MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

[Pizzle13]

Chances are these people like to keep track of Putin's whereabouts too, so you think they'd notice that the plane was coming from the wrong end of Europe.

i can imagine that would be too easy for somebody that actually really want to harm a presidential plane
apart from the "dummy" planes that fly with it i think they would fly strange routes too just to eliminate "patterns"
predictable patterns are how assassins pick the spot to do their targets

 

[NT_03]

Anyhow, this might be off-topic.. But, some theories are that MH17 is a false flag, and is simply MH370 in disguise, and the actual MH17 is taken in a military base.

Some theories came from This site and TenEightyOne's post.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Anyhow, this might be off-topic.. But, some theories are that MH17 is a false flag, and is simply MH370 in disguise, and the actual MH17 is taken in a military base.

Some theories came from This site and TenEightyOne's post.

Sadly those theories depend on altered-or-invented truths, and a bit of evidence mangling.

I'm always open-minded about these things... but this one didn't last too long in my mind

The only interesting evidence was the window arrangement... but 5 mins on google shows a timeline of the plane with and without the window.

 

[Pizzle13]

Anyhow, this might be off-topic.. But, some theories are that MH17 is a false flag, and is simply MH370 in disguise, and the actual MH17 is taken in a military base.

Some theories came from This site and @TenEightyOne 's post.

why would you take 1 extra step like that
if you want to do a false flag just shoot the plane in the first place
for another false flag? again, just shoot it
a false flag doesnt require a step to hijack one and specifically "use" it later

 

[TenEightyOne]

why would you take 1 extra step like that
if you want to do a false flag just shoot the plane in the first place
for another false flag? again, just shoot it
a false flag doesnt require a step to hijack one and specifically "use" it later

Exactly, it would be the World's Stupidest Clever Secret Plan.

 

[IforceV8]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/what-happened-day-flight-17-was-downed

 

[TenEightyOne]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/what-happened-day-flight-17-was-downed

Just posting a link without comment is a bit odd. What are you trying to say about it?

Have you read that article? It seems to be written by an overexcited 14-year-old and pays scant attention to known facts. A gripping read of fiction, I'll grant you.

It should be subtitled "Fifty Shades of Brown".

the Buk's crew snapped to attention when a spotter called in a report of an incoming airplane.

I genuinely laughed aloud at that, so much so that the acronym escaped me momentarily

 

[IforceV8]

Ok how about this story has nothing do with a plane full of zombies or MH370 or any other 🤬 ideas proposed by the DPR and Russia.

 

[mister dog]

a plane full of zombies

Citation required!

 

[TenEightyOne]

Ok how about this story has nothing do with a plane full of zombies or MH370 or any other 🤬 ideas proposed by the DPR and Russia.

Citation required!

Yes, and wash your potty mouth out.

 

[Rage Racer]

Ok how about this story has nothing do with a plane full of zombies or MH370 or any other 🤬 ideas proposed by the DPR and Russia.

Well, I think the theory of exercise of Ukrainian PVO (AA defense) with a blank launch turned out live launch (like it already was in 2001 with a Siberia Airlines flight) is not so "🤬" to call it as unreal as "zombies on the plane" you're talking about. Not that I claim it really was so, but when there's no proof of DPR's or RF's fault, it's not the time to say "this story has nothing to do with X, but it has with Y, I'm 146% sure!" yet.

 

[GTracer98]

These three links are interesting because they point out why the official story is not convincing.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh17-s...dars-contradict-wests-baseless-claims/5392468

http://www.infowars.com/u-s-admits-its-mh17-evidence-is-based-on-youtube-clips-social-media-posts/

http://journal-neo.org/2014/07/19/mh17-world-see-tragedy-us-sees-game-changer/


Again, we could argue that it's just Russian propaganda but I doubt it. Plus, if the US (the West) and Russia both make propaganda stories, where on Earth can we get true, unbiased information based on facts?

 

[Scaff]

These three links are interesting because they point out why the official story is not convincing.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh17-s...dars-contradict-wests-baseless-claims/5392468

http://www.infowars.com/u-s-admits-its-mh17-evidence-is-based-on-youtube-clips-social-media-posts/

http://journal-neo.org/2014/07/19/mh17-world-see-tragedy-us-sees-game-changer/


Again, we could argue that it's just Russian propaganda but I doubt it. Plus, if the US (the West) and Russia both make propaganda stories, where on Earth can we get true, unbiased information based on facts?

If you try really hard you can find more biased site to source information from, but to be honest it would be a challenge, particularly in the case of Infowars (who are quite happy to simply make stuff up to try and generate conspiracy and simply ignore what doesn't fit the view they hold).

 

[GTracer98]

Then give me a link which you find unbiased and true. A link which gives evidence that the official story is true.

 

[Famine]

If you try really hard you can find more biased site to source information from, but to be honest it would be a challenge

Why did I immediately think of Carlos Kavros right there?

 

[Scaff]

Why did I immediately think of Carlos Kavros right there?

Oh wow - I had almost forgotten about him. If we ask nicely do you think he will be back here?

 

[NT_03]

These three links are interesting because they point out why the official story is not convincing.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh17-s...dars-contradict-wests-baseless-claims/5392468

http://www.infowars.com/u-s-admits-its-mh17-evidence-is-based-on-youtube-clips-social-media-posts/

http://journal-neo.org/2014/07/19/mh17-world-see-tragedy-us-sees-game-changer/


Again, we could argue that it's just Russian propaganda but I doubt it. Plus, if the US (the West) and Russia both make propaganda stories, where on Earth can we get true, unbiased information based on facts?

And not just fiction, like some social media posts.

 

[Scaff]

And not just fiction, like social media.

All social media is fiction?

Just because it comes from social media doesn't make it fiction, just as coming from an 'official' source doesn't make it a fact.

Here's a heads-up, those sites you are ranking about social media are well know for fiction (oh and selling you special survival iodine - http://www.infowarsshop.com/Survival-Shield-X-2_p_1322.html?ims=kdttz).

 

[mister dog]

I think any man can conclude for himself what happened if 1: you look over which territory it happened 2: you take into consideration a BUK was spotted in the hands of the seperatists in the area just before, 3: you remember the hastily deleted tweet that they downed an Antonov, 4: you look how "easily" those rebels cooperated with the investigation afterwards, 5: Russian media 'forgetting' to mention it on their front pages and 6: See the damage of schrapnel from an exploded rocket on the chunks of plane that came falling down...

You don't need to be a Sherlock to put one and two together here.

 

[Dennisch]

You don't need to be a Sherlock to put one and two together here.

But looks at the facts, man! It's an obvious conspiracy, man! Obama and Ukraine are working together to hide it all, man!

Thanks, Obama!

 

[mister dog]

But looks at the facts, man! It's an obvious conspiracy, man! Obama and Ukraine are working together to hide it all, man!

Thanks, Obama!

And i didn't make this even

 

[Dennisch]

Apparently the Ukraine army is trying to regain control over the area of the crash, and thus heavy fighting is going on.

 

[Dotini]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh17-s...dars-contradict-wests-baseless-claims/5392468

http://www.infowars.com/u-s-admits-its-mh17-evidence-is-based-on-youtube-clips-social-media-posts/

http://journal-neo.org/2014/07/19/mh17-world-see-tragedy-us-sees-game-changer/

"Indeed, the evidence suggested Kiev’s regime deployed anti-air missile systems in Donetsk in and around the area where flight MH17 crashed. They also provided information regarding Ukrainian warplanes trailing flight MH17, the possibility of an air-to-air attack on MH17, and inconsistencies with Ukrainian air traffic control."

I think this blurb from your first link is the most interesting. At a very minimum, the suggestion that Ukrainian warplanes trailed MH17 and ATC communications are sequestered raises the ugly possibility that the Ukraine government knew MH17 was going in harm's way. A serious legal liability now looms. No wonder their PM has resigned, with Svoboda and UDAR leaving the parliament.

It makes sense that Kiev would deploy AA hardware in Donetsk, since their Su-25 attack fighters were enjoying immense success against the rebels, which Russia and the rebels were attempting to knock down with SAMs and air-to-air missiles.

The really surprising thing is lack of confirmation or comment on Kiev's assertion that a Russian fighter shot down an Su-25 over Ukraine. That is a very serious development - if true.


More related news
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-faces-intel-hurdles-downing-airliner-24726537

Edit:
A curious report with a bearing on our question.
http://rt.com/news/175476-bbc-deleted-report-mh17/

 

[TenEightyOne]

The shooting of the jet "may be a war crime", UN says. (BBC)

 

[mister dog]

The shooting of the jet "may be a war crime", UN says. (BBC)

Can't the UN just do their little meetings and... shut up?

 

[GTracer98]

So, Storm Clouds Gathering, a channel that gets quite a lot of views and that I've been keeping an eye on for a long time, has released a video regarding MH17. It points out to the missing evidence from the part of the US.



Here's the article on their webpage:

http://scgnews.com/flight-mh17-what-youre-not-being-told


Again, don't take everything there as truth, do your research to check that.

 

[TenEightyOne]

http://scgnews.com/flight-mh17-what-youre-not-being-told
Again, don't take everything there as truth, do your research to check that.

Good God what did I just read?

The evidence relating to MH17 (really a clickbait fragment of the overall article) is based on guesswork, very biased sources and misinformation.

The rest of the time it ranges madly across the Lusitania sinking, Christine LeGarde, some really odd grammar and mostly coloured by a massively anti-US agenda.

The reference to TWA800 (not Iranian, as they apologise for pointing out) is silly, it wasn't shot down; it's easy to see that from the crash report and it's also easy to see why some witnesses genuinely thought they'd witnessed a missile strike. For me that sets the factual level (or at least the motivation to be factual) for this piece.

Are there any parts of this article that you think are really worth checking out?

 

[GTracer98]

Depends on your bias. Whilst this article may seem biased in your eyes, don't you think that the mainstream media is also biased? If you think about it, everything is a little bit biased, so where should we take the true information from?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Depends on your bias. Whilst this article may seem biased in your eyes, don't you think that the mainstream media is also biased? If you think about it, everything is a little bit biased, so where should we take the true information from?

You can do a lot of research of a lot of sources outside the big pay-news providers to debunk the aircraft-based portions of that immediately. The exception to that (for me) is the use of the UN helicopter; but the TWA800 claim is ludicrous (and the evidence is clear and independent, if you wish I'll find you a post here that covers it in detail) and the MH17 claims hinge on very one-sided claims about US actions and so on.

Other than that the article isn't really related but at first pass looks to be based on the same one-dodgy-source style. It really looks as though it's a slightly older article that's being resold in an MH17-themed wrapper. Same old agenda, new headline.

 

[GTracer98]

Then please post the link of the TWA800 evidence.

While I did notice that the article didn't talk that much about MH17, I'm still interested why the US isn't releasing evidence. I saw the RT video where they show Russian satellite images, now where's the US ones?