My T500RS "Even Stiffer" Brake Mod
- Thread starter mrbasher
- 305 comments
- 65,199 views
That's some grip strength.
- 1,358
- Redmond, WA
- mrbasherman
LOL!
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
Back in the day I could squeeze a spring bathroom scale in both hands up to 360 pounds. (long, drunk story lol) I'm not that strong anymore though. I broke both of my wrists a few years ago in a motorcycle accident and need to start working out again.
"You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
Back in the day I could squeeze a spring bathroom scale in both hands up to 360 pounds. (long, drunk story lol) I'm not that strong anymore though. I broke both of my wrists a few years ago in a motorcycle accident and need to start working out again.
One bushing for me got to spongy and now that I built up some muscle strength have no problem with two 73. But in the future I absolutely want to source some softer variants unless they get as spongy as single 73. It´s slightly annoying having a left leg twice the size of my right 
... I am left legged to begin with and only do LFB lol
... I am left legged to begin with and only do LFB lol
- 838
- Tennessee
Welp all my skate shop had was Doh Doh blues and Venom Blaze. Both are considered "medium" per the skate shop pro. Could not use dual blues or a single stock. So I honed out one and it feels jacked up. I brought the Venoms to work and ground down the outer edge and honed out the center. Lets see what I have when I get home. I think I'll be ordering some with less stiffness, it looks like.
- 838
- Tennessee
The Venom was labeled as just medium. I think its an 84a. I'm using a single barrel but I honed the hole to about a 1/2 inch or 9/16th's. I had to shave off the outer rim on this type bushing. It was about a 16th thick. I am going to use one of my upper arm stop plates as a bracket to hold it in place. I'm running GT style. I don't think it will pop out but just being safe. Also with the performance of this mod I am not getting that annoying as hell lock up that I used to get. I still get it a little but nothing like before and it's more controllable.
- 11
The ones who drill in these bushings or scrap some off need to be very careful. You really must wear protection for your eyes, mouth and nose.
This stuf is very dangerous to inheal.
I want them too in my t500 pedals but I dont know if i nee to cut them to fit right.
Here you can find more info:
http://polyurethane.americanchemistry.com/
This stuf is very dangerous to inheal.
I want them too in my t500 pedals but I dont know if i nee to cut them to fit right.
Here you can find more info:
http://polyurethane.americanchemistry.com/
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- 838
- Tennessee
I had to shave them to make them fit. Also the resistance was way to high. That's why I honed the hole larger. Yes I am very much aware of the hazards associated with urethanes as I did the work at my work. BASF Corporation. I should have posted the warnings, my employer would have been proud.
- 838
- Tennessee
The bushings I used are the Venom Eliminator High Performance: type. They where the only ones my local skate shop had, other then some higher durometer types. They have a small lip on them you can see here http://www.venomskate.com/bushings/
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- 1,358
- Redmond, WA
- mrbasherman
wakuwaku,
You will not need to cut the bushings you ordered in order for them to fit. They slip right in and I now include instructions for installing them.
As some have said, you can always try using one bushing if two is too stiff... I personally like 2, but some people only like one. It's a personal preference thing.
As well, I am currently searching for a supplier of some lower durometer bushings. I'd like to combine a lower one with a higher one and see if a happy medium can be found.
You will not need to cut the bushings you ordered in order for them to fit. They slip right in and I now include instructions for installing them.
As some have said, you can always try using one bushing if two is too stiff... I personally like 2, but some people only like one. It's a personal preference thing.
As well, I am currently searching for a supplier of some lower durometer bushings. I'd like to combine a lower one with a higher one and see if a happy medium can be found.
- 11
Thanks mrbasher, I still did not find a shop here in Belgium where I could buy these, there are some online shops but I like to feel them before I buy.
I will ask some skating guys when i see them skating here.
First I need to drill out the broken bolt, I overtightend it and the head broke off when I mounted the Thrustmaster Brake mod grrrr.
I used my own solution for 1.5 years now, which is the brake mod and a chairfoot glider, I really don't know how to call these in English. These are things with glue on them which you can stick uder chairs so they slide over the floor. This prevented the scratching noise from the spring, and I sticked 2 of them so the brake was kinda solid already. I really needed push hard to get max brakes and it also made me faster.
This also was a cheap solution but I have to exchange the gliders many times because they wear out a bit.
Now I want try your bushing solution because the Bodin loadcell is not in stock at these time, and this is much cheaper also, so I want give it try.
I will ask some skating guys when i see them skating here.
First I need to drill out the broken bolt, I overtightend it and the head broke off when I mounted the Thrustmaster Brake mod grrrr.
I used my own solution for 1.5 years now, which is the brake mod and a chairfoot glider, I really don't know how to call these in English. These are things with glue on them which you can stick uder chairs so they slide over the floor. This prevented the scratching noise from the spring, and I sticked 2 of them so the brake was kinda solid already. I really needed push hard to get max brakes and it also made me faster.
This also was a cheap solution but I have to exchange the gliders many times because they wear out a bit.
Now I want try your bushing solution because the Bodin loadcell is not in stock at these time, and this is much cheaper also, so I want give it try.
- 2,912
- Antwerp
- GTP_Frank
LogiForce
Premium
- 4,078
- Groningen, Netherlands
- LogiForce86
- LogiForce
Rofl... i bet.
Look up Spike Jones - Chinese Mule train. It's a parody on this one.
Edit:
First impressions. For me it's too stiff. Especially with two it feels like a board to me. I miss a lot of throw and initial pressure that would give a signal through the nerves in my foot to indicate I am pressing a pedal.
With one bushing it is better, but it's still too hard to depress.
So maybe I need to take out the original spring assembly? I dunno. I will probably go back and forth for a while trying out configurations.
In any case, I will now mount it to the gas pedal to see how that feels.
Edit:
Tried it under the gas pedal, but that doesn't give the feel I want either. Besides that... Its way too stiff for a gas pedal which we have applied at 100% most of the time. lol
Wasn't able to try the cable yet. My CSW is still dead and Thomas hasn't replied in over 10 days and send him a message yesterday as a reminder as well. I know a CEO isn't waiting for me, still in 10 days one could reply no matter their position.
Look up Spike Jones - Chinese Mule train. It's a parody on this one.
Edit:
First impressions. For me it's too stiff. Especially with two it feels like a board to me. I miss a lot of throw and initial pressure that would give a signal through the nerves in my foot to indicate I am pressing a pedal.
With one bushing it is better, but it's still too hard to depress.
So maybe I need to take out the original spring assembly? I dunno. I will probably go back and forth for a while trying out configurations.
In any case, I will now mount it to the gas pedal to see how that feels.
Edit:
Tried it under the gas pedal, but that doesn't give the feel I want either. Besides that... Its way too stiff for a gas pedal which we have applied at 100% most of the time. lol
Wasn't able to try the cable yet. My CSW is still dead and Thomas hasn't replied in over 10 days and send him a message yesterday as a reminder as well. I know a CEO isn't waiting for me, still in 10 days one could reply no matter their position.
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- 1,358
- Redmond, WA
- mrbasherman
Can you explain this portion for me more?
"initial pressure that would give a signal through the nerves in my foot to indicate I am pressing a pedal"
That's interesting actually because it's the reason I came up with the mod... So that you can tell how hard you are pressing on the pedal right from the start. However, what you are saying suggests the opposite?
I find the mod very interesting because there seems to be such a variation between what people like. Some people like 1, some people like 2, some people shave them down a bit, some like the travel, some don't. Quite interesting stuff really as it seems to be a bit all over the board. Their does some to be some concentration into two groups though of either single or double.
What is odd as well is that personally, I could not make the Clubsport pedals feel right for me. There was not enough initial resistance and the final portion of resistance was a bit, "short" or something. What I also find interesting is that people have started to "come out of the woodwork" about wanting more resistance on their Clubsport pedals... This is a bit of a change from what used to be everyone simply raving about them. I'm getting off topic and don't want to start a debate... Sorry. I do believe this is the reason so many people's load cells break though... They want more resistance so turn the brake sensitivity way down, making full braking require more pressure.
My point is this I suppose: It seems that everyone's idea of a "proper" brake is different and that interests me greatly. It's also why I am looking to find some different bushings that offer a happy medium in which folks can configure the resistance. Travel is an area of concern with this as it is limited though not significantly less than when using the realistic brake mod. The feel however is quite different.
I'm working on some other ideas, well in my head at least, that would allow better travel. Remember though as a comparison, I believe the Clubsport pedals have a brake travel of 1.5"... I'm going to measure the throw on this with 2 bushings this evening. It feels like at least that. Though the pressure is higher.
"initial pressure that would give a signal through the nerves in my foot to indicate I am pressing a pedal"
That's interesting actually because it's the reason I came up with the mod... So that you can tell how hard you are pressing on the pedal right from the start. However, what you are saying suggests the opposite?
I find the mod very interesting because there seems to be such a variation between what people like. Some people like 1, some people like 2, some people shave them down a bit, some like the travel, some don't. Quite interesting stuff really as it seems to be a bit all over the board. Their does some to be some concentration into two groups though of either single or double.
What is odd as well is that personally, I could not make the Clubsport pedals feel right for me. There was not enough initial resistance and the final portion of resistance was a bit, "short" or something. What I also find interesting is that people have started to "come out of the woodwork" about wanting more resistance on their Clubsport pedals... This is a bit of a change from what used to be everyone simply raving about them. I'm getting off topic and don't want to start a debate... Sorry.
I do believe this is the reason so many people's load cells break though... They want more resistance so turn the brake sensitivity way down, making full braking require more pressure.My point is this I suppose: It seems that everyone's idea of a "proper" brake is different and that interests me greatly. It's also why I am looking to find some different bushings that offer a happy medium in which folks can configure the resistance. Travel is an area of concern with this as it is limited though not significantly less than when using the realistic brake mod. The feel however is quite different.
I'm working on some other ideas, well in my head at least, that would allow better travel. Remember though as a comparison, I believe the Clubsport pedals have a brake travel of 1.5"... I'm going to measure the throw on this with 2 bushings this evening. It feels like at least that. Though the pressure is higher.
LogiForce
Premium
- 4,078
- Groningen, Netherlands
- LogiForce86
- LogiForce
Well, I think it also depends on what kind of car you drive in real life to be honest. In other words, what you're used to.
I personally drive a Lancia Delta HPE 1.6 16v from 1999. This car has the same about the same throw as my grandparents their Ford Fiesta which I have also driven. However, their fiesta has a much faster brake pressure build up (and more bite it feels like) than my Lancia Delta.
Now this was my initial impression. So I started to experiment more with braking in my car. I noticed that my car's build up was slower, but the bite was the same. It's just that I have to press the pedal further in to get the same amount of brake pressure (and pressure from the pedal).
So with this I concluded that because my pressure build up was more gradual over the slightly longer throw needed, I could simply brake more precisely as there was more room to modulate the actually pressure.
With a high pressure like on the Ford Fiesta and slightly shorter throw I noticed that it was harder to modulate the brake on the edge as there is a much smaller room to modulate the brakes.
In other words, due to the longer throw and slower build up it is easier to drive while using threshold braking, and trail braking.
Now if I apply your mod (with one bushing) it has a short throw compared to the Fiesta, but the pressure when the Fiesta starts biting feels the same as the mod does. Yet, there is little room to modulate the brakes for said threshold and trail braking.
Maybe I am just too used to the feel of my Lancia Delta. Which is equal to the pressure build up of the standard compression spring setup without brake mod (actually it's much closer to my modded CSPv2's brake pedal pressure build up, which I did get to feel nice).
It's not that everyone's idea of a proper brake is different. It's just what everyone's used to is different. Also we all try to make due with springs and other stuff like your bushings to make it feel like our real car, but nothing will beat that hydraulic pressure build-up in a car.
I personally drive a Lancia Delta HPE 1.6 16v from 1999. This car has the same about the same throw as my grandparents their Ford Fiesta which I have also driven. However, their fiesta has a much faster brake pressure build up (and more bite it feels like) than my Lancia Delta.
Now this was my initial impression. So I started to experiment more with braking in my car. I noticed that my car's build up was slower, but the bite was the same. It's just that I have to press the pedal further in to get the same amount of brake pressure (and pressure from the pedal).
So with this I concluded that because my pressure build up was more gradual over the slightly longer throw needed, I could simply brake more precisely as there was more room to modulate the actually pressure.
With a high pressure like on the Ford Fiesta and slightly shorter throw I noticed that it was harder to modulate the brake on the edge as there is a much smaller room to modulate the brakes.
In other words, due to the longer throw and slower build up it is easier to drive while using threshold braking, and trail braking.
Now if I apply your mod (with one bushing) it has a short throw compared to the Fiesta, but the pressure when the Fiesta starts biting feels the same as the mod does. Yet, there is little room to modulate the brakes for said threshold and trail braking.
Maybe I am just too used to the feel of my Lancia Delta. Which is equal to the pressure build up of the standard compression spring setup without brake mod (actually it's much closer to my modded CSPv2's brake pedal pressure build up, which I did get to feel nice).
It's not that everyone's idea of a proper brake is different. It's just what everyone's used to is different. Also we all try to make due with springs and other stuff like your bushings to make it feel like our real car, but nothing will beat that hydraulic pressure build-up in a car.
- 1,358
- Redmond, WA
- mrbasherman
That's funny you mention that about what you drive in real life because I was going to mention exactly that but I felt like I had already written way too much.
For me, I have long since separated the feel of my real cars brakes from that of my sim brakes. I just have not been able to find enough comparisons between the steering, braking, shifting, etc. (long list of course) So, somehow over time my brain has just gotten used to it I suppose.
I drive two cars in real life. One is a 2001 E39 M5 and the other is a 2007 VW GTI. Both cars have much much more pedal throw than any sim brake I have seen or used... The pressure buildup you were speaking of doesn't seem apparent on the M5 or I have never noticed it. On the GTI, it is there to a degree though. Like if you were to pump the brake a bit, it'd be harder quicker of course.
That said, the travel distance I think is part of the key here and It needs some working on. We'll get there. What I like is that urethane seems to have a properly that "feels good" I have drawn up some different types shapes and configurations for the urethane that I'd like to try at some point. Ideally, you essentially need two stages to represent the two stages on a real brake. There is the portion before pistons make a seal, and then after the seal is made. (in the master cylinder) Which obviously would correspond to low then higher resistance. and also, more then less travel.
A spring in this case does not seem ideal I have found. I have experimented with about 20 different types of springs and weights. You would need a spring specifically designed for the purpose, like the GTEYE or Nixim. Even though, the spring has a very high rebound rate while the urethane seems to be dampened to a certain degree. This really seems to help on the release. However, as you stated, the short travel does make this more difficult.
Personally, I like the short travel though it does take some getting used to and it does not feel like a real car brake... Though, maybe a little like the latter portion of a real brake I suppose.
Damn that got long
sorry
For me, I have long since separated the feel of my real cars brakes from that of my sim brakes. I just have not been able to find enough comparisons between the steering, braking, shifting, etc. (long list of course) So, somehow over time my brain has just gotten used to it I suppose.
I drive two cars in real life. One is a 2001 E39 M5 and the other is a 2007 VW GTI. Both cars have much much more pedal throw than any sim brake I have seen or used... The pressure buildup you were speaking of doesn't seem apparent on the M5 or I have never noticed it. On the GTI, it is there to a degree though. Like if you were to pump the brake a bit, it'd be harder quicker of course.
That said, the travel distance I think is part of the key here and It needs some working on. We'll get there. What I like is that urethane seems to have a properly that "feels good" I have drawn up some different types shapes and configurations for the urethane that I'd like to try at some point. Ideally, you essentially need two stages to represent the two stages on a real brake. There is the portion before pistons make a seal, and then after the seal is made. (in the master cylinder) Which obviously would correspond to low then higher resistance. and also, more then less travel.
A spring in this case does not seem ideal I have found. I have experimented with about 20 different types of springs and weights. You would need a spring specifically designed for the purpose, like the GTEYE or Nixim. Even though, the spring has a very high rebound rate while the urethane seems to be dampened to a certain degree. This really seems to help on the release. However, as you stated, the short travel does make this more difficult.
Personally, I like the short travel though it does take some getting used to and it does not feel like a real car brake... Though, maybe a little like the latter portion of a real brake I suppose.
Damn that got long
sorry
