Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

[Outspacer]

Personally I like the move towards stricter penalties, although the sensitivity may have been pushed slightly too high in this update. There was a problem that started coming up near of the beta period where it was too easy to gain SR and everyone started clumping in the upper S-rank, even though they weren't really qualified for it. It sounds like a similar problem was brewing in the release version, though I haven't done Sport Mode frequently as of late so I can't know for sure. What I do know is that the easier it is to lose SR the better, because it keeps the dirty drivers shoved down the ranks. I know it's frustrating to get your rank tanked by a rammer, but if you consider the fact that they'll be doing the same to other drivers and racking up penalties to their own rating they'll either A). stop getting matched with you from all the penalties they get from bumping other drivers, or B) they'll be forced to clean up their act because they keep their SR rank up.

While it is frustrating to get a drop in your rank from the extra penalties, realize during this time the system will be filtering out the bad apples and leaving the upper ranks for more clean.

The SR system was already filtering out the bad apples pretty well, apart from E and S being over-full: http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?stat_preset=sr_distribution_sliced. Biasing that lot downwards won't help much overall - it will bunch the average with the real dirt.

So what that probably means is that SR was already going up and down more than the scale could cope with. Therefore the solution would be to make SR harder to gain and harder to lose. Imagine squashing that graph so it fills the middle half, then spreading out S and E over the top and bottom quarters.... classic bell-shaped distribution.

edit: adding a grab of the graph since it will change, with purple marks to indicate what might be a better distribution:

 

[dabz343]

Matchmaking is terrible or everyone is too afraid to race.

I'm on my second account for testing the penalty system.

 

[Voodoovaj]

But please explain to me how your proposal is making any difference? Unless i am wrong, you will be in the front in pretty much every race where you encounter slower drivers (below A) since they will be slower. And it will be a S race because that is your rating.

The difference is that by forcing players to start slow and build speed, they learn lines and braking points. I have maintained since launch that most "dirty" drivers are not actually dirty. They are simply lacking skill.

It's a moot point for me in particular. In a room full of A's and S's everyone knows what they are supposed to do, but this is racing and in racing, stuff happens that you can't control. Instead of embracing that, PD has taken the philosophy that every race will be a perfect ballet of cars with no incidents what so ever, therefore all penalties are deserved.

The important take away is that all the poor elements of the system are still in place with none of the saving grace. I don't see how this is an improvement in any way, shape, or form. They addressed the yellow flag penalty because now it's 2 seconds instead of 5. Obviously they know the bug exists but are incapable or unwilling to fix it. The correct choice would have been to remove the penalty altogether.

This change will serve to reduce participation in the dailies and that's the last thing the dailies needed.

Matchmaking is terrible or everyone is too afraid to race.

I am going to go with the latter.

 

[cleanLX]

First race I did after the update. I pass 2 ghosted cars that spun and received no penalty. thankfully this was a clean race.

You passed a single ghosted car that had spun, on 2 separate occasions.
Different circumstances than what you get a penalty for... when 2 or more cars are all ghosted/wrecking in a single incident.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

A lot of conjecture and sweeping proclamations here for a sample size of one or two videos posted and one day of post-patch racing.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

3 races (B) went from SR 76 to SR 99. Behavior still seems the same, way too easy to regain SR as there should have been a lot more red in the races I've entered. What is harder is dodging all the slow cars after corners, which then aggressively try to overtake you again, so dodge them again.

 

[Nico_Ble99]

Just did two Sport mode Gr.3 races. First one: passed a ghosting car, the car goes solid at exactly the wrong time and place and sends me into a spin. Result: I get a four second penalty.

Second one: The person in front of me gets with two wheels on the grass at the exit of the first double apex right hander, I go to the outside and even brake so I can prevent a shunt. Result: We both touch doors so softly, you could compare it to petting your dog. It was barely noticeable. And I get a four second penalty, again.

As some people said; it's good that the whole algorythm is more strict now, but it still needs some good work in some cases.

 

[dabz343]

The difference is that by forcing players to start slow and build speed, they learn lines and braking points. I have maintained since launch that most "dirty" drivers are not actually dirty. They are simply lacking skill.

What is harder is dodging all the slow cars after corners, which then aggressively try to overtake you again, so dodge them again.

It's a compounding problem that reflects an unstable core. A penalty system is not engineered to teach racecraft, but to enforce it.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Well I just had 2 nonsense penalties on the final turn back onto the oval. I brake a little early to go fast out and not hit the wall like the majority of people. First I get rear ended, SR Down +4 sec penalty. I move over to the inside and let go of the gas (no brake), he hits me again, +2 sec added. I lose 3 places.

Second time, I brake a little later yet the car behind me is still too late and now shoves me into the wall using me as a guard rail. SR Down +5 sec penalty. I slow down again and finish last.

They got penalties as well, yet I guess just lost them somewhere else. It takes forever to scrub them on the straight. Punish the victim harder, why not.

 

[Pennzoil23]

The first one was a slight tap, the 2nd one i thought i was close but didnt touch, i guess lag may have caused the game to see a touch.

I posted this in the other thread, but is appropriate here also.

I think the new system may be too sensitive. I do like the idea behind it though.

LF , are you at SS rank ? I got the same problem as you , and also I was hit by someone who too late brake at first the corner , he made me spun and I got 5 sec penalty , it only happen on Daily race B , then I tried race C , the penalty system back to normal
And my friend at rank CS , his race B don’t have our problem

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

“It’s way too easy to gain SR, fix the penalty system Kaz you lazy !##*%*#^#!!”

Several weeks later…

“Now it’s way too easy to get penalties, what have you done Kaz you &$@%#^!”

 

[.star.]

You passed a single ghosted car that had spun, on 2 separate occasions.
Different circumstances than what you get a penalty for... when 2 or more cars are all ghosted/wrecking in a single incident.

Yes. Before in random previous races even if its a single car I would randomly get a 10 second penalty for passing it. Its so hard to really get a solid set of rules or factors that will tell you what a penalty will be or could be. Since I feel SR is so inconsistent I wind up not caring as much about it, I do my best to keep my racing clean but not the end of the world if my SR drops.

 

[Mirror_man]

With time this will be a blessing in improving the overall GT Sport race experience. Give it time!!

Unfortunately the vocal minority will complain and even make up fake scenarios of how they were penalized without cause. Eventually it will go back to bump-a-cars.

Watch ou!! here´s a Voodoo Doll hanging around... and arguing like mad and acusing the usage of ilegal drugs those who don´t agree with him!!! And no.. I ain´t into drugs. I don´t even smoke!!

 

[TomPyke]

Just done 5 of the C race

Early indications is the penalty system is working better. I got one 2 second penalty, and it was a lot harder to lose, which is good. It was a deserved penalty, I out braked myself.

Had some glances with people, and some fairly robust knocks, usually when different lines in corners and sort of turn into each others' space, and saw no penalties. Both cars carried on the battle and I enjoyed that far better than someone getting a penalty. Its racing, people will touch.

I'm racing BS so people tend to try to be clean, and for my first 5 races, it looks like an improvement. But lets see...

 

[Mirror_man]

Or you could just adapt to the system, and drive more safely.
Everybody isn't going to have their DR go down drastically, some people who will be better suited to driving in stricter racing environments will have their DR go up.

Yep!! Exactly... but Voodoo... is something else... some kinda Magic. probably.. and he doesnt do Drugs!! That is essential!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

“It’s way too easy to gain SR, fix the penalty system Kaz you lazy !##*%*#^#!!”

Several weeks later…

“Now it’s way too easy to get penalties, what have you done Kaz you &$@%#^!”

It's still too easy to gain SR. SR Down is the same, I haven't seen any difference yet. You just get a time penalty with it now...

 

[I-Runner]

First race this evening with the updated "rulez" ....i starter the race with B/S , i finished the race in 2nd position i had the 50% clean bonus too ... But my status was B/A ... ..

IR

 

[Mirror_man]

Just went thru the thread. Now I haven't raced for about a week because of work and household commitments but I'm liking what I've read about the changes so far. The first thing that crossed my mind was they should have enabled the damage model as well. I'm sure it would make people even more calculated about their moves on the track.

EXACTLYYYYYYYYYYYY!!! 1 mii´lion claps!!!!! (or somethinl like itt. lol) I´ve already put out that idea.. together with an added penalizatio system where money was deducted from your pocket.. even allowing the cash amout to go under 0.. (negative) ... to pay for their own and the others cars damages!! As the damage woudl remain after racing! Except for others damageg by the player . where the money to pay for rpairs would come out from the hiting player!

 

[dabz343]

Yes. Before in random previous races even if its a single car I would randomly get a 10 second penalty for passing it. Its so hard to really get a solid set of rules or factors that will tell you what a penalty will be or could be.

Could a post race analysis feature help demystify? I would welcome this as well as deeper telemetry.

 

[Mirror_man]

I'm on my second account for testing the penalty system.

And???

 

[IAMDOODLEBUG]

This needs serious tweaking. Just did race b, room mainly S DR with a few A's. Not the greatest quali time at 1.07.3xx but mid pack. Lap 1 the guy behind broke slightly late and tapped me marginally, giving me a 5 sec penalty. Another non fault graze later and I'm up to 8 seconds. I slow down to clear the time and start afresh towards the back. Reach the group in front, make the faintest of contacts through the final turn, no disruption to the guy in front, 5 second penalty. End result for what was a mildly boisterous race was a loss of 1000 DR and a downgrade to SR A from 99! What a joke. Great job PD

 

[dabz343]

And???

I'm delaying judgement for now, need to run more races to decode how the new system behaves. Going to run the FIA races first.

 

[tofuhero]

Can someone explain the rationale for PD allowing people to scrub off penalties at all? It seems like all it does is disrupt other drivers who have to maneuver around as the person slows down at random spots on the track. Why not just append the accumulated penalties at the end and adjust the placements accordingly?

 

[jimbo197]

I think where the new penalty system needs tweaking is that is it incredibly harsh if you get hit from behind.

It is the responsibility of the driver behind to make a safe pass as mentioned in the iRacing instructional video.

I had a 5 seconds penalty for getting tapped from behind at a very low speed and low relative speed collision

It didn't unsettle my car, I didn't lose or gain any time to speak of but both drivers received penalties?

 

[Voodoovaj]

“It’s way too easy to gain SR, fix the penalty system Kaz you lazy !##*%*#^#!!”

Several weeks later…

“Now it’s way too easy to get penalties, what have you done Kaz you &$@%#^!”

Those are two unrelated things though.

The system now punished you even more for being a victim. That's hardly the solution to SR being to easy to regain. In any event, the DR hit is a bigger issue here.

Sure, there is a chance that I can make it from start to finish without incident, but so far that hasn't been the case and I am not willing to risk my DR on the HOPE that nothing goes wrong in the race.

Making everyone a ghost and only giving penalties for cutting corners would have been a better solution than this.

Can someone explain the rationale for PD allowing people to scrub off penalties at all? It seems like all it does is disrupt other drivers who have to maneuver around as the person slows down at random spots on the track. Why not just append the accumulated penalties at the end and adjust the placements accordingly?

It seems to me that it was the solution to their problematic fault detection. If I got penalized for something that was not my fault (happens to all of us, all the time), allowing me to scrub the time off strategically lessens the impact.

I did three races today. In all three I was penalized for yellow flag passing, where the only people I passed were ghosts involved in the incident, and I was penalized for contact that I did not initiate.

1, 2, 3 strikes...I've seen enough to say it's not a good fix.

 

[dabz343]

Can someone explain the rationale for PD allowing people to scrub off penalties at all?

I had a 5 seconds penalty for getting tapped from behind at a very low speed and low relative speed collision

The only credible explanation I've heard is, the penalty system is not robust enough to recognize and determine fault in some instances. Thus, allowing drivers to run off their penalties without severity. Jimbo's situation illustrates this, but now no such luxury.

 

[tofuhero]

It seems to me that it was the solution to their problematic fault detection. If I got penalized for something that was not my fault (happens to all of us, all the time), allowing me to scrub the time off strategically lessens the impact.

From a holistic perspective what is a blessing for someone innocent is also a tool to enable bad behavior for those that don't care about clean racing and wish to exploit the system. Scrubbing off penalties has been a major problem for the SR system and has allowed people in SR S to punt people off with little retribution from the system. Making people serve them more quickly is an improvement in that way, but the road hazard aspect of serving them will probably be even worse now. I don't see how it's better than just adding the penalties at the end. The bad drivers would still get a higher penalty amount than clean drivers that might get a mistake penalty.

 

[Voodoovaj]

From a holistic perspective what is a blessing for someone innocent is also a tool to enable bad behavior for those that don't care about clean racing and wish to exploit the system. Scrubbing off penalties has been a major problem for the SR system and has allowed people in SR S to punt people off with little retribution from the system. Making people serve them more quickly is an improvement in that way, but the road hazard aspect of serving them will probably be even worse now. I don't see how it's better than just adding the penalties at the end. The bad drivers would still get a higher penalty amount than clean drivers that might get a mistake penalty.

They've implemented a double punitive fix though. More penalties and lessened ability to deal with the penalties.

whatevs. I'm sure I won't be the only one walking away from Sport Mode for a while.

 

[Outspacer]

"In a collision between two cars, a penalty will now be added to the Driver Rating (DR) as well as incurring a Time Penalty depending on the situation"

I've only monitored a couple of Daily races (B) so far, can't see any sign of new DR penalties yet, which is puzzling (but good if they mis-stated that). One of the races certainly had plenty of bumps, some red SRs at the end, and time penalties handed out. Possibly even saw the disqualification of a laggy player (his SR was -10 at the end) - does it say something other than DNF if it disqualifies someone?

 

[kilesa4568]

I think there's a lot of knee jerk reactions to the new penalties in this thread. Yes, they're harsh but they're also educational. It's supposed to be a non contact game and the new rules are using a sledgehammer to get that point across.

It's also only the first day of them but if you're as innocent as you say you are, you're probably going to level back up quicker than the people who gave you the penalty. If you don't, perhaps you're not as clean as you say you are or you're not looking hard enough for a developing incident. Again, educational, as you have to drive with even more care.

Why not give it a chance and see if it balances itself out?