Legendary cars dealer refresh

[Gt79]

Wheelspins. I don't buy from AH. I like to be original owner.

Not sure if you're aware but beginning of FH5 had several ways to get Super Wheelspins very fast, so I did that to get lots of exclusives. Unfortunately one of their first updates was to nerf it. It's funny though how both games did the same but one got a pass because no MTX.

Also the way the AH works is entirely on the developers, it was they who made it so "Legendary" creators can hoard all the juicy rare cars to sell them for 20 million.

they didn't nerfd payouts tho or wheelspins, they just patched a loophole, which i didn't bother to use and still got it all within couple of months just by playing a game

 

[The359]

You have a point, but let's put some things in perspective here.

After you finish the Café, you get the full card of Catalunya events. They are the following:

Schwarzwald League: PP 700 / 5 laps / 40,000 Cr.
Ferrari Circuit Challenge: PP 700 / 5 laps / 50,000 Cr.
WTC 800: PP 800 / 8xFuel / 12xTire / 10 laps / 70,000 Cr.

Why does WTC 800, a much harder event than Ferrari Challenge with double the length, pays less than 50% more for the whole thing? Why does Ferrari Challenge pay 10,000 Cr. more than Schwarzwald despite same restrictions?

It doesn't make any sense! That's the problem. Tweaks are welcome, but the payouts still have no balance.

I'd argue that WTC 800 isn't necessarily a more difficult challenge, since any Gr3 car can compete, while Ferrari Challenge requires you to either buy the right Ferrari or build your own. Further, as Kaz pointed out, "time" was also a factor as the specific circuits used to determine the time spent. 5 laps of Le Mans is vastly different from 10 laps of Alsace, as a theoretical example.

I'd also point out that BOP was tweaked over the years of GT Sport, finding the balance of payouts is certainly able to be tweaked and corrected, and expanded upon as well.

 

[SeaNorris]

Most players wont have 20 million, but they're not supposed to, we already know Kaz is planning a long-term game. But they can't just have the Legends dealer empty. Same as Used Car dealers in older games, they'd have very expensive cars available even though it was impossible to afford them in the opening weeks. So yes, previous games has cars that were located behind rotating dealerships. They're showing you what the Legends dealership will be like, and obviously, they have a set rotation. As I said before, if they didn't have the Legends dealer open at Day 1, then people would equally be complaining and claiming Kaz lied about a missing feature.

Damned if you show people cars they can't afford, or damned if you wait until they can afford them to show them?

In Gran Turismo 5 you could forward your own dealership by doing events, Gran Turismo 6 every car is available from the dealership from the get go. So while you could say GT5 was similar, you could at least advance the dealership rotations by doing events (which you could also sub contract to your B-Spec drivers!).

Kaz can play the long term game all he wants, the problem is you might be unlucky enough to not see the car again because you may be on holiday next time it appears! As for the point about having the Legend dealer from day one, I am not saying they shouldn't have had it from day one what I am saying is the choice of cars are perplexing. If Kaz is playing the "long game" why does he even need to show you the F1? There is a car list that tells you its in there, the space could have been given up to a car within reasonable reach. It's his game, his choice - but as often is the case with that - they are baffling.

 

[GT_Alex74]

So, apparently, buying a new body for the F1 would be 14 millions in game. I don't know about the engine. That means a virtual car in a game would literally cost more to maintain than my real life MX-5 🤣

 

[Gt79]

I'd argue that WTC 800 isn't necessarily a more difficult challenge, since any Gr3 car can compete, while Ferrari Challenge requires you to either buy the right Ferrari or build your own. Further, as Kaz pointed out, "time" was also a factor as the specific circuits used to determine the time spent. 5 laps of Le Mans is vastly different from 10 laps of Alsace, as a theoretical example.

I'd also point out that BOP was tweaked over the years of GT Sport, finding the balance of payouts is certainly able to be tweaked and corrected, and expanded upon as well.

i did that Ferrari event with 458 they gave me, on easy its doable to come 1st,on hard 3rd guaranteed with couple of upgrades you can do 1st easily

 

[mwoodski]

they didn't nerfd payouts tho or wheelspins, they just patched a loophole, which i didn't bother to use and still got it all within couple of months just by playing a game

They DEFINITELY nerfed wheelspins a month or two ago. The high credit results are much less frequent and they added in a bunch of 5k and 2k credit ones too.

 

[Pizzicato1985]

Poor example. You don't need the McLaren F1 to beat the game or even do anything else in the game. This is not pay-to-win.

Do you work for PD? Wait... Is this Kaz using a sock-puppet, trying to astro-turf a defense of this turd?!
Get back to work and fix the mess you made!

 

[wasenhorn]

I see, I found the corresponding segment in my stats on the granturismo site.
so what kind of cheesing method you are using? mind sharing?

I've already shared it on other post.

 

[McLaren]

Wheelspins. I don't buy from AH. I like to be original owner.

Not sure if you're aware but beginning of FH5 had several ways to get Super Wheelspins very fast, so I did that to get lots of exclusives. Unfortunately one of their first updates was to nerf it. It's funny though how both games did the same but one got a pass because no MTX.

So like me, you used the wheelspin tactics which not only guaranteed a return on investment, but also rewarded you with several other worthwhile items while chasing the XJ220, but you want to speak as if the grind was some tedious thing. And then you find out it was "poop" even though you literally weren't out any money to get it.

They nerfed it because the idea behind it wasn't to continuously buy Jeep Willys, or then Caymans or Trans-Ams only for wheelspins. It kind of sucked, but it made sense. Doesn't change that the game still throws money at you.

Also the way the AH works is entirely on the developers, it was they who made it so "Legendary" creators can hoard all the juicy rare cars to sell them for 20 million.

LOL, yes, that's why every time I checked it, there's tons and tons of other cars, usually ones rewarded to you anyway on there.

What cars are being hoarded that no one else wasn't given equal opportunity? The only I've seen still difficult to acquire was the SVJ, but I also went through all the challenges each week to get it.

 

[Gt79]

They DEFINITELY nerfed wheelspins a month or two ago. The high credit results are much less frequent and they added in a bunch of 5k and 2k credit ones too.

perhaps, but i always got 5k then 150k or higher on the next spin, anyway money is not a problem in fh5, heck i haven't even drove f1 cause I'm not a fan, haven't drove 400 something in my garage, i got like 10 regulars that i use for events

 

[mrPetros]

View attachment 1126457

93 hours is nearly 4 full days. Add in 8 hours of daily sleep and you're in at 6 full days. But apparently Kaz wants us to not have to rely on MTX or doing the same event over and over again.

Now, in terms of microtransactions, you'd need to shell out nearly 200€, for a virtual car you will basically never use because no one else will have it. Or you could go on a full day track day, on a real circuit, in a real car, in real life, and get probably more driving hours there that you'd get from the virtual car. Anyone still defending the economy of this game in any shape or form has fried their brains.

yo, what site is that? pass the address please

 

[The359]

In Gran Turismo 5 you could forward your own dealership by doing events, Gran Turismo 6 every car is available from the dealership from the get go. So while you could say GT5 was similar, you could at least advance the dealership rotations by doing events (which you could also sub contract to your B-Spec drivers!).

Kaz can play the long term game all he wants, the problem is you might be unlucky enough to not see the car again because you may be on holiday next time it appears! As for the point about having the Legend dealer from day one, I am not saying they shouldn't have had it from day one what I am saying is the choice of cars are perplexing. If Kaz is playing the "long game" why does he even need to show you the F1? There is a car list that tells you its in there, the space could have been given up to a car within reasonable reach. It's his game, his choice - but as often is the case with that - they are baffling.

You might not get a car because you didn't pre-order, you might not get a car because you missed out on a questionnaire, you might miss out on a car because you don't play the game every day. You could just as easily not get a car because you never play the game enough to earn enough credits.

As I said before, why show the Stealths early in the Used Car Dealer that no one could afford? Because the rotation was on a set schedule, you have to spread those things out. Do you want all the cheap cars first then to scale up over the next few months? How is that going to make earning those cars any easier?

These can also apply to literally every other video game in existence today. We literally have roulettes of luck in the game and have in previous games, luck is part of the game.

Do you work for PD? Wait... Is this Kaz using a sock-puppet, trying to astro-turf a defense of this turd?!
Get back to work and fix the mess you made!

I don't think you know what those terms mean. Maybe I have better ways to spend my time than using poop emojis? 🤣

 

[GT_Alex74]

yo, what site is that? pass the address please

GT7 Online Dealerships & Info

 

[TheAdmiester]

 

[SeaNorris]

You might not get a car because you didn't pre-order, you might not get a car because you missed out on a questionnaire, you might miss out on a car because you don't play the game every day. You could just as easily not get a car because you never play the game enough to earn enough credits.

As I said before, why show the Stealths early in the Used Car Dealer that no one could afford? Because the rotation was on a set schedule, you have to spread those things out. Do you want all the cheap cars first then to scale up over the next few months? How is that going to make earning those cars any easier?

These can also apply to literally every other video game in existence today. We literally have roulettes of luck in the game and have in previous games, luck is part of the game.

I don't think you know what those terms mean. Maybe I have better ways to spend my time than using poop emojis? 🤣

Just two things, GT5 as previously pointed out had a UCD rotation that you yourself could rotate along by doing events so its not the same as this system in GT7. Even if you DID get enough credits they cap you at 20million for what reason? Something they had in GT5 I think that was at least increased in 6 so you could in theory save for the more expensive cars if that was your way of playing.

As for the roulette system in this game, is it seriously a case of luck? Easily 90% of all the tickets I have had in this game have been the lowest prizes on the table, I'd say I've had 4 or 5 actual decent ones out of how every many you get from the Cafe menu + 16 days driving tickets. Hiding aspects of the game such as engine changes behind a "luck" based system is just a poor design decision from the developer.

 

[Strittan]

So, apparently, buying a new body for the F1 would be 14 millions in game. I don't know about the engine. That means a virtual car in a game would literally cost more to maintain than my real life MX-5 🤣

But it’s realistic! We all want it to be as realistic as possible, right? Also, there’s nothing wrong with the economy, you just have to play the game for a few months to see for yourself. Be patient, money will come eventually! Oh, and if you happen to like expensive (awesome) cars, suit yourself! Stop being such a snob and enjoy driving your Subaru BRZ and alike instead! Of course you can’t afford a McLaren F1 (even though it’s just a ******* videgame) right now. It will reappear eventually, and then you’ll have the credits, unless you blew it the day before on a Ferrari 250 GTO, but then again, you like aweso… I mean expensive cars? Suit yourself!

 

[boostdmarkii]

Please enlighten us because i have a hard time turning half a million an hour after the patch and thats barely enough to buy and build most cheap cars so anything faster would be helpful..

 

[Samus]

Seriously considering writing a quick email to McLaren to see if they're aware that the cars they licensed won't be driven by most fans.

Tell them we're cool with the car being priced realistically, it's a rare and special car etc, but tell them what they expect players to go through to earn those credits, and the time limitations. Tell them we'd love to drive your cars, but we can't. I doubt they have any idea.

Highly unlikely to have any effect but you never know, maybe it'll take pressure from the car makers and licensors to make PD/Sony change things in this game. If the cars aren't getting driven it's not good for them.

guest.relations@mclaren.com if anyone else wants to consider it.

 

[NDFong]

Grind all week for this

 

[The359]

Just two things, GT5 as previously pointed out had a UCD rotation that you yourself could rotate along by doing events so its not the same as this system in GT7. Even if you DID get enough credits they cap you at 20million for what reason? Something they had in GT5 I think that was at least increased in 6 so you could in theory save for the more expensive cars if that was your way of playing.

As for the roulette system in this game, is it seriously a case of luck? Easily 90% of all the tickets I have had in this game have been the lowest prizes on the table, I'd say I've had 4 or 5 actual decent ones out of how every many you get from the Cafe menu + 16 days driving tickets. Hiding aspects of the game such as engine changes behind a "luck" based system is just a poor design decision from the developer.

Which would you rather have, a system that requires you to enter and exit races just to move a date marker, or a system that requires you to actually race? And if you couldnt earn money fast enough for the day you knew was coming, you had to waste your time forwarding it. Cheesing the system does not negate that such a system existed that did not allow you to buy all cars whenever you wanted. And the cap exists to force you to buy cars, same as the game forces you to buy certain cars for menus.

And your luck is not everyone else's luck, you should know better than that.

 

[NotThePrez]

I did lots and lots of farming in FH5 to get the XJ220, only to find out it was **** in the game.

That's what vehicle upgrades and tuning is for.

Because they wanted you to buy the TWR XJ220C from the Xbox store, of course.

I still prefer that to GT7's system, because you at least know exactly what you're getting for what you pay for, whereas with GT7 you likely are going to overspend on the MTXs to get the credits needed for a car.

The McLaren took me less time, but I was lucky. If anything, in GT7 it may be easier to buy the F1 than in FH5, because without flipping cars in the AH and luck in the wheelspins, money in FH5 is too slow to earn.

You literally get wheelspins every time you level up, you earn double credits for races if you've bought the VIP pass (as well as 2-4 free Super Wheelspins every week), there's a house that you can buy that gifts you a wheelspin every day, some of the car collection rewards are additional credits, several cars have their own credit boosts, wheelspins and XP boosts, and there are several challenges that earn you Wheelspins, Super wheelspins and credits as rewards. You can also get money through passive means by creating and sharing user-created content, such as liveries, tunes, custom events, etc. That one is admittedly luck based, although several or the more active Forza GTPers have come together to more-or-less cheese that system.

Let's also not forget that XP and credit rewards are scaled with race length, meaning that longer races yield higher money and XP rewards, the latter of which can grant you a good number of wheelspins, further boosting potential money earned.

We really need a way to farm roulettes, because I sure don't want to wait 2 years to get a quad rotor or a 2JZ.

As mentioned, longer races reward more credits and XP. Some of the Forza Edition cars also have Skill Boosts for certain actions, and banking those skills also rewards more XP at the end of races.

Wheelspins. I don't buy from AH. I like to be original owner.

Then all you're doing at that point is arbitrarily making the game harder for yourself. You've consciously chosen to ignore one of the options the devs have given you towards earning a particular car. Hard to see how that's their fault.

That's also not the same thing at all to GT7, which requires you to grind unreasonable hours on one event or fork over 2-3x the games worth in real money for the same car.

Not sure if you're aware but beginning of FH5 had several ways to get Super Wheelspins very fast, so I did that to get lots of exclusives. Unfortunately one of their first updates was to nerf it.

Yes, because PG understands that there still needs to be some sort of balance when it comes to earning cars and money. The issue was that people were buying up the Willys Jeep in droves because it had a reward box that gave 3 Super Wheelspins, then players proceeded to flood the Auction House and gifting system with Jeeps.

The only real issue I had was that when PG fixed this, they called it an "exploit," which was a bit silly since all the steps needed to engage in it were systems being used in the way PG initially designed them to be used.

It's funny though how both games did the same but one got a pass because no MTX.

Primarily because the game without MTXs is set up in a way to where you're constantly getting rewards for playing the game, has a large variety of ways to earn said rewards, and the overall economy isn't setup in a way to nickle-and-dime players at every chance it gets.

What's really funny to me is how some people's argument to the complaints about GT7 is "just play the game," yet when PG sets up ways for people to get what they want in a reasonable way by playing the game, suddenly they're the bad guys?

Also the way the AH works is entirely on the developers, it was they who made it so "Legendary" creators can hoard all the juicy rare cars to sell them for 20 million.

That's actually not really a thing anymore. Legendary creators can sell cars for a tiny bit extra, but now what influences how much cars can be sold for is based on a cars relative rarity within the game. Right now the maximum Buy Out Price for the McLaren F1 on the Auction House is ~7 Million credits, however several listings have the starting price at 1.5-2 Million Credits, and there's a pretty healthy number of listings. Since it was a reward during the first Series, this means that lots of people have it, so there's not a whole bunch of people bidding on it, meaning you can likely grab one pretty cheap.

The takeway from this is that while FH5 is absolutely not perfect by any means, the game is still set up in a way that respects a players time and gives them a large variety of things to do to get the specific items they want. Compare that to GT7, which doesn't respect a players time, nor for that matter respects the fact that people have already paid for a full-priced title, by trying to entice players into spending further money on items already in the game. It's why I maintain that PD, among other things, really needs to pay better attention to what their competition is up to, and learn from both their strengths and weaknesses, if they want to make GT7 (and future GT games) worthwhile, let alone remain relevant.

 

[McLaren]

Seriously considering writing a quick email to McLaren to see if they're aware that the cars they licensed won't be driven by most fans.

Tell them we're cool with the car being priced realistically, it's a rare and special car etc, but tell them what they expect players to go through to earn those credits, and the time limitations. Tell them we'd love to drive your cars, but we can't. I doubt they have any idea.

Highly unlikely to have any effect but you never know, maybe it'll take pressure from the car makers and licensors to make PD/Sony change things in this game. If the cars aren't getting driven it's not good for them.

guest.relations@mclaren.com if anyone else wants to consider it.

I'll commend your efforts, but I wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturers are unbothered. PD paid them for their licenses, and the manufacturers signed off on how their cars have been presented for whenever one does actually acquire it.

 

[Boxout]

Just as a note:
this screenshot was from while the page was still being worked on,
so the "24 hour custom races" value is slightly wrong (I left it at starting P10, but have since corrected it to starting P20).

Final updated image is this (152 days straight of racing, not 172 ):

View attachment 1126458

Just curious, do you manually update the listings every day or is there some sort of API you tapped into that has all this info?

 

[Gt79]

That's what vehicle upgrades and tuning is for.

I still prefer that to GT7's system, because you at least know exactly what you're getting for what you pay for, whereas with GT7 you likely are going to overspend on the MTXs to get the credits needed for a car.

You literally get wheelspins every time you level up, you earn double credits for races if you've bought the VIP pass (as well as 2-4 free Super Wheelspins every week), there's a house that you can buy that gifts you a wheelspin every day, some of the car collection rewards are additional credits, several cars have their own credit boosts, wheelspins and XP boosts, and there are several challenges that earn you Wheelspins, Super wheelspins and credits as rewards. You can also get money through passive means by creating and sharing user-created content, such as liveries, tunes, custom events, etc. That one is admittedly luck based, although several or the more active Forza GTPers have come together to more-or-less cheese that system.

Let's also not forget that XP and credit rewards are scaled with race length, meaning that longer races yield higher money and XP rewards, the latter of which can grant you a good number of wheelspins, further boosting potential money earned.

As mentioned, longer races reward more credits and XP. Some of the Forza Edition cars also have Skill Boosts for certain actions, and banking those skills also rewards more XP at the end of races.

Then all you're doing at that point is arbitrarily making the game harder for yourself. You've consciously chosen to ignore one of the options the devs have given you towards earning a particular car. Hard to see how that's their fault.

That's also not the same thing at all to GT7, which requires you to grind unreasonable hours on one event or fork over 2-3x the games worth in real money for the same car.

Yes, because PG understands that there still needs to be some sort of balance when it comes to earning cars and money. The issue was that people were buying up the Willys Jeep in droves because it had a reward box that gave 3 Super Wheelspins, then players proceeded to flood the Auction House and gifting system with Jeeps.

The only real issue I had was that when PG fixed this, they called it an "exploit," which was a bit silly since all the steps needed to engage in it were systems being used in the way PG initially designed them to be used.

Primarily because the game without MTXs is set up in a way to where you're constantly getting rewards for playing the game, has a large variety of ways to earn said rewards, and the overall economy isn't setup in a way to nickle-and-dime players at every chance it gets.

What's really funny to me is how some people's argument to the complaints about GT7 is "just play the game," yet when PG sets up ways for people to get what they want in a reasonable way by playing the game, suddenly they're the bad guys?

That' actually not really a thing anymore. Legendary creators can sell cars for a tiny bit extra, but now what influences how much cars can be sold for is based on a cars relative rarity within the game. Right now the maximum Buy Out Price for the McLaren F1 on the Auction House is ~7 Million credits, however several listings have the buyout price at 1.5-2 Million Credits, and there's a pretty healthy number of listings. Since it was a reward during the first Series, this means that lots of people have it, so there's not a whole bunch of people bidding on it, meaning you can likely grab one pretty cheap.

on top of that most valuable car in fh5 is ferrari 250 gto for 50 mil and you get it for free from barn find

 

[SeaNorris]

Which would you rather have, a system that requires you to enter and exit races just to move a date marker, or a system that requires you to actually race? And if you couldnt earn money fast enough for the day you knew was coming, you had to waste your time forwarding it. Cheesing the system does not negate that such a system existed that did not allow you to buy all cars whenever you wanted. And the cap exists to force you to buy cars, same as the game forces you to buy certain cars for menus.

And your luck is not everyone else's luck, you should know better than that.

Well personally I preferred the GT5 system of being able to advance the dealer yourself where often you'd come across cars you might not have even had in your mind at the time. In GT7 you could message me every day the UCD update as it's the same for us all.

As for the roulette, if you believe it is down to luck then that is fair enough. I personally don't think it is and it means some of the project ideas I have I may NEVER get the chance to obtain for the simple reason that the game locks it behind a roulette ticket that I can only get once a day. I'd rather the parts were readily available to buy at your own choice even IF the price was higher as a result.

 

[Samus]

I'll commend your efforts, but I wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturers are unbothered. PD paid them for their licenses, and the manufacturers signed off on how their cars have been presented for whenever one does actually acquire it.

You'd be surprised how little companies sometimes know about how their brand is being used in partnership deals. Not just in video games, but the wider world. There are many stories of brands signing something off then later saying "Hey, no wait, we didn't realise you were going to do that with it" and pulling support.

As you say chances are they wouldn't care in this regard, but you never know.

 

[The359]

Well personally I preferred the GT5 system of being able to advance the dealer yourself where often you'd come across cars you might not have even had in your mind at the time. In GT7 you could message me every day the UCD update as it's the same for us all.

As for the roulette, if you believe it is down to luck then that is fair enough. I personally don't think it is and it means some of the project ideas I have I may NEVER get the chance to obtain for the simple reason that the game locks it behind a roulette ticket that I can only get once a day. I'd rather the parts were readily available to buy at your own choice even IF the price was higher as a result.

The point is that the method of obtaining certain cars has been restricted in some form or another beyond simply acquiring credits in the history of this franchise. This is the method they are trying now. It has both pros and cons. Keep in mind as well that access to information in how the UCD rotated in GT5 was not something known for some time.after the launch of the game, just like we currently do not know the rotation for the Legends, meaning planning ahead was not something you could do at the start.

 

[McLaren]

You'd be surprised how little companies sometimes know about how their brand is being used in partnership deals. Not just in video games, but the wider world. There are many stories of brands signing something off then later saying "Hey, no wait, we didn't realise you were going to do that with it" and pulling support.

As you say chances are they wouldn't care in this regard, but you never know.

I'll just say then that I'll be interested in whatever response they send back to you to share.

 

[Silver Arrows]

What's really funny to me is how some people's argument to the complaints about GT7 is "just play the game," yet when PG sets up ways for people to get what they want in a reasonable way by playing the game, suddenly they're the bad guys?

Forza Bad. That's all there is to it. Even though T10/PG learned their lessons beforehand, and make a concerted effort to try and make the in game economy fair and not dependent on grinding to get anywhere credits wise, nor is wrapped up around micro-transactions, while the other side of the equation is trying through hell or high water to either back door it (GT Sport) or insert it on general release in order to preserve high critic scores (GT7) apparently Forza is still Bad and Evil to our mutual and dishonest friend here.

Lets be real, broken down to brass tacks, would people rather grind Fisherman's Ranch for what four days, in order to get the amount of money needed and realized you missed the boat, all the while the pall of micro-transactions hangs over the game like a curse, because the in game economy was designed around either using MTX's or grinding like hell (after Polyphony cleaved the reward payouts!) or would they rather get credits plentifully, naturally, through gameplay, and have free cars given to them in a week's time for completing menial tasks? I know what I would choose, and I have a good feeling I know what the vast majority of the people in this forum would choose.

Seems weird then that our mutual, dishonest friend continues to pound the drum that Forza is just as grindy and just as scummy...yet when confronted on it, multiple times, with proof on how it isn't and still looks better then what Polyphony has done with three straight GT games, he simply either deflects, ignores it and tries to pound the drum in another thread, or tries to spin it around to make it seem like Forza is evil, louder and louder. Too bad then that his tactics are so easily pointed out.

 

[SeaNorris]

The point is that the method of obtaining certain cars has been restricted in some form or another beyond simply acquiring credits in the history of this franchise. This is the method they are trying now. It has both pros and cons. Keep in mind as well that access to information in how the UCD rotated in GT5 was not something known for some time.after the launch of the game, just like we currently do not know the rotation for the Legends, meaning planning ahead was not something you could do at the start.

Yes but the method of restricting them is worse in this game than it is in previous games and has been made worse by a patch, I know that is their decision but that doesn't mean the entire player base has to be happy with it. In the times I have replied to your messages I have been grinding out just to get the credits up a bit and I have struggled to get it to what I myself consider a reasonable level for the effort put in, prior to this patch it was more enjoyable to me - that may not match up with your experience but that's how it is for me. I don't recall them actively reducing the payouts in GT5/6 either.

Besides which, in previous games they did not hide certain car modification parts behind a roulette system that once you complete a menu book and end up with 80% of the lowest credit payouts, you can only get through a daily marathon with no additional way to obtain more.