CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,322
- United States
Liam's NA Miata - Finally back on the road!!!
- Thread starter LeadFootLiam
- 610 comments
- 34,929 views
- 34,949
- Indian Falls, NY
- slashfan7964
So what if it still weighs more? That doesn't mean the static overall weight is all that different. That, and 302s are wayyyyyy more affordable, have cheaper parts and way easier to find. I think that alone is worth the trade off of an extra 50lbs if that.
And that stuff wouldn't be included if you LS swapped it? Not sure what point you're trying to make. Your going to gain a couple hundred lbs sure. But for a few hundred horsies and torque? You'd be crazy not to.
- 4,605
- United States
- carracerptp
~200 is about right for a miata with a turbo. From what I have read, 280+ and you'll start finding the limits of the block. Sure it "could" be boosted up to 300HP but you would have to baby the car.
AND the cost would be huge.
If you want 300HP the formula is V8 and say goodbye to at least 10K.
An iron block V8 in these throws the balance way off. LSx is the best way, and there is no way you are doing that for $5k. Maybe twice that if you get used parts and do it yourself.
My 1990 with a stock motor, FM Voodoo kit at 12psi (at 5600ft elevation, lower elevation = less boost) made 195hp to the wheels. Consider a stock 1.6L makes all of 90hp to the wheels on a good day, that's a significant jump. The car ran a 14.00 @ 102mph at the track with a horrible 60-foot time. It was a 13 second car. Stock Mustang GT's were not a problem.200hp is plenty.
LS for sure, seems to be the weapon of choice in a miata or just about anything.
- 4,763
- Houston, TX
I think what he means is that a 400lb all aluminum LS weighs the same as a 400lb iron block Ford. 400lbs is still 400lbs.
- 34,949
- Indian Falls, NY
- slashfan7964
That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Static overall weight is going to be similar no matter what small block engine you use. A 302 or small block 350 would be better choices on a budget simply because cheap and availability. You will almost never find a good LS motor in a junkyard for cheap. Odds are Liam here isn't going to want to dump a ton of money on a complete drop in crate motor simply because he can't afford it right now. You can pull a running pushrods motor for a few hundreds bucks. Same with a transmission. I have personally priced this out with a Beetle by calling around and checking local yards and you can have a completely swapped car and be driveable for about $1500 including things like your radiator/supports, crossmember, motor and tranny mounts, rear axle (not needed here more than likely), engine wiring, and a few other things, and that's with minor suspension tweaks for better performance with the added weight if you want to do the work yourself. Odds are the bolt in 200hp and 300lb-ft in a 2,700lb car tops is going to be absolutely plenty for Liam.
It can be done. People do it with 4 cylinder Fox Bodies all the time. This isn't any different. There is kits out there made for this swap.
It can be done. People do it with 4 cylinder Fox Bodies all the time. This isn't any different. There is kits out there made for this swap.
- 8,847
- Ottawa
- Automotive_Buff
Lightweight power?
4AGE 20 Valve 1.6 litre & T-50
155 kg
Complete as fitted to car (less exhaust manifold)
T-50 5 speed
29 kg
RWD Gearbox as fitted to some Corollas, Coronas etc
Nissan SR 20 two litre
139 kg
Alloy block & head, manifolds, alternator, factory EFI
Nissan 5 speed
44 kg
5 speed gearbox fitted to SR 20 in Nissan 200 ZX etc
Nissan SR 20 & gearbox
183 kg
As fitted to car - sourced from Nissan 200 ZX etc
Source: AE86 Driving Club
If you want other lightweight options, the 3SGTE, 2ZZ-GE, or 4AGZE(supercharged version) could compliment the Miata well.
4AGE 20 Valve 1.6 litre & T-50
155 kg
Complete as fitted to car (less exhaust manifold)
T-50 5 speed
29 kg
RWD Gearbox as fitted to some Corollas, Coronas etc
Nissan SR 20 two litre
139 kg
Alloy block & head, manifolds, alternator, factory EFI
Nissan 5 speed
44 kg
5 speed gearbox fitted to SR 20 in Nissan 200 ZX etc
Nissan SR 20 & gearbox
183 kg
As fitted to car - sourced from Nissan 200 ZX etc
Source: AE86 Driving Club
If you want other lightweight options, the 3SGTE, 2ZZ-GE, or 4AGZE(supercharged version) could compliment the Miata well.
Last edited:
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,322
- United States
FM LSx conversion = less than 200lbs gained, distribution 52/48
Monster Miata = 250lbs gained, distribution 53/47
My guess is that 1% on the Monster is from the engine.
This is not a Beetle.
- 4,763
- Houston, TX
I'll keep my 50/50 1.8L. Or that 2.0L I'm building.
I can definitely see the benefits of an LS however.
I can definitely see the benefits of an LS however.
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
I can't afford a V8 swap, and don't have the know how either lol. All my friends say put a V8 in my car. They forget that it cost around 8-10 grand just in parts!! Find an engine and tranny, new subframe, all new drivetrain, wide body kit, wider wheels and tires. Plus the tools I need if I do it myself.
- 8,847
- Ottawa
- Automotive_Buff
*ahem*
These are very cheap engines that don't require half the work for a V8. You even have a kit for the SR20 from a company called Thai-Phoon.
- 1,591
- Under the Hood
You must have quite a few connections
If you know how to do your own metal fab and wiring I MIGHT see doing the swap for under 5k, but realistically you're looking at prices north of 10...
My 1990 with a stock motor, FM Voodoo kit at 12psi (at 5600ft elevation, lower elevation = less boost) made 195hp to the wheels. Consider a stock 1.6L makes all of 90hp to the wheels on a good day, that's a significant jump. The car ran a 14.00 @ 102mph at the track with a horrible 60-foot time. It was a 13 second car. Stock Mustang GT's were not a problem.
200hp is PLENTY for a sub 3000lb car.
V8 swap is a huge and expensive project. While maybe not feasible now, it's definitely something you should look into down the road. 450+hp in a 2,200lb car? Poor man's Arial Atom
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,322
- United States
As much as I am an SR20 fanatic, the BP engines in the Miata are pretty stout. I watched a bone stock Mazdaspeed Miata make 300whp on 93 octane with an upgraded turbo. Even the 1.6L will reliably make 250whp. Mine was just lower because I went with the smaller turbo for better response.*ahem*
These are very cheap engines that don't require half the work for a V8. You even have a kit for the SR20 from a company called Thai-Phoon.
- 34,949
- Indian Falls, NY
- slashfan7964
The guy bought the car for 11k and it runs 10s.You must have quite a few connections
If you know how to do your own metal fab and wiring I MIGHT see doing the swap for under 5k, but realistically you're looking at prices north of 10...
200hp is PLENTY for a sub 3000lb car.
V8 swap is a huge and expensive project. While maybe not feasible now, it's definitely something you should look into down the road. 450+hp in a 2,200lb car? Poor man's Arial Atom
- 1,435
- Mission, British Columbia
- BC_BOYZZ
Leave the 1.6 in it... Too many people ruining these Miatas with V8's
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
Hell, I might just turbo it later on. Get a Garret Begi-s System, for 2 grand. @R1600Turbo is boosting the Miata easy? Seems fairly straight forward.
- 4,605
- United States
- carracerptp
Everyone is all wrong, what Liam needs is a V12 JAggg poweraa
Really though, something tells me even a turbo will be more of a future project for him.
These car are some much fun even though they are "technically" slow.
Really though, something tells me even a turbo will be more of a future project for him.
These car are some much fun even though they are "technically" slow.
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
No, I need a diesel swap! So I can roll coal on the Prius.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,322
- United States
If you buy a kit, sure. My old roomate and I started on my car on a Sunday around noon, fired the car up running just on the turbo outlet pipe at 11pm. I got up the next day and installed the rest of the exhaust, set the timing, and drove it to work. Two days later it dyno'd 195whp. (Garrett 2554 turbo - itty bitty thing) Of course I'm biased and would recommend the FM kit (specifically for the silicone hoses) but do what you wish.
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
If you buy a kit, sure. My old roomate and I started on my car on a Sunday around noon, fired the car up running just on the turbo outlet pipe at 11pm. I got up the next day and installed the rest of the exhaust, set the timing, and drove it to work. Two days later it dyno'd 195whp. (Garrett 2554 turbo - itty bitty thing) Of course I'm biased and would recommend the FM kit (specifically for the silicone hoses) but do what you wish.
Good to know, why did you have to set the timing?
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,322
- United States
The base FM Voodoo kits use a piggy back ECU. Basically you still use the stock computer, but the "voodoo box" under boost tells the stock injectors to add additional fuel. To run this system as-is, you need to retard the base ignition timing. I did that at first, then I switched to an ignition box that allowed me to run stock timing and under boost it would retard the timing automatically. Then I switched to a full standalone Megasquirt ECU setup.
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
Small update, got new NGK Spark Plug wires.
The blue and red does look so bad IMO.
April is also going in for an alignment today, hopefully it fixes the clunk I'm having when I turn hard left, and full lock to the right.
The blue and red does look so bad IMO.
April is also going in for an alignment today, hopefully it fixes the clunk I'm having when I turn hard left, and full lock to the right.
- 8,847
- Ottawa
- Automotive_Buff
Although the 1.8 and 1.6 are pretty good and reliable engines, the SR20's give you 150HP out of the box. A cheap T50 turbo (if you got the N/A version) and you're up to 180-200. Of course the same could be achieved using the BP motors. I personally would choose Nissan's over the Miata's because I have a lot of friends with Nissans and parts for the engines left, right and centre.
A "clunk" doesn't sound like an alignment issue.
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
Okay, so got the alignment done. They tightened the passenger eccentric bolts, and squared up the alignment of the wheel etc.
Well the car feels balanced, and it doesn't as much as it used to.
The clunk is still there, although it takes harder turns for it to clunk, and the alignment doesn't change when it clunks.
So since it has been aligned, and it still clunks a little bit, next pay check I'm ordering these.
Atleast I know the problem and what is causing the clunk. Going to sign up for the next autocross and see how this car does.
Well the car feels balanced, and it doesn't as much as it used to.
The clunk is still there, although it takes harder turns for it to clunk, and the alignment doesn't change when it clunks.
So since it has been aligned, and it still clunks a little bit, next pay check I'm ordering these.
Atleast I know the problem and what is causing the clunk. Going to sign up for the next autocross and see how this car does.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,322
- United States
Agreed, most likely the bolts. When you get it realigned, have them set it to these settings.
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
I will. I talked to a Miata owner at a car meet with those alignment settings, said it worked super well on his NB.
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
Have some updates.
Finally got a wheel alignment, I told them to tighten down the eccentric bolts, and they did. When I got the car back and whipped around some corners, it still clunked. BUT, not as much. I have to corner harder, for it to clunk. It does feel tighter, whereas before it felt to loose. So since thats the case, I'll order new alignment bolts from 949 racing, put them on, and get it aligned again. Atleast I know what the problem is now! 👍
I got rid of my charcoal canister.
Three reasons
Its ugly
It doesn't do anything now
It will get rid of clutter in the engine bay.
Here is what it looks like, its that black round thing beside the coolant tank. Ugly right?
After removing some hoses, and bolts it came right out. Sorry for the horrible photo I didn't focus the camera properly.
I then gave it a good scrubbin
Does not make a huge difference but it does help a little bit. Definetly want this engine bay as clean as I can make it.
Also plastidipped my mirrors black.
Looks alright, it so subtle, I don't even notice it lol.
Finally got a wheel alignment, I told them to tighten down the eccentric bolts, and they did. When I got the car back and whipped around some corners, it still clunked. BUT, not as much. I have to corner harder, for it to clunk. It does feel tighter, whereas before it felt to loose. So since thats the case, I'll order new alignment bolts from 949 racing, put them on, and get it aligned again. Atleast I know what the problem is now! 👍
I got rid of my charcoal canister.
Three reasons
Its ugly
It doesn't do anything now
It will get rid of clutter in the engine bay.
Here is what it looks like, its that black round thing beside the coolant tank. Ugly right?
After removing some hoses, and bolts it came right out. Sorry for the horrible photo I didn't focus the camera properly.
I then gave it a good scrubbin
Does not make a huge difference but it does help a little bit. Definetly want this engine bay as clean as I can make it.
Also plastidipped my mirrors black.
Looks alright, it so subtle, I don't even notice it lol.
Attachments
CAMAROBOY69
Premium
- 18,567
- Michigan
- CAMAROBOY69
Don't forget to re-connect your coolant overflow hose or you might get a nasty surprise in your engine bay next time you go for a ride.
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