Microtransactions Have Arrived in Gran Turismo Sport

So we don't win new cars by completing championship , endurance races or daily/weekly race , but we get one if we connect and play every day who 95% of the time reward you with a Toyota S-FR racing ( i had 26 or 27 right before my save crash loading the main menu just after launching the game... ) And as i just said , Polyphony can't even help you when you ask about your 237hours save who can't even be upload from the cloud , because the game corrupt it every time ... So i'm ruined with almost no cars with only my achievement being saved . And now they offer me a way to come back in the game by the cash shop ?! :nervous: NO :mad: THANKS :grumpy: A.... :lol:
 
Honestly i don't see why this is such a big deal to most people. It's optional as hell, it makes tiny differences to the game.

They want a little profit, so what? The cars aren't exclusive anyways.
 
I added that guy to the ignore list long time ago, best thing to do. Micro-transactions suck in all forum, but loot boxes that doesn't guarantee a car, that's straight up gambling for all we know the embedded coding is probably set to 0% chance of acquiring that car.
Ignoring Someone doesn’t change the fact that you’re wrong and have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. It’s stupid to pretend that the loot boxes are a problem when they don’t even require cash to get them, and you can buy anything within them on your own. How is it gambling when it literally cost you absolutely nothing?

It amazes me how some people, intentionally or otherwise, would rather be blind, foolish, and completely wrong all the time rather than try to use that noggin for actually learning something.
 
I wonder how long they've been planning this? Makes me wonder given there is such a grind fest to this game once you've got through the various licences, missions and track challenges.

But then why limit it to the cheapest cars that can be earned in just a few races around a three corner oval.

I suspect the **** storm that would happen if it was for the 20 million cars would be epic. As would the defence on the grounds that "its an option".

Strange how other games are removing this sort of thing and PD are just putting it in. Are they really that slow?
On the contrary PD seem to be ahead of the game. Keeping the community together with free DLC is the best thing they’ve done. It’s a route now being adopted by the biggest games like Battlefield. For years they had a season pass but now they’re (last I read) making fundamentals like maps free. Post launch income will be generated by cosmetics and unlocks. IE stuff that has no impact on the game or can be unlocked from regular play.

It’s very different from the random nature of loot boxes and game economies that are deliberately altered.
 
Ignoring Someone doesn’t change the fact that you’re wrong and have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. It’s stupid to pretend that the loot boxes are a problem when they don’t even require cash to get them, and you can buy anything within them on your own. How is it gambling when it literally cost you absolutely nothing?

It amazes me how some people, intentionally or otherwise, would rather be blind, foolish, and completely wrong all the time rather than try to use that noggin for actually learning something.
He's the same guy who put me on ignore too after our last argument. He even went as far to post a link to a youtube video in my profile, about how Forza's pit stop sucks... I deleted it afterwards because I knew he was looking for an arguement.

It's pathetic to do such an action when you been proven wrong multiple times already, and it's clear the guy has no idea what he's talking about.

All I'm going to say is, at least T10 didn't lie to its fans and are actually getting rid of the prize crates (which again, costed no real money to purchase except in-game credits).
 
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I think this MT system in particular highlights one of the major problems the Gran Turismo franchise has been suffering for quite a while; the game economy is fubar'ed, making the game nothing more than a glorified grind fest.

Some of the people in this thread have already said they wouldn't mind spending a dollar or two out of their pocket to own a car they'd otherwise have to grind a race combo for hours to get. Let that sink in. People would rather pay real money to buy a car that's readily available in the game, instead of actually playing the game to get it. Where's the fun in using a rubberband to control your car as you wallride an oval for hours while you do other stuff, just to end up still not having enough credits to get the car you want? I hardly ever post in the GT section anymore, but I lurk around quite often and can't help but notice a lot of people are still using that method to grind some credits... which is basically the same thing we used to do in GT3 with the Escudo around the Super Speedway, 15 years ago. And then you end up doing the same race over and over and over because it's the one that pays out the most, to the point of going mad. It sucks the fun aspect out of the game, you end up feeling like it's a chore. I gave up on the franchise exactly for that reason, it just didn't feel fun anymore, I didn't like grinding the same race over and over again to afford a car.

Another thing; The DLC might be free to own, but you still have to pay for the cars in game. That's effectively locking some of the cars away until you've grinded enough credits to afford them. Just imagine how fun that'll be when the paid DLC inevitably comes out.

Just fix the game's economy. Give out better rewards, lower the car prices, and no one will ever need microtransactions.
 
I will never grind or pay for MTX. I won a Jag 20m car and am working through driving every car. If once I have done everything I want to do, had enough of online, completed all single player content etc I still haven't won and can't afford the 2 Ferraris and the Miura then fine, I will have enjoyed the game the whole time and only missed out on driving THREE cars, out of hundreds.

Playing games on your own terms is the only way to do it. For some that involves using purchases, never going online, or collecting every car. As long as you enjoy it, or what's the point?
 
nope but that's what we need, seasonal events and the online login bonus like in GT5 & 6 it would make such a huge difference rather than MTX's

EDIT: apparently they've removed them now can anyone confirm that?

Just checked they're still there but i've had a few people tell me they were removed :confused:
 
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It isn't gambling if there's no real-world cash involved. And, if all of the possible cars that are available in said boxes are also available the old-fashioned way (purchasing with in-game credits), said boxes can conceivably be completely ignored. Just like these MTs.



Recent iterations of Forza allow you to turn off MTs in the same way (clicky).



GT Sport.* PD.*

The thing with that approach is that this wasn't a game sold as a early access test product. It was a full price, AAA title, one its developer said dropped zero features from past iterations, and in fact had more.

Personally, I don't look at it as a test bed, but I do recognize that in the modern era, games are constantly changing. Racing games, especially sim-ish ones, are probably the best candidates for GaaS models.

You might be a mod but that is fundamentally wrong what you said about gambling. You have to literally pay with real credit for those loot boxes in Forza with no knowledge of the probability of acquiring that vehicle, whereas in GT Sport with its crappy Micro-transaction you literally can make a 100% transaction of knowing that car you are getting that is being sold. It's literally a 100% probability of acquiring that vehicle being on the Micro-transaction list whereas Forza's lootboxes is an entirely different story.
 
You might be a mod but that is fundamentally wrong what you said about gambling. You have to literally pay with real credit for those loot boxes in Forza with no knowledge of the probability of acquiring that vehicle, whereas in GT Sport with its crappy Micro-transaction you literally can make a 100% transaction of knowing that car you are getting that is being sold. It's literally a 100% probability of acquiring that vehicle being on the Micro-transaction list whereas Forza's lootboxes is an entirely different story.

Show me where you have to spend real-world money on the lootboxes in Forza. I'll wait.

For legal purposes, if money isn't involved, then it isn't gambling. Even the Belgian Gaming Commission agrees: Star Wars Battlefront 2 wasn't found guilty of the practice, after the devs removed any MTs mere days before release.

With that said, FM7's current crate system does state probabilities. So, there's that, at least until the devs remove the system completely in a few months' time.

Now, if we want to take the more general meaning of gambling into account (wagering X on the chance of receiving Y), then sure, FM7's crates constitute gambling — you have to spend in-game credits to get the contents. But even then, you're guaranteed to receive something, not nothing, which is what I tend to end up with when I visit any casino. That would make GT Sport's daily marathon a form of gambling too: I'm investing something (time) for a chance at a car. But, at least I'll always get a car.

F1 2017 must therefore have gambling too, I guess. You can spend money on an R&D upgrade, and yet there's a chance it could fail. Spending something for potentially nothing? That sounds like a-gamblin'.

Or, it's simply a game mechanic, again, because there's no money involved, and because even if there are MTs in a game, a la GT Sport, they aren't necessarily pay-to-win. It's something even the mainstream media is getting wrong about the GT MTs: I've watched/read at least two bits on how the "best" cars are still only purchasable via credits, but that's wrong: there's nothing "best" about the 20 million cars.
 
nope but that's what we need, seasonal events and the online login bonus like in GT5 & 6 it would make such a huge difference rather than MTX's

EDIT: apparently they've removed them now can anyone confirm that?

Just checked they're still there but i've had a few people tell me they were removed :confused:
Exactly what I was thinking. Adding in seasonal events and login bonuses would make grinding infinitely easier. That why GT6's campaign was a lot easier compared to previous GT's.
 
You might be a mod but that is fundamentally wrong what you said about gambling. You have to literally pay with real credit for those loot boxes in Forza with no knowledge of the probability of acquiring that vehicle, whereas in GT Sport with its crappy Micro-transaction you literally can make a 100% transaction of knowing that car you are getting that is being sold. It's literally a 100% probability of acquiring that vehicle being on the Micro-transaction list whereas Forza's lootboxes is an entirely different story.
Different story being that they cost $0.00. :lol: that’s like comparing a car that costs you $2.00 to use and one that only costs your in game credits that you acquire through playing the game.

It’s clear you’ve never played the game, so why continue making factually incorrect statements over and over again.
 
I like how eran did a big white knighting song and dance about how people wouldn't deliberately look the other way about GT's microtransactions just because of the logo on the box after the treatment Forza 7 got for the (free, won with gameplay) lootboxes.



And then people came out of the woodwork to flood this thread with that literal exact sentiment almost immediately afterwards.

It's literally a 100% probability of acquiring that vehicle being on the Micro-transaction list whereas Forza's lootboxes is an entirely different story.
It is an entirely different story, because Forza 7's loot boxes don't cost actual money.
 
Really, this thread just goes to show that yes, these sorts of arguments cut pretty deep across party lines, as much as people try to say they don't. The fact of the matter is, that a good chunk of people (mostly GT fans) slagged Forza and T10 for adding lootboxes which had no sort of monetary, real world value, and could be earned through simple gameplay. And yet when PD has added in MT's to the last two games they've done...suspicious silence from that same crowd.

GT Sport desperately needs the game economy re-worked, and it needed it done years ago. Fred puts it perfectly: when people are rolling over and accepting MT's as PD has added them, not only does it show that people are willing to bend the knee to clearly anti-consumer practices, but also shows that something is horrifically wrong with the economy you have built.
 
  • Polyphony adds content almost every month post-launch that is either reworked from previous games or completely new for free.
  • Polyphony adds the option to purchase cars in the game with real money for people who don't have much time to play often.
  • Blue Moon Bay + 911 GT3 or X-Bow can net you any car purchasable with real money in an hour or two.
  • Polyphony keeps the economy in the game the same after the update so previous moneymaking methods are still completely valid.
  • No elements of RNG are present in this system, you get what you pay for.
  • Server maintenance and post-launch development and licencing are not free.
  • Any car that is 2 million credits or more is not purchasable so people who spend money can not obtain the "unicorn cars" faster than players who work towards them with in-game credits.
  • There's a button to turn it off if you so desire.
I fail to see how any of this is "greedy" or how us defending PD for this completely justifiable microtransaction system makes us "corporate slaves".

The only reason PD is getting this much negative press is because of the generaly negative reaction to the word "Microtransaction" ever since the likes of EA or Ubisoft pushed them too far. The system can be done right and made consumer friendly in games like Overwatch or even Fortnight. I believe the system that PD implemented is one such example.

But hey, if you're the kind of person who gets your kicks out of visualizing Kaz as a kniving theif sitting on the bags of dollar bills while looking like Mr. Monopoly instead of a real human being, more power to you.
 
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It might also be a good time to remind people that Kaz has been a Peter Molyneux sized liar since arguably GT4, and that this is yet another notch in the belt. How many times does he have to do it before GT fans start smelling the ******** that wafes from him when he speaks?

The only reason PD is getting this much negative press is because of the generaly negative reaction to the word "Microtransaction" ever since the likes of EA or Ubisoft pushed them too far. The system can be done right and made consumer friendly in games like Overwatch or even Fortnight. I believe the system that PD implemented is one such example.

Or, it could be...that he clearly, bald-faced lied.
 
  • Polyphony adds content almost every month post-launch that is either reworked from previous games or completely new for free.
  • Polyphony adds the option to purchase cars in the game with real money for people who don't have much time to play often.
  • Blue Moon Bay + 911 GT3 or X-Bow can net you any car purchasable with real money in an hour or two.
  • Polyphony keeps the economy in the game the same after the update so previous moneymaking methods are still completely valid.
  • No elements of RNG are present in this system, you get what you pay for.
  • Server maintenance and post-launch development and licencing are not free.
  • Any car that is 2 million credits or more is not purchasable so people who spend money can not obtain the "unicorn cars" faster than players who work towards them with in-game credits.
  • There's a button to turn it off if you so desire.
I fail to see how any of this is "greedy" or how us defending PD for this completely justifiable microtransaction system makes us "corporate slaves".

The only reason PD is getting this much negative press is because of the generaly negative reaction to the word "Microtransaction" ever since the likes of EA or Ubisoft pushed them too far. The system can be done right and made consumer friendly in games like Overwatch or even Fortnight. I believe the system that PD implemented is one such example.

But hey, if you're the kind of person who gets your kicks out of visualizing Kaz as a kniving theif sitting on the bags of dollar bills while looking like Mr. Monopoly instead of a real human being, more power to you.
Quote every single syllable:tup:.
But now we complain before understanding what we are complaining about:lol:
 
It might also be a good time to remind people that Kaz has been a Peter Molyneux sized liar since arguably GT4, and that this is yet another notch in the belt. How many times does he have to do it before GT fans start smelling the ******** that wafes from him when he speaks?



Or, it could be...that he clearly, bald-faced lied.
What you are saying? here everyone expected that the future content would be paid as dlc of tracks or car packages, even if the kaz said we would not have had MT.
The game is having free content continuos and the game has to moentizzare in some way or do you think they'll develop it for free 💡?.
I think this economic system is one of the lightest and least invasive that there could be and I do not see how any kind of controversy can be triggered.

PS:I've seen you always complain about GT so I give the right weight to what you write:lol:
 
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Now that we have MT in the game, PD could potentially in the next updates release a bunch of 2 million CR super/hypercars
 
And then you end up doing the same race over and over and over because it's the one that pays out the most, to the point of going mad. It sucks the fun aspect out of the game, you end up feeling like it's a chore.

  • Blue Moon Bay + 911 GT3 or X-Bow can net you any car purchasable with real money in an hour or two.

RG0BS1U.gif
 
What you are saying? here everyone expected that the future content would be paid as dlc of tracks or car packages, even if the kaz said we would not have had MT.
The game is having free content continuos and the game has to moentizzare in some way or do you think they'll develop it for free 💡?.
I think this economic system is one of the lightest and least invasive that there could be and I do not see how any kind of controversy can be triggered.

I've seen you always complain about GT so I give the right weight to what you write:lol:

If there is a need to monetize, then what's wrong with having "normal" DLC car packs now and then, with 7 or 8 cars and priced at $4.99?
 
Really, this thread just goes to show that yes, these sorts of arguments cut pretty deep across party lines, as much as people try to say they don't.

Perhaps, but then again, emotionally-charged choices of words like the following two examples don't help:

It might also be a good time to remind people that Kaz has been a Peter Molyneux sized liar since arguably GT4, and that this is yet another notch in the belt. How many times does he have to do it before GT fans start smelling the ******** that wafes from him when he speaks?

But hey, if you're the kind of person who gets your kicks out of visualizing Kaz as a kniving theif sitting on the bags of dollar bills while looking like Mr. Monopoly instead of a real human being, more power to you.

(With a dose of strawman for good measure.)

Instead of this discussion simply being about GTS and FM7 — which I've taken part in too, mostly because of the worryingly large amount of ignorance on the subject — perhaps it's showing that a general discussion on MTs in general, in the genre, are needed.

The people that decry MTs the moment until they show up in their preferred franchise (at which point they're fine) are just as unhelpful as those suggesting MTs are always, without exception, bad. The latter is black and white, and the former is hypocritical (and, maybe, black and white).

Racing games can be uniquely well-suited to the approach, especially the games with massive car lists. But it's a balancing act as a dev/publisher; make the MTs too expensive and nobody bites (and you get bad press). Make them too cheap and you may get more people choosing the cash option — but you might also get bad press for seeming to push that approach.

If it's pay-to-win, that's problematic. Someone wanting to throw a few extra dollars a dev's way to bypass the typical progression? Eh, no problem to me: it's not like this is a story-based game. But a well-rounded in-game economy makes that less of an issue, which brings us to:

GT Sport desperately needs the game economy re-worked, and it needed it done years ago.

Honestly, it'd be as simple as dropping the 20 million cars down to 1/4 of the price. Those prices are arbitrarily high. Even with the absolute most efficient credit-grinding method, each one of those cars requires around a dozen hours of play time, which is vastly more than, well, 92% of the rest of the car list. That's not "accomplishment", that's "grinding".

Other games sidestep this somewhat by allowing players to at least drive every car in the game, when they want. They may not be able to own them or customize them, but they can at least get the experience. With GT Sport, there is no try-before-you-buy. That and the grinding are two aspects of "Old GT" that exist within "New GT".

  • Polyphony adds the option to purchase cars in the game with real money for people who don't have much time to play often.
  • Polyphony keeps the economy in the game the same after the update so previous moneymaking methods are still completely valid.
  • No elements of RNG are present in this system, you get what you pay for.
  • Server maintenance and post-launch development and licencing are not free.
  • There's a button to turn it off if you so desire.

All of these apply to other racing games with MTs as well. In fact, the fourth bullet point there applies to practically every modern game.
 
Even if the dev team at PD explicitly didn't want MTs, it's the publishers at Sony that need to impress the faceless bean counters that are their shareholders. Sony should also take flak for this decision as well.
Sony is definitely getting some flak for this, and other reasons.
 
If there is a need to monetize, then what's wrong with having "normal" DLC car packs now and then, with 7 or 8 cars and priced at $4.99?
Let me explain better (English is not my language).
Everyone here was expecting to pay, sooner or later, packages of dlc as cars or tracks and were willing to do so, now that the PD have put this type of MT, I'm seeing people outraged and do not understand why:lol:.
I find this situation very funny:D.

I hope I explained myself better:tup:.
 
What you are saying? here everyone expected that the future content would be paid as dlc of tracks or car packages, even if the kaz said we would not have had MT.
The game is having free content continuos and the game has to moentizzare in some way or do you think they'll develop it for free 💡?.
I think this economic system is one of the lightest and least invasive that there could be and I do not see how any kind of controversy can be triggered.

PS:I've seen you always complain about GT so I give the right weight to what you write:lol:

Again, let me reiterate: Kaz lied. He went up to fans and customers, said that there wouldn't be microtransactions. Now we are at this point. If you cannot see why that this entire crux of the argument, AKA what this thread has been about for the ten pages it has been up, is what is being talked about, then I really don't know what to say except that it's absolutely sad.

The fact that I have 'complained' about GT in the past is irrelevant to the discussion being had, and really goes to show that this debate, as it pertains to Forza and GT, is incredibly tribalistic, and more often then not, having one side bash the other, yet staying suspiciously and hypocritically silent when the other does the exact same thing.
 
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