Lemons Season 4: Next Race on 29 November

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My sera refreshed to 347. dont recall were the cosmos went to but i had one other car go to 346. when was practice last night? I was on for 4 hours...was it in someones lounge? btw ill be running the sera tonight. if i have to limit it...i will since its only practice. track list will ultimately decide how loose of a car (cosmos) im willing to run.
 
i sent you a message, it was in my lounge. I think my Sera came to 347 as well. I did not test drive it.
 
BTK
Pyxie Sticks: I have a handful of 345 car's that are quick, if you need something let me know. There is only one that I'm hanging on to atm.

No MGs, or MR(-2/-S), etc..this season. Lets stick with cars that will offer more of a challenge.

BuTterKup, if you have something you think would be interesting for me..pass it along.
 
track list will ultimately decide how loose of a car (cosmos) im willing to run.

In previous seasons, we've seen people pick a car simply to do well at La Sarthe. As a result, I'm not releasing the tracks until the cars are selected (and in all honesty, I haven't even considered picking the tracks, yet, until I settle on a car, which I have nearly done).

If you want to run a car that is over the 345, I think we can go with 350. I think everyone would be comfortable, but I think the thought is 345 if we can manage it. So, tonight, if you would like, we can run some sprints at 345 and then some at 350 (so have a 345 car picked out, too).

As to track selection, I'm going to try an alternate twisty technical tracks with speedier tracks. If we all wind up driving FFs, it won't separate the cars as it did in the past, but it will still separate the drivers. It is a shame, really. I don't want to exclude a class of cars, I just want to balance things.

Do you guys consider Deep Forest twisty or speedy? If the generated tracks didn't have a half-mile straight, I'd consider Hairpin Mt. twisty.
 
I think a lot of people would say it is unfair for you to pick your car before you have selected the tracks. I think you should publish the track list so we can all test cars on the tracks that will be used in the season. That is how it has been done in the past. Whether le Sarthe is on the schedule or not, I think we have the right to know what we are signing up for.

As for Deep Forest. It really depends on what direction you are going. The reverse configuration is a high speed romp with cars below 450pp. There are a few finesse corners but a fast car will dominate on the long WOT sections of the track. The forward configuration brings up cheating red flags more so than forward. The cheater line has you going full throttle onto the concrete and braking hard while still on it. The proper line requires a slower entry to avoid the concrete...A mass of confusion ensues when some drivers take one line and other drivers take another line. I simply don't like this track in the forward configuration for series racing because of this.
 
I think a lot of people would say it is unfair for you to pick your car before you have selected the tracks.

Sorry, I was trying to be in the same boat, picking a car without knowing the course selection.

Last season, I picked my car before I started opening the PMs where people were sending me their car selection.

But, for me, the track selection doesn't affect my car choice. There are only so many cars that I can drive. At this PP range, there aren't many FRs, and two that I've driven haven't really jumped out at me. One even feels a little dangerous. The other just felt sluggish.

Since I want a car that will last the whole season, I'm leaning toward the Beetle, since it has a 2 liter engine, it should get a bit of power to it. I have driven a fully blown Exa (450 PP if I remember correctly). So the last thing I want to do is see how big the Beetle gets before I decide.

That is my short list. And I'm really leaning toward the Beetle. What I really want, though, is to spend a season driving a car that someone else is going to drive just so I can see how it should work. For that reason, I'm still considering the Exa, except it will be like last season. Everyone will move away, and the one driver that picks it will drop out.

Still, regardless of track selection, that's my logic so far.

Does track selection really make a difference for others? If so, how? I could understand if it were all twisty or all high-speed.
 
Yes it does make a difference. I don't want to run something as twitchy as the Cosmo at Nurburgring Nordeschleife. I also wouldn't want to run a sluggish car like the Mitsu Mirage at Monza or le Sarthe.

I'm willing to pick a challenging car, but I need to know what the challenge is up front. If we race Deep Forest, Monza, le Sarthe, and a bunch of other quick tracks, even with additional funds the Mirage will be impossible to win with. However on tracks like Autumn Ring, Cape Ring Inside, etc, it could actually have a chance.
 
Yes it does make a difference. I don't want to run something as twitchy as the Cosmo at Nurburgring Nordeschleife. I also wouldn't want to run a sluggish car like the Mitsu Mirage at Monza or le Sarthe.

I'm willing to pick a challenging car, but I need to know what the challenge is up front. If we race Deep Forest, Monza, le Sarthe, and a bunch of other quick tracks, even with additional funds the Mirage will be impossible to win with. However on tracks like Autumn Ring, Cape Ring Inside, etc, it could actually have a chance.

Well, I'm hoping to have a balance of those tracks. This was my plan for picking tracks (and if it is upsetting to others, than we can do this today):

We will include a generated track. Right now, that track is Hairpin Mt, but it has the rain bug. I think you can fix it. If not, then could you try to generate something similar to it? That track is going on the docket, just a question of where.

I wanted to add Spa to the docket, but that may be upsetting. So far, I haven't heard anyone actually say that they won't be getting the track.

Arrange the tracks by number of votes (and the Nordeschleife wasn't in there, so it isn't an option).

The top vote getting time change track goes into the season as the anchor track (we will run it with time step of 1 for preseason and time step of 24 for the last race). I suspect all of the time change tracks are rather speedy. (And I just thought of something, I don't know how many tracks are actually time change. It may only be La Sarthe and Nordschiefle. If that is the case, then it will come down to votes, and we may not run time change).

The top weather change track goes into the season. I suspect this may, too, be speedy.

Now, pick the top speedy tracks so we have three total.

Now, pick the top twisty tracks so we have three total.

The tough part comes with picking the first track of the season. It may just be GVE-R, but I want something short like that. It is possible that Hairpin Mt can fill in here. I'm also wondering about Deep Forest. But, it all depends on what is left over, and short and kind of balanced in a way.

The other tricky part comes with the sprint night idea. I think there will be enough votes that we'll have to do at least one night of it. I am really not sure how this concept is going to affect things. I have a bit of fear that we might be changing too much. The question is, which tracks do we bump to do it.

Actually, as I think about it now, I hate the idea even more. To be fair, we really have to bump two weeks to do this. We have to bump a twisty track and a fast track in order to do this. And we have to find a short track that is relatively fast to be fair.

Another random thought: the sprint track should be relatively short. If there aren't many good passing opportunities, I don't want the one good passing chance to be so far away that it takes four minutes to get back to it.

Anyway, that was how I was going to pick the tracks. I was hoping they would pick themselves for the most part by the voting. I could see a problem if everyone voted for speedy or twisty, meaning I now have to pick or break a tie. If I do have to do that, it depends on how many times I have to do that and how many tracks we have on the docket that haven't been in the series in a previous season. I'd like to keep it balanced between tracks we've run before and ones we haven't, so there is some continuity. So, for example, if the top vote gets are all new tracks we haven't run before, and I have to break a tie down the road, I'll pick a track that we have run before.
 
My choices are twitchy, boxy, handling and speed. I'm leaning towards boxy, but twitchy has a shot if we're on road courses.
 
The only time change tracks are Nurb and le Sarthe (I think). Since we did both last season I really don't think we need a time change this season. We have yet to do Monza in the rain so I'd recommend that for the wet track. The only other wet tracks are Eiger and HSR. One is too tight and difficult for full-damage lemons racing (no passing locations), and the other is too straight for the power class of lemons racing. So I think Monza in the rain is a good finale.

For the generated track, I guess that's the one I currently have shared. I'll open it up in edit mode and see if i can fix it. Not sure what the rain bug is but I'm guessing it is something to do with version changes since it was created. It is a Mt. Aso track, which I don't think allows time change. Does anyone know if the Toscana tarmac course allows time change, or is it just time of day? I will mess with this tonight when I get home. Garris, if you are going to host tonight, check my profile for a new track to download beforehand. We should try to run it with a full lobby of 345pp cars.

As for the sprint track concept. The whole point is to pick a short track with very little/short passing opportunities. Drivers shouldn't expect to go from last to first, even when they have a fast car. They just need to run a blocking line to keep everyone behind them. Tsukuba, London, Cape Ring inside, or Autumn Ring Mini are perfect for this. There are short places to pass, but usually you can't get by unless the other person makes a mistake and gives up the inside line.
 
For the generated track, I guess that's the one I currently have shared. I'll open it up in edit mode and see if i can fix it. Not sure what the rain bug is but I'm guessing it is something to do with version changes since it was created. It is a Mt. Aso track, which I don't think allows time change. Does anyone know if the Toscana tarmac course allows time change, or is it just time of day? I will mess with this tonight when I get home. Garris, if you are going to host tonight, check my profile for a new track to download beforehand. We should try to run it with a full lobby of 345pp cars.

Yeah, it is a 2.0 bug. And new tracks aren't affected. I'm hoping if you edit and resave it, it will remove the rain.

Toscana will only let you do a window during the day, not an entire 24 hour cycle.

I'll download the track before I open my lobby.
 
Well we could run a full night race at Toscana instead of a time change race. I think that would be a good compromise. I'm just sick of le Sarthe and Nurburgring isn't really about racing, its about not crashing.
 
London seems like it would be great for a sprint race, since it has no pit road.

The other tricky part comes with the sprint night idea. I think there will be enough votes that we'll have to do at least one night of it. I am really not sure how this concept is going to affect things. I have a bit of fear that we might be changing too much. The question is, which tracks do we bump to do it.

Actually, as I think about it now, I hate the idea even more. To be fair, we really have to bump two weeks to do this. We have to bump a twisty track and a fast track in order to do this. And we have to find a short track that is relatively fast to be fair.

Another random thought: the sprint track should be relatively short. If there aren't many good passing opportunities, I don't want the one good passing chance to be so far away that it takes four minutes to get back to it.

Why wouldn't we just do the sprint race on a technical track in a spot where there would be a twisty track anyway?
 
Why wouldn't we just do the sprint race on a technical track in a spot where there would be a twisty track anyway?

My fear is, we are bumping a full hour on a twisty track for sprint races. If that affects the results somehow, I'd hate for it to seem unbalanced. I fear we should also bump one of the fast tracks so we don't have too many of those during the season.
 
We could do two sprint races, one on a fast track and one on a technical track. Or we could stick to the same format as last season if it's too much for this season.
 
sprint race on a fast track won't be much fun. Each race will pretty much be over by turn 1 unless people get overzealous and go 5 wide into the turn.
 
sprint race on a fast track won't be much fun. Each race will pretty much be over by turn 1 unless people get overzealous and go 5 wide into the turn.

Scrap it then.
 
We could do two sprint races, one on a fast track and one on a technical track. Or we could stick to the same format as last season if it's too much for this season.

Not doing it got my vote.

sprint race on a fast track won't be much fun. Each race will pretty much be over by turn 1 unless people get overzealous and go 5 wide into the turn.

I don't really imagine sprint races on technical tracks will be much fun. To me, the concept really isn't clicking.

On a regular race: I don't qualify well, but I hope to pass someone as they crash or pit. I try not to crash myself. I finish in the bottom third.

On a sprint race: I don't qualify well, and no one pits. Damage is low, so even if people wreck, they will still be quick. I finish in the bottom third. We do reverse grid start. Someone rams into the back of me, because I'm slow. I finish bottom third.

The results are the same, there is just more work involved in the sprint idea. I'm sure there is something that I'm not understanding.
 
Hahahaha. Maybe it's because it's been a long day at work and I'm ready to go home and race, but that really made me laugh! Actually, it's probably funny because I'm sure it'll be describing me this season, too.

Maybe I'll refer to you as "BT" from now on. (Bottom Third) :sly:

And I'm guessing you guys have computer jobs that allow you to monitor the forums during the day as well? :)
 
And I'm guessing you guys have computer jobs that allow you to monitor the forums during the day as well? :)

Yes, and I am working from home today, as most days. I do have to go into the office tomorrow morning.

Today I'm working on a Perl script that is called by a Windows shell script inside a Cygwin session (so there are also two versions of Perl installed with different libraries). Troubleshooting is a huge pain because it is a box inside a box inside a box. It behaves completely differently when I call it manually than when the application calls it.
 
I can see you now... sitting on your couch with your fuzzy bunny slippers on. Hacking away at your laptop... That annoying UCD music playing in the background... :dopey:


Which brings up a question. Is loading 5 license tests still the fastest way to flip the UCD?
 
Which brings up a question. Is loading 5 license tests still the fastest way to flip the UCD?

That's the way I do it.

Right now, though, I'm upstairs in the home office. The PS3 is downstairs. It is trying to run B-Spec races, but I've had some problems with that the last couple of days. I suspect there is a network problem at home. :(

Every fifth race I go downstairs and check the UCD. :)

I am dressed, though. I have to take the kids to school every morning, so I have to get up and get dressed.
 
Ok, four things

1. Deep Forest Reverse is the only way I would do it, and it's a fast track.

2. Trial Mountain should be run forward because it's much slower and I would consider it a slower track.

3. If we do a sprint race, I would suggest Tsukuba. It will make sure that draft passing happens for the fast FF's, and it will also force them to wear tires out faster due to having out brake someone else.

4. Also, if we do a sprint race, I would want just two segments, because 5 6 lap segments would just mean the person who was sent to the back will just ride and then sent right back up to the front again.
 
Yeah, I must have missed something on the sprint race thing, I thought the plan was to do two races and flip the field in the middle.

Nevermind, I just re-read Huyler's post. I still think two races would work better.
 
In terms of tracks and event selections I am pretty open to whatever. I race in the low hp league (run 98hp kei based cars) and run races that last about 45 minutes. The tracks are all the smaller ones, Tsukuba, Autumn Mini, etc. I also run in the Capp Cup which has a neat seasonal layout. We have some races on bigger tracks that are considered enduros (20-25 laps). We run other tracks, mostly smaller like Suzuka East and Madrid Mini in a double header format. Both races in the same night, about 10-15 laps each. The first race is based on qualifying. The second is inverted from race 1. Very exciting for all involved.
 
I get to work from home 3 days a week, but today is an office day. I'm learning a new front end development platform so we can support the iPad. Sencha Touch. Normally I work with Adobe ActionScript, Flash, and Flex. I hate JavaScript with a fiery passion so this project has been major suckage for me. But the fact I get to develop an iPad app is cool a least.

As for refreshing the UCD. Try this instead. Fire up an A-spec sunday cup race.
1) Start the race
2) As soon as the cars are moving hit "start"
3) Exit race
4) repeat 6 times.
5) exit A-spec and check out your UCD.

You can repeat this much faster than loading 6 license tests since the track is only loaded once. Each start of a race is apparently considered a day in GT life.


For BTK's comment, I agree with items 1-3. However I would like to see multiple 8-10 lap races for the sprint night. However I understand Garris's reservations about the idea. He certainly will hold up drivers when he's up at the front...and it could produce some chaos mid pack...but that's where the excitement lies. It's not just about passing, but also about making sure the guy behind you doesn't punt you. Apex early and leave room on the outside of the track....and take your revenge on the next sprint if you feel slighted.
 
Yes. I guess we should meet in Garris' lounge. I need to work on a custom track first, but I'll drop into his lounge around 9:30-10:00 for some test races.
 
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