Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

[cleanLX]

I have never overtaken at the chicane in videos 2 and 3 because, there is nothing to gain but everything to lose, and the chicane itself is very fast, but to overtake you are taking incredibly slowly.
I always follow through there and get the overtake done at the left hand hairpin.

Agreed, late apex the first left into the chicane to get a good run out of the sequence, and, concentrate real hard (maybe even stick your tongue out some due to extent of concentration) and pray for the run up over the hill and into the hairpin... hopefully be along side... linger for a nano-second and hope to get to the gas early as a result... That's how I race too... set the move up for the hairpin on entry to the chicane (4 corners earlier)...
Doesn't win me any races but sure is fun to set things up for sure/clean passes.

 

[kilesa4568]

Instead of just seeing two videos.. to get the Sport License... there should be 1st.. a manual of etiquette .. more or less with ideas/principles/suggestions like those on my thread: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/my-contribution-for-a-better-driving-behaviour-how-to-play-gts-with-new-penalization-system.375408

That you had to read fully!

Regarding your extra etiquette lessons, people will plough through them as quick as they possibly can but will then carry on ignoring most of it in the races. It's the etiquette in the online races that really needs addressing.

 

[Voodoovaj]

A state machine is the answer (I'm only writing this in the hopes that someone at PD reads it).

The game knows acceleration zones and braking zones. Although the current driving line doesn't change colour to show this, it has in the past. Also (sorry to be a broken record) the penalty system uses the game's awareness of acceleration and braking zones to determine if you are scrubbing off penalties.

Use this system and put players in a "state" of "full throttle" "part throttle" or "brake". Also, use the driving line to determine "on line" or "off line".

In full throttle state - braking is a "fault"
In brake state - throttle is a "fault"
In part throttle state - full brake or full throttle is a "fault"
In off line state - Off line is deemed at fault when colliding with on line IF on line is not in a fault state.

A "fault" state must persist for a set time, maybe 0.1 seconds, that is about a car length.

If you are in a fault state and you collide with a driver who is in a normal state, you are deemed at fault and you get the penalty. Fault collides with fault no one gets a penalty.

When a collision occurs, forgive brake fault and off line fault within 100 meters. This allows people to avoid an accident without incurring penalties.

It isn't perfect and there would be plenty of edge cases, but it would be a start. At least, you can build states based on the above states to cover edge cases

 

[BSDShoes]

I have never overtaken at the chicane in videos 2 and 3 because, there is nothing to gain but everything to lose, and the chicane itself is very fast, but to overtake you are taking incredibly slowly.

Yeah I usually avoid trying to overtake in that chicane area, I've had people shove their way through past me though and 9 out of 10 times it caused me to go off the track and receive stupid penalties. It's like a pot bellied pig trying to get through the doggie door.

 

[Mirror_man]

Regarding your extra etiquette lessons, people will plough through them as quick as they possibly can but will then carry on ignoring most of it in the races. It's the etiquette in the online races that really needs addressing.

Case you´ve not read the thread in total..I know its long and boring...for you probably and not only for you... ... (I suspect so, with such a "uninformed" comment), some of the examples and rules there posted , came from several Online Racing leagues through the World.. .

Yeah I usually avoid trying to overtake in that chicane area, I've had people shove their way through past me though and 9 out of 10 times it caused me to go off the track and receive stupid penalties. It's like a pot bellied pig trying to get through the doggie door.

that happened to me yesterday.. several times..

 

[kilesa4568]

Case you´ve not read the thread in total..I know its long and boring...for you probably and not only for you... ... (I suspect so, with such a "uninformed" comment), some of the examples and rules there posted , came from several Online Racing leagues through the World.. .

I've read it and 99.9% is common sense. Great if you don't know it but reaffirming for those that do.

You're missing my point with my comment though. As well written as it is, it doesn't mean it has to followed religiously. Go in a daily race and you'll find others who've possibly read it but still choose to ignore the majority, if not all of it.

 

[Mirror_man]

I've read it and 99.9% is common sense. Great if you don't know it but reaffirming for those that do.

You're missing my point with my comment though. As well written as it is, it doesn't mean it has to followed religiously. Go in a daily race and you'll find others who've possibly read it but still choose to ignore the majority, if not all of it.

Of course not "Religiously" in any way!!

I don´t even am that kinda person (Religious) and have never been it ....

And I have to admit that sometimes when I get tired on a race of being hit by the same douche bag intentionally I may at least try to retaliate.. like pressing him in the next curve to go out of the track or against a wall! I admit I´ve done that. more than once.. but after being treated like I´m just a piece of garbage to be taken out of someone´s way... and I believe that most people don´t like that just like me... so much...

 

[kilesa4568]

I think we've got a bit of a language barrier issue, even though your English is very good.

When I say religiously, I mean following every bit of your guide on etiquette with no exceptions. I'll put it this way. Lewis Hamilton has just read your guide but he's decided to ignore every single thing in it. Of course he knows all about etiquette, he's just decided not to use it in a daily race. That's what I meant in my comment.

(I've done around 10,000 races over the last few years and watched all sorts of motor sport for 40+ years. My etiquette was learned long ago.👍)

 

[Mirror_man]

I think we've got a bit of a language barrier issue, even though your English is very good.

When I say religiously, I mean following every bit of your guide on etiquette with no exceptions. I'll put it this way. Lewis Hamilton has just read your guide but he's decided to ignore every single thing in it. Of course he knows all about etiquette, he's just decided not to use it in a daily race. That's what I meant in my comment.

(I've done around 10,000 races over the last few years and watched all sorts of motor sport for 40+ years. My etiquette was learned long ago.👍)

No barrage language. dude. .. I think that you are not very used to play with words... some (many words) have different meanings. and I like to use them.. to lighten up the conversation and also to "modify"the line of conversation in the way I .. like most... specially if I´m in a good mood!

By the way. has any one commented that your avatar seems like a bit intimidating?? (Honestly!!)

It looks like you´re looking at us and thinking "the moment you say something I don´like. your a dead man, dude!"

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Agreed, late apex the first left into the chicane to get a good run out of the sequence, and, concentrate real hard (maybe even stick your tongue out some due to extent of concentration) and pray for the run up over the hill and into the hairpin... hopefully be along side... linger for a nano-second and hope to get to the gas early as a result... That's how I race too... set the move up for the hairpin on entry to the chicane (4 corners earlier)...
Doesn't win me any races but sure is fun to set things up for sure/clean passes.

I'm not that good! And I've been hit far more times at the hairpin by people simply turning into me or swerve blocking me up the hill. I've had more successful passes at the run up to the chicane. Plus that first dive bomb was the result of not overtaking the slower car at the run up to the chicane... He wobbled in the middle like I did in the 3rd video, I lost exit speed to avoid hitting him, then was easy prey at the hairpin.

Hindsight is always 20/20

 

[kilesa4568]

No barrage language. dude. .. I think that you are not very used to play with words... some (many words) have different meanings. and I like to use them.. to lighten up the conversation and also to "modify"the line of conversation in the way I .. like most... specially if I´m in a good mood!

You talking to me? (see below)

By the way. has any one commented that your avatar seems like a bit intimidating?? (Honestly!!)

It looks like you´re looking at us and thinking "the moment you say something I don´like. your a dead man, dude!"

Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver. My favourite character and film by far.

We'd better stop with the off topic stuff...

 

[cleanLX]

I'm not that good!

Are you concentrating hard enough to make your tongue stick out?
And, you're selling yourself short... are you not Dr.S?

 

[shaunus]

A state machine is the answer (I'm only writing this in the hopes that someone at PD reads it).

The game knows acceleration zones and braking zones. Although the current driving line doesn't change colour to show this, it has in the past. Also (sorry to be a broken record) the penalty system uses the game's awareness of acceleration and braking zones to determine if you are scrubbing off penalties.

Use this system and put players in a "state" of "full throttle" "part throttle" or "brake". Also, use the driving line to determine "on line" or "off line".

In full throttle state - braking is a "fault"
In brake state - throttle is a "fault"
In part throttle state - full brake or full throttle is a "fault"
In off line state - Off line is deemed at fault when colliding with on line IF on line is not in a fault state.

A "fault" state must persist for a set time, maybe 0.1 seconds, that is about a car length.

If you are in a fault state and you collide with a driver who is in a normal state, you are deemed at fault and you get the penalty. Fault collides with fault no one gets a penalty.

When a collision occurs, forgive brake fault and off line fault within 100 meters. This allows people to avoid an accident without incurring penalties.

It isn't perfect and there would be plenty of edge cases, but it would be a start. At least, you can build states based on the above states to cover edge cases

The current system is not clear, but it DOES attempt to assess blame using various criteria.. this is clear because I've been hit up the butt and not got penalties, and also got hit the same way and been penalised when I had, frankly, braked too early. Not saying it is perfect but it is making these calculations on some level.

 

[Voodoovaj]

The current system is not clear, but it DOES attempt to assess blame using various criteria.. this is clear because I've been hit up the butt and not got penalties, and also got hit the same way and been penalised when I had, frankly, braked too early. Not saying it is perfect but it is making these calculations on some level.

EXCEPT, I have been penalized while accelerating through a corner and the following car tried to under cut me and clipped my rear, which is a clear case where I should never have been penalized. I also got hit today (and several times) by a car that was out of control and took a penalty.

Also, remember that your relative DR is a factor. A higher DR rank will make you more likely to get the penalty.

Whatever it's doing is garbage and needs to be redone because it is FAR too inconsistent to be of any use. If you want people to behave themselves, everyone needs to know the rules of the game. When everyone plays by different rules, there are in essence, no rules.

 

[shaunus]

EXCEPT, I have been penalized while accelerating through a corner and the following car tried to under cut me and clipped my rear, which is a clear case where I should never have been penalized. I also got hit today (and several times) by a car that was out of control and took a penalty.

Also, remember that your relative DR is a factor. A higher DR rank will make you more likely to get the penalty.

Whatever it's doing is garbage and needs to be redone because it is FAR too inconsistent to be of any use. If you want people to behave themselves, everyone needs to know the rules of the game. When everyone plays by different rules, there are in essence, no rules.

I think you overstate the case (driving overall seems better than before) but it clearly does need to be improved yes.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I think you overstate the case (driving overall seems better than before) but it clearly does need to be improved yes.

I doubt it.

If everyone was racing under the same rules as SR-S, 99% of the Sport Mode players would be DQ'd from their races.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Are you concentrating hard enough to make your tongue stick out?
And, you're selling yourself short... are you not Dr.S?

Haha no. I was fluctuating between high B and low A, since the penalties I've shot up to high A. Not getting punted off the track did a lot for my DR. Though I'm currently back on a downward trend. I guess people have adjusted and aren't giving me so many positions anymore while serving penalties

 

[shaunus]

I doubt it.

If everyone was racing under the same rules as SR-S, 99% of the Sport Mode players would be DQ'd from their races.

Perhaps true (hyperbole aside), but the rules for S are just one part of the system, so us lesser beings do have some comments to make about our experience too yes?

Driving overall has, in my experience, improved in C-A sr rating categories, when compared to before this change. In fact I would go as far as to say that it has indisputably improved, and that the few people who act like total asses are being DQd, ghosted etc often enough that they are no longer a huge irritant very often.

I am on board with your issue about the staggered harshness of rules being unfair. Maybe the solution is to apply the rules to the median sr category of cars in the race, so at least you are playing by the same rules as an A driver in there with you?

 

[Voodoovaj]

I am on board with your issue about the staggered harshness of rules being unfair. Maybe the solution is to apply the rules to the median sr category of cars in the race, so at least you are playing by the same rules as an A driver in there with you?

Rules need to be the same, regardless.

Great, the racing is better in the lower ranks. I can agree that I am seeing less bad behaviour, however, an this is important, when I do see bad behaviour it is often from a lower ranked driver who likely doesn't realize that his move is penalty worthy. Yes, the penalties have punted some bad guys down several ranks, but in doing so, they now race with more lenient rules. So, they learn the lenient rules, move up the ranks, and race by those lenient rules.

Mean while, higher ranks are terrified of being touched by anyone. It's like the game operation where you get zapped for touching the edges.

Seeing that most people are in the lower categories, the leniency should reduce as you move up the ranks if they change at all. Although, 1 rule is the best practice!

 

[shaunus]

I'm actually with you that there should not be staggered rules. What I am seeing in B/A is a good balance and should probably apply to all.

 

[cleanLX]

Rules need to be the same, regardless.

Great, the racing is better in the lower ranks. I can agree that I am seeing less bad behaviour, however, an this is important, when I do see bad behaviour it is often from a lower ranked driver who likely doesn't realize that his move is penalty worthy. Yes, the penalties have punted some bad guys down several ranks, but in doing so, they now race with more lenient rules. So, they learn the lenient rules, move up the ranks, and race by those lenient rules.

Mean while, higher ranks are terrified of being touched by anyone. It's like the game operation where you get zapped for touching the edges.

Seeing that most people are in the lower categories, the leniency should reduce as you move up the ranks if they change at all. Although, 1 rule is the best practice!

Well, devils advocate... maybe this is PD's way of letting the lower ranks get payback on those Dr.S folks that used to run us over like misplaced pylons...
.
So, joke over.
I 100% agree penalty system needs be the same for all (and in the beginning I was holding Dr.S to a higher standard, but, watching the videos... mmm... no longer doing so)
So, from videos, seems Dr.S is a little harsh, good intentions PD, but... need to let the reigns out just a hair... and, at lower Dr. is much, much too lenient.
Needs to be a happy medium, and, "I" hope it lands on the strict side of the equation... for all.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Well, devils advocate... maybe this is PD's way of letting the lower ranks get payback on those Dr.S folks that used to run us over like misplaced pylons...
.
So, joke over.
I 100% agree penalty system needs be the same for all (and in the beginning I was holding Dr.S to a higher standard, but, watching the videos... mmm... no longer doing so)
So, from videos, seems Dr.S is a little harsh, good intentions PD, but... need to let the reigns out just a hair... and, at lower Dr. is much, much too lenient.
Needs to be a happy medium, and, "I" hope it lands on the strict side of the equation... for all.

And to be clear, I'm ok with strict, but if they are going to go apportioning blame, they need to do better.

 

[cleanLX]

And to be clear, I'm ok with strict, but if they are going to go apportioning blame, they need to do better.

100% agree, equal across the board.
I've been reading your various posts on how "blame" is theoretically possible (and you admit still not 100%, but much improved), and knowing your past relative experience, hope PD is reading and considering options/possibilities.
BTW, thanks for all your insight regarding game development, and what may be possible... fingers crossed implemented.

Sidetrack...
It's nice that so many on this board are pushing towards a more "sim" experience...
I put my hard earned $ into this console (love the reality of the graphics/lighting), and, am not ready to jump to the pc world... but if things don't improve I may just go that route.
Holding out on pc, because this GTS does indeed keep getting better... even if though there is a bump in the road for the fast guys right now... fingers crossed it all gets worked out.

 

[polizei]

EXCEPT, I have been penalized while accelerating through a corner and the following car tried to under cut me and clipped my rear, which is a clear case where I should never have been penalized. I also got hit today (and several times) by a car that was out of control and took a penalty.

Also, remember that your relative DR is a factor. A higher DR rank will make you more likely to get the penalty.

Whatever it's doing is garbage and needs to be redone because it is FAR too inconsistent to be of any use. If you want people to behave themselves, everyone needs to know the rules of the game. When everyone plays by different rules, there are in essence, no rules.

That's the main problem, IMO, the inconsistency.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Dumping dirty drivers to lower SR is having the opposite effect. I've encountered several dirty C/S and B/S drivers today that were formerly A/S. Shielded by their penalty immunity they are bulldozing through the field. Bathurst is more like a battle arena atm. They still set lap times like DR.A drivers and have the speed, and since SR points get a big boost at the lower SR levels it takes pretty much no time to come back to SR.S with a few easy poles and wins. I have been dive bombed twice today by the same person, both times he got send to SR.A, yet doesn't stay there long.

It's too easy to gain SR. Plus lowering DR is now a shield from penalties while matchmaking is putting them right back with the people trying to race clean. Next room is up, S/S to D/S again, with one suspiciously fast qualifying time for a B/S driver ahead of 4 A/S.

Lol I just got hit 3 times from behind, then 3 more hits from a bad track re-entry causing a chain reaction, had to stop twice for 8 sec penalties, -38 SR in one race. Down to SR.B now. Perhaps the racing is cleaner there. Looks like I get to start from second place now instead of mid chaos. What a failure this new penalty system is.

And yes as expected. I start 2nd, get an easy win with 19 sec lead. The other A/B driver that started on pole turned out to be a glitch and has used the reset to 50K bug twice to then decent back to DR.B. He left as A/D after the race, the race which was all red ratings except me and second place. I got the clean race bonus +7 SR at SR.B, it will take a while to get that 38 SR back.

Next race up, C/A on pole with 2:03 qualifying time! It's a smurf account. I had one of the best duels in a long time for 2nd place with another smurf account. Clean, side by side through corners, backing out at the right time, perfect. Except he slipped up once in front of me and I touched his bumper while braking to avoid him, no damage (actually he benefited) no SR Down, no penalty, yet no SR gain either at the end, odd.

 

[Robben]

It's too easy to gain SR.

This. I had a race the night before last on Blue Moon, got boxed in under the tunnel and had several quickfire contacts... got 11.something worth of penalties, orange SR, then finished the race with blue. I was really expecting at least a red and potentially a downgrade for that amount of penalty seconds. Although it would have been unfair as the penalties were unwarranted and only caused by me giving space to the racers in front, it seems like an inconsistent approach... like the system is trying to get everyone at SR/S but (in dishing out penalties which result in lower finishes) deducting DR.

 

[zaxs]

Here are two races, and look what pd is doing to fair racer:



Edit 2 : first race at min 13, second at 33


Edit


There was number of doubtful penalties I got until now, but this is just too much.

Almost every my race is on my channel and there is nothing to hide, Fair Play first was always my moto, but I barely finished second race, bcs PAIN, pain in my heart - real pain and emotional one...
But I stayed Fair to last meter.

 

[Mirror_man]

You talking to me? (see below)



Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver. My favourite character and film by far.

We'd better stop with the off topic stuff...

Why??? Can we be arrested for that???

I loved that movie. dude... (Who did´nt??)

I doubt it.

If everyone was racing under the same rules as SR-S, 99% of the Sport Mode players would be DQ'd from their races.

Most probably some... but not all...

Dumping dirty drivers to lower SR is having the opposite effect. I've encountered several dirty C/S and B/S drivers today that were formerly A/S. Shielded by their penalty immunity they are bulldozing through the field. Bathurst is more like a battle arena atm. They still set lap times like DR.A drivers and have the speed, and since SR points get a big boost at the lower SR levels it takes pretty much no time to come back to SR.S with a few easy poles and wins. I have been dive bombed twice today by the same person, both times he got send to SR.A, yet doesn't stay there long.

It's too easy to gain SR. Plus lowering DR is now a shield from penalties while matchmaking is putting them right back with the people trying to race clean. Next room is up, S/S to D/S again, with one suspiciously fast qualifying time for a B/S driver ahead of 4 A/S.

Lol I just got hit 3 times from behind, then 3 more hits from a bad track re-entry causing a chain reaction, had to stop twice for 8 sec penalties, -38 SR in one race. Down to SR.B now. Perhaps the racing is cleaner there. Looks like I get to start from second place now instead of mid chaos. What a failure this new penalty system is.

And yes as expected. I start 2nd, get an easy win with 19 sec lead. The other A/B driver that started on pole turned out to be a glitch and has used the reset to 50K bug twice to then decent back to DR.B. He left as A/D after the race, the race which was all red ratings except me and second place. I got the clean race bonus +7 SR at SR.B, it will take a while to get that 38 SR back.

Next race up, C/A on pole with 2:03 qualifying time! It's a smurf account. I had one of the best duels in a long time for 2nd place with another smurf account. Clean, side by side through corners, backing out at the right time, perfect. Except he slipped up once in front of me and I touched his bumper while braking to avoid him, no damage (actually he benefited) no SR Down, no penalty, yet no SR gain either at the end, odd.

One of my suggestions is to multiply by X10 (probably X100 would be to much) the SR point range would become from 1 to 999 or 1000, and still keep same bonus (adding to SR) as now ,but also multiply penalizations (subtracting SR) like for.. X 5... (an example) that would make any change on SR last more time and make it harder to recover...

 

[kevlar_hybrid]

Here are two races, and look what pd is doing to fair racer:




Edit


There was number of doubtful penalties I got until now, but this is just too much.

Almost every my race is on my channel and there is nothing to hide, Fair Play first was always my moto, but I barely finished second race, bcs PAIN, pain in my heart - real pain and emotional one...
But I stayed Fair to last meter.

Dude, 41minute long video? Yeah, not going to watch through all that for the highlight reel....
Edit it down to the penalty incidents?

 

[djidane57]

slight contact should not be penalized , come on nobody loses time its just very close racing but hey everybody gets penalties for fighting hard!