LeMONS to LeMANS Season 3 [Wednesday]

[sl3ight]

Well, I had suspicions before the race, but it seems obvious afterwards, the patch changed the physics. Before it I was probably in contention for a mid-pack finish, but after, despite no major crashes, dead last.

The previously stable Varietta seemed to want to spin itself if I so much as breathed on the throttle too early coming out of a corner, and it also seemed to be 10 times worse than previous on the 5 laps it takes to warm up tires, so by then I didn't even have a draft to follow. If I'd known it would be like this, I just would've run the FTO both nights.

I only drove the Varietta once before the patch. I thought it handled great on Tuesday and on Fuji tonight. The first couple laps are a bit tough but you've just got to drive really hard to get heat into the tires. Forget about mechanical sympathy. After that they hold heat quite well and you can settle into a consistant pace. I think the SHs will dial out the understeer issues I was having with it.

The Legend Continues:
We hope you all enjoy reading these stories, as we absolutely love writing them. Maybe one day we'll have followers, but that's like asking for Rednecks to vote Democrat. We love feedback, and any suggestions are appreciated. Night boys.

If you two keep writing these things I'll try to draw it*.






*My skill is limited, there are no guarantees. Not your personal mangaka, etc, etc.

 

[Durandal7]

I only drove the Varietta once before the patch. I thought it handled great on Tuesday and on Fuji tonight. The first couple laps are a bit tough but you've just got to drive really hard to get heat into the tires. Forget about mechanical sympathy. After that they hold heat quite well and you can settle into a consistant pace. I think the SHs will dial out the understeer issues I was having with it.

What do you run for brake balance, and what mods did you do to make PP?

I probably should've done all power mods instead of all lightening, to help warm the tires faster, and I know absolutely nothing about tuning, so didn't really know what to do for the brakes.

 

[BTK]

LOL. You can draw them if you want, just adds to the fun!

Also: CRAP! I can't believe I robbed myself of 2nd place. I was on a low 1.49 lap, and missed the inside apex, car didn't turn and I nailed the wall on the uphill section. Oh well, win some lose some

 

[pyxen]

I'm glad I popped in to watch the race - it was a good one

I think I finally got my mic sorted. I had it paired to my blackberry too (which was on, but bluetooth was off), and I think it had an adverse reaction to the connection with the PS3 during gameplay. No idea why...

After I removed the connection from my BB, it seemed to work fine in Huyler's lounge.

 

[sl3ight]

What do you run for brake balance, and what mods did you do to make PP?

I probably should've done all power mods instead of all lightening, to help warm the tires faster, and I know absolutely nothing about tuning, so didn't really know what to do for the brakes.

I did Weight Reduction Stage 1 and Window Weight Reduction.

 

[BTK]

I liked the 70' Skyline you ran Sleight, it's just like my fairlady. Super easy on tires. I did all I could to stretch my tires, but WiiFreak rocked my world by averaging 1.50's in a FWD with decent tire wear.

 

[chuyler1]

Well, I had suspicions before the race, but it seems obvious afterwards, the patch changed the physics. Before it I was probably in contention for a mid-pack finish, but after, despite no major crashes, dead last.

This is absolutely not true. I ran the same lap times last night as I did in our practice sessions. Furthermore, I ran practice laps in my GT500 car on Saturday night and put down a best lap of 1:56.004 at GP/F. When I qualified for the race, on Tuesday my time was 1:56.100, good enough for the pole. I didn't change a thing on the car between Saturday and Tuesday. The NSX was very sensitive to spring rates and LSD settings so I'm glad I didn't have to retune it.

I watched a few of you laps (laps 9 to 12). Man your tires really don't warm up. Very odd. In general though, I think you were going too deep into corners before braking. Slower entry would have set your car up for faster exit speeds. Instead you were stuck in limbo waiting for the car to stop understeering. Often times you wouldn't be on the throttle until you had completely tracked out. If you can't be on the throttle at the corner apex, you are entering to fast.

 

[BTK]

Did that thing we talked about, help chuyler?

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Weight 1 should have been the first thing for anyone whose car was 1200+ only because its relatively expensive and to get it out of the way is important. The ECU the folks will put on after last night will be better bang for the buck next week than this week. Same thing goes for the low RPM turbos added for Autumn Ring

You can view parts added to any car through the individual spreadsheet pages BTW

 

[chuyler1]

Bowtie, what thing?

 

[BTK]

Weight 1 should have been the first thing for anyone whose car was 1200+ only because its relatively expensive and to get it out of the way is important. The ECU the folks will put on after last night will be better bang for the buck next week than this week. Same thing goes for the low RPM turbos added for Autumn Ring

You can view parts added to any car through the individual spreadsheet pages BTW

What if I bought err spensive ting, I could buy to get at 385pp. Low range turbo sounds fun, but it also sounds like I'll spin the whole time. I think I have a plan that will confuse people.

Chuyler- The Toe thing.

 

[morbo]

great racing last night

lots of action all over the place

0 pit stop strategies messed up other drivers' hopeful positions

i wonder if that would've been possible with 15-30 more minutes of racing

 

[chuyler1]

Standings have been updated. I will be inspecting vehicles shortly. By tonight you can unshare your cars and spend your rewards. Please PM me what you have installed so I can update the spreadsheet. I need selections by 12:00PM race day but the sooner you get them to me the better.

https://docs.google.com/a/huyler.ne...9OdENsOFNTN0Zld0NJV2RFRjlKWWdYMWc&output=html

Please note, the results have been adjusted based on reports of cheating. As a reminder to all. We race using GTP OLR which implies 2 wheels must be on the track at all times. Please do not cut apexes by driving through the dirt. If you run wide unintentionally that can be understandable...and you should take caution entering the track after you do so. But do not make a habit of cutting corners or running wide...especially next week at Fuji. Given that the track has incredibly large run-off areas, I suggest keeping 2 wheels inside the white line when you track out. If you are caught consistently putting 4 wheels outside the white line and driving through the run-off area, you will be deducted as much as 2 seconds per incident.

 

[BTK]

Where's the link to standings? Lol.

 

[chuyler1]

sorry, i was adding it along with additional comments. adding it to the first post now.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

I'm at work and can't see spreadsheet, so I no nothing of the standings change. However somewhere in the mid 20 laps I completely missed the corkscrew, e-braked and tumbled through the grass. I nearly spun trying to save from crashing into inside wall for next left hander, so I'm assuming I'm not implicated. However, if I was for that, I'll understand.

 

[chuyler1]

Nope...I did something similar when my pedals got disconnected. I coasted up the hill and couldn't brake so I coasted through the dirt until I figured out what was going on. 10 seconds later I went from a possible 2nd place finish to 4th.

 

[Durandal7]

I did Weight Reduction Stage 1 and Window Weight Reduction.

Yeah, same here on parts, so that's not it. I take it you're unwilling to give me any help re: brake balance, then?

I watched a few of you laps (laps 9 to 12). Man your tires really don't warm up. Very odd. In general though, I think you were going too deep into corners before braking. Slower entry would have set your car up for faster exit speeds. Instead you were stuck in limbo waiting for the car to stop understeering. Often times you wouldn't be on the throttle until you had completely tracked out. If you can't be on the throttle at the corner apex, you are entering to fast.

I'm not sure what was going on during those laps, but that was far enough into the race that I was probably not even really trying anymore since I was so far behind. If you have any ideas on how to get the tires to actually warm up fast enough to not be out of contention entirely by the time they do, I'd be happy to hear them.

 

[chuyler1]

CS tires are tough. If you get them warm, they quickly lose grip and/or tread. If you watch some of the replay you'll see bowtie and I still had relatively cool front tires but where chewing through rear tires quite quickly.

There are tons of theories related to setting brake balance, but the best thing to do is experiment with it. In MR cars and some FR cars, drop the rear bias a click or two if the car is unstable under braking. In FF cars, sometimes increasing the rear bias will help rotate the car. Once you get the balance right, experiment with lowering the settings equally. You'll lose a little bit of initial bite, but it will reduce the amount of heat you put into the tires freeing up some grip for turn in.

Here's the approach i took with the MR2:
5/5: Car turns to snap oversteer followed by drifting in almost every corner
5/4: Slight improvement on turns 2, 5, and 11 at Laguna Seca
5/3: Much more neutral feel and no fear of oversteer. Might have been slower but consistency is key
4/3: Removed tendency to understeer into corkscrew entrance. Front tires didn't heat up as much but slightly earlier braking point was required. Not once did I overheat my tires during braking. Lap times improved when I could brake longer and deeper into turns without fear of overheating the tires.

 

[sl3ight]

Yeah, same here on parts, so that's not it. I take it you're unwilling to give me any help re: brake balance, then?



I'm not sure what was going on during those laps, but that was far enough into the race that I was probably not even really trying anymore since I was so far behind. If you have any ideas on how to get the tires to actually warm up fast enough to not be out of contention entirely by the time they do, I'd be happy to hear them.

My brake bias was 4/5. I came in 3rd on Tuesday in the same exact car you're running. If I hadn't pit I would've been closer to 2nd.

 

[Durandal7]

sl3ight: I was running 5/4 or 6/5, I forget which, though after experimenting with 4/5 I'm guessing I just have no clue how to drive that car compared to you.

Huyler: I guess that's why real-life racing only uses slicks. I can only hope I will have an easier time on less temperamental tires next week.

 

[chuyler1]

After our quick race at Fuji, I think turn 1 is going to be tricky as tires wear down. If I brake early it feels like I'm giving up tons of time...but when I brake late I go flying wide when the tires build up too much heat. Add to that drafting speeds and I suspect we'll have the grass on the outside of turn 1 short enough to play golf on by the end of the race.

 

[Cujo 940]

Look going through the dirt is just faster. And it was fun catching dabneyd. And its about fun. So dock me positions, who cares. Purple pants cannot be defeated (except by even better purple pants). Bwahahaha

 

[BTK]

You've got that wrong Chuyler. If an MR or FR car is unstable under brake, you raise rear brake. It causes the car to have a more straight line approach to the corner. The point in having a lower rear brake, is to have force the car to rotate. You don't need to do that in an MR on CS. My brake balance was 3/7, and I made 18, could've went the whole race. But I think Wii would've beat me, which he did anyways lol.

 

[pyxen]

BTK, you have that backwards...how does having a lower rear brake rotate the car, if the tires continue to have grip, and not spin out ?

Having lower rear bias means that as the weight shifts to the front, and you lose traction at the back end, you don't lock up because there isn't as much power going to the brakes. Too high, and it kicks out...which is why I run my civic at 1/8, to get it to oversteer.

 

[Cujo 940]

I made the race really exciting by cutting corners to try to run down dabney. In no way did that gain me 2 sec per lap all the time. Let me say it only cost me one point but got me an additional $2500. Bwahahaha thanks for the engine 1 free upgrade

 

[pyxen]

don't boast too much..lest you have it taken away!

 

[BTK]

BTK, you have that backwards...how does having a lower rear brake rotate the car, if the tires continue to have grip, and not spin out ?

Having lower rear bias means that as the weight shifts to the front, and you lose traction at the back end, you don't lock up because there isn't as much power going to the brakes. Too high, and it kicks out...which is why I run my civic at 1/8, to get it to oversteer.

A fwd doesn't use the same principle. A Front engine rwd car doesn't even use the same tuning as an MR as a matter of fact.

The purpose of rotating is too take the weight off the back. The less weight, the easier and lighter the rear wheels are. Traction is not key, as the only point of rotating a car is to straighten your race line out. The more weight on the front also means an easier turn in, which means what? Rotation! You don't want the weight shifted to the back wheels in an MR car, because there is a fine line between under control, and spinning. The only time you stick weight on the back wheels is in a straight line. Besides, how can weight to the back be better on tires? The heavier a car is, the worst on tires it is.

You wondered why I was so fast in the last section? My line featured more straight lines than anyone. Plus, I was full throttle out of the last turn with ZERO wheelspin. Sure, chuylers car should have been faster down the front stretch but my exit speed was much higher, because I did not have to battle the weight in the back by straightening it up. I simply gassed it, weight transferred, and we're rolling.

Pyxen I absolutely agree with you since it's FWD. It doesn't work like that on a MR car, since most of the weight is already over rear axle. A fwd car has ALL of it's weight on the front axles, which is why you shift it to the rear. The point is to get a 50/50 weight balance while under different forces.

I hope you understand that this is all for braking. Your main objective in a corner is to get the best run and carry the most momentum onto the straight. If you have all the weight up front under braking, that means when you gas it, all the weight shifts to the rear for maximum traction.

 

[morbo]

Here are some images from the race.

Enjoy!

(let's see if this works)

 

[morbo]

ok it works

i'm not too familiar with the photomode

i tried to include everyone somewhere