paying money for that product with the title : GRAN TURISMO SPORT-The real driving simulator.

 

[Mr616]

I've got some 20 second examples from today's daily C of the broken penalties

First a classic dive bomb

+2 sec for each. Why am I punished the same for being the recipient of a dive bomb manoever?

This next one really irked me

I have complete overlap at turn in point. The defender turns into me, yet he's a DR.B driver. Result I get SR Down and 2 sec penalty. He gets nothing for that, no red dot at the finish, all clear. If you're DR Bump, this is the way to stop DR.A and DR.S players.

In the same place

My wheels skid, I lose some speed, car behind doesn't pay attention and bumps me. No harm yet another 2 sec for me and 3 sec for the car behind.

Again that chicane

I overtake, miss my braking point and have to slow down extra. I stay on the side yet the car I overtook brushes mine. +2 sec each.

This one I don't even know

I guess he was following too close? The SR Down flashing up distracted me enough to go wide lol. +2 sec for me, +3 sec for the car behind.

Why try to overtake at that chicane? It's not really gaining you anything other than a slow run up the hill. You're best served following through and make the move at the left hand hairpin.

Yep, just before the top of the hill... that's what I "see" (ok, guess???) too.
While I have been one to promote no contact, I have to admit that was lame... and... at the same time, I'm with @kilesa4568 ... why? without a "run", you're not getting past there, and, that close, there is no "run" to be had.

It's amazing how many people do not know how to alter their line/apex/braking point/throttle tip-in to actually "race".

I'm not claiming to be fast by any stretch, and, I'm certainly no race god, but, watching your opponent and altering your drive to counter has more to due with gaining spots than grabbing the OP car and nailing a "once in a life time" quali lap.
For reference, last night, I picked the slowest of 3 cars I tested (because it rev's to 9000 and sounds bad-ass)... started 4th, went to 2nd by lap 3or4(don't remember), wrecked myself (oh, ya, my car of choice was also the most difficult to drive of the 3 I tested) -spun- all alone, turned 90* and hit the wall nose first, had to back up, turn around, wait for traffic... did not get reset... drove out - regained in 8th, then finished 4th... and it sure isn't because I'm "fast".

Watch your opponents, see where they are gaining/loosing, work on offsetting that... done... pretty much a guarantee they will drive the same lines "no-matter-what"... which will allow you to go bye, or, they will try and go faster (late brake, early throttle) without changing their lines to suit, and, again, you go bye.
Good racing is when you both start changing lines ever so slightly in an attempt to get the edge... then it's on... not butt-to-nose running, or little nudges.

/kicks the soap box...

I have never overtaken at the chicane in videos 2 and 3 because, there is nothing to gain but everything to lose, and the chicane itself is very fast, but to overtake you are taking incredibly slowly.

I always follow through there and get the overtake done at the left hand hairpin.

Penalties are harsh in those vids, but drivers are also responsible. A lot of that could've been avoided through better racing decisions and not putting yourself in, potentially, harms way. It's fine if you have raced with those people and trust them, but these are public lobbies.

 

[Mirror_man]

I think a practical tutorial would be better and more engaging than written tutorial, or even video tutorial (I pressed play then went and did other things for the one in the game!)

Of course!!! But subtitled... for those who cant´t ear... ah.. and in that case the video would have to be seen in normal play.. no fwd allowed!!

 

[polizei]

Really?

Yes I went from 22 to 6 iirc.

And 51 to 1 on day of patch, no idea why.

 

[bdz_apa]

Lets not forget this game is not only sold to Simracers like some of us are on GT planet, but to a variety of people from young to old. That said PD itself is claiming to be a simulation with the e-sports and FIA races.

They are “limping on 2 thoughts” ... sorry have no idea how to say this in English properly

Lets just hope they limp in our direction !

A bit OFF but maybe to the point.
Recently I arranged birthday party for my son and his friends. 10 kids into a sim racing hall, with pro equipment, 3 displays, race seat etc
Now it took me long time to convince them _not_to_start with F1, but with kind a Clio cup instead, then maybe touring cars, some GT racing and then, maybe, perhaps, some F1 at the end. Of course they voted for only one race in the Clios, then rush to F1 which resulted in 10 cars spending more time off track than on. Was it fun? Not really. We forced them back to "slow" FF cars and after all they had a great day.

 

[Mirror_man]

Indeed, a much better AI, I mean which is closer to real life players, would really help the initial learning process of any new gamer.

The Whole issue of AI is taken too much lightly in this game, that´s what I think...

For a truly correct penalization system, the AI issue is tremendous important.. as the way to judge who´s to blame in each accident situation involving more than one player, would have to rely on a very good AI, and done by comparing AI behavior vs those of the players involved in such accidents!

 

[bdz_apa]

Lets not forget this game is not only sold to Simracers like some of us are on GT planet, but to a variety of people from young to old. That said PD itself is claiming to be a simulation with the e-sports and FIA races.

They are “limping on 2 thoughts” ... sorry have no idea how to say this in English properly

Lets just hope they limp in our direction !

A bit OFF but maybe to the point.
Recently I arranged birthday party for my son and his friends. 10 kids into a sim racing hall, with pro equipment, 3 displays, race seat etc
Now it took me long time to convince them _not_to_start with F1, but with kind a Clio cup instead, then maybe touring cars, some GT racing and then, maybe, perhaps, some F1 at the end. Of course they voted for only one race in the Clios, then rush to F1 which resulted in 10 cars spending more time off track than on. Was it fun? Not really. We forced them back to "slow" FF cars and after all they had a great day.