Manhunt in SoCal, suspect is surrounded in a cabin, two officers down.
- Thread starter Leonidae@MFT
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- California
- gdwest1
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- Hammerhead Garage
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- Zenith113
How would you be sure that two women sitting in a Toyota Tacoma is a single 270lb 6'1 black man acting with violence towards police officers or civilians while in his 2003 Nissan Titan?
By the fact that the photo clearly shows the police car with spent casings near the doors.
Also where did we confirm this occurred at night?
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- Hammerhead Garage
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- Zenith113
5:30 in LA? Yeah, there's enough light to identify that the truck is a Tacoma, especially from that distance.
Once again, you must be absolutely sure before you open fire on somebody. There is no excuse or logical reason for the action of the police officers. I don't care if the guy was his twin brother and it was pitch black out.
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- Zenith113
See bottom of the post. It doesn't matter what you can't see, it matters what you can.
arora
(Banned)
- 4,098
Was most likely an hour before full sun up, not that it maters anyway.
Since when exactly do we bypass laws and just let cops be executioners? I seriously doubt those ladies where brandishing weapons of any kind, I seriously doubt they where fleeing from the police, I seriously doubt they where driving in such a dangerous manor shooting the driver was justifiable. I seriously doubt any of those policemen's actions where justified at all.
Since when exactly do we bypass laws and just let cops be executioners? I seriously doubt those ladies where brandishing weapons of any kind, I seriously doubt they where fleeing from the police, I seriously doubt they where driving in such a dangerous manor shooting the driver was justifiable. I seriously doubt any of those policemen's actions where justified at all.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Don't know it this has been posted or not :
-dorner-manhunt-career-woes-perceived-racism-fuel-ex-cops-anger.ece
Quoted from the article linked. Why would he killed the daughter of the man who represented him in his effort to keep his job ?
Then this :
dorner-facebook-pages-with-anti-police-sentiments-support-ex-cop-fugitive-1.html
Sounds more complicated than it seems to be ....
-dorner-manhunt-career-woes-perceived-racism-fuel-ex-cops-anger.ece
Quoted from the article linked. Why would he killed the daughter of the man who represented him in his effort to keep his job ?
Then this :
dorner-facebook-pages-with-anti-police-sentiments-support-ex-cop-fugitive-1.html
Sounds more complicated than it seems to be ....
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- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
One thing I have noticed in life is that people will always remember themselves as the victim. He doesn't want his job back - he wants the LAPD to admit that they wrongfully dismissed as part of a cover-up of some kind. Perhaps Dorner believes that there is some kind of conspiracy inside the LAPD. Maybe he thinks the officer he complained about was connected politically, and used that power to pull strings and save his skin as the expense of Dorner's. There are a dozen possible explanations (all of which read like bad fiction), but one thing appears certain: that Dorner believes that if he continues killing those he holds responsible for long enough, that eventually the press will start taking his claims seriously and begin to investigate for themselves. When they find what Dorner regards to be proof of his innocence and/or evidence of that conspiracy, the public will support him, and he will be exonerated for his initial crime and the killing spree will be considered as a necessary evil.
Of course, that's not going to happen, but whether or not it happens is not the point. Dorner believes it will, and that is how he justifies it.
Of course, that's not going to happen, but whether or not it happens is not the point. Dorner believes it will, and that is how he justifies it.
- 3,308
- Kentucky
- Chrunch_Houston
I highly doubt these cops were out to shoot someone innocent.
They were no doubt that they were spooked by something.
I can picture the ladies driving slowly down the street with no head lights, yet swerving from side to side as they threw the papers onto their customers driveways.
The cops saw a similar looking import truck (they all look the same to me) acting suspiciously.
They turn down the street to follow it, as they get close they hear the pop – pop of the news papers hitting the drive ways.
Then all hell breaks loose.
They were no doubt that they were spooked by something.
I can picture the ladies driving slowly down the street with no head lights, yet swerving from side to side as they threw the papers onto their customers driveways.
The cops saw a similar looking import truck (they all look the same to me) acting suspiciously.
They turn down the street to follow it, as they get close they hear the pop – pop of the news papers hitting the drive ways.
Then all hell breaks loose.
- 4,543
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- Zenith113
This guy sounds like he's got special snowflake syndrome.
The 160dB gun-shot like sound of a newspaper hitting the ground?
Their intentions are utterly irrelevant. Anything such as lack of lighting or the inability to read English on the back of a pickup truck are irrelevant. The actions are what matter. What matters is that some woman is now going to have to live with a gunshot wound, possibly for her entire life. What matters is that we have a police force that makes such huge screw-ups, then does it again.
The 160dB gun-shot like sound of a newspaper hitting the ground?
Their intentions are utterly irrelevant. Anything such as lack of lighting or the inability to read English on the back of a pickup truck are irrelevant. The actions are what matter. What matters is that some woman is now going to have to live with a gunshot wound, possibly for her entire life. What matters is that we have a police force that makes such huge screw-ups, then does it again.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Dorner's manifesto about his actions :
Chris Dorner's Online Manifesto About Slayings - no names blocked in his story when he was in LAPD
Long read and language warning
I won't quote the manifesto here, might break AUP.
Well, this part of the manifesto is not :
The link above has all the names complete without censor, the full site link below has the names blocked.
murder-suspect-chris-dorners-online-manifesto-about-slayings
Chris Dorner's Online Manifesto About Slayings - no names blocked in his story when he was in LAPD
Long read and language warning
I won't quote the manifesto here, might break AUP.Well, this part of the manifesto is not :
The link above has all the names complete without censor, the full site link below has the names blocked.
murder-suspect-chris-dorners-online-manifesto-about-slayings
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- 3,308
- Kentucky
- Chrunch_Houston
This guy sounds like he's got special snowflake syndrome.
The 160dB gun-shot like sound of a newspaper hitting the ground?
Their intentions are utterly irrelevant. Anything such as lack of lighting or the inability to read English on the back of a pickup truck are irrelevant. The actions are what matter. What matters is that some woman is now going to have to live with a gunshot wound, possibly for her entire life. What matters is that we have a police force that makes such huge screw-ups, then does it again.
So these cops were just out hunting humans - for a good time.
Are they all killers?
I used to deliver papers when I was a kid. A paper in a plastic bag landing on concrete makes a pretty loud pop.
I really doubt these cops shot for no reason.
Why would they shoot is my question to you - something had to spook them. Right?
Unless they are as dirty as the guy they are after. Are they all killers?
- 4,543
- Bay Area, CA
- Zenith113
Bro, do you even read?
First off, the women were still in the car. This can be deduced by looking at all the bullet holes in the car in the picture.
Second off, I'd go and look up how loud 160dB is if I were you.
Do show me where I said that. Also
He hits a double, everyone!
Do show me where I suggest anything of the sort.
- 3,308
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- Chrunch_Houston
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- lbsf1 GTP_lbsf1
- obsmu (my brothers acount)
And they failed to protect and serve the two innocent people that they shot.
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- Zenith113
Wrong on two accounts. You said that I stated something to suggest this:
Find me where I say anything to that would suggest that. I didn't. If you're going to attempt to straw man me, try harder.
Also considering that you didn't take the time to look at the picture in the article that would have clearly shown you that the women were shot while they were inside the pick-up, I would guess that you know a lot less about this story than I do.
So I guess your answer to my question is "No."
Hat trick, sir.
When I can use the initial post you responded to 3 times, you should probably read it. You're missing something.
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Sunrise or not, they are suppose to confirm a target before shooting. The fact they simply got of their car and unloaded both of their guns into the back of a truck that was not the model is beyond unacceptable.
The fact you are sitting here trying to justify these actions is, honestly, appalling. More so when you tend to jump at a chance to bash the US and our guns.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
I found this alternate version of Dorner's manifesto, not sure if this is the full complete version or not, as the one I linked before was shorter ... I hope an image containing text is not going to break AUP, mods please delete the post if it's deemed offensive.
http://scoot.net/gallery/bbs/dornergif.gif NSFW
Seems to be this one is a "better" version of his manifesto,the fox published manifesto has been edited I presume.
I just read the whole manifesto, the one I linked as image is indeed shorter, the one from FOX is longer, my bad. Thanks, Famine, I made a mistake there.
http://scoot.net/gallery/bbs/dornergif.gif NSFW
Seems to be this one is a "better" version of his manifesto,
I just read the whole manifesto, the one I linked as image is indeed shorter, the one from FOX is longer, my bad. Thanks, Famine, I made a mistake there.
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- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Who said I was justifying them?
I'm responding to comments like this, which insinuate that it should have been immediately obvious to the police that the car was not being driven by their suspect:
And I'm trying to show that however unjustified the shooting, you can at least understand why the police acted the way they did:
1) A former police officer and naval reservist who has received awards for marksmanship and pistol shooting, is going on a killing spree.
2) He has published a manifesto in which he delcares war on the police department and names people who he specifically intends to murder.
3) Four hours previously, the suspect had ambushed two separate police units, killing one officer and injuring two others.
4) The officers involved in the shooting in Torrance saw a car which matched the description of the suspect's vehicle. It was approaching the home of one of the officers named in the manifesto, was moving in the pre-dawn light without headlights, was a similar colour to the suspects vehcile (perhaps so similar that the differences may not have been observed in the level of light) and because it was delivering papers, it was probably weaving back and forwards, which to the ignorant eye would no doubt appear to be very odd.
5) The point has been made that the police were equipped with a spotlight that they should have used to identify the car. Given the way the suspect ambushed two separate police units, turning that light on would have drawn his attention and probably would have resulted in him opening fire.
Furthermore, it comes as some surprise to me that there is a group of you who are very much in favour of gun ownership, but from what you have posted here, apparently don't understand what it means for a police officer to draw his or her weapon. Most police will only ever do it at a firing range - very few draw their weapon on a suspect, and fewer still will fire. In the midst of a high pressure situation, you seem to think that they can somehow draw upon an encyclopaedic knowledge of trucks (which you assume they have simply because you have it) and accurately distinguish between two similar models in ambient light conditions that are so poor that headlights would be otherwise necessary.
So, at the very least, you can understand why the police might have acted the way they did, and ignored the regulations. Faced with a situation - a cop killer who is a killer cop - the likes of which has not been seen in recent memory, if at all, they made a decision based on all of the available infomation at the time. And if you can't understand why they acted the way they did, then you have no right to accuse others of trying to justify what they did, since you clearly don't understand the intent to that person's post.
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- Anoka, MN
Of course I don't expect them to, this however is what I expect them to do...
1) Call for backup
2) Remain a safe distance until said backup arrives, which I would imagine would be rather quick given the location and circumstances.
3) IF he gets out and heads towards the home THAN open fire.
Of course most just call that standard operating procedure.
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- Hammerhead Garage
Nevertheless, you said that you would not have opened fire because you can tell the difference between the trucks.
That suggests that the police could not tell the difference between the trucks.
You present this one variable as something that could have been changed, and that doing so would have changed the outcome of the situation.
Therefore, by having the knowledge of the differences between the trucks, the police could tell the difference between the trucks.
However, given the ambient light conditions at the time of the incident, the knowledge needed to tell the difference between the trucks would have to be so extensive as to be near encyclopaedic.
You don't think it's a little unreasonable to expect half the police in Los Angeles to have tihs knowledge?
- 24,636
- Anoka, MN
Tacoma=Compact truck
Titan=Full Size truck
If that's encyclopaedic I guess I'm Albert Einstein.💡
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
The Toyota Tacoma riddled with bullets, the Tacoma badge is very clearly seen, big and shiny.
Note how many bullet holes on the back window and rear tailgate door, seems to be trigger happy officers there.
Suspect's car as believed by the police :
The rear of Nissan Titan :
Note the huge Nissan badge and different rear lights as well badges.
The Tacoma rear shot :
Seems not too hard to differentiate these trucks even in low light, if the cops often do street patrol.
Note how many bullet holes on the back window and rear tailgate door, seems to be trigger happy officers there.
Suspect's car as believed by the police :
The rear of Nissan Titan :
Note the huge Nissan badge and different rear lights as well badges.
The Tacoma rear shot :
Seems not too hard to differentiate these trucks even in low light, if the cops often do street patrol.
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- Zenith113
Telling the difference between a Nissan Titan and a Toyota Tundra is part of identifying the vehicle. This is a single requirement in a checklist that must be true in order for these officers to have any sort of an excuse. Here's the short list.
Does the car match the suspect's? (No, the badge is also easily identifiable from that distance).
Do the occupants match the expected occupants? (No, two people instead of one)
Are any of the occupants matching the description of the suspect (No, female. No, not 270lbs. Skin color tbd)
Are the occupants armed? (Unknown, no weapons or anything similar in sight)
Are the occupants making actions that actions that directly threaten the safety of innocents? (No. They were sitting in a freaking truck.)
If the answer to any of these is "No" then firing is almost always a no-go. Firing may only be justified if all (with the exception of the first two) are a definite "Yes."
Stop trying to make excuses for these guys. They shot an innocent person as a result of poor judgement. If they were unsure due to any amount of adverse conditions or their own inability to gather the correct data, then they should not have opened fire on what could have been and unsurprisingly turned out to be innocent people. Why does this require spelling out?
Does the car match the suspect's? (No, the badge is also easily identifiable from that distance).
Do the occupants match the expected occupants? (No, two people instead of one)
Are any of the occupants matching the description of the suspect (No, female. No, not 270lbs. Skin color tbd)
Are the occupants armed? (Unknown, no weapons or anything similar in sight)
Are the occupants making actions that actions that directly threaten the safety of innocents? (No. They were sitting in a freaking truck.)
If the answer to any of these is "No" then firing is almost always a no-go. Firing may only be justified if all (with the exception of the first two) are a definite "Yes."
Stop trying to make excuses for these guys. They shot an innocent person as a result of poor judgement. If they were unsure due to any amount of adverse conditions or their own inability to gather the correct data, then they should not have opened fire on what could have been and unsurprisingly turned out to be innocent people. Why does this require spelling out?
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