London and England riots

[ExigeEvan]

Couple of my mates who in the army have replied saying they have itchy rubber-bullet fingers. They haven't lost friends and colleagues in Afghanistan for this to happen at home.

 

[spunwicked]

Totally. There is literally no reason and no justification behind the riots. There wasn't even really justification for a peaceful protest after Duggan was shot, but then peaceful protesting is at least legal.

The met shot him dead, and his next of kin found out by reading the papers. Is that not justification of a peaceful protest? Whether he was guilty, innocent or whatever, the met had a duty of care to inform his family before the tabloids.

 

[Encyclopedia]

Loot at his shame in his face.

If I ever see him in the street, I would love to smack him round the head, then do the same gloat over him.

How smart of him to post a picture of his loot on facebook. I hope he gets caught.

 

[Tesla]

That would take a grain of skill to use and a spark of creativity to desire; boxed discs can't do the same. In three years, his wares will be forgotten junk. Is that worth a criminal record, fines, and jail time? Of course not...thus, the ignorance of mob action.

I had a digital camera in mind. Those don't require any skill, it's "point and shoot" really.

Want to make a statement? Attacking those that employ you doesn't make a statement. I'm tired of hearing how everyone wants immediate change...overnight success usually takes about 10 inglorious but quiet and unassuming years.

...by which time you'll have the next set of youths wanting to make a statement

 

[ExigeEvan]

The met shot him dead, and his next of kin found out by reading the papers. Is that not justification of a peaceful protest? Whether he was guilty, innocent or whatever, the met had a duty of care to inform his family before the tabloids.

You don't know his personal circumstances. He was a 29 year old man with previous convictions and a criminal life, what's to say they were even still in contact?

 

[TheCracker]

And none of that is any excuse for just giving up on making things better for yourself and moaning about how everything is somebody else's fault.

The government isn't perfect by any means but people who complain about it constantly rather than trying to make things better are far, far worse.

Not everyone can be successful in life, Capitalism requires an underclass of workers to survive. Traditional working-class jobs are being exported abroad to countries who, for now, can pay lower wages. This has increased wealth for these countries (again, for now, until those workers demand better wages) at the expense of creating an increasing amount of poor working-class youths who rightly or wrongly see themselves with no future. Sure, a chunk of them are probably third-generation layabouts, but these rioters are just the thin end of the wedge of a much bigger issue.

 

[Mike Rotch]

CNN and FoxNews had nothing on the riots in their morning broadcasts, although USA Today had a little article. Basically, it's trying to paint the "victim" as a "29-year-old father of four", although they did mention the circumstances were "unclear".

I had people coming up to me at work today (where we have flat screens with 24hr Sky coverage on, muted) asking me "so what's all that about, any idea what kicked it off".

Some people's ignorance is astonishing.

 

[PeterJB]

I'm 20 miles from Bristol. If it starts up in Bath it'll almost undoubtably hit Corsham. I live in a council estate, so I'll be right in the middle of it.

 

[spunwicked]

You don't know his personal circumstances. He was a 29 year old man with previous convictions and a criminal life, what's to say they were even still in contact?

That is indeed a very valid point. Somebody must have cared though, for his relatives to hold a candlelight vigil.

 

[Mike Rotch]

That is indeed a very valid point. Somebody must have cared though, for his relatives to hold a candlelight vigil.

The skeptics among us might wonder if they cared just a little bit harder with journo's sniffing around to capture their vigil...

 

[PeterJB]

That is indeed a very valid point. Somebody must have cared though, for his relatives to hold a candlelight vigil.

It was probably the people rioting now, since they hate the police and all authority figures, and don't seem to care that he shot first.

 

[spunwicked]

Not everyone can be successful in life, Capitalism requires an underclass of workers to survive. Traditional working-class jobs are being exported abroad to countries who, for now, can pay lower wages. This has increased wealth for these countries (again, for now, until those workers demand better wages) at the expense of creating an increasing amount of poor working-class youths who rightly or wrongly see themselves with no future. Sure, a chunk of them are probably third-generation layabouts, but these rioters are just the thin end of the wedge of a much bigger issue.

THIS

One of my clients firms actually employs East Asian article writers, where a graduate would have traditionally been hired. The reason?

For the cost of one graduate salary he can hire around 15 East Asian writers.

 

[axletramp]

The met shot him dead, and his next of kin found out by reading the papers. Is that not justification of a peaceful protest? Whether he was guilty, innocent or whatever, the met had a duty of care to inform his family before the tabloids.

Unfortunate set of circumstances. The press were told there had been a shooting relatively soon afterwards, possibly as a result of the press monitoring important police communications. Then the internal investigation was set in motion and from that point on the police cannot discuss it with anyone.

BTW, the police had been monitoring his activities for a while. I'm not sure what to read into that.

And yes, it is perfectly within their rights to protest, but certain factions within their group (or extended group) failed to understand the police's position and it all kicked off. Emotions must have been high for the family and friends so it's hard to say exactly how that happened.

 

[TheCracker]

I'm 20 miles from Bristol. If it starts up in Bath it'll almost undoubtably hit Corsham. I live in a council estate, so I'll be right in the middle of it.

Don't worry. If the rioters hit Corsham the villagers of Castle Combe will complain about the noise and have it stopped. 👍

 

[PeterJB]

Don't worry. If the rioters hit Corsham the villagers of Castle Combe will complain about the noise and have it stopped. 👍

Local farmers should set angry Bulls loose on the streets!

 

[dhandeh]

The skeptics among us might wonder if they cared just a little bit harder with journo's sniffing around to capture their vigil...

On the news yesterday, they showed the place where he was shot, there was two bunches of flowers and a card. That tells me he wont be greatly missed.

 

[axletramp]

On the news yesterday, they showed the place where he was shot, there was two bunches of flowers and a card. That tells me he wont be greatly missed.

...and so many protesting at the police station...

 

[Stevisiov]

Has GTP all of a sudden become the Daily Mail?

Some people in England truly are striving for a better life. I work on average 80 hours a week to support my family. I have a decent job, and my second job is pretty good too. Should I need to work 80 hours a week to provide?

Riots and looting are not acceptable. The thieving of our government and banking system is not acceptable. It seems the older generations are very out of touch with what young people have to face these days. What do they care? Petit bourgeois mentality much?

Really? I must point out that I'm 20 so I probably should be considered as the younger generation. I found myself walking through the city centre of Birmingham today but I didn't throw any chairs through windows, I was going for a job interview. I saw many young people out and about in the city center, funnily enough, they weren't smashing shops, or throwing petrol bombs either.

This suggests that not all the young want to smash and break things which leads me to my point, is it really a case of the old being out of touch with the young? Or is it just a group of idiots want a few free-bees and need to appease their pyromania by torching cars and peoples homes?

If people have a problem with the police or the government, why are they targeting shops and burning down peoples homes? They aren't protesting, or at least the vast majority aren't, they are having a laugh and trying to get some free stuff, I don't see it as defensible.

 

[Famine]

Not everyone can be successful in life, Capitalism requires an underclass of workers to survive.

Fixed. Though this isn't the thread for it, workers are an integral part of a capitalist society and successful workers are rewarded higher than unsuccessful ones. A class system is unnecessary, but if it were, they wouldn't be an "under"class.

It is true that the UK is outsourcing a lot of jobs. There's a couple of reasons for this. Certainly financial - the national minimum wage means that postholders are now no longer rewarded according to ability and output, but have a guaranteed lowest income threshold which is both unfair on employers and ripe for abuse by employers; putting your factory in a country with fewer punitive taxes on businesses means you can employ a string of Durkadurkastanis for next to nothing, but still pay a reasonable salary in terms of their economy. But beyond that is the workforce - so many people refuse to "lower" themselves to basic jobs because there is no incentive. It's low-skill work in unappealing environments for not much money - when they'd be better off on the sick, on the dole or just operating outside the normal streams of finance (selling knock-off gear, drugs or even doing cash-in-hand work) and they don't have to lift a finger. If we didn't have a system set up to actively reward laziness we'd have British kids in British jobs, earning their way and contributing to the country.


That aside, many of the kids involved in this stupidity aren't old enough to have entered into the workplace yet anyway.

 

[PeterJB]

On the news yesterday, they showed the place where he was shot, there was two bunches of flowers and a card. That tells me he wont be greatly missed.

I'm not surprised. This is all his fault. He shot first (albeit not very accurately) and they shot back. It's different from the L.A. Riots where the guy was beaten by cops and they were let go. Plus, that was a hate crime, though I suspect Mark Duggan being black has something to do with this too.

 

[dhandeh]

...and so many protesting at the police station...

Sheep.

 

[spunwicked]

Really? I must point out that I'm 20 so I probably should be considered as the younger generation. I found myself walking through the city centre of Birmingham today but I didn't throw any chairs through windows, I was going for a job interview. I saw many young people out and about in the city center, funnily enough, they weren't smashing shops, or throwing petrol bombs either.

This suggests that not all the young want to smash and break things which leads me to my point, is it really a case of the old being out of touch with the young? Or is it just a group of idiots want a few free-bees and need to appease their pyromania by torching cars and peoples homes?

If people have a problem with the police or the government, why are they targeting shops and burning down peoples homes? They aren't protesting, or at least the vast majority aren't, they are having a laugh and trying to get some free stuff, I don't see it as defensible.

Maybe you are right, it could just be townie chav types getting in on freebies.

It could also be indicative of a greater underlying problem.

 

[axletramp]

Maybe you are right, it could just be townie chav types getting in on freebies.

It could also be indicative of a greater underlying problem.

Townie chav types getting in on freebies... with Blackberry's?

Sheep.

Hmmm, didn't see any of those... although a woolly protest would be something to see!


On another note: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/front_page/14454137.stm
Thank the lord! They could do with a couple more week's practice anyway.

 

[Neal]

Is there not an argument that perhaps we are reading too much into this. OK, it is extreme, but judging by their ages I'm wondering whether this would have kicked off during term time. Bored, misguided kids from poorer backgrounds just getting away with it?

This +1 Long summer days during the school holidays is certainly playing a part in this. Fortunately rain is forcast from Wednesday onwards which will very likely keep a lot of them off the streets if it's heavy enough.

 

[PeterJB]

This +1 Long summer days during the school holidays is certainly playing a part in this. Fortunately rain is forcast from Wednesday onwards which will very likely keep a lot of them off the streets if it's heavy enough.

Chavs don't like rain. Makes their Foundation and Hair Gel run.

 

[dhandeh]

This +1 Long summer days during the school holidays is certainly playing a part in this. Fortunately rain is forcast from Wednesday onwards which will very likely keep a lot of them off the streets if it's heavy enough.

If not tear gas and rubber bullets should do the job.

 

[spunwicked]

This +1 Long summer days during the school holidays is certainly playing a part in this. Fortunately rain is forcast from Wednesday onwards which will very likely keep a lot of them off the streets if it's heavy enough.

Hah! Now what if that is the truth and the rain really does stop play?

Maybe it's time to abolish the summer term holidays and send unruly kids to military camp.

 

[Mike Rotch]

Sun calling a spade a spade!:

Street Jackals: Helpless child beaten and robbed by feral riot yobs.

 

[Famine]

calling a spade a spade

Probably not the best term to use referring to thugs in Hackney, Tottenham, Deptford...

 

[dhandeh]

Sun calling a spade a spade!:

Street Jackals: Helpless child beaten and robbed by feral riot yobs.

Probably not the best term to use referring to thugs in Hackney, Tottenham, Deptford...