Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

[kilesa4568]

This harsher form of penalties looks good enough to get me back into doing the Sport races. It should rein in some of the aggression at least.

 

[Draggon]

Well, I just tried it and I got hit with the stupid Yellow Flag penalty that's STILL in the game even though they should NEVER have implemented it.

How did I get this penalty you ask? The usual flagrant violation way. A car spun causing a yellow flag, I passed the ghost and two cars passed me under the yellow.

Yellow flags...
Seems like PD throws the yellow flag for the first car to loose control... and if yellow is out, and that car is ghosted, you are in the good.

This morning at Tokyo I started last on purpose to avoid turn 1. Carnage as expected, and I once again got penalties for the ghosted cars I passed. I guess I should have just stopped and waited until everyone had regained their composure. That's ridiculous. I'll have to try it more, but I'm spending more time trying to avoid penalties from other's wrecks and looking in my mirror trying to avoid getting hit it's not a lot of fun at the moment.

 

[eDirtyTati]

That sounds pretty positive.
But I still wonder what happens when someone crashes into you from behind.
First both racers would get a negative SR.
Do they both now also get a negative DR?

What happens is you still get screwed by PD's penalty system. Just happened to me twice in the hairpin at Blue Moon. Both square hits from the back. Both resulted in huge penalties (3 seconds each), which then began to grow when I didn't serve them in time. Naturally, I lost two positions when I slowed to serve the penalties I hadn't earned.

Editing to add that despite these penalties, i finished four positions up and in the top 10, but still LOST DR points overall. So no, I wouldn't call this an improvement. No one asked for this. We asked for better collision fault detection, not to be thrice bent over for someone else's mistakes. I'll be adding video of the two incidents to this post.

In the vid, you will see the first hit, both from my perspective (obviously, I'm eDirtyTati, and the other driver's). The second one is from the other driver only. I overshot it a little, so had to go back to view it. They had to slow down immediately to take their penalty, I took mine a little later on the front straight. I would like to add that I don't think it was done on purpose, so this isn't to bash the other driver. They just should've braked a little earlier. This is in the top split. I'm A/S with 99/99 SR and there are S/S drivers in this lobby. No one should have less than 95/99 SR here. So again, probably not a dirty driver.

 

[dabz343]

Perhaps GTS could benefit from adding an introductory section on penalties, much like Circuit Experience. At least it would clarify what is and isn't allowed under their system...subsequently, it would demand that PD have a solid strategy on the rules that govern Sport.

Right now it seems a bit haphazard and reactionary.

 

[DGXR]

I haven't run a sport mode race in nearly 2 months, it's not worth the frustration due to careless drivers and this penalty system. When I first got this game, I won my first 2 sport mode races (very exciting!) and then the ranking system put me into a more competitive level. Haven't won a single race since.

If everybody drives "properly" nobody will have penalties.

Also, when trying to find an even balance, it is often best to work to outer extremities and work towards a middle balance. We may see more tweaks making the system a bit more forgiving, but if they do, dirty driving will no doubt return.

Watch where you are driving. Do not take liberties. Do not "expect" anybody on track to do what YOU think. Expect the unexpected and you will stay penalty free.

I welcome the changes to be honest, because the dirty driving in high ranks has kept me off sport mode for the best part of a week.

Expect the unexpected? Seriously? If my driving is based on other drivers doing what a good driver would not do, I will always be at the back of the pack: Oh no, that car might brake early, I will slow down early to avoid contact... and lose time. That other car might swing wide and not allow room for me, I will slow down to avoid contact/going off-track... and lose more time. See what I mean?
I'm OK being at the back of the pack due to my own mistakes, or bad luck/bad timing, or (occasionally) another driver's mistake that caught me. But being at the back of the pack on a regular basis because of what you call "proper" driving... always anticipating what might happen and not what is actually happening? No.

Placing well in a race requires the driver to take certain calculated risks while still trying to respect other racers' lines and positions. I thought every racing fan knew this. If that means holding your line while another driver figures out what he's going to do, then so be it. You don't place podium by playing it safe. And you won't place well at all by attempting passes only when other drivers make mistakes. Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating a "win at all costs" approach to driving. I understand that many drivers are better than me... I will not win many races, that is for sure What I'm saying is, anyone wanting to place well needs to have a certain amount of aggression. Look for opportunities and make your move! Often the result will be unsuccessful and you will "look bad" (etiquette) but I don't know of any respectful, clean, talented driver in the real world who doesn't put himself in a precarious position every now and then. You see an opportunity, you calculate the risks, and sometimes you go for it. This is exactly how the phrase "rubbing is racing" came to be, and it is true.

 

[polizei]

This game just turned into a big wussy fest. I m alright with punishing derp behaviour but PD doesnt seem to know that rubbing is racing. If I get a penalty as soon as my car is in the same zip code area as my opponents car, that sucks the fun right out of racing.

Especially when lag can apparently confuse the algorithm. Someone leave the room, instant penalty...-_-

 

[kjeldsen]

So far i am a fan, did a 100% event free Race C with no one touching and everyone being clean except for the few that had to serve their punishment.
I prefer "to harsh" instead of the former system that could be played without to much effort, it also means that people will have to put in a proper Pole lap, and starting out in front will be an advantage since those behind you can not easily force their way passed you.

When everyone learns the punishment system we will see more races with contact, but it just won't be the same as before..

YEAH!

 

[wiretap07]

I just today got myself up to SR S, and the racing there is so so much better!!
Although you still get the odd **** lol

Thing is though, PD are trying to design a penalty system which will never be good enough, because it's only a game.
Some drivers dive into corners and try overtakes where they just clearly shouldn't even try, because if it goes wrong, oh well.

In the real world, you have fear and real consequences, and you just can't replicate that in a game.

But I do agree, the newer system does seem a little harsh, but hopefully forces people to be a bit more careful.

 

[Voodoovaj]

If the penalties are more restrictive than beneficial in the long run, I'm sure Polyphony will sort it out. As the saying goes, "you must crack a few eggs to make an omelette." And if penalties and racing clean isn't your thing, there's always the cops lobbies.

A strict penalty system is not how you stop people from crashing into each other. A stepped system of earning your way into faster cars is how you stop that. Right now, anyone old enough to turn on a PS4 can jump into a GR1 car and enter a race. Obviously, that person hasn't earned their way into that car. THAT is the problem with Sport Mode and the "dirty" driving.

The single player is structures this way FFS!!! You can't get into the higher tiers without experience, so why is this NOT the case where it matters most? The AI doesn't care if you crash into them. Have at it. Crash away!! But real players DO care, but instead PD decided to be inclusive and let anyone drive whatever they like. It's totally backwards.

If you look at gt6 dailes there are often close to 10,000 races for each event. That's plenty of players so I am not buying the notion that restrictions will mean less people playing online. Unfair punishment DOES stop people from playing online.

I have said it before, and I will say it again and again because it's an easy change to make (Because the features already exist in the server settings). Have a beginner race, an intermediate race, and an expert race. Everyone gets access to the A/Beginner race. Only DR B SR B drivers can get into Race B/Intermediate race. Only DR B SR S drivers and up can get into Race C. Race C is reserved for GR3 and higher. FIA races count as expert levels races as well.

Actually, GT6 was better organized in their dailies and GTS should go back to that system.

This immediately challenges less skilled drivers to improve without punishing everyone! I don't believe that any A level driver needed a more strict penalty system to help them out.

I can't be the only that noticed the drivers with the worst ratings are also the ones who complain the most about "dirty" drivers. Slow drivers are getting hit because they are slow and there needs to be a tiered set of races where you learn to be faster before getting into faster cars...you know, like in real life!

 

[Mirror_man]

The assumption you are making is that the people who have earned their way into a good rating are not already driving respectfully. Simply put, if you aren't already driving respectfully you won't earn a good rating.

Now, even when you drive respectfully, you're getting kicked in the teeth. How is that a good thing?

I´m very much more into the last "order" of your intervention,,, dude... Mainly the idea is... "to see if it´s still raining outside. don´t send a cat..." and don´t be afraid to catch some rain. tooo (by the way..) it wont eat your bones.. nor your flesh...

 

[Qyn]

As a few people ahead of me suggested, an academy for some basic track rules would surely benefit races as a whole.

I think this would've definitely helped if implemented at time of release. Just like circuit experience, and driving school it might have taught a lot of newbies the right way to race. Should've had to complete a etiquette academy to participate in sport mode instead of just watching a couple of videos.

 

[true_kiat]

7 lap race, got a 4 second penalty on lap 2, didn't try to shake it off, 4 second penalty until the end, no growing penalty whatsoever.

 

[Mr616]

I've just had my first race, Gr3 at the new Bluemoon. Super clean and respectful driving and great racing. Best race I've had in the past week or so. I didn't incur and penalties and got clean race.

Finished 3rd, just so you know I wasn't dawdling round jumping out of the way of everybody.

So far so good Hope to be in for an enjoyable night.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I´m very much more into the last "order" of your intervention,,, dude... Mainly the idea is... "to see if it´s still raining outside. don´t send a cat..." and don´t be afraid to catch some rain. tooo (by the way..) it wont eat your bones.. nor your flesh...

I haven't taken enough narcotics today to understand what this post even means, but I'm curious what your ratings are.

7 lap race, got a 4 second penalty on lap 2, didn't try to shake it off, 4 second penalty until the end, no growing penalty whatsoever.

Apparently it only grows if it is in excess of 5 seconds.

 

[AverageRacer]

Overall I think the new penalty system is for the best. I have already had and seen others' races severely damaged by having to run down penalties, and that's how it should be. It was too easy burn them off previously, now you know if you get a penalty you're gonna lose valuable time so it does give that incentive to be as clean as possible. Yes every now and then you'll get a harsh one but we can't expect perfection.

 

[nissman]

Sport mode is close to unplayable and the penatly system is a complete joke.

Did two race today and got a drop of DR and SR not by my fault whatsoever. In first race I got just a gentle tap from behind on the oval and I got a 3 sec penatly. After I served my penatly a car infront of me suddenly stops on the racing line and starts serving his penatly, obviously I run into him from behind as I had nowhere to go basicly and get a 10 sec penatly! Started race in 4th and am now in 14th completly not by my fault but because the penatly system is complete nonsense.

At this point I am not doing anymore sport races untill they adjust the penalties so you can atleats race in same zip code as your opponent.

 

[Mr616]

I haven't run a sport mode race in nearly 2 months, it's not worth the frustration due to careless drivers and this penalty system. When I first got this game, I won my first 2 sport mode races (very exciting!) and then the ranking system put me into a more competitive level. Haven't won a single race since.



Expect the unexpected? Seriously? If my driving is based on other drivers doing what a good driver would not do, I will always be at the back of the pack: Oh no, that car might brake early, I will slow down early to avoid contact... and lose time. That other car might swing wide and not allow room for me, I will slow down to avoid contact/going off-track... and lose more time. See what I mean?
I'm OK being at the back of the pack due to my own mistakes, or bad luck/bad timing, or (occasionally) another driver's mistake that caught me. But being at the back of the pack on a regular basis because of what you call "proper" driving... always anticipating what might happen and not what is actually happening? No.

Placing well in a race requires the driver to take certain calculated risks while still trying to respect other racers' lines and positions. I thought every racing fan knew this. If that means holding your line while another driver figures out what he's going to do, then so be it. You don't place podium by playing it safe. And you won't place well at all by attempting passes only when other drivers make mistakes. Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating a "win at all costs" approach to driving. I understand that many drivers are better than me... I will not win many races, that is for sure What I'm saying is, anyone wanting to place well needs to have a certain amount of aggression. Look for opportunities and make your move! Often the result will be unsuccessful and you will "look bad" (etiquette) but I don't know of any respectful, clean, talented driver in the real world who doesn't put himself in a precarious position every now and then. You see an opportunity, you calculate the risks, and sometimes you go for it. This is exactly how the phrase "rubbing is racing" came to be, and it is true.

It's all about risk assessment and the old system let you try multiple risky moves with no consequence. Many of those moves would be unsuccessful as you said, resulting in accidents that should've been avoided.

Now there is a more real risk of penalties, so throwing caution to the wind on nearly everybody you catch on track and try a "risky" overtake is less. Once the overtake is initiated the defender will feel obliged to not squeeze or block because they to run the risk of a penalty.

Safe doesn't mean slow.

Put me in a true competitive enviroment with something on the line, against racers who I've raced with before, and I'll be a lot tougher on track. In public sport mode daily races, nah. I enjoy close clean racing. Not being nudged, squeezed and bump passed etc.

 

[Mirror_man]

Though probably not that popular right now or for the next short time, I would like to thank Polyphony Digital for working to constantly improve the experience they offer. As the new game market almost requires a title to be supported for some time after release, I feel I have gotten a great value out of my purchase.

So, I haven't been home to try out the new updates yet; however, I feel a more stern ruling was definitely required in the Sport mode if Polyphony is truly seeking the goal of a racing simulator. Online drivers are too often and prevalently making excessive/aggressive behaivors which are not commonplace on the track in the real world, thus making the game experience less authentic. Although I imagine most players could still be using a controller (like myself) to drive a car around a track, it should be safe to assume such people are interested in a legitimate race format nonetheless.

Obviously racing is highly competitve and people do not drive like a pack of lemmings, so feelings may get hurt, bumps will be had. Though, it seems a major component to the entire penalty system is nearly completely missing. I do believe the increased strictness was required, however the system is nearly useless to people who are unfamiliar with track etiquette and basic rules. Drivers make mistakes in the real world, but they are trained in how to execute a recovery. The game gives us nearly nothing for this, and thus an orderly race can quickly become catastrophic for other competitors. As a few people ahead of me suggested, an academy for some basic track rules would surely benefit races as a whole.

If the penalties are more restrictive than beneficial in the long run, I'm sure Polyphony will sort it out. As the saying goes, "you must crack a few eggs to make an omelette." And if penalties and racing clean isn't your thing, there's always the cops lobbies.

I find your message absolutely correct.. and very honestly too what I think is that it should be added to the game .. instead of those couple of videos that one sees and "Bam!!!!.. Yeaaahh!!! it´s Sport Mode Everybody!!, a special phase with ..a Manual of Etiquette and rules for racing on line.. that everybody has to read. follow by a series of multiple challenges where racing against others situation apply, and you´ll have to go through with GOLD for every challenge... ,in enough quantity to cover EVERY racing situation and with enough difficulty to force racing near to maximum speed (against a good and clean AI...) and only then you were allowed to start running Sport Mode!!!

This should be implemented for ALL players... even the "elders of the game" as they are just like the others... "humans and mortals"... to keep on playing and to keep their previous DR and SR points, before being allowed to get back into to the game...

Annoying?? It should be... for most... but I believe that the Top GTS online Players would pass those challenges in a zippy.... so they would not need to wait much... and for some days. (probably) they would have no wacky racers to annoy them... lol...

And it would refresh and attain the mentality that should be there from the very (wrong) beginning!!!

 

[dabz343]

After I served my penatly a car infront of me suddenly stops on the racing line and starts serving his penatly, obviously I run into him from behind as I had nowhere to go basicly and get a 10 sec penatly!

Do we really need a dedicated thread on how to serve a penalty? PD really needs to think comprehensively about adjustments to their system and how it affects the racing. Ghosting would suffice in this case...think about how new adjustments will be implemented PD.

 

[Balwerk]

As player who almost always doing aggressive racing (not that dirty nah just little bump) I found new update somewhat find with me. I still can doing some bump on low speed (I get some penalty from hard hitting other tho) on even divebomb I even doesn't get yellow SR on every race I joined tonight. People on room is more safe driving which is good, less crazy ass people today maybe tomorrow they starting back lol.

Two thing I have concerned so far is start and penalty. Rolling start for now is too far compare with last day before patch, and for penalty how to get rid this one? I mean like this, before patch I can shake it up by just doing use lower speed on straight or very late accel after corner but now I must use full stop to doing that and that's really not effective at all.

 

[sturk0167]

I just did a bunch of Tokyo races, and boy those time penalties sure are harsh!

 

[Mirror_man]

Sport mode is close to unplayable and the penatly system is a complete joke.

Did two race today and got a drop of DR and SR not by my fault whatsoever. In first race I got just a gentle tap from behind on the oval and I got a 3 sec penatly. After I served my penatly a car infront of me suddenly stops on the racing line and starts serving his penatly, obviously I run into him from behind as I had nowhere to go basicly and get a 10 sec penatly! Started race in 4th and am now in 14th completly not by my fault because the penatly system is complete nonsense.

At this point I am not doing anymore sport races untill they adjust the penalties so you can atleats race in same zip code as your opponent.

In this case. I consider that it´s very important that a car dropping his speed like that one you´ve bumped into.. should automatically be ghosted!! Of Course!!! That is also essential for the new Game Mode Type (let´s call it this way) to apply!

 

[djidane57]

looks like penalties are handed out like candy , just did a race on the blue moon variant , my god i gained like 7 places by just staying on the track and avoiding accidents , felt like half the field were slowing down!

 

[Mirror_man]

Perhaps GTS could benefit from adding an introductory section on penalties, much like Circuit Experience. At least it would clarify what is and isn't allowed under their system...subsequently, it would demand that PD have a solid strategy on the rules that govern Sport.

Right now it seems a bit haphazard and reactionary.

Just wrote about this. more or less... a while ago!

 

[djidane57]

just watched some backmarker trying to get revenge on the guy who took him out at the start ...seems like he didnt read the patch notes he failed miserably against the wall

 

[thevo]

This is WAYYY to strict for the SR S people. Im hardly touching and getting penaltys where MAYBE I should just get a down SR. I mean seriously this isint real life. I cant control a car going 100+mph down to an inch. Im legit afraid to try and overtake now.

 

[Mirror_man]

I haven't taken enough narcotics today to understand what this post even means, but I'm curious what your ratings are.



Apparently it only grows if it is in excess of 5 seconds.

Maybe you should... if it would make you happier.. it would help you surely... Ratings: Just B B .. nothing special... but comming from previous C and... A (a week ago) ..

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Ugh why not let the penalties stand until the end. Instead of looking out for slowed drivers before the finish line, now you have to look out for them at every corner exit. End of slow in fast out strategy.

I assume it's different for different SR classes as it seems people are having different experiences with the new system.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Just B B .. nothing special... but comming from C and... A (a week ago) ..

EXACTLY what I am saying. It's the lesser drivers who think this system is great. I'm A/S and it's terrible.

I just ran a second race. Got hit from behind and forced off track into the barrier (turn two Blue Moon). 2 second penalty to me. Instead of finishing 6th, I get dropped to 9th. My Dr drops with it. Two races in a row where I am punished for no wrong doing.

Before, I would have been grumpy, but I would have found a way to drive off the penalty and at least salvage a finishing position. Instead, they have piled on a more punitive solution without resolving the problem of punishing the innocent.

There is no good reason to race in the dailies now. It's too risky., I will wait until the end of the month or whenever the next fix comes.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Placing well in a race requires the driver to take certain calculated risks while still trying to respect other racers' lines and positions. I thought every racing fan knew this. If that means holding your line while another driver figures out what he's going to do, then so be it. You don't place podium by playing it safe. And you won't place well at all by attempting passes only when other drivers make mistakes. Don't misunderstand, I am not advocating a "win at all costs" approach to driving. I understand that many drivers are better than me... I will not win many races, that is for sure What I'm saying is, anyone wanting to place well needs to have a certain amount of aggression. Look for opportunities and make your move! Often the result will be unsuccessful and you will "look bad" (etiquette) but I don't know of any respectful, clean, talented driver in the real world who doesn't put himself in a precarious position every now and then. You see an opportunity, you calculate the risks, and sometimes you go for it. This is exactly how the phrase "rubbing is racing" came to be, and it is true.

"Iconic movie quotes aside, rubbing is not racing. You’re not supposed to make contact with other cars and many racing series have explicit rules against car contact. The common 13/13 rule states that any at-fault contact with another car puts you on probation for 13 months. If you get into another such incident during probation, it gets you suspended for 13 months." - YouSuckAtRacing.Com

Literally every real world message board I've read regards car-to-car contact as a severe infraction that risks the lives of everyone on the track. Everything you're saying is completely contrary to everything I've read about race safety.

The only reason you can begin to even take your position on this debate is because we're talking about a video game. If this were real world racing, your perspective would have put you in a grave by now.

High level world class racing is an entirely different scene where people are operating at such a refined level of car control that seemingly aggressive moves are actually well reasoned risks taken between extremely capable drivers. Gran Turismo is not that.