MT vs AT - how much faster?
- Thread starter MSkovmose
- 120 comments
- 23,539 views
- 1,653
- UK
Manual all the way for me, any racing game be it cars or bikes has always been MT. Also I use X for accel,Square for brake and triggers for up and down gears, I sometimes have numbness issues with some of my fingers so triggers for accel and brake doesnt work for me. 👍
- 4,335
- United States
- rising_glass1
I am the same way, if I exert too much energy pressing the buttons and doing repetitive motion, my hands/thumbs get numb or sometimes get a cramp and then I have to take calcium supplements.
- 1,653
- UK
@Chris30 I have,what I believe to be Cubital Tunnel Syndrome. This is when the Ulnar nerve,which runs under the elbow from the side of your neck and ends in your fingers, becomes inflammed. Keeping my arms bent makes it hurt, if I sleep with my arms bent it wakes me up, I wear compression sleeves on each arm when I go to work which helps. You get the picture,if I was a dog i`d probably be put down. 
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- 4,335
- United States
- rising_glass1
That's bad, I hope you're doing okay. I know that's gotta be a scary feeling. Hope you recover well.@Chris30 I have,what I believe to be Cubital Tunnel Syndrome. This is when the Ulnar nerve,which runs under the elbow from the side of your neck and ends in your fingers, becomes inflammed. Keeping my arms bent makes it hurt, if I sleep with my arms bent it wakes me up, I wear compression sleeves on each arm when I got to work which helps. You get the picture,if I was a dog i`d probably be put down.
- 1,653
- UK
- 4,335
- United States
- rising_glass1
I've never heard of that type of syndrome, I'll have to do more research about it later. Take good care of yourself and don't overdo it on the Playstation like I'm doing.Cheers mate.It comes and goes, if i whack my elbows at work or whatever it sets it off.
- 1,653
- UK
Arms not constantly bent is fine,its when I do a longish gaming session and forget to change position I suffer.Normal day to day stuff is fine but I know my limits.It is what it is,there are people with worse off conditions than mine so im pretty lucky in the grand scheme of things. 👍
- 4,335
- United States
- rising_glass1
Yeah, my thumbs ache when I press the buttons so many times plus holding that controller in long periods makes it hard for me to stand the pain so I had to curb my time on the Playstation a month ago. I take Excederin to help with the pain to. See the thing with MT is you have to be quick at pressing the gear shift buttons, it is not a simple process and takes lots of time to learn. Yeah, we have to be grateful and lucky that we are not in other people's shoes. Some have had way worse injuries than us.
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- 234
- New York City
- challah_rajni
Since GT6, my controller setup had been
- Dpad steering,
- square for brake,
- right trigger for throttle,
- left shoulder for downshifts
- triangle for upshifts.
The way I held the controller and did throttle inputs made me feel that I'd need an extra hand to reach the corresponding shoulder button for upshifts.
A wrist injury from my wheel setup (of all things) made me switch back to controller. My Dpads turning into mush and my wrist acting up again made me switch to analog steering.
Time trials and the need for trail braking made me switch to using the left trigger.
The best setup for long sessions with the least pain for me is now
- left analog stick for steering
- triggers for brakes and throttle
- square and triangle for downshifts and upshifts
I, my nostalgia and tender wrist are all honestly grateful that GT7s pad config support is great. I wish all the PC sims would copy PD's homework here.
- 234
- New York City
- challah_rajni
Funny as it is, you're absolutely right! It took a wrist injury to get me away from the dpad steering - that's how much I loved driving with it.So it needed an injury to finally get you from weird to normal button settings?
Just kidding. Great that the settings are so customizable to fit for nearly everyone.
That love went all the way back to the Sega Saturn / PS1 era.
To go kinda back to topic, I switched to MT in Gran Turismo 3. Before that, I was a staunch AT driver and afraid of the complexity of managing more than 4 gears (Sega racing games). The final S License in GT3 showed me that I could run faster and smoother laps by using higher gears to eliminate wheelspin.
There was the extra complexity, yes, but it was totally worth it gaining more control over the car. Golding that license and then going back to beat the demo driver gave me the training time I needed to fully transition to MT.
- 1,653
- UK
Showing my age now, the first game I used MT was Revs by Geoff Crammond on my Commodore C64.That was back in the mid 80`s.There plenty youtube vids showing the gameplay,looks pretty basic now but back in the day it was a groundbreaking racing game,considering all we had was at that time was Outrun, the dire Pole Position and a load of other poor driving games.
You had 6 tracks,these were loaded via a cassette tape,2 tracks at a time so if you wanted to change the tracks you had to reload the game again.If you`ve never played games loaded by cassette you will never know the pain of seeing the message`syntax error`halfway through loading a game and having to rewind and start again.
You had 6 tracks,these were loaded via a cassette tape,2 tracks at a time so if you wanted to change the tracks you had to reload the game again.If you`ve never played games loaded by cassette you will never know the pain of seeing the message`syntax error`halfway through loading a game and having to rewind and start again.
- 1,213
- Australia
That syntax error sounds almost like a similsr experience to save file corruption in modern times 😂. Ive had corrupted saves from developers not fixing thier game by launch and its definetly a mood killerShowing my age now, the first game I used MT was Revs by Geoff Crammond on my Commodore C64.That was back in the mid 80`s.There plenty youtube vids showing the gameplay,looks pretty basic now but back in the day it was a groundbreaking racing game,considering all we had was at that time was Outrun, the dire Pole Position and a load of other poor driving games.
You had 6 tracks,these were loaded via a cassette tape,2 tracks at a time so if you wanted to change the tracks you had to reload the game again.If you`ve never played games loaded by cassette you will never know the pain of seeing the message`syntax error`halfway through loading a game and having to rewind and start again.
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- 1,653
- UK
Some of the games on cassette were huge, for the time,waiting for the game to load and after waiting 5 mins or more getting this message made you want to launch the machine.Even more annoying when loading next levels and having to start again due to an error was torture.
Thing us we didnt know any better then, the Master System was new and games for that were quite pricey at the time,around £20.00 - £25.00,whereas C64 games were around £10.00 with budget releases around £2 or £3.00.A no brainer if you didnt have massive disposable income.
Sorry for the off topic ramble,nice to reminisce sometimes. 🫱
- 4,335
- United States
- rising_glass1
If there are any secret tips you guys would like to share to make MT more pleasant and easier to get the hang of, let me know. It's taking me awhile to learn the trail braking too, I started doing this 2 months ago. Plus it gets tricky and confusing while shifting the gears up and down with the numbers(1-6). Because choosing the wrong number for the gear will cause the car to rev up and lose speed on the road.
- 1,685
- Willow Springs
- schlafhund
Like others have also said in the past years when questions of this kind comes up, keep at it and try to be patient. In the beginning it’ll be a bit odd and new, mistakes will be made, but give it some time and it will become second nature to you. That’s it really, there’s no secret about it.
What’s your configuration? Sometimes I hear people are using really odd ones (D-pad for example) that are probably hindering them in their development as a driver. There’s personal preference and all that to consider of course but my recommendation is:
L2 = brake
R2 = accelerator
X = gear up
◻ = gear down
L2/R2 should be absolutely obvious to anyone (pretty sure you’re already using them, aren’t you?) and X & ◻ are good in my opinion because your right thumb is pretty much already resting right on top of the mentioned two buttons, which makes it very comfortable and easy.
- 11,049
- Central Coast, NSW
- Com_Fox5
- EelX 5
Just picked up the game and figured I try to learn MT but after the first non oval race and the first circuit experience trying to get Gold, I dropped out and went back to AT.
I definitely feel the AT downsides of having to break or accelerate based on what gear I should be in to not understeer into a corner or oversteer out of a corner which means a lack of freedom but I just don't think I have the reflexes for a Group 3 car entering the first two slow corners after high speed having to shift down (and if I shift down too fast the car just gets stuck). It makes me far more slower than having it on AT just fighting the gears with my Accelerator and Breaks.
So skill issue on my part
I definitely feel the AT downsides of having to break or accelerate based on what gear I should be in to not understeer into a corner or oversteer out of a corner which means a lack of freedom but I just don't think I have the reflexes for a Group 3 car entering the first two slow corners after high speed having to shift down (and if I shift down too fast the car just gets stuck). It makes me far more slower than having it on AT just fighting the gears with my Accelerator and Breaks.
So skill issue on my part
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- 303
- Las Vegas
- OneDJYouLike
I wouldn't refer to this as a secret tip, but it is my best advice and a thorough explanation of how I transitioned from AT to MT as a new Gran Turismo and Sim Racing player in 2023. I have been gaming regularly for 30+ years, but my racing/driving game history has always been Arcade racers like San Francisco Rush, Crazy Taxi, Need For Speed, GTA, and Mario Kart. So, switching after 30+ years of AT was a significant challenge for me. Below, I have done my best to make this long post more straightforward to follow.
The following suggestions are mainly for those like me who find it uncomfortable or clunky to make the switch because you have been in your comfort zone for so long as opposed to those with physical injuries that prevent them from using the triggers properly. Shifting up and down does not require any light pressure or medium pressure. You want the button press to go from 0-100 instantly. This is not the case with Gas and Throttle in this game or any racing game that focuses on physics over Arcade-style action. The need for finesse on the throttle and brake is even more pronounced since update 1.49. The physics is more realistic, and vehicles are more likely to react to slamming on the gas and slamming on the brakes. Some vehicles can still be tuned or are stock-ready to be forgiving and can handle full throttle or brake. But most tunings and vehicles all require a different level of finesse. The course, tire selection, and weather all affect how quickly or slowly you should go from 0% to 100% gas/brake.
Use your R2/L2 triggers for Throttle and Brake and get the feel of their sensitivity with AT first. Use a vehicle you feel comfortable has a good balance of handling and speed. Tokyo WTC600 event is the perfect event to practice and keep repeating Lap 1. For beginners, this event allows you to wall ride some turns to get consistent fast laps and avoid vehicles for the Clean Race Bonus. But if you want to learn MT, avoid wall riding and focus on using the exact trusted vehicle to generate muscle memory by using your L2 and R2 triggers at varying degrees of pressure to navigate the turns. Focus on speed through turns instead of stiff steering or drifting style turns. On the final hairpin, you want to slow the vehicle down enough that the AT downshifts all the way down to 1st gear. Then practice exactly how slow/fast you increase speed out of that final corner without spinning out your tires and also without being quickly passed by the driver behind you. Lap 1 features plenty of traffic to navigate as well as the course is at its wettest. So keep hitting Retry after Lap 1 until you master the gas and brake for that lap. If you are struggling with certain turns, watch the replay of the cars in positions 1-3 and take note of what gear they are in on the turns you are struggling with. If the top 3 cars are all in Gear 3 through a turn you have trouble with, and you are taking that turn in 4th gear, that should tell you that you are slamming on your gas too much and not applying a light amount of braking pressure that you should be before you enter that turn. Or, instead of braking, you may find it easier to adjust your throttle input leading into the turn. If you are thinking about trail braking and advanced techniques for the fastest lap time, you are getting way ahead of yourself.
Your goal is to repeat this repeatedly and get the finesse and requirements for each turn for pressure sensitivity when using your triggers. Your goal is building muscle memory and avoiding 100% pressure every time you hit the gas or brake. Once you develop muscle memory, you can focus on introducing a new finger, like your right thumb, to upshift and downshift. Plus, you will already have memorized which turns you should be in 3rd gear and which turns you should be in 2nd gear. Learning to add that extra finger press will be much less of a struggle if you have memorized the entire lap of which gears you should be in based on how the auto transmission was changing depending on your speed, which you already fine-tuned through previous lap practice.
I already shared the button configuration that worked best for me earlier in this thread, which uses X to Upshift and [] to Downshift. The configuration you choose for buttons besides L2 and R2 for upshift/downshift is up to you to decide based on your preference and comfort. Most all function the same. The exceptions are L2 and R2, which allow far more control over the input. Which is why most intermediate to advanced players will suggest that if you must use a controller, you should reserve the triggers for Gas/Throttle. Repeating practice on a challenging lap like Tokyo WTC600 lap 1 in baby steps, as I'm suggesting, is a path I highly recommend and is worth it in the long run. This method didn't take me more than a week once I committed to it. Techniques like trail braking and when to shift in the power bend, as discussed in this thread, are the next steps you will be happy to tackle once you are no longer looking back at the AT vs. MT hurdle.
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- 911
- Canada
My advice is to go out on a simple track that has only a few corners, hop in a low-power road car and just start doing laps. Get comfortable with the controller config and braking and accelerating while shifting and let things start to feel natural. It just takes time and practice but I bet before too long you'll get the feel of it.
And NAXEHT's suggested config is good. I use triangle and square for UP and DOWN shift myself. I definitely would not recommend using the shoulder buttons for shifting. That just seems like a very unnatural way to handle things.
And NAXEHT's suggested config is good. I use triangle and square for UP and DOWN shift myself. I definitely would not recommend using the shoulder buttons for shifting. That just seems like a very unnatural way to handle things.
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