MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

[Pizzle13]

You can do a lot of research of a lot of sources outside the big pay-news providers to debunk the aircraft-based portions of that immediately. The exception to that (for me) is the use of the UN helicopter; but the TWA800 claim is ludicrous (and the evidence is clear and independent, if you wish I'll find you a post here that covers it in detail) and the MH17 claims hinge on very one-sided claims about US actions and so on.

Other than that the article isn't really related but at first pass looks to be based on the same one-dodgy-source style. It really looks as though it's a slightly older article that's being resold in an MH17-themed wrapper. Same old agenda, new headline.

while i agree with you
i still find it amazing that for some people in their positions it is totally normal to shoot down civillian planes as a plan
thanks to that video i read about operation northwoods, as i did not know about it before, kinda shocked
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

makes it very clear that alot of people high above you certainly do not give a **** about you at all
to us its shocking when they shoot down civillian planes to them it must be like a game

 

[GTracer98]

while i agree with you
i still find it amazing that for some people in their positions it is totally normal to shoot down civillian planes as a plan
thanks to that video i read about operation northwoods, as i did not know about it before, kinda shocked
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

makes it very clear that alot of people high above you certainly do not give a **** about you at all
to us its shocking when they shoot down civillian planes to them it must be like a game

That's why I think: if that has happened in the past (Northwoods), there's no reason why it can't happen these days.

 

[Dotini]

Are there any parts of this article that you think are really worth checking out?

Here's a part worth checking out - or studiously avoiding, depending on your loyalties.

"Why was flight MH17 routed over directly over a war zone? This was not a normal flight path. In fact it was 300 miles off course. Normally planes this flight path keep significantly farther south, and the decision to allow MH17 to fly over Donetsk was ultimately the decision of the authorities in Kiev.

Now, Kiev initially claimed that they were acting under the assumption that this route was safe as long as the flight stayed above 32,000 feet, which is out of range for man-pad surface to air missiles. But that statement was later contradicted by Ukraine officials who said they knew three days before the downing of MH17 that that the separatists had the Buk missile system, which is capable of hitting aircraft at much higher altitudes. So either the Ukrainian government is lying about the separatists having the missiles, or they routed flight MH17 300 miles off course, KNOWING that it could be easily shot down."

In addition to that, worth checking out are reports that MH17 was trailed by Ukrainian fighter jets, reports that ATC transcripts are withheld, and overhead surveillance photography withheld.

If you deny that checking out these questions is worthwhile, then its plain that you are taking a partisan position.

 

[TenEightyOne]

"Why was flight MH17 routed over directly over a war zone? This was not a normal flight path. In fact it was 300 miles off course. Normally planes this flight path keep significantly farther south, and the decision to allow MH17 to fly over Donetsk was ultimately the decision of the authorities in Kiev.

Because of weather reports. Perfectly normal. You refer back to this quite a bit but haven't found any reason why the airline, ATC, or international air safety authorities might have declared a danger in high-altitude airspace. There was no apparent reason.

Now, Kiev initially claimed that they were acting under the assumption that this route was safe as long as the flight stayed above 32,000 feet, which is out of range for man-pad surface to air missiles. But that statement was later contradicted by Ukraine officials who said they knew three days before the downing of MH17 that that the separatists had the Buk missile system, which is capable of hitting aircraft at much higher altitudes. So either the Ukrainian government is lying about the separatists having the missiles, or they routed flight MH17 300 miles off course, KNOWING that it could be easily shot down.

No proof for this claim, nothing but a gentle disclaimer. Mr Nayda gets quoted in a lot of places, he's still a single source who seems to be out-knowing the rest of the world.

In addition to that, worth checking out are reports that MH17 was trailed by Ukrainian fighter jets, reports that ATC transcripts are withheld, and overhead surveillance photography withheld.

Only the first of those is of any significance. This is a criminal act, either a civil crime or a war crime (as I linked earlier, the UN are inclined towards it being a war crime). ATC transcripts are considered evidence after any crash and aren't normally published unless the cause is immediately apparent and then, generally, only in the more "simple" accidents.

Overhead surveillance photography is likely to be valuable to enemies (you pointed out yourself that this is a war zone), the US might be unlikely to wish to publish that either.

If you deny that checking out these questions is worthwhile, then its plain that you are taking a partisan position.

Quite right, I couldn't agree more. But they're not new points, are they? And they've been checked out... with the except of the tailing jets. Again, that seems to rely on the single Iranian source. Interesting (and possibly significant) if there were two HAVCAP jets... but only one source has said there were.

 

[Dotini]

Quite right, I couldn't agree more.

Now that you've self-identified as a partisan, you must understand that, ipso facto, you have diminished credibility as an objective commentator or seeker of truth going forward in this thread. All that remains is to openly flesh out your hierarchy of loyalties.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Now that you've self-identified as a partisan, you must understand that, ipso facto, you have diminished credibility as an objective commentator or seeker of truth going forward in this thread. All that remains is to openly flesh out your hierarchy of loyalties.

Noooo...., I agreed with you that a denial of interest in those questions would be partisan. But thanks for offering

You seem too keen to eat the hard-line agendas that support these theories, they make exciting reading but add little to a genuine search for the truth.

 

[Dotini]

You seem too keen to eat the hard-line agendas that support these theories, they make exciting reading but add little to a genuine search for the truth.

Too many times I've seen a stampede to war based on sexed-up dossiers. Truth is the first casualty in war.

Though I quickly agree exciting reading is a plus, my only agenda is to expect everyone involved in conflict to lie through their teeth and use every means possible to secure their own interests.

 

[Pizzle13]

even tho it has nothing direrctly to do with mh17 i find this really ****ed up and it shows how deceiving the general public is basicly their job ... even if the US has nothing to do with what happened now, it makes you think that why wouldnt other countries have similar "plans"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama, or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.

1. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.

and this is just as ****ed up:

While near the Cuban Island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. No other calls would be made. The pilot would then fly directly west at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who had performed the mission under an alias, would resume his proper identity and return to his normal place of business. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared.At precisely the same time that the aircraft was presumably shot down, a submarine or small surface craft would disburse F-101 parts, parachute, etc., at approximately 15 to 20 miles off the Cuban coast and depart. The pilots returning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched and parts of aircraft found.

considering its from the 60s
i dont even want to find out what diffrent plans and tactics these diffrent nations have right now,
and where else they have their fingers in the game, it makes me throw up

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

even tho it has nothing direrctly to do with mh17 i find this really ****ed up and it shows how deceiving the general public is basicly their job ... even if the US has nothing to do with what happened now, it makes you think that why wouldnt other countries have similar "plans"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods


and this is just as ****ed up:



considering its from the 60s
i dont even want to find out what diffrent plans and tactics these diffrent nations have right now,
and where else they have their fingers in the game, it makes me throw up

Yes the world is a screwed up place with many sinister people. Sadly they don't end up writing fictional tales like say the Flight of the Dead in Sherlock (once again). I wish I could say I was surprised by what you posted, but I'm not in the least and I've heard about this some time ago.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Besides, @Dotini, I had already posted real time weather at the time of the crash. For your sake, I'll do it again:

 

[Scaff]

So either the Ukrainian government is lying about the separatists having the missiles, or they routed flight MH17 300 miles off course, KNOWING that it could be easily shot down."

Which raises the question as to why they present only these two options and ignore the one presented in the source article?

That a number of airlines were still using the northern flight route (which at the time was not a 'no fly zone') as it presented a quicker and therefore cheaper route, they also (rather strongly) imply that the was 300 kms off course. It was not, its was 300km off the course some other airlines were using. It however was on course, even the source article doesn't miss-position this fact.

"Experts claimed that operators continued to fly across the zone because it was the quickest and cheapest route for some flights.

Norman Shanks, a former head of group security at the BAA airports group, said: "Malaysia Airlines, like a number of other carriers, has been continuing to use it because it is a shorter route, which means less fuel and therefore less money.""

Indeed flight density for the days around the incident clearly support that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28356745

even tho it has nothing direrctly to do with mh17 i find this really ****ed up and it shows how deceiving the general public is basicly their job ... even if the US has nothing to do with what happened now, it makes you think that why wouldnt other countries have similar "plans"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods


and this is just as ****ed up:



considering its from the 60s
i dont even want to find out what diffrent plans and tactics these diffrent nations have right now,
and where else they have their fingers in the game, it makes me throw up

Two things, one AUP related the other not.

First, why are you presented Northwood as anything other than a work of fantasy planning from the CIA's mental days of the '60's? Your doing all you can to imply that these plans were put into action, yet they were rejected out of hand by government (and the CIA hardly has a great track record with carrying out 'secret' plans now do they). You wish to cry 'false flag, then back it up with some actual citations.

Secondly, when you joined GT Planet you agreed to follow the AUP, part of which reads....

• You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters."

...please ensure that all your future posts are corrector capitalised.

 

[Pizzle13]

Why present only these two options and ignore the one presented in your own source article?

That a number of airlines were still using the northern flight route (which at the time was not a 'no fly zone') as it presented a quicker and therefore cheaper route, you also (rather strongly) imply that the was 300 kms off course. It was not, its was 300km off the course some other airlines were using. It however was on course, even your source article doesn't miss-position this fact.

"Experts claimed that operators continued to fly across the zone because it was the quickest and cheapest route for some flights.

Norman Shanks, a former head of group security at the BAA airports group, said: "Malaysia Airlines, like a number of other carriers, has been continuing to use it because it is a shorter route, which means less fuel and therefore less money.""


Please don't complain about 'partisan' voices and truth being a casualty when you are misrepresenting sources to this degree.



Two things, one AUP related the other not.

First, why are you presented Northwood as anything other than a work of fantasy planning from the CIA's mental days of the '60's? Your doing all you can to imply that these plans were put into action, yet they were rejected out of hand by government (and the CIA hardly has a great track record with carrying out 'secret' plans now do they). You wish to cry 'false flag, then back it up with some actual citations.

Secondly, when you joined GT Planet you agreed to follow the AUP, part of which reads....

• You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters."

...please ensure that all your future posts are corrector capitalised.

as i said i before i only found out about these plans for the first time ever because of a previous post in this thread and its a mind**** to me
wether these plans were done or NOT, it is already shocking to me that some people (Department of Defense to be specific) would even CONSIDER doing something like that ... and thats in the 60s ... just imagine their plans now, with technology that we dont even know about yet.
rejected by somebody that got assassinated in the following year leaves a bitter taste too

what happened to mh17 is not directly connected, yep i already mentioned that too
but things like these actually make you think, not only about mh17, but about everything else that happened in the past and what we might see in the future
im not much of a politcal dude but i must say ...
documents like these just show that for a greater cause they would even consider attacks on civilians
to me it makes it seem that countires attacking their own people is not a really far fetched idea anymore,
and can indeed happen.
and im not only talking about the US, thats why i wrote:

"i dont even want to find out what diffrent plans and tactics these diffrent nations have right now,
and where else they have their fingers in the game, it makes me throw up"

 

[Scaff]

as i said i before i only found out about these plans for the first time ever because of a previous post in this thread and its a mind**** to me
wether these plans were done or NOT, it is already shocking to me that some people (Department of Defense to be specific, not CIA) would even CONSIDER doing something like that ... and thats in the 60s ... just imagine their plans now, with technology that we dont even know about yet.
rejected by somebody that got assassinated in the following year leaves a bitter taste too

Why exactly does it shock you to think that people are asked to come up with a wide variety of plan ranging from the absurd to the sane?

Its what plans people in-act that count, rather than getting hung up over every single 'blue-skies' plan that has ever existed (most of which would never actually work).

I fail to see what Kennedy's assassination has to do with it either?

what happened to mh17 is not directly connected, yep i already mentioned that too

Then why keep bringing it up?

but things like these actually make you think, not only about mh17, but about everything else that happened in the past and what we might see in the future

I would much rather deal with what we know and use that to determine what happened, utterly asinine speculation like this simply leads to conspiracy theory nonsense.

im not much of a politcal dude but i must say ...
documents like these just show that for a greater cause they would even consider attacks on civilians
to me it makes it seem that countires attacking their own people is not a really far fetched idea anymore,
and can indeed happen.
and im not only talking about the US, thats why i wrote:

"i dont even want to find out what diffrent plans and tactics these diffrent nations have right now,
and where else they have their fingers in the game, it makes me throw up"

And once again your making that leap into the world of conspiracy theory.

Two tips for the future, stick to facts and start using the shift key (as if you post again in violation of the AUP you will be getting a formal warning).

 

[TenEightyOne]

Then please post the link of the TWA800 evidence.

This post in the MH370 thread (and one a couple of posts after) give an overview of the investigation. Some witnesses genuinely believed that they'd witnessed a missile strike on an aircraft (sound is muuuuuch slower than light) and reported that to the FBI. The remainder was a comedy of institutional error, but without the humour. The FBI took over immediately and all-but-excluded the accident investigators. The FBI followed a normal US criminal-evidence-gathering procedure that actually led witnesses, eg "Did you see the missile hit the plane?", far from the norm in air-crash interviews.

Fortunately investigators follow science rather than law and believe in evidence more than guesses and eventually they won out after the aircraft was fully reassembled (an incredible feat) and the cause of the incident (a bomb in the lavatories) became clear.

Do not believe me. I'm just some nutter on the internet. Read the NTSB Report on the incident (a very thorough document indeed), also linked in those posts.

Then go and Google some conspiracy evidence. You'll find a lot of compelling reading, so it's up to you to judge whose facts you trust the most. You'll learn a lot about conspiracy theories very quickly...

While I did notice that the article didn't talk that much about MH17, I'm still interested why the US isn't releasing evidence. I saw the RT video where they show Russian satellite images, now where's the US ones?

This is a criminal act. As I linked earlier, the UN have decided that it's a war crime. By definition that makes it a war crime. Even if it wasn't a war crime it would still be a civil crime.

My guess is that given the criminal nature of the incident and the tense diplomatic situation the ATC continues to be withheld. It's not unusual for that to happen, are you suggesting otherwise?

The other evidence would be the satellite imagery; presumably taken with military (or government-contracted) resources. They've released some artillery evidence but, for other sensitive images, see my above comments.

 

[Pizzle13]

I would much rather deal with what we know and use that to determine what happened, utterly asinine speculation like this simply leads to conspiracy theory nonsense.

Two tips for the future, stick to facts and start using the shift key (as if you post again in violation of the AUP you will be getting a formal warning).

thats how i use to think too
after the link somebody posted to the secret plan that got released decades later, not anymore.
to me now the "facts" that the general public knows, could be what they carefully want you to know.

Two tips for the future, stick to facts and start using the shift key (as if you post again in violation of the AUP you will be getting a formal warning).

here is a cool fact,
while i am not a big fan of conspiracy theories either, as i am not big on politics or events like this
there are more than 20 "conspiracy" theories that turned out to be true decades later.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Two tips for the future, stick to facts and start using the shift key (as if you post again in violation of the AUP you will be getting a formal warning).

there is a cool fact,
while i am not a big fan of conspiracy theories either, as i am not big on politics or events like this
there are more than 20 "conspiracy" theories that turned out to be true decades later.

Finally, somebody who's having a worse week than me!

@Pizzle13, @Scaff was saying you should put capital letters (Shift Key) when they're needed... you might wish to edit your post?

Please list 21 conspiracy theories that turned out to be true decades later, or PM them to me. That sounds fascinating!

 

[Dotini]

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/stor...-guidance-on-airspace-safety-after-mh17-crash
MONTREAL/TORONTO - Global airlines will push to get "neutral information" on whether to use or avoid airspace over conflict zones at Tuesday's meeting of the UN aviation agency and other airline bodies, a European-based airline industry source said.

The UN agency, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), has invited the heads of the airline industry, airports and the world's air traffic control networks to the Montreal meeting to discuss what needs to be changed to ensure that airliners are flying in secure airspace after the downing of a Malaysian airliner over Ukraine on July 17 took 298 lives.

The meeting is likely to hear calls for wider international powers to intervene when a country fails to monitor threats to its airspace. The Malaysia Airlines crash occurred after Ukraine left open air corridors that lay within the range of the missile blamed for destroying the jet.

Airlines, represented by International Air Transport Association, will tell the meeting they urgently need improved access to "neutral information based on objective criteria," the industry source said.

"Airlines do not have CIA operatives working for them," said the source who spoke on condition of anonymity. "At the end of the day, airlines have to decide whether to fly or not based on accurate information.

"Yet some countries will never, ever say there is a problem with their airspace even if there really is a problem with their airspace. This does not make it easy for airlines."

http://news.sky.com/story/1309233/air-bosses-discuss-routes-after-mh17-downing
The issues under debate could have far-reaching consequences for air passengers everywhere.

The conference, hosted by the UN's International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO), will examine how to more effectively mitigate risks to passenger planes arising from conflict zones.

Top officials representing airliners, air traffic control and airports are attending amid wide acknowledgement that the tragedy in eastern Ukraine raised serious questions about the safety of flying over, or near, troubled regions across the world.

The flight route and airspace used by MH17 were not closed, although several airlines such as Qantas, British Airways and Cathay Pacific had been avoiding the area for some time before the incident.

 

[TenEightyOne]

"Airlines do not have CIA operatives working for them," said the source who spoke on condition of anonymity. "At the end of the day, airlines have to decide whether to fly or not based on accurate information.

"Yet some countries will never, ever say there is a problem with their airspace even if there really is a problem with their airspace. This does not make it easy for airlines."

None of that is to say that the Ukrainian government either withheld information or held responsibility for the airspace.

This request addresses a problem where if a government held risk information based on secret intelligence sources they would be unwilling to share it with neutral, civilian bodies. That seems a quite obvious concern to address but doing so doesn't imply or prove any guilt or responsibility in this particular case.

The flight route and airspace used by MH17 were not closed, although several airlines such as Qantas, British Airways and Cathay Pacific had been avoiding the area for some time before the incident.

And many equally-reputable airlines continued to use it. It is (or was) an extremely busy air corridor. Interesting that Lufthansa hadn't avoided it, if there were any credible intelligence doing the rounds one would expect the Germans to have been aware of it, or collecting their own.

 

[Dotini]

None of that is to say that the Ukrainian government either withheld information or held responsibility for the airspace.

It's good to know that Ukraine never held responsibility for its airspace.

 

[Pizzle13]

Finally, somebody who's having a worse week than me!

@Pizzle13, @Scaff was saying you should put capital letters (Shift Key) when they're needed... you might wish to edit your post?

Please list 21 conspiracy theories that turned out to be true decades later, or PM them to me. That sounds fascinating!

here are atleast 11, im sure when you do some research theres some more to be found.
i would actually love to live when the children of my grandchildren
find out the truth about some events that occured while we lived

NSA tapping phonelines
Thanks to Edward Snowden and his recent disclosures we now know this is true.

The Gulf of Tonkin incident
long considered a coverup by the CIA, we now know it was the NSA that dropped the ball and the incident that the united states used to spark the vietnam war was only partially true.

Watergate was put on by Nixon
Although it took a long time, when Deep Throat came forward recently all questions were dispelled about who was involved.

The FBI poisoned alcohol during prohibition

CIA pays for false testimonys
people like nayirah al-aabah, who testified in court against iraqi soldiers, were proven to be paid off by the CIA and even given acting classes.
later they found out that shes the daughter of the kuwaiti ambassador to the U.S

seven senators cited nayirahs testimony in their speeches backing the use of force.
The testimony was widely publicized, and was cited numerous times by United States senators and the American president in their rationale to back Kuwait in the Gulf War. In 1992

cancer in vaccines
The CDC admitted that tens of millions of Americans received a contaminated polio vaccine infected with cancer inducing SV40.

the CIA tried to develop mind control
Whether it was successful or not is another story but project MK Ultra was a real program run by the CIA to develop mind control techniques.

COINTELPRO by the FBI
Their purpose was to discredit and harm American groups mainly associated with civil rights, characterizing them as hate groups that threatened national security

heart attack guns do exist
It’s real and it was disclosed by the CIA in 1975. It fires a bullet made of ice, dipped in shellfish toxin which immediately induces a heart attack.

operation Mockingbird by the CIA
David Bruce uncovered it’s footprints and stated that 50% of international politics in the last century was influenced by it.

us secretly selling weapons to Iran
Now known as the Iran Contra affair, the government was exchanging weapons for hostages

 

[Scaff]

thats how i use to think too
after the link somebody posted to the secret plan that got released decades later, not anymore.
to me now the "facts" that the general public knows, could be what they carefully want you to know.

So you will not accept government facts' but you will accept 'other facts'?

Why not use the sum total of all the information avaliable and use it all?

here is a cool fact,
while i am not a big fan of conspiracy theories either, as i am not big on politics or events like this
there are more than 20 "conspiracy" theories that turned out to be true decades later.

He's a cool fact. You just got a warning.

I don't like repeating myself and the AUP is not optional, start to use capital letters at the start of sentences and for proper names in all your posts from now on or you will receive further warnings which may lead to a ban.

BTW - None of what you have posted fall into the category of "conspiracy theory", I mean take the NSA and eavesdropping. I live less than 30 miles from GCHQ (the UK version of the NSA) and that they work with the US to eavesdrop is not a conspiracy, its common knowledge. All wikileaks did in this case was confirm just what was being listened to and the scale. Only an idiot would have claimed that they were not doing any form of eavesdropping.

Oh and cite your sources for that quite clearly misleadingly worded copy and paste.

This is however wildly off topic.

 

[Pizzle13]

None of what you have posted fall into the category of "conspiracy theory"

you know that is not true
alot of these were considered conspiracy theories before the truth came out
people use to say the kuwaiti witness was a set up the day after it happened,
its the reason why journalists like John MacArthur was digging real deep into it
media controlled by cia, was always a conspiracy theory until operation mockingbird was revealed
when the us got their hostages back, people immediatly said they gave out weapons in exchange
even tho the official story said, they would never give weapons away to iran
it remained a conspiracy theory until revealed
same goes with the fbi poisoning alcohol
or the NSA´s role in the gulf of tonkin incident
and other events on the list, and these aint even all of them

cite your sources for that quite clearly misleadingly worded copy and paste

you can find all that information on the respective wikipedia sites wich also have links and documents to their sources

 

[Scaff]

you know that is not true
alot of these were considered conspiracy theories before the truth came out
people use to say the kuwaiti witness was a set up the day after it happened,
its the reason why journalists like John MacArthur was digging real deep into it
media controlled by cia, was always a conspiracy theory until operation mockingbird was revealed
when the us got their hostages back, people immediatly said they gave out weapons in exchange
even tho the official story said, they would never give weapons away to iran
it remained a conspiracy theory until revealed
same goes with the fbi poisoning alcohol
or the NSA´s role in the gulf of tonkin incident
and other events on the list, and these aint even all of them




you can find all that information on the respective wikipedia sites wich also have links and documents to their sources

And we are done here for a few days.

You seem to be unable to grasp that the AUP applies to all members and the requirement to use capital letters is not optional and you are not exempt from it.

Take two days off to consider this and when you return ensure that all you posts follow the AUP.

 

[PizzIe13]

And we are done here for a few days.

whatever floats your boat mate, ill be fine with your decisions.

 

[Scaff]

whatever floats your boat mate, ill be fine with your decisions.

Do that again and all accounts will be permanently banned - count yourself lucky you are getting this chance.

 

[PizzleI3]

Do that again and all accounts will be permanently banned - count yourself lucky you are getting this chance.

i must say that is very gracious of you my führer
however, i wonder why you think that would make any difference

 

[Dennisch]

And that was your life at GTP. Should have listened.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Wow. This is the first time that I have saw someone commit suicide by mod. I wish you well in your life, PizzIel, because admins are pretty sharp on accounts that have lifetime bans re-registering under a different name and banning them pretty quickly. The Banned User Log thread is proof of that.

By the way, mods, I don't mind this post getting deleted with the out of topic purge that is bound to happen with this thread. Conspiracy theories aside, this whole argument contributes nothing to the topic at hand, in my opinion. It is just someone who is reading a bit too deep into the facts of the crash and connecting dots that shouldn't be connected because they are irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Wow, I don't understand what is so difficult in just go back to topic and using capital letters...

Wow. This is the first time that I have saw someone commit suicide by mod. I wish you well in your life, PizzIel, because admins are pretty sharp on accounts that have lifetime bans re-registering under a different name and banning them pretty quickly. The Banned User Log thread is proof of that.

By the way, mods, I don't mind this post getting deleted with the out of topic purge that is bound to happen with this thread. Conspiracy theories aside, this whole argument contributes nothing to the topic at hand, in my opinion. It is just someone who is reading a bit too deep into the facts of the crash and connecting dots that shouldn't be connected because they are irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Meaning you missed Zuel and others recently...oh my I feel bad for you

Anyways, any more news on this or what, last I heard there was fighting and the recovery effort is being halted by it.

 

[Xilor]

Latest news is that the "Multinational Police" being sent by Dutch and Australian authorities will be allowed to use weapons after all. This could potentially get quite ugly.