Licenses in GT6

[VenomDan]

It's always a bit of a shock to see an image I made almost a decade ago still being used around the internet. The merging looks pretty rough these days, too; I can see where I 'shopped them together. Oh, and that's Midfield, not Apricot Hill.

I miss Midfield, I loved that track...

 

[KilzoneStrife]

I miss Midfield, I loved that track...

Me too

 

[Davenstein]

Reading through all those posts here only one thing is clear to me: Whatever PD will do, there will be few people who like it and tons of people who would have done a "better job". Must be terrible to make decisions like this and knowing, that 80% of the people roughly will bash the hell out of you, not matter how that decision looks like...
Tough times for game designers, aye? Just sayin...

On topic: I liked Johnnypensos idea with the license-test being optional and giving you some sort of special livery or golden plate or something. Maybe one special car at the very end if you "gold 'em all", but yeah: Actually we all buy the game and pay good money for it, hence we should be able to access pretty much everything it has to offer sooner or later... very difficult topic in general and basically impossible to please everyone... :/

 

[dQuim]

I preferred the Licenses the way they were back in GT3. I think I got mostly silver and bronze, with a few golds.

If people do find them hard, maybe they can make bronze completion slightly easier but make the prize for bronze worse to balance it out? I think GT6 will be more accessible than previous titles so this could be the case.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Reading through all those posts here only one thing is clear to me: Whatever PD will do, there will be few people who like it and tons of people who would have done a "better job". Must be terrible to make decisions like this and knowing, that 80% of the people roughly will bash the hell out of you, not matter how that decision looks like...
Tough times for game designers, aye? Just sayin...

On topic: I liked Johnnypensos idea with the license-test being optional and giving you some sort of special livery or golden plate or something. Maybe one special car at the very end if you "gold 'em all", but yeah: Actually we all buy the game and pay good money for it, hence we should be able to access pretty much everything it has to offer sooner or later... very difficult topic in general and basically impossible to please everyone... :/

I think you can please most people with options but you're right, you'll never make everyone happy. Another option might be to allow players to run a single or two lap TT and as long as they hit a certain time, similar to the current TT standards for example, they pass the license test. I'd certainly be more up for that than going through 10 meaningless individual tests with endless loading times. Giving players the option of skipping the tests, running a TT, or running them all should cover most people.

 

[eSZee]

Look at that use of quotes.
Extraordinary!

 

[lazywolfe]

GT never really made this explicit or explained it, but some of those licenses exist in real life and as a racer you actually need them to go racing, such as the Super License. The requirements are a bit different, but that's another issue.

So my point is, as part of A-spec mode, they make sense as an attempt at realism. As part of other modes, maybe it's a bit tedious and unnecessary. I see a pattern...

 

[priesty_lfc]

The licences should be hard as that's the only way your going to improve as a driver.

The idea of special untradable cars would be good, maybe being able to choose 1 car out of a choice of 4 so there is a variation but certainly something that can't be gifted/traded.

 

[MSTER232]

Why don't we just agree on a system that heavily encourages the licenses to actually be played by it isn't a compulsory requirement? Licenses have always been a big part of GT6 for me and it would be be a big shame to see it go or be wasted like it was GT5. Personally I think that this would be a better option so that it is still there for people who enjoy them while so giving a fulfilling experience of completing them.

It's always a bit of a shock to see an image I made almost a decade ago still being used around the internet. The merging looks pretty rough these days, too; I can see where I 'shopped them together. Oh, and that's Midfield, not Apricot Hill.

Well what can you expect when the Internet is a very massive place with many users?

 

[Johnnypenso]

The licences should be hard as that's the only way your going to improve as a driver.

The idea of special untradable cars would be good, maybe being able to choose 1 car out of a choice of 4 so there is a variation but certainly something that can't be gifted/traded.

You improve as a driver by racing or practicing racing, not by performing stunts and novelty events.

 

[MSTER232]

You improve as a driver by racing or practicing racing, not by performing stunts and novelty events.

I agree but I think that people would enjoy the license tests more if they were related to more advanced racing skills that you would typically need in a race and not novice to intermediate stuff.

 

[TRLWNC7396]

Meaning what? Because you complete novelty events that have very little to do with actually racing or going fast, you should get what? Access to a car that I can't get if I don't do the same tests? If you go by that mindset, how about running a TT online and the top 200 get access to the latest NSX and no one else does? How about a Special Event where you have to hit a certain lap or sector time to qualify to drive a certain popular car in the game?

Everyone should have access to every car, given the credits to buy it. If you want recognition for completing certain events no problem, but restricting access to cars is not the way to do it.

But you miss the point. If you USE them to improve your driving, then you gain so much more than just game content.

The licences should be hard as that's the only way your going to improve as a driver.

The idea of special untradable cars would be good, maybe being able to choose 1 car out of a choice of 4 so there is a variation but certainly something that can't be gifted/traded.

Exactly.

This said, I have never finished all of the licence tests in ALL of the GT games but 2. (And, yes, I've played them all!) It was ALWAYS a thrill when I got a license and started looking around at races to do and found more that I could access! I LOVED that part!

Then, in 5, the Xpoints took over the advancing, and the only way to advance was to grind. I didn't become a better driver, in fact, I got sloppier half the time. LAME!

I would like to have the license tests be worth taking, AND I would like to know that I have to use that knowledge and experience to race better against the other drivers. This did NOT happen in 5, especially with the B-system......

 

[Vivi22]

I strongly disagree with idea of making license tests mandatory for races. I see no valid reason to lock content in single player behind a skill barrier. Same goes for the idea of cars obtainable through license tests. They can make them as hard as they want otherwise.

 

[Timber]

What do you make of the career mode screenshot on the GT6 website?

I'm talking about the screenshot where it says you must have 15 stars before you can take the B licence. Above the licence it says "final test for novice".

I would speculate from this that licences will be compulsory to progress to the next class, but they will take a different structure with the races contributing to the licence.

 

[Predwolf]

I have to disagree. That's an archaic game mechanic that should stay in the past.

I think it would be better if certain cars had a counterpart with an exclusive paint job, and perhaps slightly more power, that could only be obtained through golding licenses. They could be like the special black cars in GT4. But please, there's no logical reason to lock away unique cars behind golding licenses.

...What?

Prize cars that cannot be obtained normally were a staple of the GT series before 5. Every single GT had cars like this, and they were trophies in their own right.

I hated how GT5 handled prize cars, and the idea that everybody should get everything just because people don't want to work for it is stupid.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

...What?

Prize cars that cannot be obtained normally were a staple of the GT series before 5. Every single GT had cars like this, and they were trophies in their own right.

I hated how GT5 handled prize cars, and the idea that everybody should get everything just because people don't want to work for it is stupid.

And before 5, online play was impossible. In this day and age, where online racing is very popular in GT and other racing games, I don't think it's a good idea to lock away certain cars behind golding licenses and endurance races. This hinders the development of online racing leagues if people have to do some specific event in the game in order to obtain a certain car. This is especially a problem for people who just want to jump into online racing as soon as possible and not bother with the career mode. Like I said, it's an archaic game mechanic that doesn't adapt well with the fact that GT is no longer just about playing offline. Just because it's been in GT since 1998 doesn't mean it's still a good idea today.

And as I also said in the post you quoted, special variations of existing cars that can only be obtained through golding licenses and winning certain events can fill that gap. Problem solved.

 

[Predwolf]

And before 5, online play was impossible. In this day and age, where online racing is very popular in GT and other racing games, I don't think it's a good idea to lock away certain cars behind golding licenses and endurance races. This hinders the development of online racing leagues if people have to do some specific event in the game in order to obtain a certain car. This is especially a problem for people who just want to jump into online racing as soon as possible and not bother with the career mode. Like I said, it's an archaic game mechanic that doesn't adapt well with the fact that GT is no longer just about playing offline.

And as I also said in the post you quoted, special variations of existing cars that can only be obtained through golding licenses and winning certain events can fill that gap. Problem solved.

If the only reason you can think of to keep unique prize cars out of the game is because of online racing leagues, then I don't know what to tell you. If your league depends on a specific, ultra-rare car that you have to work for, then perhaps you should either work hard enough to earn it, or perhaps create another league with other cars.

The stealth cars were nice, but that's a cop out in regards to "unique" cars. If you put in the time and effort to gold every single S-class licence, you should be rewarded with something that shows you are dedicated, patient, and have a good set of driving skills - not something that is a different colour than a car everybody else can buy.

 

[priesty_lfc]

You improve as a driver by racing or practicing racing, not by performing stunts and novelty events.

Yes but the licences also help.

Some of them are easy and maybe pointless but the principles do help you in racing side of the game, joining a lobby with someone who is new to the GT series and racing online vs someone who takes the time to get to know driving technics via the licences is going to be a completely different experience.

 

[Force-Feedback]

Here's my fix:

1 Have licences compulsory but to have a few starting races/series which is free to enter (which has been done before).
2 Have better licence tests that are relevant for racing and not 'knocking cones over' or whatever.*
3 To have a 'learn to drive' bit that isn't compulsory for ANY race but just for people new to driving games to get used to driving.
4 If there are cars rewarded for achieving all golds in a test, then make it so that we can get the car if we went back to the tests to redo them up to gold standard even if we have already passed the licence with bronze and silver.

Not everyone can agree with what SHOULD be done so the above is only what I would like to see. I hear about cars being locked to licences which is a good idea and a stupid one at the same time, it'll just be easier to have the race series be limited to the relevant licences which brings me back to point #2 *: If we need say International B licence for Super GT series, then to have the I-B licence tests relevant to those kind of cars/races we'll be using that would require that licence.

Well, that's my opinions on a fix in a constructive way though it tempts me to mention my concern over prize cars and what races are actually available (bring back the world championship format from GT2: races by country, then continent, then world, or something similar like that).

 

[Stotty]

No need to link any of the rest of the game to them, but please make the licenses in GT6 rock hard to gold - or at least make a few of them super difficult. And no 'kiddie physics' skid recovery force this time please - I want to have to work at them a bit, not gold them on my 1st or 2nd try.

GT5 licenses with SRF enabled were rubbish - golded all 60 less than 24 hours after getting my copy, including having to run other events to level up. Some of the licenses in previous versions of the game were a real challenge and took me hours and hours to pass.

 

[Giulietta73]

I think it would be good for your license times to be collated in a friends-list/regional/global leaderboard like the time & drift trials. Then those that found gold easy can compete with others for the kudos points! (Obviously it would have to be hack-free...!!)

 

[C_Raccoon23]

If the only reason you can think of to keep unique prize cars out of the game is because of online racing leagues, then I don't know what to tell you. If your league depends on a specific, ultra-rare car that you have to work for, then perhaps you should either work hard enough to earn it, or perhaps create another league with other cars.

So what if I want to make an F1 league but the FGT is locked behind some endurance race, just like how it was locked until you do the Nurburgring 24H in GT4? Even if I do manage to get that car myself, what if I couldn't arouse enough interest due to hoops you need to jump through to get the car? Am I just out of luck and should do something else? That doesn't sound fair.

The stealth cars were nice, but that's a cop out in regards to "unique" cars. If you put in the time and effort to gold every single S-class licence, you should be rewarded with something that shows you are dedicated, patient, and have a good set of driving skills - not something that is a different colour than a car everybody else can buy.

Where did I say that the cars would only be a different color? They could have an exclusive livery and could also have extra power compared to their real counterpart. I also don't see why a unique car is required to show off a person's dedication and skill. The Sebastian Vettel challenge is the hardest event in GT5, and all you got for doing that was a carbon X2010. But that still didn't stop people from golding it and being proud of the fact that they beat it.

 

[Stotty]

I think it would be good for your license times to be collated in a friends-list/regional/global leaderboard like the time & drift trials. Then those that found gold easy can compete with others for the kudos points! (Obviously it would have to be hack-free...!!)

Brilliant idea... gives a reason to keep coming back to them 👍

I remember the 190e Touring Car S license (Full lap of the 'Ring so must have been GT4?) and the hours I spent lowering my time on that one for a board challenge.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes but the licences also help.

Some of them are easy and maybe pointless but the principles do help you in racing side of the game, joining a lobby with someone who is new to the GT series and racing online vs someone who takes the time to get to know driving technics via the licences is going to be a completely different experience.

No offense, but if you are that new to the series that you're actually learning something in license tests, you shouldn't be racing online, you don't have enough experience and you aren't fast enough for you to be even remotely competitive. License tests as a learning tool would be useful only for the most raw beginners to sim driving, those that have never driven in GT before or any other sim before.

But again, I have no objection whatsoever to them being in the game, having a leaderboard as @Giuliett73 suggested is a fine idea to spur competition and encourage participation. Just don't set up the game so you have to do license tests to unlock all the cars and tracks and progress through the game to get online.

 

[Stotty]

No offense, but if you are that new to the series that you're actually learning something in license tests, you shouldn't be racing online, you don't have enough experience and you aren't fast enough for you to be even remotely competitive. License tests as a learning tool would be useful only for the most raw beginners to sim driving, those that have never driven in GT before or any other sim before.

No offence, but I'm not sure I agree with that statement

I'm a pretty quick driver and I have started every GT game (since GT2) by doing the licenses first. With each iteration of GT the physics change, and the licenses are a great way to understand how they have changed in detail. The only problem is GT5 had forced SRF on the tests, which rather defeats the objective - hopefully GT6 won't make the same mistake.

 

[Johnnypenso]

No offence, but I'm not sure I agree with that statement

I'm a pretty quick driver and I have started every GT game (since GT2) by doing the licenses first. With each iteration of GT the physics change, and the licenses are a great way to understand how they have changed in detail. The only problem is GT5 had forced SRF on the tests, which rather defeats the objective - hopefully GT6 won't make the same mistake.

But do you need license tests to do that or can you just take 2 or 3 cars into arcade mode and run some laps or a makeshift race and do the same? If I have a choice of spending hours on license tests (animations and loading times are incredibly slow) to learn physics or just running cars around the track in real racing or hotlap situations, I'll take the latter every time.

 

[sparkytooth]

I'd like something GTPSP style. Have hundreds of the challlenges from GTPSP in and above all make them optional. Give you a special something at the end of them for your troubles.

 

[Stotty]

But do you need license tests to do that or can you just take 2 or 3 cars into arcade mode and run some laps or a makeshift race and do the same? If I have a choice of spending hours on license tests (animations and loading times are incredibly slow) to learn physics or just running cars around the track in real racing or hotlap situations, I'll take the latter every time.

No, I don't think you learn the subtleties of the physics model by just hot lapping a few different cars.

Time after time you see people make their biggest speed improvements though running lots of Time Trials (WRS & the Seasonals for example). Time trialling is not unlike license tests, as it's a repeating task, with a clear goal and where you learn from your mistakes. Running lots of different cars, with different drive train layouts, different power characteristics, weight balances and tyres against the clock will teach you much more than hotlapping, and certainly a lot more that racing.

 

[FLIGHT50]

The licences should be hard as that's the only way your going to improve as a driver.

The idea of special untradable cars would be good, maybe being able to choose 1 car out of a choice of 4 so there is a variation but certainly something that can't be gifted/traded.

I agree with the harder the test the better the driver you will be. Sometimes they are too hard though. Especially for the average gamer. It would be discouraging to them. I think Silver should be obtainable for up to 75% of players and Gold should be obtainable for about 10-15% of the players. Now for you hardcore racers, I think they should come up with something like a titanium medal in which only 3-5% can obtain. I can barely get about a dozen gold so the titanium is out of my reach. But either way, silver and above is a big achievement for a lot of average to slightly above average drivers. I am in that boat and I love trying to get higher medals but I do know my limits. I don't complain about not getting gold and I don't expect many to begin with.

I like the idea when GT4 gave a selection out of 4 cars to choose from after winning events. One car based on medal received is fine but a player feels more in control when they can select from options. I like the untradable thought but it would probably be better if it was non-sellable as well.

Off topic a bit but, I love the fact that in GT4 you can race the special events over and over again, with a twist. You can get the same car and cash numerous times but it deleted your completion status for it. The special events were the perfect way to grind in GT4. Quick duo lap races. The different level opponents for the same track was perfect for this. I wish GT6 could at least bring back everything GT4 had event and track wise. Some of the special events would have been a lot more frustrating for me without all the different license test. I have always welcomed them. Tedious or not, always look forward in doing them in GT.

 

[FLIGHT50]

...What?

Prize cars that cannot be obtained normally were a staple of the GT series before 5. Every single GT had cars like this, and they were trophies in their own right.

I hated how GT5 handled prize cars, and the idea that everybody should get everything just because people don't want to work for it is stupid.

I agree 100%. I think the best way that Sony and PD can benefit from people that don't want to work for special cars, is to allow those same cars that are free to those that work for it but use them as dlc for the people that want them without the work. I would at least try to get them free. Worst case, if I wanted it that bad, I can just buy it. But for everyone to have free access to everything that some of you really really good drivers, is unfair. I don't complain about what I can't do, I will never complete even 90% of a GT title but it sure is fun trying too. Until GT5 came along that is, lol.

No offence, but I'm not sure I agree with that statement

I'm a pretty quick driver and I have started every GT game (since GT2) by doing the licenses first. With each iteration of GT the physics change, and the licenses are a great way to understand how they have changed in detail. The only problem is GT5 had forced SRF on the tests, which rather defeats the objective - hopefully GT6 won't make the same mistake.

Great point. I didn't even think about the obvious fact that the physics changes in new installments. I recall not being able to do certain things as easily as in the previous GT vs the newer one and I have done them all since GT1.