Just Raced Under The New Algorithms and Rules

[Mirror_man]

Just B B .. nothing special... but comming from C and... A (a week ago) ..

EXACTLY what I am saying. It's the lesser drivers who think this system is great. I'm A/S and it's terrible.

I just ran a second race. Got hit from behind and forced off track into the barrier (turn two Blue Moon). 2 second penalty to me. Instead of finishing 6th, I get dropped to 9th. My Dr drops with it. Two races in a row where I am punished for no wrong doing.

Before, I would have been grumpy, but I would have found a way to drive off the penalty and at least salvage a finishing position. Instead, they have piled on a more punitive solution without resolving the problem of punishing the innocent.

There is no good reason to race in the dailies now. It's too risky., I will wait until the end of the month or whenever the next fix comes.

Voodoo Dude... The problem is that this change will take time to implement on the mind and attitude of most of the players... it will only work that way... it´s like reinstalling the death penalty... and specially for lesser crimes... Crime would only diminish after a big number of executions... after general people really begun to be afraid to step out of the line... and also may be .. condemned to death... just like in here..

Of course this is the easier way... (stupid as it may be..) and maybe top players take risks more than the above grade like me when playing the game... and that is why they are being punished... who knows?? Karma is not exactly a blessing for must of us... The real upgrade would be to create a truly minimum reliable judgement system, that would judge and decide who´s to blame in each contact during the game... That yes. would be a true blessing!!

 

[Sean Renon]

This is WAYYY to strict for the SR S people. Im hardly touching and getting penaltys where MAYBE I should just get a down SR. I mean seriously this isint real life. I cant control a car going 100+mph down to an inch. Im legit afraid to try and overtake now.

Isn't this how it should be?
Overtaking is a dangerous maneuver, it should be taken with the utmost caution.
I was growing a little tired of being tapped multiple times on every corner because the guy driving behind me was so eager to get a better exit than me so he could dive down the inside line.

 

[dabz343]

High level world class racing is an entirely different scene where people are operating at such a refined level of car control that seemingly aggressive moves are actually well reasoned risks taken between extremely capable drivers. Gran Turismo is not that.

Generally speaking, yes. But we are all trying to get to this level of racecraft IMO and PD is sitting on a credible opportunity to create context where drivers advance their knowledge and performance. If PD is serious about developing an esport platform, it may be wise to acknowledge the varying skill levels and begin to produce content that focuses on assisting driver progression.

GTS should continue to improve their penalty system to ensure solid stewardship, but why not also invest in educating novice drivers through unique content that is both fun and rewarding? Especially at the beginning of their career. iRacing has vids that provide a foundation for online racing, why doesn't PD at least do the same?

 

[Lion-Face]

EXACTLY what I am saying. It's the lesser drivers who think this system is great. I'm A/S and it's terrible.

Yeah i think this is the case. Im a S/S driver and the other drivers around me in that video i posted are A or S rank. I guess PD expects the higher rank drivers to perform better and therefore have harsher penalties, but they are too restrictive to have close racing.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Voodoo Dude... The problem is that this change will take time to implement on the mind and attitude of most of the players... it will only work that way... it´s like reinstalling the death penalty... and specially for lesser crimes... Crime would only diminish after a big number of executions... after general people really begun to be afraid to step out of the line... and also may be .. condemned to death... just like in here..

Of course this is the easier way... (stupid as it may be..) and maybe top players take risks more than the above grade like me when playing the game... and that is why they are being punished... who knows?? Karma is not exactly a blessing for must of us... The real upgrade would be to create a truly minimum reliable judgement system, that would judge and decide who´s to blame in each contact during the game... That yes. would be a true blessing!!

Stop doing drugs and posting.

Nope. Three races in a row where I get a penalty for no fault of my own. This time, crash in front of me. Crashing car comes across the track and hits me. I get 2 seconds for being hit, then 2 more seconds for passing under the yellow AGAIN!

This system is the worst possible implementation they could have made. I will preserve my DR/SR until they fix it.

 

[eDirtyTati]

Loosing Dr. for contact... and incurring a time penalty... double whammy... and, I don't understand it.
Incurring a time penalty is already going to effect your Dr... you slow down, and loose spots... done, yet, now there is a Dr. penalty on top of the time penalty...
So, what is the point of Sr. now?
Dr. seems to be trying to be both "pace" and "safety"... and, if so, what is the point of Sr.?

Think about it... it's absurd.

And why knock a Dr.S driver back to Dr.A or Dr.B... he/she still has Dr.S pace... Now they go back and get a couple wins against A/B drivers...
They have implemented the Dr. tanking system that many were already "gaming"...

What's next, loose Sr. if I fail to finish in the top 10?

Pace should be about pace...
Safety should be about safety...

This.

 

[dabz343]

Nope. Three races in a row where I get a penalty for no fault of my own. This time, crash in front of me. Crashing car comes across the track and hits me. I get 2 seconds for being hit, then 2 more seconds for passing under the yellow AGAIN!

Replays if you have them.

 

[sausageman54]

With time this will be a blessing in improving the overall GT Sport race experience. Give it time!!

Unfortunately the vocal minority will complain and even make up fake scenarios of how they were penalized without cause. Eventually it will go back to bump-a-cars.

 

[.star.]

First race I did after the update. I pass 2 ghosted cars that spun and received no penalty. thankfully this was a clean race.

Reading all this makes me paranoid though, ill try to get into some races tonight and see how that goes.

 

[Marckyboy]

With time this will be a blessing in improving the overall GT Sport race experience. Give it time!!

Unfortunately the vocal minority will complain and even make up fake scenarios of how they were penalized without cause. Eventually it will go back to bump-a-cars.

Agree I like these changes so far and if a slight touch equals a penalty the make sure you don't slightly touch someone. Being too strict will be a better way of improving the driving standard in my opinion

 

[Sean Renon]

Stop doing drugs and posting.

Nope. Three races in a row where I get a penalty for no fault of my own. This time, crash in front of me. Crashing car comes across the track and hits me. I get 2 seconds for being hit, then 2 more seconds for passing under the yellow AGAIN!

This system is the worst possible implementation they could have made. I will preserve my DR/SR until they fix it.

Or you could just adapt to the system, and drive more safely.
Everybody isn't going to have their DR go down drastically, some people who will be better suited to driving in stricter racing environments will have their DR go up.

 

[jagenigma]

What?! That's harsh man....

Fia racing is a no contact sport. The penalty system is finally doing right by punishing that violation

 

[eDirtyTati]

A strict penalty system is not how you stop people from crashing into each other. A stepped system of earning your way into faster cars is how you stop that. Right now, anyone old enough to turn on a PS4 can jump into a GR1 car and enter a race. Obviously, that person hasn't earned their way into that car. THAT is the problem with Sport Mode and the "dirty" driving.

The single player is structures this way FFS!!! You can't get into the higher tiers without experience, so why is this NOT the case where it matters most?

Amen!!!

But they would lose too many "casual" players if they did this. People who can only make it to the top campaign mode races by dive bombing and knocking AI off track would be pissed that they can't get into those races in Sport Mode and drop the game. You can't say I'm wrong.

 

[kjeldsen]

A strict penalty system is not how you stop people from crashing into each other. A stepped system of earning your way into faster cars is how you stop that. Right now, anyone old enough to turn on a PS4 can jump into a GR1 car and enter a race. Obviously, that person hasn't earned their way into that car. THAT is the problem with Sport Mode and the "dirty" driving.

The single player is structures this way FFS!!! You can't get into the higher tiers without experience, so why is this NOT the case where it matters most? The AI doesn't care if you crash into them. Have at it. Crash away!! But real players DO care, but instead PD decided to be inclusive and let anyone drive whatever they like. It's totally backwards.

If you look at gt6 dailes there are often close to 10,000 races for each event. That's plenty of players so I am not buying the notion that restrictions will mean less people playing online. Unfair punishment DOES stop people from playing online.

I have said it before, and I will say it again and again because it's an easy change to make (Because the features already exist in the server settings). Have a beginner race, an intermediate race, and an expert race. Everyone gets access to the A/Beginner race. Only DR B SR B drivers can get into Race B/Intermediate race. Only DR B SR S drivers and up can get into Race C. Race C is reserved for GR3 and higher. FIA races count as expert levels races as well.

Actually, GT6 was better organized in their dailies and GTS should go back to that system.

This immediately challenges less skilled drivers to improve without punishing everyone! I don't believe that any A level driver needed a more strict penalty system to help them out.

I can't be the only that noticed the drivers with the worst ratings are also the ones who complain the most about "dirty" drivers. Slow drivers are getting hit because they are slow and there needs to be a tiered set of races where you learn to be faster before getting into faster cars...you know, like in real life!

The game divides us in SR and DR groups all ready, you want us to be divided even more and then offer 1 race to certain players?
Fast drivers start in front of the field, slow drivers behind, sure if they smurf their qualifying.. then they ask for trouble by having to pass 15 cars..
And let's pretend you are right that bad drivers complain about everybody else, what is your rating? :-)

 

[Voodoovaj]

Or you could just adapt to the system, and drive more safely.
Everybody isn't going to have their DR go down drastically, some people who will be better suited to driving in stricter racing environments will have their DR go up.

Please enlighen me on how I can adapt to other people crashing and then being penalized for passing crashed cars. I am sure this insight will be useful to all of us.

And let's pretend you are right that bad drivers complain about everybody else, what is your rating? :-)

I already posted it. A/S

 

[Sean Renon]

Amen!!!

But they would lose too many "casual" players if they did this. People who can only make it to the top campaign mode races by dive bombing and knocking AI off track would be pissed that they can't get into those races in Sport Mode and drop the game. You can't say I'm wrong.

iRacing exists, go and play on it if you want iRacing.

Very early on people were screaming for SR. S to actually mean something, now it actually means something - but now people are back screaming they want it to go back to normal.
Races should be clean, passing should be difficult and contact should be penalized.

Yes, the game hasn't perfectly figured out when contact isn't your fault - but at least it's putting a stop to this "accidental" contact that comes from when people slam the accelerator too soon and bump me.

Please enlighen me on how I can adapt to other people crashing and then being penalized for passing crashed cars. I am sure this insight will be useful to all of us.

Slow down.

As for your other comment, that was happening last patch as well - obviously they're working on fixing it, it's not a perfect system.

 

[eDirtyTati]

iRacing exists, go and play on it if you want iRacing.

Very early on people were screaming for SR. S to actually mean something, now it actually means something - but now people are back screaming they want it to go back to normal.
Races should be clean, passing should be difficult - contact should be penalized.

Yes, the game hasn't perfectly figured out when contact isn't your fault - but at least it's putting a stop to this "accidental" contact that comes from when people slam the accelerator too soon and bump me.



Slow down.

As for your other comment, that was happening last patch as well - obviously they're working on fixing it, it's not a perfect system.

Either you quoted the wrong post, or you misunderstood what I said. At no point have I said I want this to go back to what it was, or that passing/contact shouldn't be difficult. The quote in my original post stated the opinion that high-end sport races shouldn't even be available to people who can't maintain a good SR. Honestly, your comment is completely irrelevant to my post.

 

[Nick Cannella]

A strict penalty system is not how you stop people from crashing into each other. A stepped system of earning your way into faster cars is how you stop that. Right now, anyone old enough to turn on a PS4 can jump into a GR1 car and enter a race. Obviously, that person hasn't earned their way into that car. THAT is the problem with Sport Mode and the "dirty" driving.

The single player is structures this way FFS!!! You can't get into the higher tiers without experience, so why is this NOT the case where it matters most? The AI doesn't care if you crash into them. Have at it. Crash away!! But real players DO care, but instead PD decided to be inclusive and let anyone drive whatever they like. It's totally backwards.

If you look at gt6 dailes there are often close to 10,000 races for each event. That's plenty of players so I am not buying the notion that restrictions will mean less people playing online. Unfair punishment DOES stop people from playing online.

I have said it before, and I will say it again and again because it's an easy change to make (Because the features already exist in the server settings). Have a beginner race, an intermediate race, and an expert race. Everyone gets access to the A/Beginner race. Only DR B SR B drivers can get into Race B/Intermediate race. Only DR B SR S drivers and up can get into Race C. Race C is reserved for GR3 and higher. FIA races count as expert levels races as well.

Actually, GT6 was better organized in their dailies and GTS should go back to that system.

This immediately challenges less skilled drivers to improve without punishing everyone! I don't believe that any A level driver needed a more strict penalty system to help them out.

I can't be the only that noticed the drivers with the worst ratings are also the ones who complain the most about "dirty" drivers. Slow drivers are getting hit because they are slow and there needs to be a tiered set of races where you learn to be faster before getting into faster cars...you know, like in real life!

I like this! Makes sense and is an excellent approach!

 

[kjeldsen]

I already posted it. A/S

Then we can agree that it is not just bad slow drivers that complain about bad drivers.

 

[Sean Renon]

Either you quoted the wrong post, or you misunderstood what I said. At no point have I said I want this to go back to what it was, or that passing/contact shouldn't be difficult. The quote in my original post stated the opinion that high-end sport races shouldn't even be available to people who can't maintain a good SR. Honestly, your comment is completely irrelevant to my post.

That is the iRacing model - that players with a low safety rating cannot compete with faster cars.
GT:Sport does not have that model - it opens all cars to all drivers, but instead pits you against equally safe drivers.
Why would you care if an SR. C driver races in GR.1 cars, if you maintain a good SR, you won't ever race against him/her.

The balance of my comment was meant to be additional discussion about the thread, not necessarily saying that you wanted things to go back to how they were.

 

[ceres2000]

Just went thru the thread. Now I haven't raced for about a week because of work and household commitments but I'm liking what I've read about the changes so far. The first thing that crossed my mind was they should have enabled the damage model as well. I'm sure it would make people even more calculated about their moves on the track.

 

[dabz343]

Yes, the game hasn't perfectly figured out when contact isn't your fault - but at least it's putting a stop to this "accidental" contact that comes from when people slam the accelerator too soon and bump me.

Yes it's an imperfect system that is heading in the right direction, but I wish PD would take the lead in providing some governance on what is and is not proper racecraft. Instead we are left to experiences the new rules while battling for position in a race. Not an ideal method for implementation IMO.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Then we can agree that it is not just bad slow drivers that complain about bad drivers.

No, we can't agree on that.

I am not complaining about bad drivers. I fail to see how a room full of S and A drivers can be considered bad in anyway. I have never complained about other drivers.

This penalty system is bad. It's been bad for a while and this change makes it worse.

 

[tofuhero]

Generally speaking, yes. But we are all trying to get to this level of racecraft IMO and PD is sitting on a credible opportunity to create context where drivers advance their knowledge and performance. If PD is serious about developing an esport platform, it may be wise to acknowledge the varying skill levels and begin to produce content that focuses on assisting driver progression.

GTS should continue to improve their penalty system to ensure solid stewardship, but why not also invest in educating novice drivers through unique content that is both fun and rewarding? Especially at the beginning of their career. iRacing has vids that provide a foundation for online racing, why doesn't PD at least do the same?

These kinds of instructional aids, and Driving School challenge missions that taught racecraft and safety instead of just speed and apexes is something that should've been in a game focused on online racing from Day 1. For a game that was in development for four years, the realization of this online racing concept seemed incredibly unfocused and sparse. It really baffles me how Scapes and the Livery Editor are amazing, polished features, and yet the core mode of the game is so barebones. It feels like they are only now putting serious effort into it.

It's hard to blame people that are used to bashing against GT AI drivers for years when you don't tell them how they are expected to act in races. The SR system is a stick, and in theory (haven't raced yet on them) I applaud these new changes because we needed a bigger stick, but PD also needs more carrots.

I'd love to see in addition to proper racecraft courses/missions, race bonuses for good driving. Clean driving bonus at the end of the race is something even many clean drivers don't get often. We should have clean sector bonuses (I think DC did this?). Clean passes, etc. Those kinds of micro-praise moments are important for building up positive associations and encouragement in people's minds with clean driving instead of just constantly hitting them with a SR stick. I think they need to take another look at the game design for this.

 

[Mr616]

Isn't this how it should be?
Overtaking is a dangerous maneuver, it should be taken with the utmost caution.
I was growing a little tired of being tapped multiple times on every corner because the guy driving behind me was so eager to get a better exit than me so he could dive down the inside line.

This this this ^^^

I do think banging mirrors while overtaking should be allowed, as I picked up a 3sec for exactly that.

It needs an ever so slight tweak, but it's so much better. The only issues have come from others not driving well around others. They will learn, and maybe some will drop a level because they realise they can't actually race that well.

Enjoying my night so far

@Voodoovaj I'm DR:A SR:S and I much prefer it as is (although it maybe needs toning down a touch, but that's what I meant about using extremes to find a happy medium).

 

[eDirtyTati]

That is the iRacing model - that players with a low safety rating cannot compete with faster cars.
GT:Sport does not have that model - it opens all cars to all drivers, but instead pits you against equally safe drivers.
Why would you care if an SR. C driver races in GR.1 cars, if you maintain a good SR, you won't ever race against him/her.

The balance of my comment was meant to be additional discussion about the thread, not necessarily saying that you wanted things to go back to how they were.

Ah! I see what you meant now. I was quite confused by your response.

I'm not familiar with the granular details of iRacing's licensing and rating system, and I probably will never be. I want to play a game that I pay for once, so it's just not in my purview. That said, if "iRacing does that, go play iRacing" were the answer to any feature requests or ideas about GTS, then there would be no need for a lot of the features that PD has implemented in the game. Many of them come from iRacing, including the SR/DR system. @Voodoovaj shared a good wish for the game to which "go play another game" isn't a valid argument against. I also provided the reasoning why that would never fly in GTS. It's just an empty wistfulness.

Edited because I write run-on sentences like they pay my bills.

 

[Quakebass]

Personally I like the move towards stricter penalties, although the sensitivity may have been pushed slightly too high in this update. There was a problem that started coming up near of the beta period where it was too easy to gain SR and everyone started clumping in the upper S-rank, even though they weren't really qualified for it. It sounds like a similar problem was brewing in the release version, though I haven't done Sport Mode frequently as of late so I can't know for sure. What I do know is that the easier it is to lose SR the better, because it keeps the dirty drivers shoved down the ranks. I know it's frustrating to get your rank tanked by a rammer, but if you consider the fact that they'll be doing the same to other drivers and racking up penalties to their own rating they'll either A). stop getting matched with you from all the penalties they get from bumping other drivers, or B) they'll be forced to clean up their act because they keep their SR rank up.

While it is frustrating to get a drop in your rank from the extra penalties, realize during this time the system will be filtering out the bad apples and leaving the upper ranks for more clean.

 

[kjeldsen]

No, we can't agree on that.

I am not complaining about bad drivers. I fail to see how a room full of S and A drivers can be considered bad in anyway. I have never complained about other drivers.

This penalty system is bad. It's been bad for a while and this change makes it worse.

But please explain to me how your proposal is making any difference? Unless i am wrong, you will be in the front in pretty much every race where you encounter slower drivers (below A) since they will be slower. And it will be a S race because that is your rating.

 

[dabz343]

It's hard to blame people that are used to bashing against GT AI drivers for years when you don't tell them how they are expected to act in races.

PD did make an attempt with the etiquette videos, but should have recognized earlier a proper launch of Sport Mode requires more.

I'd love to see in addition to proper racecraft courses/missions, race bonuses for good driving. Clean driving bonus at the end of the race is something even many clean drivers don't get often. We should have clean sector bonuses (I think DC did this?). Clean passes, etc. Those kinds of micro-praise moments are important for building up positive associations and encouragement in people's minds with clean driving instead of just constantly hitting them with a SR stick.

I like where you are going with this. PD should approach solutions from diverse perspectives that elevate the enjoyment of racing. These types of positive reinforcement may even encourage those that have yet to try Sport Mode to take part. If I remember correctly, more than 90% of players have NOT participated in a Sport...

The first thing that crossed my mind was they should have enabled the damage model as well. I'm sure it would make people even more calculated about their moves on the track.

Right, but this would have impacted the player base. I think the question is, how does GTS promote and reward good racecraft while enlarging the player base?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Are the penalties turned on for the daily B? I just got used twice as a guide rail in the corners, no response from the penalty system. Matchmaking is terrible or everyone is too afraid to race. A/S to D/S. I did already recover 16 SR from 2 races, 92 atm, after disconnect and Interlagos chaos yesterday. Still too easy to regain SR.