Lemons Season 4: Next Race on 29 November

[pyxen]

As for the sprint track concept. The whole point is to pick a short track with very little/short passing opportunities. Drivers shouldn't expect to go from last to first, even when they have a fast car. They just need to run a blocking line to keep everyone behind them. Tsukuba, London, Cape Ring inside, or Autumn Ring Mini are perfect for this. There are short places to pass, but usually you can't get by unless the other person makes a mistake and gives up the inside line.

Could I recommend for the sprint races we adopt something like the Tour de France, where groups of drivers are awarded the same points? If there's 3 finishing together, then those 3 are all one group.. it would eliminate the intense need to pass, and yet keep it competitive, because you would want to break away (ie: sprint) to have a distinct advantage over your competition.

Points would remain as-is, however, so if the first 5 pass the line 'together' they all get the same, and then 6-8 as a group would get 6th place points, and 8-12 together would get 8th place..etc.

On tight/twisty tracks, it'd be interesting, because the racing would be tight and tough.. Only if the leader of your pack goes out (rubs a wall / misses an apex) would you really get past - or at least that's the idea. They would be able to get back with you tho, if they drove hard.

Thoughts ? I would want to see 3x15 minute races, with some time between for tweaking. It'd be a nice 'best 2 out of 3' type sitch too.

I'm just sick of le Sarthe and Nurburgring isn't really about racing, its about not crashing.

I agree with this as well...the really long tracks need to have 1) mandatory pits, and 2) more time..ie: 2hrs instead of only 1.

 

[pyxen]

Which brings up a question. Is loading 5 license tests still the fastest way to flip the UCD?

I load up a seasonal race, and start/exit it 5 times. When you exit the last time it brings you right to the home page, so it's hella fast. You can cycle the UCD in 2 minutes really..or as fast as you can hit (X)......[start] > right right right > (X)

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I load up a seasonal race, and start/exit it 5 times. When you exit the last time it brings you right to the home page, so it's hella fast. You can cycle the UCD in 2 minutes really..or as fast as you can hit (X)......[start] > right right right > (X)

O is faster than Right Right Right.

 

[pyxen]

I don't think you can do that when in the race though Garris..it just exits the mini-menu.

Give the TdF idea some thought...I think it'd be pretty sweet, and it'd be a completely different strategy.

 

[BTK]

You can't do an odd number...

Here's an example.

Race 1- based off qualifying. Top three gets a 3 point bonus 1st 3 points 2nd 2 points 3rd 1 point.

Race 2- Field is reversed. Top 3 get same bonus points.

Race 3- Field is reversed AGAIN.

Now here is why odd is bad.

1st race, driver gets high qualifying spot, finishes 3rd.

2nd race, driver cruises in last.

3rd race, driver will start first. Blocks for 6 laps, and wins race.
----------------------

Get what I'm saying?

If you do two races, you either go for bonus points and start last the second race, OR bag the first race, give up a shot for bonus points, and take a chance on still being passed for first.

Tbh, you really would have to make a bigger bonus point like 5, 3, 1. It would be an epic race, because you can never decide which strategy is best.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Get what I'm saying?

I do. It makes sense that we'd have to have an even number of sprints.

I still don't get the idea behind the sprints though. For that one evening, the total points award to any person can't be greater than they would get on any other evening. In other words, if we have four sprints, you don't get points as though you were in four races. It wouldn't be fair to anyone that misses only that one evening.

That means we have to average places, as Huyler suggested, and award points based on that (or just award quarter points for each race, it averages out to the same). What I don't get is... what does that accomplish?

Say I don't take it in the back and I finish the second race out front. Then I start the third race in the back. I then start the fourth race in the front. In the end, everyone averages out to placing in the middle, unless they manage some good passes.

I don't really see how that is any different than a full race. It just isn't clicking for me.

I guess it keeps the cars tighter, and that is a good thing, and that promotes more racing. But, if we intentionally pick tight tracks with poor passing opportunities, we are promoting accidents more so than racing.

As to the points for the pack idea as in Tour de France, we would have to have some very well defined lines as to what is the edge of a pack. I could see a straggler between packs claiming that he is part of the pack infront of him and not the pack behind him. We'd have to say the gap can be no bigger than 2 seconds or something reasonable like that.

 

[pyxen]

Even number...ok then!

The gap would have to be defined - maybe 2% of the total time ? I seriously think that the pack idea for sprints takes the mad pressure off passing (and drops the danger level of crashing).

If you wanted to split the 1st place points between the number in the group, I guess that'd work. It's up to the driver to make the races tho, and they would know that the sprint nights are the ones you want to show up for!

Having sprints is like drag racing...it's a different type of race, neither better or worse than a 60 minute / 30 lap session. So yeah - just divide the points by 2 or 4 (or however many races there are) and award groups with that.

It's a HUGE chance for people to get some mega points..is that a bad thing ? If all you had to do was stick with the guy, and not try and pass, to get the same points as he does you could Garris..

 

[diabolicwyvern]

And I'm guessing you guys have computer jobs that allow you to monitor the forums during the day as well?

You're cutting deep Spooble I, for one, have a desk job. And at my desk sits a computer. I do not have a computer job.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, I'm hoping all this sprint junk gets tossed out. We have had three seasons that have gone fairly well. All the sudden we are changing concepts. Did we learn nothing from Remember the Stigs??

Coach Schumacher: Now I may be a mean cuss. But I'm the same mean cuss with everybody out there on Autumn Ring. GTPlanet don't give a damn about how fast these drivers are, especially the slower ones. You (folks calling for format changes) ain't doin' these drivers a favor by patronizing them. You ain't helping these drivers by masking the talent gap. You're crippling them; You're crippling them for life


Each day we are one step farther from Lemons to Lemans...

 

[chuyler1]

The point is to give those who are inconsistent for 60 minutes a chance to start over. It also gives slower cars for that particular evening a chance to actually race by blocking as many cars as possible. For those who are nervous about racing in close quarters on a short track, this is your chance to practice it.

I think 4-6 10 minute races will work...and we could throw out your worst finish if you want.

 

[pyxen]

That'd be interesting.

I really enjoyed the custom tracks tonight...frankly, more than the standard ones. I would vote those as sprint courses.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Santa Clause doesn't give any breaks!

 

[TrackBound7]

From my short experience with what I think would be considered sprint races, I am a huge supporter. Like I mentioned with the Capp Cup: Our enduro nights, pays out 50 points for the winner, where our double header (sprint nights) pays out 25 points to each winner of each race (sometimes the same guy, but not always). The double header (or in this case, even maybe the quad header) provides a ton of fun for everyone. It gives the slower guys a chance to possibly race for the lead which may not happen in many other leagues. It also gives the faster guys the opportunity to work their way up through the field (you know, racing), rather than just taking off from pole position and never really coming across any other cars. The other nice part is if you do have one bad race or get rapped up in someone else mistake, you aren't penalized for the full 60 minute race, just a 1 10 minute race. Like I said, new here, dont want to stop on any toes, and will go with whatever format and PP is decided, but I have found a mixed format such as mentioned to be very fun for all involved.

 

[BTK]

Last night was a blast! But with a lengthy discussion with Diabolic, I think we should throw out the sprint races. We've ran 3 seasons without them, and with what? A week left before car choices are submitted? It would be a squeeze to design it out, test it, and then decide a track.

I'm not against sprint races, but let's play out this season and get an idea of what tracks we're running. Besides, we have a new points system that may or may not work (I'm sure it will).

My point is, we've totally redesigned Lemons this season, and I think sprint races may be a bit much. We don't want anyone mad, and quitting during the season.

 

[dabneyd]

I think we should throw out the sprint races.

I agree. We should try to test the concept in the off weeks during the holidays, if anyone wants. We really should get it nailed down before we implement it in the series.

 

[pyxen]

I still like the idea...both in the TdF format (group points), and for the reasons trackbound wrote. Clean slates are always nice to have.

 

[chuyler1]

We used the concept in my GT500 series...and it worked very well. The only issues we had were when one of the drivers lagged out on the second turn of a sprint and took a few other drivers with him (unavoidable). People were aggressive and drove 2-wide through the first part of the track but after half a lap things went single file and it became very difficult to move up the field.

* Run 5 sprints
* Throw away your worst finish
* Add up the points for the remaining 4.
* Person with the most points gets 1st place for the night and that's what goes into the books for the championship.

It's really not that difficult to understand. It accomplishes several things, as outlined by TrackBound. Drivers with blazingly fast cars have to work harder to get up the front. It is no longer about qualifying and staying out front, its about passing others. Drivers with slow cars have a challenge...don't give up the inside line and let anyone pass you. You don't block, but at a track like Tsukuba, it's amazing how hard it can be to pass on the outside.

Look, if the night ends up being a huge disaster, we can just throw away the points and forget it never happened. We could add an additional race in if you want if things go south.

 

[chuyler1]

As for the generated tracks, these are what we ran...

1) Lemons Toscana Circuit -- This was a pretty quick track but had some tough brake zones. It started out in the daytime and ended in the dark, apparently with rain...i'll see if i can get rid of the rain but it didn't appear to affect traction.

2) Hairpin Mountain -- This track was very technical with multiple sharp hairpin turns and a very steep final sector.

3) High Range Road -- This track was a little less technical but had a high banked sweeper in the middle and the blind flying final turn.


My vote is to run option 1 and use the time change so we start in the day and end in the night. The track is simple enough to memorize and has enough turns to slow down drivers as tires wear down.

 

[dabneyd]

We also seemed to have issues with drivers not seeing each other again.

 

[chuyler1]

Yes, I guess pyxn couldn't see me at GVE-R. The first race he almost pushed me off the track trying to get the outside line. I pushed back but he didn't move. Luckily my corsa comfort was skinny enough to stay on the track.

 

[dabneyd]

I don't want to hate on Garris' internet connection, but it seems like we have the most issues in his lounge when he's hosting.

 

[BTK]

The Mt. Aso Tracks are fun but not for lemons. They're very arcade like and we would be back in the Nurb situation of who won't crash. Also, the straight there is way to long too be fun. It's draft pass, don't crash, draft pass, don't crash. Just doesn't seem fun.

I did like the Toscana course but it needs to be widened just a click because you can NOT pass in the middle section. Also, someone is going to get wrecked first turn due to the huge brake zone. Just beware, but I loved the track.

 

[chuyler1]

I will widen it a click or two...but any more and it will straighten out those turns where you need to get the line right to run WOT.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

We ran nothing but 345 last night, and hopefully no one gets up in arms about this, but we are going with 345 for the season.

I don't want to hate on Garris' internet connection, but it seems like we have the most issues in his lounge when he's hosting.

It really seems to be a problem with Bowtie and Pyxen. They are the ones that can't see each other if anyone can't.

I don't mind if someone else wants to host, though, or we do it in a public lobby. I don't think it will fix the problem between Bowtie and Pyxen.

I really don't know the best way to fix this, but I don't want to delay race starts any more. I feel horrible saying this, but if you can't see someone, and you cause a wreck, it is still your fault. Get into the lounge as early as you can to make sure everything is working okay.

I think I'll work on a track list tonight. As a compromise, I'll publish the list by Friday. Hopefully by then, everyone will have picked out their car, or at least narrowed it down to just a couple choices. I still think people should pick cars because they are good-all-around cars that will grow well as needed over a season on a variety of tracks.

If you are still looking for cars, let us know. I have a few extras in my garage and I'm still turning over my UCD.

p.s. Updated the first post.

 

[pyxen]

for whatever reason when I enter the room, sometimes I see people still loading in the lounge (ie: their box is grey and there's a progress bar scrolling below their name - I think they're called loading stripes or something) while they're in there...I'll keep trying to enter/exit to fix it, but I don't know what I can do.

Here's a blurb from another thread (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=219634)

Ive been having connection problems on GT5 for a long time. Mostly 716, but only 717 error after latest update.
The error message appears when you are trying to join room (private or public) If you get it you can not join!

Some times you can join, but will get disconnected after 10-60sec.

If you don't get disconnected you can see players with Loading Stripes (most people refer to the stripes as LS, the same stripes you see when people are entering the room and loading the track)
Players with these stripes can not be seen on the track. Usually you can drive through them as if they are not there, but you will not know where they are. All the other drivers will see both of you. Its really annoying for all players!

Sound familiar?

Oh, and sometimes when people leave, everyone starts to show up...didn't have a problem later on. Same kind of problems seem to affect my mic too - if there are too many/certain players online in the lounge, my connection goes wonky. Don't know who, tho...

 

[Diabolical_J]

is this full? if not, i'd like to join.

 

[BTK]

The only person I have problems seeing is pyxie sticks, but the mic thing is common. Mostly when chuyler jumps in, mine completely quits.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

is this full? if not, i'd like to join.

Yes. I will keep you at the top of the reserve list, in case someone drops from the season early.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Let's bump Wiifreak and let another Diabolic in

 

[WiiFreak]

Let's bump Wiifreak and let another Diabolic in

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Consider that a compliment Wii. See you on the track.