Mon 20:00-21:30 UK time - PC2 - Hosted by @IfAndOr - Please refer to new threadPS4

[AndreasR]

Results from Spa

 

[rj5992]

Don't know if you're still looking for more series ideas or not @Sick Cylinder , or if you've run it before, but I highly recommend the Lotus 72D. The default Loose setup is a joy to drive and isn't a handful at all.

 

[slthree]

@Oldbass47 when I was watching my replay of the race, and you were coming out of your pit stop and behind me, I noticed you flashed your headlights.

2 questions:

1. What did that mean?
2. How did you even do it? I didn't realize we could do that

Does anyone know if tympache is on these forums? I was wondering what happened at the start of the race. I qualified last and started last and he appeared to come off the line but then stopped altogether and didn't move. I didn't know if I was supposed to stop and wait until he restarted.

It was confusing to me because I know that Sick's rule is that we do not pass until after the first turn. But, because the car wasn't moving I wasn't sure what was going on so I wanted to keep up with the back of the pack.

 

[ILIV]

@Oldbass47
Does anyone know if tympache is on these forums? I was wondering what happened at the start of the race. I qualified last and started last and he appeared to come off the line but then stopped altogether and didn't move. I didn't know if I was supposed to stop and wait until he restarted.

It was confusing to me because I know that Sick's rule is that we do not pass until after the first turn. But, because the car wasn't moving I wasn't sure what was going on so I wanted to keep up with the back of the pack.

Hi! I'm tympache here.

So, what happened was that I forgot that we are not supposed to overtake until after the first turn. I've trained myself using AI races and standing starts so much that I had a knee-jerk reaction at the start of the race and sprang forward between two rows of the cars only then to realize a second later that I was not supposed to do that.

So, I slammed on the brakes oblivious to the fact that I needed to depress clutch and I stalled the car. It took some time to restart the engine and start moving again.

Sorry for confusing you!

I guess if you see anyone stalling at the start you're good to overtake. It's a mistake no one should be punished for (except may be the driver that stalled the car, i.e. me )

 

[Napalm_LT]

@Oldbass47
2. How did you even do it? I didn't realize we could do that

You can map headlights button on your wheel or button box (if you have it) and use it when you want.

 

[IfAndOr]

I had a knee-jerk reaction at the start of the race and sprang forward

Yes it is a sort of natural reaction to want to "go" when you see green. It's caught a few people out.

I find disabling the onscreen HUD starting lights and only relying on the track gantry lights helps with this. The further away you are the less visible the lights. It's actually much more realistic. Unfortunately it still does the start countdown beeps though.

 

[rj5992]

Just looked at Andreas' timings and saw that @slthree had a 4 second improvement in time between qualifying and the race. Nice one!

 

[ILIV]

Yes it is a sort of natural reaction to want to "go" when you see green. It's caught a few people out.

I find disabling the onscreen HUD starting lights and only relying on the track gantry lights helps with this. The further away you are the less visible the lights. It's actually much more realistic. Unfortunately it still does the start countdown beeps though.

Funny thing is I have the onscreen HUD starting lights set to off. I guess you can't help it as the sound beeps are just as if not even more powerful conditioning instrument. My gf that haven't had a single race in her life makes impression of those beeps sometimes... just because she has to hear them so often

 

[Sick Cylinder]

Don't know if you're still looking for more series ideas or not @Sick Cylinder , or if you've run it before, but I highly recommend the Lotus 72D. The default Loose setup is a joy to drive and isn't a handful at all.

I'm currently planning for next year and welcome any ideas for series.

I'm planning a series inspired by National and European Formula 5000 circa 1970. Sadly we haven't got any F5000 cars in the game, but the Lotus 72 looks a bit like one so we'll be using that with appropriate liveries. The faster drivers will probably use a slower car (49C) for closer racing.

 

[IfAndOr]

the sound beeps are just as if not even more powerful conditioning instrument

Very true. There's not an option to disable them either. I'm not sure if there's an option available to disable them on your gf though.

 

[slthree]

Hi! I'm tympache here.

So, what happened was that I forgot that we are not supposed to overtake until after the first turn. I've trained myself using AI races and standing starts so much that I had a knee-jerk reaction at the start of the race and sprang forward between two rows of the cars only then to realize a second later that I was not supposed to do that.

So, I slammed on the brakes oblivious to the fact that I needed to depress clutch and I stalled the car. It took some time to restart the engine and start moving again.

Sorry for confusing you!

I guess if you see anyone stalling at the start you're good to overtake. It's a mistake no one should be punished for (except may be the driver that stalled the car, i.e. me )

Ok. I see now.

I didn't realize it was possible to actually stall a car. Is that related to using a clutch? My wheel has paddle shifters and I don't use a clutch. Is that why I've never stalled a car in PC2?

It sure didn't take you long to overtake me. I was destined to finish last but then you went off very late. There was no way I could pass you without that.

I noticed that the place you went off is the exact spot that I had 2 such problems. Maybe I can learn something here because I simply couldn't get the car out of that right turn direction. I couldn't force it back left. What causes the car to over turn to the right like that? It seems to just be pulled off the road by a mysterious force

 

[rj5992]

didn't realize it was possible to actually stall a car. Is that related to using a clutch? My wheel has paddle shifters and I don't use a clutch. Is that why I've never stalled a car in PC2?

It is indeed. There's an auto clutch setting that is enabled when you don't have a clutch assigned. It's quite clever as well, on GT3 cars when the clutch is assigned you need to use it to pull away, but don't need it in between gears... Just like the real thing. Older H pattern cars need to be clutched between gears, although a clutchless upshift is possible on lift off. Stick sequential gearboxes are clutchless upshift (sometimes needing a lift off between gears) but vary on downshift. The Ginetta Junior is clutch less lift off upshift but a clutched downshift, just like in the real car.

If you want to see that in action then you can watch a track guide I did for the old Ginetta series at Sakitto. It's a bad video, but the pedal cam will show you the footwork involved.

 

[IfAndOr]

Is that related to using a clutch?

Pretty much. You can actually use a clutch and the paddles together but you have to disable the auto clutch option to make full use of it - then stalling becomes a problem. And if you've got the auto engine start switched off you then have to switch on the ignition and press the starter. All realistic stuff.

I often switch off the engine and listen to the birds, sheep, cows the wind etcetera. Perhaps I should drive more.

Edit: Ah beaten to it by RJ

What causes the car to over turn to the right like that. It seems to just be pulled off the road by a mysterious force

Were you on a kerb? They can very unforgiving, perhaps unrealistically so, and can spin the driving wheel in contact causing the car to pull one way or the other. Lift off the power if you can to prevent this.

I got caught out a couple of times and spun out - so I didn't follow my own advice!

 

[rj5992]

I noticed that the place you went off is the exact spot that I had 2 such problems. Maybe I can learn something here because I simply couldn't get the car out of that right turn direction. I couldn't force it back left. What causes the car to over turn to the right like that. It seems to just be pulled off the road by a mysterious force

I'm assuming that it was Les Combes where you were struggling? A lot of the GT3's have quite an unbalanced rear on their stock setups, the Aston Martin that I was driving is terrible for doing what you described. I think you're braking too deep into the corner so you're then having to start turning in whilst braking. Problem with that is all of the weight of the car is over the front wheels, with the rear really light. So when the front wheels start to grip and turn, because of the imbalance the rear swings to the left like a pendulum. If it swings too much then it'll just keep rotating and the weight of the car won't centralise in time for you to make the left handed.

So basically in GT3 cars brake hard and straight (at Les Combes use the start of the rumble strip on the left as your braking marker). As the speed drops, gradually reduce the brake pressure to account for the reduced downforce. Turn in with a little bit of throttle applied to settle the rear of the car (to account for the twitchy default setup). Feel the weight in the wheel to judge where's the weight of the car is, you can stay your turn in for the left hander once you feel that the car has balanced out. Turning left whilst the weight is on the left will initially result in nothing, until the weight balances out and then all of a sudden the car will snap with the rear swinging to the right.

You can use that extra rotation of the rear to actually help you through the corner quicker, but it's a very fine line between success and failure. I managed it a couple of times in the race last night, where it stopped rotating just at the turn in point for the next corner, but then also messed up on one lap and had to lift off to avoid spearing off to the right.

I often switch off the engine and listen to the birds, sheep, cows the wind etcetera. Perhaps I should drive more.

I love to do that in an offline race where you can hear the cars going around the circuit. On a track like Spa you realise how good the sound design is. If you stop at the bus stop, you can hear them accelerating away until they go up Raidillon, then the trees block the sound until they get to Pouhon, where there's a clear path for the sound to hit you. Amazing stuff and very realistic.

 

[slthree]

Just looked at Andreas' timings and saw that @slthree had a 4 second improvement in time between qualifying and the race. Nice one!

Thank you for noticing that and calling it out. I didn't notice it myself. I spend a lot of time feeling that, being so far below the level of racers in this group, I shouldn't even try. I'll take any progress I can get

It is indeed. There's an auto clutch setting that is enabled when you don't have a clutch assigned. It's quite clever as well, on GT3 cars when the clutch is assigned you need to use it to pull away, but don't need it in between gears... Just like the real thing. Older H pattern cars need to be clutched between gears, although a clutchless upshift is possible on lift off. Stick sequential gearboxes are clutchless upshift (sometimes needing a lift off between gears) but vary on downshift. The Ginetta Junior is clutch less lift off upshift but a clutched downshift, just like in the real car.

If you want to see that in action then you can watch a track guide I did for the old Ginetta series at Sakitto. It's a bad video, but the pedal cam will show you the footwork involved.

Well, that certainly confirms what I've always thought, that a clutch is way too complicated for me. That's a lot of footwork and I'm sure my mind can't process it all. I used to have a stick shift car and I loved it, but I wasn't racing in it. Lol

I often switch off the engine and listen to the birds, sheep, cows the wind etcetera.

Were you on a kerb? They can very unforgiving, perhaps unrealistically so, and can spin the driving wheel in contact causing the car to pull one way or the other. Lift off the power if you can to prevent this.

I didn't know this was possible and I didn't know the game had sounds from birds and sheep and cows. I want to try this. Is it possible to turn an engine off if you DON'T have manual start enabled?

And, I believe I was coming off of a curb. I'll watch the replay again when I get home.

I'm assuming that it was Les Combes where you were struggling? A lot of the GT3's have quite an unbalanced rear on their stock setups, the Aston Martin that I was driving is terrible for doing what you described. I think you're braking too deep into the corner so you're then having to start turning in whilst braking. Problem with that is all of the weight of the car is over the front wheels, with the rear really light. So when the front wheels start to grip and turn, because of the imbalance the rear swings to the left like a pendulum. If it swings too much then it'll just keep rotating and the weight of the car won't centralise in time for you to make the left handed.

So basically in GT3 cars brake hard and straight (at Les Combes use the start of the rumble strip on the left as your braking marker). As the speed drops, gradually reduce the brake pressure to account for the reduced downforce. Turn in with a little bit of throttle applied to settle the rear of the car (to account for the twitchy default setup). Feel the weight in the wheel to judge where's the weight of the car is, you can stay your turn in for the left hander once you feel that the car has balanced out. Turning left whilst the weight is on the left will initially result in nothing, until the weight balances out and then all of a sudden the car will snap with the rear swinging to the right.

You can use that extra rotation of the rear to actually help you through the corner quicker, but it's a very fine line between success and failure. I managed it a couple of times in the race last night, where it stopped rotating just at the turn in point for the next corner, but then also messed up on one lap and had to lift off to avoid spearing off to the right.

This is why I appreciate this group so much. Thank you again RJ. This is extremely helpful. I'm learning a lot.

Of course, I don't know the names of the sections of track so I'll have to do a little research to see if that's the same place I went right like a magnet was pulling me off the track.

 

[IfAndOr]

Is it possible to turn an engine off if you DON'T have manual start enabled?

Unless you blow your engine up, no.


If you haven't already got one get yourself a cheap usb keyboard, it'll increase your button mapping considerably making many more options available on the fly. Seat position, FFB adjustment, lights, engine etcetera. Actually a wireless keypad is all you really need for PC2 but a keyboard can also be used for typing.

Spoiler: Research remover

 

[John Wells]

At Les Combes, theirs also the yellow, black strips, that run on the inside, most curbs are high as well. Which can upset the car, when you go over them.

 

[slthree]

Wow, Paul! I can't thank you enough

"Research Remover". That was clever, and very much appreciated

And, yes, Les Combes is where I lost it twice and where @ILIV lost it at the end, to facilitate my overtake

 

[rj5992]

Actually a wireless keypad is all you really need for PC2 but a keyboard can also be used for typing.

I got a cheap keypad for mine. Wrapped it in carbon wrap and got some stickers off eBay to make it a bit more proper.

 

[ILIV]

Wow, Paul! I can't thank you enough

"Research Remover". That was clever, and very much appreciated

And, yes, Les Combes is where I lost it twice and where @ILIV lost it at the end, to facilitate my overtake

I normally do not spin there but, hey, happy to help! Considering I confused you at the start and effectively slowed you down we're even

For me the two most tricky sections are the Raidillon Eau Rouge (3, 4, 5) and Pouhon (12).

Turn 18 is also tricky. I'm not sure if I'm doing it right but I figured the only way to pass turn 18 fast is to turn the wheel far left early on, keep the gas pedal floored and just let the car power slide into it.

I really need to watch track tutorials at some point but for now I'm enjoying figuring it out on my own and seeing how I improve by just trial and error.

 

[joedakiss]

Sadly we haven't got any F5000 cars in the game

Agree, they would be a great addition to PCR (cc @IanBell ). I remember watching this in awe a few years back – thankfully from a livestream on my TV rather than the bitter cold trackside!

I noticed that the place you went off is the exact spot that I had 2 such problems. Maybe I can learn something here because I simply couldn't get the car out of that right turn direction. I couldn't force it back left. What causes the car to over turn to the right like that? It seems to just be pulled off the road by a mysterious force

I'm assuming that it was Les Combes where you were struggling?

There's also a very subtle crest mid-corner that will throw your balance out mid-corner if you brake too late and don't hit the first apex – it kept catching me in practice until I revised my braking point.

You can use that extra rotation of the rear to actually help you through the corner quicker, but it's a very fine line between success and failure. I managed it a couple of times in the race last night, where it stopped rotating just at the turn in point for the next corner, but then also messed up on one lap and had to lift off to avoid spearing off to the right.

Totally agree, I had a big moment (see flailing arms below) on the last lap on Monday pushing too hard when chasing @IfAndOr but just managed to save it.



Really looking forward to tonight's race, the ground effect of the Group C cars is a delight at Spa

 

[IfAndOr]

see flailing arms below)

You were "going for it". It was indeed a bit twitchy!

My NSX didn't seem to have enough straight line speed, I got caught easily. It didn't help that it was understeering in the corners either. I must try the loose setup again.

 

[slthree]

Really looking forward to tonight's race, the ground effect of the Group C cars is a delight at Spa

Here's another example of the disparity between us.

I tried last night a few practice laps and I was sliding all over the place

It seemed like every time I tried to accelerate out of turns, my car spun wildly.

 

[joedakiss]

Here's another example of the disparity between us.

I tried last night a few practice laps and I was sliding all over the place

It seemed like every time I tried to accelerate out of turns, my car spun wildly.

Don't be disheartened, that could be a variety of things – tyres not warmed up, acclimatisation time to car type, car's reaction to kerbs etc. The Group C cars are among some of the most powerful cars in the game so take some getting used to – they're great a high speeds but really punish an over-eager right foot! Also worth pointing out that after a couple of spins, your tyres will probably either have picked up dirt from going off or will be overheated (even if HUD doesn't indicate it) – possibly both – so it's always worth taking it easy for a few corners afterwards otherwise it's easy to become a one-man circus – I speak from experiences that are more recent than I'd like them to be!

Beyond that I only have one piece of advice that I'm sure everyone in this room would agree with – practice, practice, practice. As @rj5992 pointed out, you've already improved massively and it's good to have you joining us more regularly nowadays.

 

[IfAndOr]

It seemed like every time I tried to accelerate out of turns, my car spun wildly.

I'll add again, as per that session we had, don't drop down too many gears. Leave it in 3rd, it'll still pull away from the corners very quickly without losing traction. Only drop down to a lower gear when you're more confident with your control.

Now watch me spin out in the race!

 

[slthree]

Good advice, both of you.

And, it makes sense because most of my spinning out was in the first two laps

I made the mistake of getting frustrated and I kept restarting session. That means every time I started, my tires were cold.

I'm home early today and I'm going to do some practice and let the first two laps be slower than I normally go just to get the tires warmed up. I definitely pushed it too hard too soon

 

[Napalm_LT]

I will skip race at Daytona due to business trip.
Good luck and have fun.

 

[ShaunyB]

I missed Spa due to a business trip. Annoying, as I quite like the track and I’ve had some solid results there over the past few months in the various championships we’ve had...including a 2nd!

 

[slthree]

Does anyone know what tires will be used Monday?

I'm practicing now and would like it to be realistic

 

[slthree]

I missed Spa due to a business trip. Annoying, as I quite like the track and I’ve had some solid results there over the past few months in the various championships we’ve had...including a 2nd!

I feel for you. There are so few tracks that I feel really comfortable at, it hurts to miss a race there.