Lotus GTPlanet Elise 111R Championship - Series Champion: Wiifreak

  • Thread starter Müle
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TEARS4YEARS ;_; ??

:lol: Because I said something about people running their pie hole's, blatantly breaking the AUP, I deserve to have witless things said about me.

Really guys, if one isn't competent to twist yarn, for even a full day at that, they obviously aren't competent to organize and officiate a series. :dunce:
 
MÜLE_9242;5642243
Where are you getting 14 points from? He finished 14th.

And I know it's not fair; that's why the 25% rule exists in the first place. :/
Who cares, 14, 5. It's the fairness that is the issue. I don't know what EERS did, but giving 5 sec penalty to someone who apparently dive-bombed multiple times, and completely DQing someone who got frustrated during an enduro do not seem fair to me. The latter might be the case of me not having complete information, hence I think fairness requires public explanation for the decision of the stewards, possibly with a video of the incident at hand.

Anyway, since I withdrew myself from this series already, I'll shut-up.
 
I don't know what EERS did...

I'll tell ya! One person kept hitting me over and over, in straights and turns, lap after lap, on every side of my car except the front, with their front bumper. After trying to let the 🤬 pass several times I hit them back(a very important word) with my rear bumper. The two actions are indiscernible to logical minds, but to one incapable of twisting yarn they seem vastly different. :lol:
 
I'm not going to let this get out of hand. Stuff keeps spilling over from PM's into the baords and I hate it.

I'm currently in the process of making a video that will clearly, very crystal clearly, show what went down on raceday. Because of the seemingly vague nature of the penalties.

Appreciate the input. But the most important thing is to keep civil on this board because I won't have any part of this series any more if things go even slightly out of hand. You won't get a message from me if it does, I'll just be gone.
 
Hey Mule, do you guys have any spots open in the room when you race, or are you filling each grid?

We're filling the grid, but at the same time, we're trying to keep it to 14/15 people a race to help with lag.

Who cares, 14, 5. It's the fairness that is the issue. I don't know what EERS did, but giving 5 sec penalty to someone who apparently dive-bombed multiple times, and completely DQing someone who got frustrated during an enduro do not seem fair to me. The latter might be the case of me not having complete information, hence I think fairness requires public explanation for the decision of the stewards, possibly with a video of the incident at hand.

Anyway, since I withdrew myself from this series already, I'll shut-up.


I completely understand the fairness issue about points, trust me. If th three of us (Watson, Wardez and myself) didn't complete 7 laps, we don't get points. I'll look over that sometime today.

As for the penalties, There we definitely things that happened that you had to be there to understand. With one of the incidents, there was stuff that happened post-race that increased the severity of the penalty. This will be kept private between the stewards and the parties involved.

But as for the in-race stuff, I have no problem with disclosing the explanations behind them, if it means you guys understand better why we did this.

For GTP_Johny, he's kind of built a reputation as being someone who can be fairly reckless a lot. Yesterday, his recklessness caused NEPALII to crash on lap 27/28 (forget which one exactly), as well as almost causing accidents on multiple occasions. The penalty follows my philosophy that the offending driver should finish behind the victim, hence it was only a 3 second penalty, that knocked him back a couple of positions, behind NEPALII in the finishing order.

As for Mr. EERS, he threw a brake-check on Brosif on lap 26 in the middle of a straight, and subsequently tried to pin him against the wall/crash him. It's a stiff penalty, but that kind of classless driving will not be tolerated, no matter the circumstance.
 
On a happier note, I'm joining the series.

#43 LancerEvo7 (GTP_LancerEvo7) - Morning Blue / Saffron Yellow
 
NOICE EVO

Great to have ya 👍

@RT, have something against quali.? :)
 
R1600Turbo
Huh? I just wanted to know if there was an extra spot in the room I could fill and watch the race. :sly:

It would be cool though if there were dedicated slots for people who just wanted to watch. Have like 16 racers and 10 viewing slots. Meh, just thinking out loud.
 
It would be cool though if there were dedicated slots for people who just wanted to watch. Have like 16 racers and 10 viewing slots. Meh, just thinking out loud.

Didn't Forza have something like that? Like a viewing mode or something? Thought I read about that somewhere. And I agree, that would be awesome. If I had it my way, I would not only make it so you could watch, but you could also pick from several locations around the track that you could watch from, and also have access to your photo mode tools. 👍
 
If we're only racing 14/15, I see no problem with letting you watch at all. Hopefully with the brake-checker gone, we'll be back to Suzuka levels of racing.

It'll also keep all of the randoms out of the room. Especially ones that say "blow me you haters." :lol:
 
MÜLE_9242;5643735
If we're only racing 14/15, I see no problem with letting you watch at all. Hopefully with the brake-checker gone, we'll be back to Suzuka levels of racing.
That's nice of you to let him watch.

Of course, the view is much better from inside the car, RT.

*hint, hint* :sly:
 
MÜLE_9242;5642507
I completely understand the fairness issue about points, trust me. If th three of us (Watson, Wardez and myself) didn't complete 7 laps, we don't get points. I'll look over that sometime today.

You don't even need to look at me... seriously 1.9 laps. I got as far as the Ford chicanes on lap 2.

MÜLE_9242;5643735
If we're only racing 14/15, I see no problem with letting you watch at all.

If someone is going to watch they should also webcast for everyone else who might want to watch.
I know RT is our buddy and all, but is it really fair (something you say you're interested in) to let him watch when we've been excluding people who don't make the qualifying line and might want to watch? Even to the extreme of bumping people to give a provisional spot when someone is too drunk to qualify.


I'm not going to let this get out of hand. Stuff keeps spilling over from PM's into the baords and I hate it.

I'm currently in the process of making a video that will clearly, very crystal clearly, show what went down on raceday. Because of the seemingly vague nature of the penalties.

Appreciate the input. But the most important thing is to keep civil on this board because I won't have any part of this series any more if things go even slightly out of hand. You won't get a message from me if it does, I'll just be gone.

Glass house man... The TEARS4YEARS thing was a pretty juvenile response.
 
If someone is going to watch they should also webcast for everyone else who might want to watch.

I don't have the necessary tools to do that.

Just asked if I could watch, no harm done. Guess I'll just stay away. :ill:
 
If someone is going to watch they should also webcast for everyone else who might want to watch.

Wouldn't streaming the race increase chance of lag? Just like when Cami streamed the Women's World Cup Final and the race lagged like crazy. It was Laguna Seca btw. Well it lagged at least for me, dont know about everyone else.
 
Wouldn't streaming the race increase chance of lag? Just like when Cami streamed the Women's World Cup Final and the race lagged like crazy. It was Laguna Seca btw. Well it lagged at least for me, dont know about everyone else.

That's something that would have to be tested. I'm not sure if being a spectator in the lounge would have as much effect as being in the race.
 
Wouldn't streaming the race increase chance of lag? Just like when Cami streamed the Women's World Cup Final and the race lagged like crazy. It was Laguna Seca btw. Well it lagged at least for me, dont know about everyone else.

I lagged a lot in Laguna Seca too, 2 second slower lap times.
Had no lag at Le Mans so i think people took it more seriously to do everything they can to ensure better connection to everyone.
 
Had no lag at Le Mans so i think people took it more seriously to do everything they can to ensure better connection to everyone.

I wish I could say I didn't experience any lag also, but I was four seconds a lap slower during the race with a best of 4:17.xxx when I wasn't in the draft.
 
Guys,

Not to bring back the EERS brake check issue, but I feel that I need to just say a couple of words on it, because I think it will make what has been a pretty solid Elise 111RM Series even better (and thanks to Mule, Wardez etc. for your ongoing effort in making it great.)

I have not seen the race video, though I think it's not even necessary to view it. Regardless of who did the bumping, turn after turn, I can say that I have been on the recieving end of this sort of driving multiple times, from many different drivers over the past year or so. And I can tell you, that for the person being bumped, it creates the highest level of frustration possible; far more frustration than someone blocking agressively; agressively attacking like this with contact is something that cannot be condoned. This sort of contact from behind I do not, and will never condone in my lobby by enacting a "zero tolerance" policy. It is absolutely 100% the following drivers responsiblity to be sure that they do not make ANY CONTACT with the driver they are following, REGARDLESS of how much faster they may or may not be than the driver in front. It is very easy to follow someone in GT5 and even pressure them even if the car in front is faster. You can be 1+ seconds slower on raw pace and still keep up, or even do a late brake maneuever after someone on a straight when using the tractor-beam draft.

Getting bumped from behind is tremendously distracting, and disrespectful. More importantly, when a driver like EERS (one of the best in the United States) is taking a corner, he is going to be right on the limit of traction. Just like in real life, even the slightest of nudges to a car that is right on the limit of traction can upset the balance of the car viciously. Addtionally, a driver like EERS is going to be able to react quickly enough with steering and throttle to reel the car in and keep going in what might seem like a non-dramatic event. But in reality, it slows the car down quite a bit. This make things even worse, because now the driver in behind can get inside the driver in front and get a run on him in to the next corner. This is amazingly frustrating because the attacking driver did not earn the run on the driver in the first place!!!! The attacking driver, if he EVER makes contact with the defending driver, aside from the most subtle of mid corner side-to-side taps, should back off immediately and give the position back, AS WELL as give up any advantage in exit speed that is afforded by the bump in to the next corner. It is proper racing ettiquette; it is not arguable. Behavior like this in "real life" would not be condoned. Immediately I think about the Vette bumping the Porsche in the final corner of Laguna Seca in the ALMS race a few years back. That Porsche earned the win, but the Vette (faster in this case) felt the need to nudge the porsche pretty hard off the corner, not spinning him, but getting him loose enough to get a run through the start/finish line good enough for the win. The Porsche driver (Pat Long, a factory porsche driver) drove the Vette in to the wall, totalling it in order to hold on to victory. And I can tell you, I would have done the SAME DAMN THING. You don't pass someone by nudging them in every corner because you are too lazy, or too unskilled to not back off your braking or corner entry. You race properly, with great respect for the driver in front of you and execute the pass by forcing them in to a mistake or adjusting your line to get a run on them in to the following corner or series of corners. It's the art of overtaking, and is one of the most enjoyable parts of battling with another great driver; this sort of dueling, tactical battle that if executed to perfection, rewards both the "winning" driver and "losing" driver with a big smile and a blast of an experience - some of the most fun races I've had are when I have been outpaced, or out-battled by a fantastic driver, (EERS is one of these guys) and in the process I learned how to get better.

Obviously I feel strongly on this, because it's all about making the experience as fun as possible for everyone and I want to see a great series like this continue and thrive. This sort of contact simply ruins the fun of motorsport. My advice - provide a clear and defined stance that it cannont be allowed any further. If not, don't be surprised if someone brake checks another out of frustration.

Respectfully, 👍

Nick
 
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That was all that we were doing. Everybody was doing it. Everybody was bump-drafting and being bump-drafted during that race. Nothing intentional was ever done in the corners. Forced, I can send you a link to download the replay files to show you, because I think you have a slight misunderstanding. We weren't bumping each other in the corners, at least intentionally.

It had been made clear before the race that bump-drafting down the straights was acceptable. A couple people chose to try not to bump-draft people, which is fine, but it is the slower way to go around Circuit de la Sarthe in a 264 HP Lotus.

Even still, if somebody is running into you in every corner, using your bumper as an extra brake, Brake-checking them is not the answer. All that does is escalates the situation into something truly ugly, and will stay out of this series.

I agree with everything you're saying, however I think you've missed the point ever so slightly. If there was bumping in the corners, it was never pointed out to me (other than what GTP_Johny was doing, as well as one incident between Brosif and EERS, where they got together slightly in Mulsanne corner, and Brosif immediately backed off the gas, and gave EERS plenty of space. This is what precipitated the brake-check ).
 
Guys,

Not to bring back the EERS brake check issue, but I feel that I need to just say a couple of words on it, because I think it will make what has been a pretty solid Elise 111RM Series even better (and thanks to Mule, Wardez etc. for your ongoing effort in making it great.)

I have not seen the race video, though I think it's not even necessary to view it. Regardless of who did the bumping, turn after turn, I can say that I have been on the recieving end of this sort of driving multiple times, from many different drivers over the past year or so. And I can tell you, that for the person being bumped, it creates the highest level of frustration possible; far more frustration than someone blocking agressively; agressively attacking like this with contact is something that cannot be condoned. This sort of contact from behind I do not, and will never condone in my lobby by enacting a "zero tolerance" policy. It is absolutely 100% the following drivers responsiblity to be sure that they do not make ANY CONTACT with the driver they are following, REGARDLESS of how much faster they may or may not be than the driver in front. It is very easy to follow someone in GT5 and even pressure them even if the car in front is faster. You can be 1+ seconds slower on raw pace and still keep up, or even do a late brake maneuever after someone on a straight when using the tractor-beam draft.

Getting bumped from behind is tremendously distracting, and disrespectful. More importantly, when a driver like EERS (one of the best in the United States) is taking a corner, he is going to be right on the limit of traction. Just like in real life, even the slightest of nudges to a car that is right on the limit of traction can upset the balance of the car viciously. Addtionally, a driver like EERS is going to be able to react quickly enough with steering and throttle to reel the car in and keep going in what might seem like a non-dramatic event. But in reality, it slows the car down quite a bit. This make things even worse, because now the driver in behind can get inside the driver in front and get a run on him in to the next corner. This is amazingly frustrating because the attacking driver did not earn the run on the driver in the first place!!!! The attacking driver, if he EVER makes contact with the defending driver, aside from the most subtle of mid corner side-to-side taps, should back off immediately and give the position back, AS WELL as give up any advantage in exit speed that is afforded by the bump in to the next corner. It is proper racing ettiquette; it is not arguable. Behavior like this in "real life" would not be condoned. Immediately I think about the Vette bumping the Porsche in the final corner of Laguna Seca in the ALMS race a few years back. That Porsche earned the win, but the Vette (faster in this case) felt the need to nudge the porsche pretty hard off the corner, not spinning him, but getting him loose enough to get a run through the start/finish line good enough for the win. The Porsche driver (Pat Long, a factory porsche driver) drove the Vette in to the wall, totalling it in order to hold on to victory. And I can tell you, I would have done the SAME DAMN THING. You don't pass someone by nudging them in every corner because you are too lazy, or too unskilled to not back off your braking or corner entry. You race properly, with great respect for the driver in front of you and execute the pass by forcing them in to a mistake or adjusting your line to get a run on them in to the following corner or series of corners. It's the art of overtaking, and is one of the most enjoyable parts of battling with another great driver; this sort of dueling, tactical battle that if executed to perfection, rewards both the "winning" driver and "losing" driver with a big smile and a blast of an experience - some of the most fun races I've had are when I have been outpaced, or out-battled by a fantastic driver, (EERS is one of these guys) and in the process I learned how to get better.

Obviously I feel strongly on this, because it's all about making the experience as fun as possible for everyone and I want to see a great series like this continue and thrive. This sort of contact simply ruins the fun of motorsport. My advice - provide a clear and defined stance that it cannont be allowed any further. If not, don't be surprised if someone brake checks another out of frustration.

Respectfully, 👍

Nick

It sounds like you're talking about bump passing, more than bump drafting. Obviously, the two are completely different situations.

As I'm sure you know, to bump pass is to bump the car in front immediately before or during a corner to upset its balance, decrease its speed, and create a passing opportunity. This is not allowed in Mule's series and I highly doubt anyone was doing this, deliberately or otherwise.

Bump drafting, as Mule show has shown above, is to bump the car in front on a straight, which has the effect of allowing both cars to travel faster. From my experience doing this - including at La Sarthe - the drivers that frequent this type of series are careful to cease bumping and back off long before the corner turn in point.

That being said, I don't think you should bump someone who doesn't welcome it, even on a straight.
 
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Thanks Mule, if you could, yes please shoot me the files to the race, in particularly EERS video as I'd be curious to view it/them. I'll elaborate a little more after I see them, in private if you think that's the best thing, just let me know.

And agreed on everything you say. I think what needs to be clarified is what you mentioned - was there repeated contact mid corner in this instance. I am doubtful that a driver would retaliate to another driver for only one incident, but I will withhold any further judgement until I see the vids.

Thanks Man.

Nick
 
Bump passing was what Johny did to me. Well, I would call it Extreme Bump Passing, he hit me pretty hard!! :nervous: As for bump drafting, there is nothing wrong with it at all as long as it is done properly!
 
Stupid question, but might be relevant: is GT5 race replay identical for all involved players? I had a guy blame me (supposedly after watching replay) once for some rub mid-corner that pushed him off-track, but on my replay (and in race) there was zero contact, it just looked like the guy stopped steering and went wide. So are replays identical or player-dependent?
 
Stupid question, but might be relevant: is GT5 race replay identical for all involved players? I had a guy blame me (supposedly after watching replay) once for some rub mid-corner that pushed him off-track, but on my replay (and in race) there was zero contact, it just looked like the guy stopped steering and went wide. So are replays identical or player-dependent?

I don't think so.

For example, if someone is lagging in my race, and is going all over the track, it's show up like that on my replay, but on his replay, because he's obviously not lagging to himself, his replay will show him just fine.
 
MÜLE_9242;5648782
I don't think so.
Well, it's clear in case of obvious connection issues, but it's not clear to me what happens if there's no "lag" in the sense of loss of packets that make cars "jump", but there is a difference in ping, hence steering/brake/throttle inputs from different players being processed with slightly different order.

Anyhow, in the latter case (of non-identical replays) any disciplinary action requires looking at both replays.
 
i can tell you ive had this problem with corey (ENFORCER_98) and vise versa we both do our best to never hit each other in our fun public room/random races but theres been sometimes where i or him has said "you hit me" when either me or him were a good 1meter behind and had no idea it happened.
but interestingly in most cases we are both not lagging on each others screen its just very slightly delayed i think.
hope that helps figure out your problems ;)
 
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