Lots of Games have it Now. Should GT 5 have a Rewind Option?

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Gameplay Rewind Feature. Opinions.

  • I will only buy GT5 if it makes it into the game.

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Yes, it should be in GT5.

    Votes: 19 5.8%
  • I don't care if it is included, nor if it isn't.

    Votes: 71 21.8%
  • No, it shouldn't be in GT5.

    Votes: 210 64.6%
  • I won't buy GT5 if it makes it into the game.

    Votes: 9 2.8%
  • I would never use it if it's in the game.

    Votes: 74 22.8%
  • I would use it only during practice.

    Votes: 30 9.2%
  • I would use it only during races.

    Votes: 4 1.2%
  • I would use it in both modes (racing and practice).

    Votes: 12 3.7%
  • Other (explain).

    Votes: 7 2.2%

  • Total voters
    325
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Poll too complicated if you ask me...

I put in my votes, basically I don't really care if its in, but if it is there are definitely circumstances under which I would use it. Also since it might help people learn to drive better I think it would be a positive outside of my uses.
 
You can turn off the notice that likes to pop up, but the Back button still activates it if pressed, on the default layout.

Well, if we're given the same amount of freedom to customize the controls in GT5 as we are given in Prologue, this won't be a problem.
 
Have Grid, but never used it.

It's one of those items that's at the bottom of my list, but would not bother me if it was in.

:)
 
I was against having a rewind feature in the game, but I like the argument about using it to master a specific corner on the track by racing it over and over again. I think this would be a great way to learn the proper line or just get familiar with a car. Other than that, I would not use them. I have used them in Dirt 2, and I feel like I've cheated myself by using them to win a race.
 
No, The realism would be killed off in the game, and that is what polyphony is shooting for.
 
Zath "You would have to pause and record your sector time by hand (or just remember it). Yes that is a little less elegant than automatically recording your times.
The exact spot is easy. you just drag the slider to the appropriate time. You will have a clock so you can see the sector times or whatever spot you want to stop on the track. There is absolutely no need to use a stopwatch since you still have the track clock."

Ok, I'm seeing it more like how you see it. --> There's a clock with the rewind function, you can rewind to the exact spot on the clock, which would take you back to the exact same time/place... But why do this with a rewind feature when it can be done instantly without rewinding? it's analogous to using rewind to go back to the start of a track when you can just skip back instead. Besides, going back some distances prior to when the timer starts is, in my mind, more realistic, since your approach to the start point will depend entire on you (i.e. how it happens in reality).

Zath "As I said, I like your idea and don't disagree (I'm sure turbomp would). But it is effectively just a different take on a rewind system with its own advantages and disadvantages. You can't really suggest that one would be much better than the other."

The main reason it's better IMO is because the game records your times for you. That's a huge convenience to me, because i dont want to have to do it with a pen. It'll save you a lot of time, and that's the main reason I like it. I mean, who wants to record times by hand? Not me! I want to have my sector times automatically saved so I can compare my performance over time. And I know that can be done with a pen and pad, but if you do the math over a period of say 6 months and you'll see, it's hella slow with a pen/pad.

Zath "But then you won't have the exact same speed, acceleration and time into the section you want to practice. You would be better off determining the speed you want first. That will take more time than a rewind where you know that the speed and position will be the same."

But then you're never gonna have the exact same speed/accel as you hit the timer-start-point anyway. You won't have that in a real race event, and nor do real-life race/time attack drivers have the exact same speed/accel every time they hit the timer-start-point. For that reason, I also consider it more realistic than a rewind function. It's totally up to you how fast you hit the timer-start-point.. so you don't have to rely on the function to give you the exact same speed/place every time you do a run.

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Zath "Yes but again, what's a better starting point that a point you literally know is exactly what it would be in a race because it was the point in the race?"

A better starting point is one that is not /done/ for you.. one that is natural.. i.e. you get dropped some distance before the timer-start-point, so it's totally up to you to ensure that your speed/position is exactly as it would be in a real race event.
 
Dev "Well how do you know what corner you need to practice and from where to where?"

Your whole interpretation is misinterpreted lol As I explained previously, you select the section of track on a map interface (using your controller or G25) before you click "Start Practice".

Dev "As for saving times for a section, you are solving a problem that isn't there. No you can't save times for sections with rewind, but it still gets you the practice you need to get through the corner decently."

Again, misinterpreted. I'm not talking about saving time for sections, I'm talking about reducing "time-to-proficiency" for sections. If I can have the game record my times for me, then i dont have to do that. If I can repeat the same section of track and have the game save my times for me, then 1) I dont have to record anything by hand, and 2) I can repeat that sector of track more times in say 3 months than you can using rewind in the same period of time (assuming playing hrs are identical). Compare "rewinding" on a CD versus the skip function. Skip is instant, rewind takes time.. It might not be much time when comparing a single run, but add it up over 6 months. Time is money.

Dev "I don't think having what you suggest is a bad idea, why not practice sections of the track with a timer, but I am saying it's neither a less cumbersome method to do what rewind does nor as well integrated into the game."

As Ive said, it's less cumbersome for the reasons above. Namely, 1) I dont have to record times, and 2) i can repeat that sector quicker than a person using rewind could, because "skip" is faster than "rewind".


Dev "Quote:
Since you will be entering the track some distance prior to the timer-start point, you'll be able to take your preferred driving line before you get to where the timer starts.
Also, if you're doing a standing start you can choose your lateral position on the track.

Now you are getting yet more complex and move farther away from "not cumersome" and again, why do it all this difficult way when you literally can hold a button until you are where you want to be and you nkow the speed, angle and location is EXACTLY what you did coming into this corner?"

It's not cumbersome, because you actually set all the parameters before you click "Start Practice". Then you dont need to re-enter any parameters. But if i have to hold a button just to go back, to me, that's a waste of time. Id rather be back to where i want to be instantly. Anyone who does the math will hav to agree with this.
 
Meh, I could really care less about whether is in or not as its optional. If it is and its like Grid's where you can slow down to super slow-mo, wouldn't mind that as I could do the following things:

Perfect the racing line: Historically, I've always used replys in GT to better my driving and with rewind, I could study how deep I can go before braking, the exact point to accelerate without spinning the tires and how much steering input in relaton to the corner (looking how far he wheels are turned.

Fine Tuning Setups: This could help when putting together the perfect setup for a particular track. It could help me see how much camber I should apply for my Toyota Camry at Daytona, How much downforce I should apply for my NSX at Fuji and more.

Now of course, this is in my opinion what uses you can utilize it for other then crashing into the armco barriers repeatidly and correcting your mistake in the corkscrew. Personally, the options listed above would be how I would use it.


Also, I notice two interesting perceptions on this feature: You have the GT purists who see GT as a Pure Sim because you have to work at it an thus percieve this Rewind feature as a cheap excuse for people who have no skill and as the end of GT as we know it, then you have the people who like this feature and percieve it to be very handy tool. Here's my overall take on it: As some have already pointed out, its a choice if you want or don't want to use it. Personally, its not gonna affect whether I buy the game or not and its definatly not gonna make me lose sleep over it. If its there, its there. If its not, then its not.
 
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Your whole interpretation is misinterpreted lol As I explained previously, you select the section of track on a map interface (using your controller or G25) before you click "Start Practice".

My point was, how do you know what corner you have problems with if you never raced the track before? You don't... so you have to race it to find out where the problem is... so at that point why quit out and go do somethign else when you could just hit rewind right now?

To me having rewind is like bringing the tool with you to do the job, your method is going to the jobsite, surveying it, then going bakc home and plugging all the measurements in to then do the job.

Again, misinterpreted. I'm not talking about saving time for sections, I'm talking about reducing "time-to-proficiency" for sections. If I can have the game record my times for me, then i dont have to do that. If I can repeat the same section of track and have the game save my times for me, then 1) I dont have to record anything by hand, and 2) I can repeat that sector of track more times in say 3 months than you can using rewind in the same period of time (assuming playing hrs are identical). Compare "rewinding" on a CD versus the skip function. Skip is instant, rewind takes time.. It might not be much time when comparing a single run, but add it up over 6 months. Time is money.

No I know what you mean and that's why I think your tool is best suited towards good drivers who want to perfect their skills rather than drivers who just need to get over the frustrating hump of going off the road all the time.

Basically rewind means if you go flying wildly into a wall, you can go back and brake a little earlier then make the curve. You found your braking point and you can now race that curve and continue. You get good enough to have fun and then better yourself. When you get good enough you need to start shaving tenths off, then your idea might be better suited.

Like I said, your idea offers a solution but to a different issue.


As Ive said, it's less cumbersome for the reasons above. Namely, 1) I dont have to record times, and 2) i can repeat that sector quicker than a person using rewind could, because "skip" is faster than "rewind".

1: It's only good if you want to record times. As I said, rewind lets you get the basics down and learn the corners. Recording times is solving an issues I don't think most have. I mean realistically by the time you are shaving tenths off as I said above your idea might be better but also by then you are probably racing the whole track shaving tenths.

2: If you need to repeat it a lot then yes, but I really think rewind is good for those one off situations where two or three passes and you have found your braking marker and know what to do to have fun and not be frustrated. The skip back thing is ok if you really want to hit it a lot over and over, but again, you have to isolate your problem areas (while racing) then go mark them all down and then translate that into sections you have preselected along with launch speed, track location, how far across the track, angle etc.

It's not cumbersome, because you actually set all the parameters before you click "Start Practice". Then you dont need to re-enter any parameters. But if i have to hold a button just to go back, to me, that's a waste of time. Id rather be back to where i want to be instantly. Anyone who does the math will hav to agree with this.

The whole point is you actually have to go into practice... with rewind, you can just do it any old time while you are racing. Hop in, start drivihg, have a problem, rewind and continue. Seemless.

And remember, what about accounting for handling real race scenarios with other cars? Your solutino is ok for perfecting your skill at every corner for your hot lap times, but what about racing? This is where most drivers could use some forgiveness in their learning. You can't well go setup a corner on a track with all the oponent cars doing exactly what they would do in a real race... I mean I guess you could but talk about cumbersome.

Basically you have envisioned a scenario and a set of issues to address and then you are applying rewind to that scenario... problem is you have isolated the scenario to one that works well for your solution but are failing to see that there are other, probably more common scenarios that rewind applies better to.

Remember when looking at rewind as an educational tool, it's more about learnin the basics for less skilled drivers. Finding braking locations, learning about how to handle packs of cars around you in tight corners, basically keeping it from being a frustrating learning process to being as quick and seemeless a process as it can be. Blending the racing fun with the learning tool.

When you are good enough that you want to track how many tenths you can shave of half a mile at the nurb... you are probably whipping around the whole tarck already doing pretty well... you don't need rewind or any kind of help anymore, you are now just honing your skill.
 
Ok, I'm seeing it more like how you see it. --> There's a clock with the rewind function, you can rewind to the exact spot on the clock, which would take you back to the exact same time/place... But why do this with a rewind feature when it can be done instantly without rewinding?
Its not as structured with rewind. You could just be doing some laps and decide that you want to try one corner a few times. Rewind would be a little more convenient for this. Sometimes you may want more structured practice sometimes less.
it's analogous to using rewind to go back to the start of a track when you can just skip back instead. Besides, going back some distances prior to when the timer starts is, in my mind, more realistic, since your approach to the start point will depend entire on you (i.e. how it happens in reality).
But if you want to determine what is the best line through a corner you want accurate times. If you are going through two corners you don't know if you improved the corner you were targeting or the corner before. By having the exact same starting point for the corner you can very accurately tell if you have improved or not. Of course you would never want to only practice with one entrance to the corner. you would need to make sure that you practice several different approaches.

The main reason it's better IMO is because the game records your times for you. That's a huge convenience to me, because i dont want to have to do it with a pen. It'll save you a lot of time, and that's the main reason I like it. I mean, who wants to record times by hand? Not me! I want to have my sector times automatically saved so I can compare my performance over time. And I know that can be done with a pen and pad, but if you do the math over a period of say 6 months and you'll see, it's hella slow with a pen/pad.
As I wrote previously, this is one of the advantages of your idea but may be overkill in some situations.

And of course with either method you still have to know what you are doing. It makes no sense spending hours to get through one corner as fast as you can when you really should be taking a suboptimal line so you can optimize the corner after.
 
From your guyz feedback it's easy to see that there are definite pros and cons for both approaches.. Therefore i dont see why both functions cant be implemented to some degree. That way it's left up to the player to decide how they want to practice/learn.. and i think that's a good thing. For me personally, if i had to have either one of the functions, id prefer the "jump to" method than the "rewind" method, but i have no qualms about having the best of both worlds :)
 
From your guyz feedback it's easy to see that there are definite pros and cons for both approaches.. Therefore i dont see why both functions cant be implemented to some degree. That way it's left up to the player to decide how they want to practice/learn.. and i think that's a good thing. But for me personally, if i had to have either one of the functions, id prefer the "jump to" method than the "rewind" method, nut i have no qualms about having the best of both worlds :)

Sure, more options is better the vast majority of the time.

The point I was trying to make is that rewind has a legitimate use and value and isn't just going to ruin the game somehow.
 
B-spec is nothing like rewind, sorry.

B-Spec is an AI driver that you control. It's like your a crew chief. You have to tell him when to pass, how hard to push, and when to pit

It's far from cheating which rewind is.
 
B-spec is nothing like rewind, sorry.

B-Spec is an AI driver that you control. It's like your a crew chief. You have to tell him when to pass, how hard to push, and when to pit

It's far from cheating which rewind is.

Well, at some point, it's presumable that you stop rewinding and start your re-attempt of the section you just ****ed up.

I fail to see how that's cheating.
 
B-spec is nothing like rewind, sorry.

B-Spec is an AI driver that you control. It's like your a crew chief. You have to tell him when to pass, how hard to push, and when to pit

It's far from cheating which rewind is.

I don't really see how Bspec it cheating... it's just never really doing it yourself.

So cheating? No not really... but if rewind is wrong becuase it takes the challenge out, then b spec has to be utter blasphemy.

Remember, rewind lets you re do it, but at least you still have to do it!
 
Well if you look closely you can see the logic clearly posted in this thread. I will sum it up for you:

It just is and it will ruin the game, can't you see that man! :dunce:

Ya I can see that, but I think that point is daft.
 
Ya I can see that, but I think that point is daft.

Well obviously you are wrong, you can see where it's clearly stated that it IS cheating and it WILL ruin the game... so obviously you are wrong... it's right there in black and white. Can't argue that, someone said it, must be true. :dopey:
 
Dev "Sure, more options is better the vast majority of the time.

The point I was trying to make is that rewind has a legitimate use and value and isn't just going to ruin the game somehow."

The more i go into it the more i can see that it cant affect my ability to improve myself if i hav this feature. And if people find it useful then im all for it. But i think it shouldnt be a forced feature.. people should be allowed to decide whether they want to practice the oldschool way (i.e. without either function), or to use one or the other, or both at the same time. The only real issue is that people/turn10 can accuse PD of copy-cat-ing.. which could be bad'ish for PD. But it can definitely hurt PD.. they do NOT want reviews/comments spelling out to ppl that theyre copycaters (i.e. copied teh driveline, copied the rewind, copied the livery). It's soemthing to consider.
 
I was once one of the proud, the fierce, the righteous. I railed against rewind in Forza. I hated it, the entire idea, it ruined the entire essence of sim racing. It offended me, and mocked me with its very existence.

Then I played it. And I loved it. I used it to perfect corners. I used it to create awesome overtakes in replays. I used it for all sorts of things. My wife played the game and she learnt to drive the demo track so fast because she could instantly correct her mistakes while they were fresh in her mind. Enjoying the game with her is a great feeling.

A mate of mine came around to play and the same thing happened, he just had fun learning the track without being frustrated, and then spent an hour creating a replay of a Jason Plato style drive, complete with drifting overtakes and all sorts of silliness. Enjoying the game with him was a great feeling too.

With full damage modelling, a single mistake can cost you an hour long race. You don't bounce off the wall with a 3 second penalty, you just lose. Is this realistic? Yes. Is this fun when you only have an hour or so to yourself to play before bed for work the next day? Not for me. If your gaming is about enjoyment for your and your friends, you might actually like it! If you get your thrills by pretending you're a deadly serious real life racer in front of your tv, it might not be a big drawcard for you. But offering more choice to users is never a bad thing.

In summary:
Can rewind make the game more enjoyable? Yes. I've given 3 examples.
Does my decision to use it in single player affect you in any way at all? No.
Does the game force you to use the rewind feature? No.

So why the hate?
 
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