Motorcycles in GT5?

[Jarnac]

Yes, I do want motorbikes in GT5.

 

[Stash!]

People are still waiting for bikes in tdu2 I for one think it wouldnt be implemented well.

But saying that PD is a much better and experienced developer than eden if anyone could do it PD could.

Well i think TDU2 has more chance of getting motorbikes because it isn't as serious as GT5 and its arcade like cruising/race game so it's easy to just throw some motorbikes in that game and not spoil it.

So when there is a serious/potential games, you want to make sure you create it right and not spoil it. Adding motorbikes in GT5 might be a bit silly and going to far, losing its originality.

 

[Stash!]

Yes, I do want motorbikes in GT5.

Finally, I've been looking for that video! This is the first time i've seen GT HD with the motorbikes in with cars, looks cool but silly/arcadey at the same time.

 

[Tired Tyres]

No bikes ever. PD has finite resources. Every second spent doing anything is a second that cannot be used for anything else.

Upgrading standard cars to Premium or adding tracks from previous games is where the priority should be.

Perhaps they could contract TT out to another developer? Yes I know PD don't outsource, but there's always a first time for anything.

 

[1241Penguin]

There's always going to be two sides on this. One side that wants bikes, and one that doesn't. If PD does add bikes, then people are going to complain that they don't spend enough time adding new cars into the game.

Most GT players are car enthusiasts. They can tell you the difference between a GT-R and a GT-R SpecV, but not the difference between a Ducati 1098, 1098S, and 1098R. PD will always try to answer to the bigger audience, so, from a marketing view, adding bikes will just be a waste of time and money for themselves and GTers.

So no I don't want motorcycles in GT5. That should be for Tourist Trophy 2.

 

[1241Penguin]

I'd love to do some sort of poll for GT5 players to answer. I want to see how much of them are motorcycle enthusiasts. As I've said in the other thread, most GT5 players play GT5 because it's a car game.

 

[uMadson?]

Of course not.

That's what the Tourist Trophy series is for.

 

[250 GTO]

[...] don't you think it's a bit drastic to just abandon a game overall just because they added something? I didn't abandon GT after they added B-Spec mode, and I think that B-spec is a complete waste of memory! But I didn't leave GT just because they added something I thought was outright dumb, mainly because it isn't something you have to do in the game, and I think that is what bikes would be like too, it would be something PD doesn't force onto you.

No I don't think it's drastic, and I'll tell you why. There are two reasons why I don't wanna see bikes in neither GT5 or any future GT-game. The minor reason is that I don't like bikes, and if PD did add them that would mean there was a part of the game that I had to play (I like to complete games when I play them), even though I didn't want to. Probably to get various trophies, rewards etc. But like I said, that is a minor objection.

The real reason why I don't want bikes anywhere near GT is because, as it is now, PD have "spread" themselves to thin already. Wanting to incorporated more and more new things/features (great features aswell as useless) they tend to slack (they themselves probably wouldn't say it like that, but thats my oppinion) on the corefeatures that made GT great (once). I'm not gonna go into detail about all the things that is wrong/missing/poorly done in Gran Turismo 5, since that is not the theme of this thread. But to be honest, the more I play the game, and I have played it extensively since launch, the more flaws I find. This is a game that had the potentiel to be the best racing game ever, but it is riddles with flaws and bad decessions. How this game ever got review scores it did, I will never understand.

But to sum up, I don't want bikes because that will be yet another feature that will take focus away from creating the best car game.

Cheers

 

[MrMVP]

I say wait on motorbikes till gt6.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Aint just the bikes we're missing ..

For crying out, why on earth did PD take that out? That looked fun with motorcycles racing with cars. Oh well. Better luck next time.

 

[Griffith500]

I think Polyphony simply doesn't have the resources to pour into creating bikes for the game. Yes, Tourist Trophy reused several assets from GT4, but I'm pretty sure the physics engine needed a bit of recalibrating to take into account the bike lean, braking and other handling characteristics exclusive to bikes. And even then, it wasn't perfect (I've never ridden a bike myself, but I've read reviews of the game from actual bikers that attest to the fact). Then there's the issue of actually modeling the bikes.

You could argue that you can reuse models from Tourist Trophy itself, but I doubt Polyphony would like to rehash PS2 content after the backlash regarding the Standard cars in GT5.

Hence, I don't think it makes sense for Polyphony to go out of its own way, what with the need to tend to GT5 with updates and DLC as well as the development of GT6, just to add what, 5, maybe 10 bikes to the game? And it's hard to make a business case for a DLC that would essentially only be bought by bike guys who already have the game (those who don't have the game would probably find it taking too much effort, especially as the majority of content in the game is about things they might not have an interest in).

Thus, for me, it makes more sense to create Tourist Trophy 2, published by Polyphony but developed by another company, preferably one that has had experience creating motorbike sims. They could have access to GT5 assets, including the physics engine and tracks. It's a win-win: Polyphony can continue to focus on cars, and as long as they continuously vet the development of the game to make sure that it measures up to their high expectations, it would be a cracking game.

Firstly Polyphony Digital are not a publishing house; they are developers. Having them publish a game when they've never done it before is probably not a good idea. Secondly, if a Tourist Trophy sequel were to be made by anyone but PD, it won't be called TT. There's no way they'd relinquish control of their reputation like that. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad rep, it's still theirs.

And when I say "bike DLC", I mean TT2 as an expansion, or better, expandalone, so you don't need GT5 to play it, but if you do, it works with it. Pricing is an issue, though. Do you get GT5 with the TT2 expandalone, or must you "unlock" that separately? Do you get TT2 with every new purchase of GT5? Hard to say - I think the "unlock" method is the best of those, but still far from ideal.
Basically, I, too, think TT2 as an entirely separate game is the most sensible, just to make sure Sony doesn't come up with some silly pricing ideas, and to avoid complication in general. Nobody wants just 10-20 bikes.

No I don't think it's drastic, and I'll tell you why. There are two reasons why I don't wanna see bikes in neither GT5 or any future GT-game. The minor reason is that I don't like bikes, and if PD did add them that would mean there was a part of the game that I had to play (I like to complete games when I play them), even though I didn't want to. Probably to get various trophies, rewards etc. But like I said, that is a minor objection.

The real reason why I don't want bikes anywhere near GT is because, as it is now, PD have "spread" themselves to thin already. Wanting to incorporated more and more new things/features (great features aswell as useless) they tend to slack (they themselves probably wouldn't say it like that, but thats my oppinion) on the corefeatures that made GT great (once). I'm not gonna go into detail about all the things that is wrong/missing/poorly done in Gran Turismo 5, since that is not the theme of this thread. But to be honest, the more I play the game, and I have played it extensively since launch, the more flaws I find. This is a game that had the potentiel to be the best racing game ever, but it is riddles with flaws and bad decessions. How this game ever got review scores it did, I will never understand.

But to sum up, I don't want bikes because that will be yet another feature that will take focus away from creating the best car game.

Cheers

Saying you don't want bikes in GT because you like to (i.e. you don't have to) complete games isn't "minor", it's frankly idiotic (sorry). Why not redefine "complete" for your own purposes and ignore the bikes? It doesn't make any difference, unless you really want platinum. In that sense, maybe there could be a separate "achievements" list for bikes with its own platinum trophy (unless that contravenes Sony's protocols), and you really wouldn't have to "worry". If it's DLC for GT5, then there won't be any trophies added, so it's moot. Actually, it's moot anyway, there are so many games out there; if you don't want to do the work on one particular aspect of a game, why should you get the "reward"?


As for this somewhat general idea that PD are not capable of working on two games at once, I think you're all probably forgetting that that's what they've been doing since at least 2003-ish, so "focus" hasn't been there since before GT4 released. They're quite a bit bigger now than they were then, too, so that's good.

Overall, I'm impressed with the selfishness in here. Allow me to spite you all by saying I hope PD never make a GT (or TT) game again and focus on something entirely different (you know, because TT is really just the same thing as GT)

 

[analog]

So the main objection by many seems to be that creating bikes takes time away from GT-development, so it isn't necessarily an objection to bikes being included in GT5 (since it could be easily implemented in a way you won't have to see or use bikes) but basically an objection to Tourist Trophy 2 altogether.

That's a bit rich don't you think? What if I said GT6 takes time away from TT2?
Okay, GT-games are the bread and butter of PD but a lot here will enjoy waiting for GT6 whilst they play TT2 (and GT5, or both simultaneously if they were incorporated).
For all we know, they're already building those bikes and developing a sequel as we speak anyway, which I hope to be true.

Overall, I'm impressed with the selfishness in here. Allow me to spite you all by saying I hope PD never make a GT (or TT) game again and focus on something entirely different (you know, because TT is really just the same thing as GT)

Yeah, what if he sees the light and starts regretting promoting machinery which pollutes and makes a windmill/solar energy sim whereby you have to tune those windmills and place those solar panels in a way to get the most electricity out of them, wouldn't you rather have just 2 wheels less instead?

 

[mjm23race]

I'd love to do some sort of poll for GT5 players to answer. I want to see how much of them are motorcycle enthusiasts. As I've said in the other thread, most GT5 players play GT5 because it's a car game.

I play GT5 because it is the best car game available. I am sure most everyone else is of the same mindset. But if it was the best car game available and the best bike game available all in one title then people would be playing it for one or the other or both. GT can still be the best car game available even if bikes are included. Cars and bikes don't have to and shouldn't interact with each other. Could be a separate game within a game if you will. Really shouldn't effect the car purists, that part of the game shouldn't change!

 

[Tired Tyres]

Overall, I'm impressed with the selfishness in here. Allow me to spite you all by saying I hope PD never make a GT (or TT) game again and focus on something entirely different (you know, because TT is really just the same thing as GT)

Who is actually being selfish then? The majority who don't want bikes or the minority who do?

PD to make speedboat sim for the win!!

 

[Tired Tyres]

Deleted Double Post.

 

[Griffith500]

Oh believe me, I was aware of the "irony". I think it illustrates rather well that nobody can say what PD should do with their time and their money.

"Majority" or "minority" (perceived or absolute) doesn't come into it, otherwise we'd just have NFS; that's pretty "majority" nowadays, isn't it?

EDIT: I'd love a speedboat sim (wasn't there one on the original Playstation?), and analog's game has already been made... sort of.

 

[Tired Tyres]

How did I manage to double post there? All I did was edit the post.

I'd prefer PD to outsource TT to another developer but keep overall control over it. Not really their style I know but one solution.

 

[STORSKARV]

Give us a new TT game

But some mixed online GT5 / TT2 racing can PD include

 

[Griffith500]

How did I manage to double post there? All I did was edit the post.

I'd prefer PD to outsource TT to another developer but keep overall control over it. Not really their style I know but one solution.

They changed something.

Anyway, I don't really see what my developer preference has to do with anything, all it would be is some sort of emotional bolster; I'd be "safe in the knowledge" that "double" the effort is being put on two of my favourite games. But bringing in an unknown quantity is always tricky. I personally don't care what they do, as long as they do it. Outsourced or not, TT2 could still be a great game and GT6 could still be great (or terrible) in spite of either decision.

I'm sure PD learned a lot from making GT4, GTPSP, TT and GT5 overlapping with each other (and GT2 and Omega Boost, and GT and MTGP etc.). All we can do is hope they can make those lessons count, and there's no point getting angsty over some of PD's time not being spent on GT proper when that's been the case practically from the beginning.

 

[PletdeKoe]

Do you want motorbikes in GT5?

NO.

 

[Tired Tyres]

They changed something.

Anyway, I don't really see what my developer preference has to do with anything, all it would be is some sort of emotional bolster; I'd be "safe in the knowledge" that "double" the effort is being put on two of my favourite games. But bringing in an unknown quantity is always tricky. I personally don't care what they do, as long as they do it. Outsourced or not, TT2 could still be a great game and GT6 could still be great (or terrible) in spite of either decision.

I'm sure PD learned a lot from making GT4, GTPSP, TT and GT5 overlapping with each other (and GT2 and Omega Boost, and GT and MTGP etc.). All we can do is hope they can make those lessons count, and there's no point getting angsty over some of PD's time not being spent on GT proper when that's been the case practically from the beginning.

Isn't that part of the issue though? GT2 to GT3 to GT4 all good games then they start messing about with TT and GT PSP and all of a sudden GT5 gets released in an unfinished state. Diversification makes everything weaker and then no one is happy.

 

[Griffith500]

Isn't that part of the issue though? GT2 to GT3 to GT4 all good games then they start messing about with TT and GT PSP and all of a sudden GT5 gets released in an unfinished state. Diversification makes everything weaker and then no one is happy.

There's only really GT3 (although I suspect the development for GT2 and GT3 overlapped somewhat) that didn't have anything else to disturb it, so I doubt that's it at all. The real killer, in my opinion, was just the level of complexity. It's clear GT5 is nothing like PD hoped it would be.

Diversification is fine so long as you have enough people and expertise to support it. GT is as much a danger to itself as any "competing" game from PD would be on that front, anyway; Kaz wants to include everyone, remember.

Besides, GT2, GT3, and GT4 were all disappointing in their own ways, and GT5 is still a good game in its own right.

 

[abigor]

I really, really, REALLY can't see why bikes mixed with cars in Gran Turismo could be bad.

That's the way the normal tourist days work in the Nordschleife. Cars, bikes, buses, everyone can have fun together.

With lobby restrictions you can make your events restricted to cars only or bikes only...

Having bikes in GT would be a plus, a BIG one. Because no other game, had the simulation (almost) focus containing the 2 types of vehicles together. TDU or PGR4 are more arcadish. That would bring more bikers to Gran Turismo world and our audience/community will be even bigger and stronger.

I can just imagine some MAD drag racing or Wangan style racing on SSR7 with bikes and cars mixed.

Cars trying to beat bike times on the Nordschleife or other track.

That's EPIC.

+1 👍

 

[1241Penguin]

......Could be a separate game within a game if you will.......

Then why not keep it a separate game all together?

Again from a marketing view, if PD has the ability to make two games, then they're going to make two games. If they sold GT5 with cars and bikes, then they're halving their profits. If PD sold GT5 with cars and a supposed TT2 with bikes, then PD can be earning money from two areas. In the past, making the original TT wasn't a hard job for PD. They used GT4 for the "foundation" of the game. They removed the dirt tracks, added the bikes in, and then tweaked the game a little bit here and there.

Though I'm not a bike enthusiast, I would definitely try out Tourist Trophy 2 principally because it's made by PD.

 

[mjm23race]

I could care less if they added bikes to a new or existing GT game or made a standalone bike game, I would support it either way. I think it would be monumental to have the best car game and the best bike game all housed in one package.

I don't know about cutting their profits in half if they put it all in one game. Gotta figure they are going to steal sales from people that might have otherwise bought Forza or NFS or some other racing sim. I think if it's all in one tight package they are going to get a lot more exposure and a broader share of the market.

 

[another_jakhole]

^^^ restrictions!! People who say bikes will ruin online are completely over-looking restrictions. It can only improve the online experience to have the variety. And it's not like you'll be thrown off the bike if a car crashes into you. Spin-outs should be possible.

There's only really GT3 (although I suspect the development for GT2 and GT3 overlapped somewhat) that didn't have anything else to disturb it, so I doubt that's it at all. The real killer, in my opinion, was just the level of complexity. It's clear GT5 is nothing like PD hoped it would be.

Diversification is fine so long as you have enough people and expertise to support it. GT is as much a danger to itself as any "competing" game from PD would be on that front, anyway; Kaz wants to include everyone, remember.

Besides, GT2, GT3, and GT4 were all disappointing in their own ways, and GT5 is still a good game in its own right.

GT3 was being made a year before GT2 released. Sounds off, but it's true.
Found it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_i9qLMWqx_U#t=217s


This statement is really interesting; some of the things I had no idea about until a week ago. Same video Part2. Watch all the parts if you're interested enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_i9qLMWqx_U#t=153s



WELL said, peterjford 👍 \/\/\/ Also, TT used the GT4 physics engine if I'm not mistaken. There's no reason to build another for the bikes. They did, however, HAVE to do it for rain, snow, gravel, and tarmac.

 

[peterjford]

I am having a hard time understanding this Cars vs. Bikes mentality and the arguements here. I am a motorsports fan. I am a gearhead. I don't care how many wheels it has (or if it has wheels at all), if it has a motor, I am interested in it. Those of you saying NO to bikes are just like those that don't like DLC. No one is forcing you to buy it, race it, etc. The real loser here is YOU. Why are you limiting yourself to only 4 wheels, are you afraid you might like bikes? Don't worry, your Red Bull X2011 won't get jealous. Are you like this with everything in your life? Do you only eat corn flakes for breakfast? Do you only drink Pepsi, have burritos for lunch, macaroni and cheese with canned tuna for dinner? Do you only date blondes between 5'3 1/2 and 5'5 1/2 with 34DD breasts weighing 120lbs and have an IQ between 97 and 102? (For the ladies, guys with at least 3 tattoos and no back hair?) Variety is the spice of life, expand your horizons, experience more, live it up.

What is the real problem with bikes and cars being together? Will the magnetic poles suddenly reverse? Dogs and cats living together? A black man could become president of the United States?

I would prefer TT2, but since everyone would have a temper tantrum if GT6 takes one day longer than the already unbearable wait we will have to endure, I would settle of some bikes (10-20) as DLC.

 

[1241Penguin]

To those who want motorcycles:

I personally don't mind it. But if it means delaying GT6 and slowing the addition of cars then I'd rather PD didn't focus on motorcycles at all. The GT series revolves around cars, and that's what everyone bought it for. The majority of people didn't buy GT5 hoping that motorcycles would be added sometime in the future.

You guys can't just think of the result. You guys have to think about how motorcycles are going to be included, and what will be affected.

 

[another_jakhole]

You're right about GT being made specifically for cars, BUT GT has, in fact, progressed to include different motorsports.

 

[1241Penguin]

You're right about GT being made specifically for cars, BUT GT has, in fact, progressed to include different motorsports.

You mean like the karts? Again, I don't mind it personally. But I'm sure that the majority of GT5 players couldn't care less if PD suddenly said "Nope. We're not going to add anything kart related anymore. Everything else will be car related."

Not to mention that most people (most noticeably on GTPlanet) are asking for new cars rather than motorcycles. Obviously PD would answer to the bigger crowd.