Major League Baseball: 2012 Season
- Thread starter JohnBM01
- 2,618 comments
- 75,427 views
- 1,102
- Richmond, Va
- Scarecrow937
This will forever be known as "The Infield Fly Rule Game". Ugghh...
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,308
- United States
C.r.a.z.y
- 4,537
- Indiana
- DolphDrago
Absolutely terrible call. I would be livid if I was a Braves fan. Actually, I am kind of miffed. Being a Reds fan, I can't stand the Cards. But about the throwing trash on the field, that is unnecessary.
- 3,542
- Marin County, C
Molina isn't even in the conversation.
Posey .336/.408/.549/.957 172 OPS+ 24HR 103RBI 39 2b
Molina .315/.373/.501/.874 137 OPS+ 22HR 76RBI 28 2b
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,308
- United States
Schwartz
Who's making it their excuse? Chipper flat out said the errors cost them the game, not the ump's call.
- 1,139
- Indianapolis
- BJBEOSmitty
Molina might be the best defensive catcher in 50 years... maybe more. He has twice as many pickoff throws as any catcher playing today and his caught stealing % is twice that of the decidedly average Posey.
Molina WILL get MVP votes, as he should. Posey will probably win however. To say Yadi is not in the conversation is ludicrous and speaks to a lack of understanding beyond a few basic numbers.
It doesn't award you for a better season, it awards you for winning your division.Nonsense.... Do you think the Nationals would rather have the Cardinals at home resting, no bullpen pitchers being used at all, the Cards closer Jason Motte not pitching more than an inning last night, instead of playing them in Game 1 of their series with all those pitchers just being used? A starter they know as zero chance of pitching until Game 3 or 4 to help them wth their lineup decisions?
Sure... every year a wildcard has more wins than one of the division winners. I suggest you get over it. If a Wildcard team does not want that to happen they are allowed to win their division.
Re-seeding the top five teams strictly on win-loss records would be azzinine. The teams don't play the same schedule. It is crystal clear. The top three seeds are the division winners. Why are you struggling with this?
Ok, last night.... the infield fly call. Full disclosure, I was born in St. Louis and have been to eight different Wolrd Series games.
Idiots.
Steve Bartman, Don Dekinger and Bill Buckner are even upset at how the Braves fans are reacting. Atlanta committed three errors, left 12 runners on base, had a baserunning gaffe akin to 10 year old little league, and more. Braves fans are conveniently forgetting the bs time out call which allowed the Braves first two runs to score... otherwise they only get one and might have been blown out.
The call itself... if you understand the rule, you know that the location of the player when the infield fly rule is called is not part of the rule. Even an outfielder can catch a pop up ruled an infield fly if the umpire deems the ball easily catchable by the infielder in the area.
Kozma JOGGED eleven steps back to the landing area. More than half of those steps he had either one or both arms extended in the classic "I got it" gesture, signalling to his teammates and the umpires that he had the ball under control, which he did. The call was made when the ball was still quite high in the air. The suggestion that the ball hit the ground before it was called is utter nonsense of "Bartman lost the game!!!" proportions.
Kozma was already under the ball waiting, then inexplicbly bailed at this point. The arm is already up signalling OUT, and the ball is just a few feet onto the screen, in the upper left. The umpire clearly made his decision BEFORE the ball was even visible on the screen and before Kozma bailed, giving way to the lazy Holiday.
Sure, the call was made later in this ball's trajectory than the usual infield fly call, but that is due to the distance the ball and the fielder traveled. Again, LOCATION of the player when the IF rule is invoked is irrelevant and not part of the rule in any way. If an infielder can make the play with normal effort, the rule is in effect no matter where he is. Again... he JOGGED to that spot, never turning his back on the infield.
Was it controversial? Absolutely. I can see it going either way. What the Braves fans did however, was beyond disgusting. Even their manager ripped them for it afterwards, and as mentioned already, Chipper Jones stated they played like crap - it wasn't one single call that ruined the game.
That call, had it gone the Braves way, would not have even given the Braves a single run. If they didn't get a grand slam right after that (if the call had been ruled a hit) then they still needed MULTIPLE hits just to get back to a tie game. They struggled all night with men in scoring position, so I'm not buying it for a second that they got screwed out of a win, or even a good chance to win by any stretch of the imagination.
I remember being very upset when a horrible call (far worse than this one) hurt the Cardinals bad in the 1985 World Series, pretty much costing them what would have been a WS clinching Game 6 win. But I was a kid, and it was easy to overlook the fact that they played like crap in game 7.
The same thing is happening here in my opinion... but with adults.
Last edited:
- 4,687
- Golden State
- xViLLaiNx12
I can't stand the Giants but you have to be insane to not think Posey is the MVP. But then, it's you.
Here you go, being wrong again. You are comparing situations from teams in different divisions.
You are ridiculous. I am over it. How many times do I have to tell you that I like the wildcard system?
Struggling with what? Dude... It's very simple... I'm going to lay it out for you in plain English and then I'm not going to comment on the topic anymore:
The wildcard system awards you for winning your division, not for having a better season.
Which, of course, is the opposite of what you said when you brought up the topic.
If they wanted to award teams for a better season then it would be seeded like the NBA where all that matters is your win/loss record. They'd have the top 5 go no matter what.
- 1,452
- The Speedway
- D3ATHS1NBUNCH3S
Yadi is the best defensive catcher of his era, maybe of all time. And over the past three seasons, he has steadily improved his hitting skills.
- 3,542
- Marin County, C
- 1,452
- The Speedway
- D3ATHS1NBUNCH3S
Benito Santiago better than Molina?
First of all, he juiced, so his stats are tainted. Second, I would vote Alex Avila or J.P. Arencibia over him, considering his stats are tainted. He wouldn't have gotten those stats without Victor Conte's miracle drugs.
First of all, he juiced, so his stats are tainted. Second, I would vote Alex Avila or J.P. Arencibia over him, considering his stats are tainted. He wouldn't have gotten those stats without Victor Conte's miracle drugs.
- 3,542
- Marin County, C
That was cute.
- 1,452
- The Speedway
- D3ATHS1NBUNCH3S
Do you want a generalization of what those steroids did to your performance?
Take Barry Bonds for example. Before the 1999 season (when he began taking steroids) he was built like a marathon runner, averaged about 35 HRs a year, and was one of the best contact hitters of his era.
When he began taking steroids, his build became similar to a NFL linebacker: Bulky, a massive skull, and just flat out huge.
In that 2001 season, Bonds had his 73 home run season. Yup, a player in his mid-30s whose always been a contact hitter suddenly hits for 73 taters. Nothing unusual about that, right?
Take Barry Bonds for example. Before the 1999 season (when he began taking steroids) he was built like a marathon runner, averaged about 35 HRs a year, and was one of the best contact hitters of his era.
When he began taking steroids, his build became similar to a NFL linebacker: Bulky, a massive skull, and just flat out huge.
In that 2001 season, Bonds had his 73 home run season. Yup, a player in his mid-30s whose always been a contact hitter suddenly hits for 73 taters. Nothing unusual about that, right?
- 38,930
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
Wait, so the 2 wildcard teams play a one-and-done game? There's no series?
In other words, the Braves are now out of the playoffs because they lost one game? That's SO STUPID!
What a dumb system. Why make the season matter at all? The extra wildcard spot should at least be a best-of-3.
If they want to do it that way, they should just make the whole MLB season into a giant tournament. Since the MLB season is so long and drawn out, that would make it more bearable. Turn all divisions into round-robin tournaments, then have the top half duke it out in single elimination.
In other words, the Braves are now out of the playoffs because they lost one game? That's SO STUPID!
What a dumb system. Why make the season matter at all? The extra wildcard spot should at least be a best-of-3.
If they want to do it that way, they should just make the whole MLB season into a giant tournament. Since the MLB season is so long and drawn out, that would make it more bearable. Turn all divisions into round-robin tournaments, then have the top half duke it out in single elimination.
- 3,542
- Marin County, C
I've never taken steroids or played professional baseball so I don't what performance your talking about.
Contact hitters don't hit 35 HRs a year. Power hitters do. 1993 he hit 46 HRs.
1996 he hit 42 (as well as 40 SBs).
1997 he hit 40.
1998 he had 37 along with 44 2bs.
1999 he had 34 in 2/3 of a season. (this is when he started having injury problems, the most common time to use the currently legal HGH to improve recover time)
2000 he moved to a more hitter friendly park and hit 49 HRs.
2001 he hit .328
2002 he hit .370
2003 he hit .341
2004 he hit .362
His jump really wasn't 'that' big. He followed it up with 46, 45 and 45.
What about Roger Maris? That's the biggest jump of all freakin' time! First full season he hits 28 then he hits 16 then he hits 39.. Then BOOM 61. Then he only hits 33 then 23 (shortened season) then 26 then never to play a full season again.
Yeah... Bonds... The great contact hitter that hit under .300 and hit 40 bombs... Yep.
- 1,452
- The Speedway
- D3ATHS1NBUNCH3S
"Your performance" was how much the user's performance improved after taking the steroids, not talking about you.
And for your assumption of contact hitters, look at Magglio Ordonez. He was a career .309 hitter, yet averaged between 30-40 homers a year. With the steroids that Bonds took from BALCO, he would likely hit about 50. Read "Game of Shadows" if you don't believe me.
And also, about Bonds' jump from about 45 HRs to 73, and Roger Maris' 29 to 61, your right, but look at the age differences:
Maris was 27, an age where most power hitters are at their peak athletic performance (Jose Bautista is another example).
Bonds was 37, an age when most players lose muscle power and performance, yet Bonds IMPROVES his HR best by TWENTY FOUR HOMERS AT THIRTY SEVEN YEARS OF AGE.
When has there ever been a case in baseball history when a player has this big of a breakout season this late of his career?
And for your assumption of contact hitters, look at Magglio Ordonez. He was a career .309 hitter, yet averaged between 30-40 homers a year. With the steroids that Bonds took from BALCO, he would likely hit about 50. Read "Game of Shadows" if you don't believe me.
And also, about Bonds' jump from about 45 HRs to 73, and Roger Maris' 29 to 61, your right, but look at the age differences:
Maris was 27, an age where most power hitters are at their peak athletic performance (Jose Bautista is another example).
Bonds was 37, an age when most players lose muscle power and performance, yet Bonds IMPROVES his HR best by TWENTY FOUR HOMERS AT THIRTY SEVEN YEARS OF AGE.
When has there ever been a case in baseball history when a player has this big of a breakout season this late of his career?
- 3,542
- Marin County, C
Then clarify that. Saying 'Your performance' is directed at ME.
Bonds was NEVER a pure contact hitter. You act like he was Freddy Sanchez then all the sudden hit 73 bombs. Magglio Ordonez never ONCE hit 40 HRs, he hit 38 HRs as a career high. Through out his 15 year career he averaged 26 HRs per 162. Once again your spewing more crap out of your ass. Once again Bonds was using a HGH a bit different from the 'STEROIDS'. Yes there is quite a difference. HGH not being a banned substance till 2005.
Maris was 26 and Bonds was 36. Outside of a couple season Maris was only average for a corner outfielder. From Bonds third season to his last he was the best player in baseball during that time. And it isn't even close. Even pre-HGH. Marco Scutaro just hit a career high in hits at the age of 37. Sure HGH helped Bonds some, but so did the park change and more better players hitting around him. Bonds has always been a good athlete and is probably in better shape and trains harder then most players nowadays. Bonds also probably has the best instincts of any baseball player ever. The Bautista case has been beaten to death and the reason for his improvements have been proven.
Hell even Babe Ruth (a known rule bender) jumped from 29HR to 54HR. But that was early in his career. Chipper Jones also had a career year a 36 where he hit .364. Hank Aaron's best year was at 37.
- 1,452
- The Speedway
- D3ATHS1NBUNCH3S
"Your performance" is talking about the players who used steroids and it's positive effects on it's users. I'm not accusing you of anything.
Getting a base hit off of a major leaguer is much easier than hitting a home run. Therefore, you will have a better chance of maintaining a period of good hitting the older you get. Hell, Jeter and Ichiro are still doing it!
And also, my friend, Bonds took HGH, yes, but also took these drugs:
"The Cream" - A designer drug created by BALCO
"The Clear" - Same as above; kept a steroid users' T/E ratio at normal levels after using steroids
Insulin - The diabetics drug
Trembolone - Used on livestock
Stanzolol
Clomid - Used for infertility, kept testosterone levels at normal after steroid use
Deca-Durabolin - A steroid used by bodybuilders
Norbolethone - Steroid used in the meat industry, foundation for "The Clear"
Added with the side effect of some of these steroids being numbness to pain, yes, Bonds trained harder than everybody, but could do so with the power of these drugs.
Getting a base hit off of a major leaguer is much easier than hitting a home run. Therefore, you will have a better chance of maintaining a period of good hitting the older you get. Hell, Jeter and Ichiro are still doing it!
And also, my friend, Bonds took HGH, yes, but also took these drugs:
"The Cream" - A designer drug created by BALCO
"The Clear" - Same as above; kept a steroid users' T/E ratio at normal levels after using steroids
Insulin - The diabetics drug
Trembolone - Used on livestock
Stanzolol
Clomid - Used for infertility, kept testosterone levels at normal after steroid use
Deca-Durabolin - A steroid used by bodybuilders
Norbolethone - Steroid used in the meat industry, foundation for "The Clear"
Added with the side effect of some of these steroids being numbness to pain, yes, Bonds trained harder than everybody, but could do so with the power of these drugs.
- 4,687
- Golden State
- xViLLaiNx12
If I had to change anything about the playoff system, I would make it a 3-game wildcard series. But I doubt that would ever happen.
I would also be in favor of reducing the amount of regular season games in order to make it so the playoffs don't drag on into November.
I would also be in favor of reducing the amount of regular season games in order to make it so the playoffs don't drag on into November.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,308
- United States
Go A's!!!
Sorry, had to break up the bickering in here...
Sorry, had to break up the bickering in here...
