TuneRVisioN
(Banned)
- 1,196
Theres no need to leave forever LOON, maybe you just need a break. 👍
M5Power Banned?
- Thread starter OZZYGT
- 167 comments
- 11,555 views
- Status
- 5,987
Mx²;2633367
It still doesn't change the fact that your post doesn't make sense.
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Speaking as the person who banned Doug, I agree entirely with the statement above.
Doug tries very hard to portray himself as a victim, but the fact remains that his repeated periods as 'Bad Doug' - argumentative, insulting, untruthful, and aggressively annoying - are what earned him his temporary ban. With input from the entire rest of the staff, I'm currently considering his status. But to a great extent the onus is on Doug to decide whether he wants to contribute or disrupt this forum. His status depends on that decision.
No matter how early a membership date he has, no matter how much of a fanclub he has, no matter how 'inside' his little clique is - NO user is exempt from the rules.
I find it HIGHLY curious that so many members of his fanclub/clique have insisted that he doesn't violate the AUP. Are you serious? I could go to the cars in general board, do a quick search, and be back here in 10 minutes with 10 examples where Doug initiated a personal attack or directly insulted another member before he was insulted in return.
This has NOTHING to do with the fabricated life that Doug lied to us all about. I was over that about a week after he was exposed. This has NOTHING to do with the supposed disagreement with a specific moderator directly before Doug's banning. That moderator was as surprised as anyone else to see that Doug had been disciplined. I banned Doug. He earned it - in fact, it has been overdue for some time. The only thing that kept it from happening this long is that 'Good Doug' is an enjoyable, friendly, and knowledgeable guy to have around.
As an aside, this thread should be in the Site Feedback forum. I'll move it there now.
sorry to say but i think some of the more senior members here need more strict guidlines as a lot seem to think that they are superior to the rest of the normal users somehow, i personally have had some trying to 'lord' over me and be complete morons because they somehow think they have more power than the rest of us, i personally do not know what M5 did but i have seen his posts in forums and see that he is one of these people
some people need to learn that you only get respect by giving it
some people need to learn that you only get respect by giving it
- 19,651
- Alabamamania
Sorry to stray off topic...
I don't feel I need stricter guidelines just because I've managed to stay here longer than new members. No forum would benefit from that, nor would it encourage people to stay for very long. Just about all forums with memberships in the thousands have their "bad apples", and I'm sure mostly all heavily-populated forums have a few long-timers that have lousy attitudes towards new members. We wouldn't have thousands of regular members if the old guard didn't appreciate the new members, and vice versa. As simplistic as it sounds, this tends to work out all right, especially if the rules are the same for one and all. Some new forums have heavy restrictions of new members, the staff of GTP doesn't feel that creates a community, nor encourages proper behavior from newcomers.
A long-time, respected member is one who generally follows the guidelines for such a long time that he/she doesn't get reprimanded or banned. In most cases, we long-time members don't worry about getting in trouble, not because we are close with administrators or moderators, but because we use a bit of common sense and have mutual respect for others. Some occasionally step over the line, but for all intents and purposes, a long-timer knows what's acceptable and what isn't without resorting to reading the AUP with a magnifying glass and an attorney. The rules are very simple, really...they don't feel like rules.
Of the 3,500-4,000 members that came before me at GTP, less than 1% are still active, regular posters on this forum. Thousands of others chose not to make this a regular place, a handful were banned, a tiny handful show up every so often for the core reason for this board's existence (GT!), but most people leave for a lack of interest. Why should the few that have stayed the course, helped others, and made this an enjoyable place be subject to additional rules?
I'm not going to say I created this place, and I'm not a moderator (maybe I'm a Moderator of One...as we all should), but we certainly have to walk the fine line between allowing new members to speak freely, yet not disrupt the continuity of GTPlanet that has made it the most popular GT-related forum (and in my opinion, the best all-round set of forums on the web).
I don't feel I need stricter guidelines just because I've managed to stay here longer than new members. No forum would benefit from that, nor would it encourage people to stay for very long. Just about all forums with memberships in the thousands have their "bad apples", and I'm sure mostly all heavily-populated forums have a few long-timers that have lousy attitudes towards new members. We wouldn't have thousands of regular members if the old guard didn't appreciate the new members, and vice versa. As simplistic as it sounds, this tends to work out all right, especially if the rules are the same for one and all. Some new forums have heavy restrictions of new members, the staff of GTP doesn't feel that creates a community, nor encourages proper behavior from newcomers.
A long-time, respected member is one who generally follows the guidelines for such a long time that he/she doesn't get reprimanded or banned. In most cases, we long-time members don't worry about getting in trouble, not because we are close with administrators or moderators, but because we use a bit of common sense and have mutual respect for others. Some occasionally step over the line, but for all intents and purposes, a long-timer knows what's acceptable and what isn't without resorting to reading the AUP with a magnifying glass and an attorney. The rules are very simple, really...they don't feel like rules.
Of the 3,500-4,000 members that came before me at GTP, less than 1% are still active, regular posters on this forum. Thousands of others chose not to make this a regular place, a handful were banned, a tiny handful show up every so often for the core reason for this board's existence (GT!), but most people leave for a lack of interest. Why should the few that have stayed the course, helped others, and made this an enjoyable place be subject to additional rules?
I'm not going to say I created this place, and I'm not a moderator (maybe I'm a Moderator of One...as we all should), but we certainly have to walk the fine line between allowing new members to speak freely, yet not disrupt the continuity of GTPlanet that has made it the most popular GT-related forum (and in my opinion, the best all-round set of forums on the web).
TuneRVisioN
(Banned)
- 1,196
- 21,286
- GR-MI-USA
- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
Mx²;2633102
I'm confused by what this has to do with my statement... Granted, I think it is human nature to lash-out at someone when they realize that they aren't a threat any-longer, much less able to retaliate, and thereby they do so without a problem... Its kinda like the little bear going up against the big one, as the little guy will only attack when the big one is turned around...
I could care less if you liked Doug, myself, or anyone else around here, but bad-mouthing someone when they can't necessarily defend themselves isn't cool. I know I've made jokes about some members who have been banned in the past, but there is a big difference between general attacks and light-hearted jokes...
We should probably all grow-up in this situation, no matter how long you've been here or how many posts you have made. Granted, I haven't been here long, and although I may act like I'm a senior member, I do my best to watch my step. It doesn't take much to get a ban, as we have all learned, and it obviously doesn't take much to incite a full-on flame-fest on a given topic either.
Either way, Doug is determined to see the ban through, as he wants to come back...
- 5,178
- Worcester, MA
- skip0110
If someone starts a thread to specifically bring a banned member back, it is reasonable to voice a counter-opinion if you believe that they were not a useful contributing member of the society.
It's not like people (me included) started a thread to bitch about him. But if someone starts a thread to bring him back, I'm certainly going to speak up if I don't think their reasoning is valid.
It's not like people (me included) started a thread to bitch about him. But if someone starts a thread to bring him back, I'm certainly going to speak up if I don't think their reasoning is valid.
- 6,009
- Austin, Texas
- D-Nitrate / GTP_DNitrate
While the circumstances of this thread are disappointing, at the very least it has spawned some very good posts!
EDIT: For Bram Turismo, Duke, and Pupik:
Doug's banishment has been discussed earlier in the premium GTP forum where I expressed my own thoughts on the subject, so I would only be repeating myself, and besides, most of what I said earlier has already been covered in many of the posts above. 👍
Code:
[B][COLOR="Green"] +++REP[/COLOR][/B] [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/reputation.php?p=2631766"][IMG]https://www.gtplanet.net/i/icons/16x16/check.gif[/IMG][/URL] for Post [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2631766&postcount=38"][COLOR="Blue"]# 38[/COLOR][/URL] by a6m5
[B][COLOR="Green"] ++REP[/COLOR][/B] [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/reputation.php?p=2631849"][IMG]https://www.gtplanet.net/i/icons/16x16/check.gif[/IMG][/URL] for Post [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2631849&postcount=50"][COLOR="Blue"]# 50[/COLOR][/URL] by Bram Turismo
[B][COLOR="Green"] +++REP[/COLOR][/B] [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/reputation.php?p=2632055"][IMG]https://www.gtplanet.net/i/icons/16x16/check.gif[/IMG][/URL] for Post [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2632055&postcount=60"][COLOR="Blue"]# 60[/COLOR][/URL] by UnoMOTO
[B][COLOR="Green"] ++REP[/COLOR][/B] [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/reputation.php?p=2632342"][IMG]https://www.gtplanet.net/i/icons/16x16/check.gif[/IMG][/URL] for Post [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2632342&postcount=71"][COLOR="Blue"]# 71[/COLOR][/URL] by Kent
[B][COLOR="Green"] +++REP[/COLOR][/B] [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/reputation.php?p=2633483"][IMG]https://www.gtplanet.net/i/icons/16x16/check.gif[/IMG][/URL] for Post [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2633483&postcount=124"][COLOR="Blue"]#124[/COLOR][/URL] by Duke
[B][COLOR="Green"] +REP[/COLOR][/B] [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/reputation.php?p=2633515"][IMG]https://www.gtplanet.net/i/icons/16x16/check.gif[/IMG][/URL] for Post [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2633515&postcount=125"][COLOR="Blue"]#125[/COLOR][/URL] by V8ETER
[B][COLOR="Green"]+++++REP[/COLOR][/B] [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/reputation.php?p=2633538"][IMG]https://www.gtplanet.net/i/icons/16x16/check.gif[/IMG][/URL] for Post [URL="https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2633538&postcount=127"][COLOR="Blue"]#127[/COLOR][/URL] by PupikDoug's banishment has been discussed earlier in the premium GTP forum where I expressed my own thoughts on the subject, so I would only be repeating myself, and besides, most of what I said earlier has already been covered in many of the posts above. 👍
Pupik: i did not mean that senior members should have more rules that they can be punished for but a standard if you will, that sets an example for aspiring new members, if we want to be valued members we need good role models...
All: i think people just need to realise whether or not somebody insults you or someone else that there are appropriate ways to deal with it, with the easiest being just to laugh about it, cause it really is just wasting their time...it should have no effect on you whatsoever...
i have had the " i been here longer than you " and the " i made more posts than you " arguement with people before being a part of a site myself in the past, and it is all stoopid...if someone has made more posts they might just have more time, they might not have to go to work or whatever, if they been here longer it could be that they are more senior and follow the rules but they are the ones that should be setting the example...or it could be that they just registered before you did...i came to this site like around 2002 and used it when it was still just a small site(correct me if i'm wrong about the time-frame i can't remember exactly) but i never registered because i never had time to look at forums and post my opinions and information, so i only joined like late last year, that doesn't make me a noob or such, it just means that now i have the time to play since i have done the hard work..
sorry if i sound like a shrink, but if you listen to em too much it starts to rub off...lol...
To others that gave me reps: cheers guys i never actually knew what that was until i saw DN's post with the ticks...
All: i think people just need to realise whether or not somebody insults you or someone else that there are appropriate ways to deal with it, with the easiest being just to laugh about it, cause it really is just wasting their time...it should have no effect on you whatsoever...
i have had the " i been here longer than you " and the " i made more posts than you " arguement with people before being a part of a site myself in the past, and it is all stoopid...if someone has made more posts they might just have more time, they might not have to go to work or whatever, if they been here longer it could be that they are more senior and follow the rules but they are the ones that should be setting the example...or it could be that they just registered before you did...i came to this site like around 2002 and used it when it was still just a small site(correct me if i'm wrong about the time-frame i can't remember exactly) but i never registered because i never had time to look at forums and post my opinions and information, so i only joined like late last year, that doesn't make me a noob or such, it just means that now i have the time to play since i have done the hard work..
sorry if i sound like a shrink, but if you listen to em too much it starts to rub off...lol...
To others that gave me reps: cheers guys i never actually knew what that was until i saw DN's post with the ticks...
- 8,128
- 2 smacks past uranus
- Somebodyshootme
You know, everyone on this forum has had one or two incidents when they were new to the forum where they have gotten blown off in the same matter. I know when I came here, this was the first forum I was ever apart of and in all honesty was not treated nicely at first. I just blew most of it off and continued to post here. The biggest thing that separates a GTP member and someone that is not going to last is not letting some people on the forum get to you with the 'Holy than thou' attitude you sometimes get.
Since I hacve reappeared, I have not seen as much of it then I use to, but I am still getting back into the groove of posting around here. Kinda feeling it out right now. In essence it does not matter if you were an original poster of the MSN group or someone that just registered yesterday. As long as you conduct yourself in a respectful matter, then you will get respect back from the other users. I am not saying every user will give the respect back, but the majority will.
TuneRVisioN
(Banned)
- 1,196
You know, everyone on this forum has had one or two incidents when they were new to the forum where they have gotten blown off in the same matter. I know when I came here, this was the first forum I was ever apart of and in all honesty was not treated nicely at first. I just blew most of it off and continued to post here. The biggest thing that separates a GTP member and someone that is not going to last is not letting some people on the forum get to you with the 'Holy than thou' attitude you sometimes get.
Since I hacve reappeared, I have not seen as much of it then I use to, but I am still getting back into the groove of posting around here. Kinda feeling it out right now. In essence it does not matter if you were an original poster of the MSN group or someone that just registered yesterday. As long as you conduct yourself in a respectful matter, then you will get respect back from the other users. I am not saying every user will give the respect back, but the majority will.
Another great post here. +Rep. I never used the red tick so much since the "You Know You Play GT4 Too Much When..." thread.
If I posted what negative stuff I was thinking when I read that, I would be banned right away.
- 40,794
I'm going to stay out of the whole "Should he have been banned in the first place" discussion, mostly because those of you who have paid attention to me and Doug realised that we fought quite a bit and that my opinion wouldn't have been the most impartial of ones. Duke essentially summed up anything I would have said far better than I would have.
So, what I've come in to ask is this:
Assuming Doug hadn't been warned beforehand not to re-register to avoid the temp ban, wouldn't normal procedure be to simply increase the temporary ban (As seen by Mista X and the first DeSwyft alternate account, for a couple of examples)? So why is this (the discussion at large, and to a lesser extent the idea of a permanent ban) even an issue? This isn't necessarily out of wishing for Doug back so much as it is for fairness; especially considering I saw Doug as, at the very least, a far more contributing member to GTP than DeSwyft ever was.
Edit: I must spread reputation before giving it to YSSMAN again (post #131).
Edit 2: Grammar.
So, what I've come in to ask is this:
Assuming Doug hadn't been warned beforehand not to re-register to avoid the temp ban, wouldn't normal procedure be to simply increase the temporary ban (As seen by Mista X and the first DeSwyft alternate account, for a couple of examples)? So why is this (the discussion at large, and to a lesser extent the idea of a permanent ban) even an issue? This isn't necessarily out of wishing for Doug back so much as it is for fairness; especially considering I saw Doug as, at the very least, a far more contributing member to GTP than DeSwyft ever was.
Edit: I must spread reputation before giving it to YSSMAN again (post #131).
Edit 2: Grammar.
Blake
Premium
- 10,976
- NSW, Australia
- haswell00
Actually, I think it does take a lot to get banned on this forum. That’s why I have never really had an issue with this ban (whether it’s temporary or permanent). I know mods don’t take it lightly, and that it’s usually not about a single incident, but a series of actions which go against the spirit of the AUP.
I don’t really see why this ban is such an issue. Moderators decide member is not contributing in a positive manner, they give a temporary ban so member can cool off. Member tries to get around the ban (twice), moderators make it permanent.
Yeah, I like Doug. He’s a good guy. But he was acting like a fool. Now he’s banned because of it. Big deal?
Sakiale
(Banned)
- 2,274
I'm rich, am getting a 5 thousand dollar Cannondale mountain bike, wear Armani suits daily, have expensive Italian loafers, have a beautiful wife and 3 kids, live in a mansion, and own 2 Koenigseggs and a Ferrari 599GTB.
I was permanently banned, and I don't really think I did anything. Granted, I acted like a complete idiot and cursed a few times too many, but still....
I was permanently banned, and I don't really think I did anything. Granted, I acted like a complete idiot and cursed a few times too many, but still....
- 1,795
Nothing against either of them, but why has M5Power's temporary ban resulted in a heated 8 page debate, while Poverty's (relatively) permanent ban never raised so much as a post?
- 2,238
- Brisbane
- Fisho_Man
A fair percentage of the posts here seem to be fairly pointless, actually. It boils down to one thing - there are people who for whatever reason get their jollies by deliberately 'pushing the envelope' with others, then either they or others get up in arms over any consequences. This appears to me to be a case of just this - a bloke was given a specified set of choices, and knowing full well the consequences, made the choice he did. "Case closed, m'lud, the defence has nothing to offer".
As a member of another forum which i consider to be one of the best on the net, i have found one clear aspect which is essential to any functional and healthy forum. Respect for others and their opinions and experiences, with accompanying acceptance but also a willingness to agree to disagree when the situation arises. Considering the number of members of GTPlanet, i reckon this to be a great example of a functional forum. A key ingredient is a willingness of members to put aside personal abuse and rubbish for the greater good (a healthy yet at times robust forum where the common goal or reason for having this forum takes precedent).
To allow this to happen effectively, there does need to be some form of moderation. Whilst at times there may be some kudos, i believe that the generally thankless service that moderators perform either goes unnoticed or draws criticism of some degree. In this case, there does seem to be more of the latter.
I ask you to consider this...without moderation, would this forum be the civilised one which provides much enjoyment and shared knowledge that it is today? Or would you prefer the total anarchy that seems to inhabit other less well run or moderated forums? Any of the Yahoo forums are a perfect example of what can happen when the ********s are allowed to run free and unfettered.
As a member of another forum which i consider to be one of the best on the net, i have found one clear aspect which is essential to any functional and healthy forum. Respect for others and their opinions and experiences, with accompanying acceptance but also a willingness to agree to disagree when the situation arises. Considering the number of members of GTPlanet, i reckon this to be a great example of a functional forum. A key ingredient is a willingness of members to put aside personal abuse and rubbish for the greater good (a healthy yet at times robust forum where the common goal or reason for having this forum takes precedent).
To allow this to happen effectively, there does need to be some form of moderation. Whilst at times there may be some kudos, i believe that the generally thankless service that moderators perform either goes unnoticed or draws criticism of some degree. In this case, there does seem to be more of the latter.
I ask you to consider this...without moderation, would this forum be the civilised one which provides much enjoyment and shared knowledge that it is today? Or would you prefer the total anarchy that seems to inhabit other less well run or moderated forums? Any of the Yahoo forums are a perfect example of what can happen when the ********s are allowed to run free and unfettered.
- 12,486
- CCS
- GTP_Diego
Because not a lot of people liked Poverty
Think of M5Power as you would of Bush... you either like him, or you hate him, but whetever he does will most likely get people talking.
OZZYGT
Premium
- 3,716
- NYC
- OZZYGT
I really don't understand why so many people hold this grudge or hate against Doug, I really never thought he would be that important in your lives, I mean, I've seen people here literally taking their anger out on him, like if you were just waiting for this time to happen and finally speak out what you've always wanted to say. These are the same people that call Doug's friends "fans of him". Why? is it the fact that you think you are not liked like he does? Is it the fact that you've never had anybody defending you or backing you up?
I hate to say this but it seems that all these people (who are not likely to get even a thread if they get banned) are hating on Doug; But I'm talking about the hate that goes involved with jealousy, envy.
And the funny part is that, people here wonder:
"why is Doug so important?", "why are we all talking about his simple temporary ban?", "why is this kid being defended by other members", Yet YOU keep replying on this thread, yet YOU keep making fun of him, yet YOU keep bitching about all this attention that he is getting. So, what is that saying? that to YOU, Doug is not really that unimportant. You could just leave the thread alone and not care about what the other members say....right? 💡
I've discovered, that this is why the internet is so good, because you can talk about the mother of any member (suffering the consequences of a ban of course) and not worrying about meeting that member in real life, and having a possible physical confrontation with that member.
Honestly, I'd REALLY, REALLY, like to meet some of the big mouthed members here, to see if they'd say the same things they say online. Because, sadly, you are still unable to kick somebody's arse through DSL cables...
The thread will be re-opened when Doug gets back here.
I hate to say this but it seems that all these people (who are not likely to get even a thread if they get banned) are hating on Doug; But I'm talking about the hate that goes involved with jealousy, envy.
And the funny part is that, people here wonder:
"why is Doug so important?", "why are we all talking about his simple temporary ban?", "why is this kid being defended by other members", Yet YOU keep replying on this thread, yet YOU keep making fun of him, yet YOU keep bitching about all this attention that he is getting. So, what is that saying? that to YOU, Doug is not really that unimportant. You could just leave the thread alone and not care about what the other members say....right? 💡
I've discovered, that this is why the internet is so good, because you can talk about the mother of any member (suffering the consequences of a ban of course) and not worrying about meeting that member in real life, and having a possible physical confrontation with that member.
Honestly, I'd REALLY, REALLY, like to meet some of the big mouthed members here, to see if they'd say the same things they say online. Because, sadly, you are still unable to kick somebody's arse through DSL cables...
The thread will be re-opened when Doug gets back here.
- Status
