NBA: 2013-2014 Season - DONE Spurs Win

[sumbrownkid]

I don't think Raptors can beat Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett in a seven game series. Those two just go HAM during the playoffs, but hey weirder things have happened in the playoffs.

 

[JohnBM01]

The playoffs begin on Saturday. Heading into the 2013-2014 NBA Playoffs, it's time to take one last look at how everybody finished. So here goes:

! = playoff team
!! = division champion

--- EASTERN CONFERENCE ---
ATLANTIC: Toronto!! (48-34), BKN! (44-38), NY (37-45), BOS (25-57), PHI (19-63)
CENTRAL: Indiana!! (56-26), CHI! (48-34), CLE (33-49), DET (29-53), MIL (15-67)
SOUTHEAST: Miami!! (54-28), WAS! (44-38), CHA! (43-39), ATL (38-44), ORL (23-59)

FINAL CONFERENCE STANDINGS:
01 - Indiana
02 - Miami
03 - Toronto
04 - Chicago
05 - Washington
06 - Brooklyn
07 - Charlotte
08 - Atlanta
REST: NY, CLE, DET, BOS, ORL, PHI, MIL


EAST PLAYOFF FIXTURES:
* #1 Indiana vs. #8 Atlanta
* #2 Miami vs. #7 Charlotte
* #3 Toronto vs. #6 Brooklyn
* #4 Chicago vs. #5 Washington


--- WESTERN CONFERENCE ---
NORTHWEST: Oklahoma City!! (59-23), POR! (54-28), MIN (40-42), DEN (36-46), UTA (25-57)
PACIFIC: Los Angeles Clippers!! (57-25), GS! (51-31), PHX (48-34), SAC (28-57), LAL (27-55)
SOUTHWEST: San Antonio!! (62-50), HOU! (54-28), MEM! (50-32), DAL! (49-33), NO (34-48)

FINAL CONFERENCE STANDINGS:
01 - San Antonio
02 - Oklahoma City
03 - Los Angeles Clippers
04 - Houston
05 - Portland
06 - Golden State
07 - Memphis
08 - Dallas
REST: PHX, MIN, DEN, NO, SAC, LAL, UTA


WEST PLAYOFF FIXTURES:
* #1 San Antonio vs. #8 Dallas
* #2 Oklahoma City vs. #7 Memphis
* #3 Los Angeles Clippers vs. #6 Golden State
* #4 Houston vs. #5 Portland

We can be assured to have both at least one Texas team and a California team in the second round of the West playoff bracket. Congratulations to all playoff teams; tough luck and better luck next season to everyone who missed out. The matchups are set. Time to tell it... who advances to the next round and further? Build those brackets up, folks!


If you prefer to assess your team(s) and share thoughts on this season's playoffs, you're free to do so. I'll assess my Rockets right now.

To say the least, the Rockets have actually surprised me. They've been stuck in mediocrity while finding ways to win games in the past. I think our own Villain predicted that whomever got Dwight Howard would INSTANTLY make that team a contender. Well... we picked him up, and we're definitely a contender. It was sad we had to give up Aaron Brooks during the trade period. What we got in return, however, was the brilliant Jordan Hamilton. He became a solid player whose contributions helped keep the Rockets afloat in many of our games. Don't forget the usual suspects for the Rockets- Patrick Beverley, Terrence Jones, Chandler Parsons, Francisco Garcia, D. Moitejunas(?), Omer Asik, Omri Casspi, and of course... some guy named James Harden (who I call "Big Nasty Beard"). The Rockets look like a team that could... and probably should play in the NBA Finals. The team's ability to gel together and play hard will take them to many heights. Whether or not those heights include the franchise getting its 3rd O'Brien Trophy in franchise history remains to be seen. I am holding off any and all reservations on how my Rockets will finish this season. I'd love for them to win it all, but I am not putting any serious confidence in them to do so until all of the games play themselves out.


Playoff predictions, team assessments, whatever you please... let's talk playoffs!

 

[a6m5]

We filled out the bracket for fun at work & I have Indiana over the Thunder. I find the prediction pretty difficult this year, as it really seems to be up for grabs. From the West, Thunder, Spurs & the Clippers I think could take it. From the East, you know the two. While I'm not really all that impressed with these five teams, for this year, I think any of them could be Champs.

 

[Brett]

While I am obviously biased to the Thunder, I think OKC would beat Indiana if they were to match up in the Finals. My feeling is the Thunder just have too much fire power on offense for Indiana to be able to match and OKC's defense would be too much for the Pacers' lackluster offense. I would lean towards Miami beating the Thunder if those two were to match up.

However, the West is going to be brutal. Having to advance through Memphis, likely the Clippers, and San Antonio is going to be no easy task.

 

[a6m5]

Indiana is a high risk/high reward bet for sure. I'm counting on them to put it together for the Playoffs, Miami to finally look old & hurt, but as of now, Indiana reaching, then taking the Finals is a long shot.

Two hardest series to predict for me was the OKC-LAC, also Chicago - Washington.

 

[McLaren]

The Heat have been coasting as they did last year; they get back into the swing of things during the Playoffs. Greg Oden could potentially bring their defense up to the Top 10 rankings if he stays healthy and has any big blocks as he has recently. He gets to let Birdman rest whilst still keeping that defensive edge going.

While I am obviously biased to the Thunder, I think OKC would beat Indiana if they were to match up in the Finals. My feeling is the Thunder just have too much fire power on offense for Indiana to be able to match and OKC's defense would be too much for the Pacers' lackluster offense. I would lean towards Miami beating the Thunder if those two were to match up.

However, the West is going to be brutal. Having to advance through Memphis, likely the Clippers, and San Antonio is going to be no easy task.

Half of OKC's fire power comes from KD, who was too busy stat padding this last month & playing long, unnecessary minutes. Unless he magically recovers from his tiresome looking game he's been having, the Pacers defense will have an easier time, esp. if they get back to how they were in the beginning.

 

[Brett]

Half of OKC's fire power comes from KD, who was too busy stat padding this last month & playing long, unnecessary minutes. Unless he magically recovers from his tiresome looking game he's been having, the Pacers defense will have an easier time, esp. if they get back to how they were in the beginning.

Westbrook is still a very viable scorer and turns it on quite often. Ibaka contributes nicely. His game also fits very well against Indiana. Indiana's defense is set up to force long two point jumpers. That is the strength of his game. It is also a strength of Durant's game, really any where on the floor is a strength for his offensive game.

Indiana's offense has been putrid over the last few months and closer to the 76ers in output than the league average. Even with a stifling defense, teams still need a half decent offense to win games.

All of the above goes without mentioning OKC's defense. I get the impression that many people seem to think OKC is all offense and little defense. Their defense has been a near league top defense the entire year. That is going to be trouble for a team with a very limited offense, especially when they are going up against a team with the League MVP and another top 15 player.

 

[McLaren]

KD & Russell make up half that teams shooting power. It's easy to see what happens to them when one doesn't play well or at all; they fall apart. KD can't lead a team on his own & they suffer dearly without Russells contributions. Russell can't lead the team because he plays too much hero ball. When they're both playing well, it's a deadly team. When one isn't as Durant has lately, they take a huge hit because again, both players make up half the offensive power.

And who's this top 15 player? I know it isn't Westbrick.

 

[Brett]

KD & Russell make up half that teams shooting power. It's easy to see what happens to them when one doesn't play well or at all; they fall apart. KD can't lead a team on his own & they suffer dearly without Russells contributions. Russell can't lead the team because he plays too much hero ball. When they're both playing well, it's a deadly team. When one isn't as Durant has lately, they take a huge hit because again, both players make up half the offensive power.

So you are telling me is that when a team's best players have a bad night, that team's chances of winning go down dramatically? Shocking!

Let's see who else that works for. Indiana? Check. We have seen it first hand over the last few months. Paul George has come back to Earth after a super hot start. Roy Hibbert has been pedestrian.

Unless Indiana's offense improves to near where it was at the beginning of the year, they are going to have a very difficult time with Chicago in the second round, much less Miami in the Conference Finals. The only offense that has scored at a lower rate per possession since the All Star break than Indiana is the powerhouse, tanktastic 76ers. That does not speak well for Indiana, even with their very stingy defense.

And who's this top 15 player? I know it isn't Westbrick.

Westbrook not Top 15? Please! Top 10 is probably more appropriate, but I was being generous with the number. However, I would love to see a list of 15 better players. It should be very interesting.

 

[a6m5]

I like Westbrook, but I don't know about top-10. Top-15 sounds doable, but I'm sure there'll be room for debate.

As for my pick of Indiana, again, that one's a gamble for sure. They did not close out the regular season strong, that's a fact.

 

[McLaren]

So you are telling me is that when a team's best players have a bad night, that team's chances of winning go down dramatically? Shocking!

OKC averaged 106 points/game. Westbrook averaged 21.8 points/game & Durant 32 points/game. Those account for half of the team's points. Next closest player? Ibaka at 15 & Jackson at 13 and both of them play 30 minutes a game with the other 2. Show me another team in the league where 2 players account for half the team's on average points per game

Let's see who else that works for. Indiana? Check. We have seen it first hand over the last few months. Paul George has come back to Earth after a super hot start. Roy Hibbert has been pedestrian.

Indiana averaged 96 points a game, but George only accounts for 21 points on average. Hibbert, Hill, Stephenson, & West all account for 10-13 points a game as the next contributing players behind George. Big difference between OKC who if Durant or Westbrook fall, there goes a third of their offensive firepower where as if George has a bad night, there's 4 other players who can make up that difference; we have seen Stephenson do it.

Westbrook not Top 15? Please! Top 10 is probably more appropriate, but I was being generous with the number. However, I would love to see a list of 15 better players. It should be very interesting.

In no order:

1. James
2. Durant
3. Nowitzki
4. Carmelo
5. Harden
6. Curry
7. Love
8. Noah
9. Paul
10. Griffin
11. Duncan
12. Parker
13. Irving
14. Howard
15. Wade

There are a few other players such as Ellis, Lawson, Lillard, etc. who all have had just as many good games as Russell's 46 & equal amount of contributions. Then you have guys like Rondo, Kobe, Nash, & Pierce who are still arguably better based on their accomplishments. The listed players are all nominated in multiple areas for leading the league & most have more impressive resumes. Westbrook's charm is his points contribution & his arrogance; there's more to that to be a Top 10/15 player. He doesn't carry the team on his own, he isn't a clutch shooter, he doesn't retain the ability to take over games (usually because it means Durant has to give up shooting). The only reason he ever gets listed so high as impact player is because again, OKC relies so heavily on him. Overall, however, he's not there beyond being a Top 5 PG in the league at the moment.

A top 10 player in the league also doesn't pull injury-prone moves like this that don't account for anything:


Let's be honest, if this clown had injured himself for something that would have actually been goal tending, OKC fans would have either made up excuses for what he did or put his head on a pitchfork whilst the rest of the league laughed as OKC's championship dreams sunk.

 

[a6m5]

....... Did you leave out LaMarcus just to 🤬 me off?



Not from Mac's list, off the top of my head, John Wall, Derrick Rose, Anthony Davis, etc. While most people would group Westbrook with these elite players, I find it kind of pointless to argue where he may be ranked in it. They are all pretty good.

 

[McLaren]

....... Did you leave out LaMarcus just to 🤬 me off?



Not from Mac's list, off the top of my head, John Wall, Derrick Rose, Anthony Davis, etc. While most people would group Westbrook with these elite players, I find it kind of pointless to argue where he may be ranked in it.

No lie, I had LaMarcus & Cousins where Howard was as a great, all-around big man, but ended up typing Howard just because he's likely to be a candidate for DPOY with Noah. But, Aldridge is definitely up there. I also considered Rose, but he hasn't really played in 2 years, so it's hard to tell where he stands now. Davis is another solid guy who like K. Leonard, should have a monster impact when they get into their prime.

 

[a6m5]

Doe this site not have "Don't Like" button? Booo!

 

[McLaren]

I guess we'll see in the next couple days who the better big man is.

 

[Brett]

OKC averaged 106 points/game. Westbrook averaged 21.8 points/game & Durant 32 points/game. Those account for half of the team's points. Next closest player? Ibaka at 15 & Jackson at 13 and both of them play 30 minutes a game with the other 2. Show me another team in the league where 2 players account for half the team's on average points per game

Michael Jordan's Bulls championship teams. Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen accounted for half of the Bulls's scoring. The drop off from those two to the third and then fourth scorers was more dramatic than this year's Thunder. The third scorer was Toni Kukoc with around 13 points per game. The best third scorer was Horace Grant for one year at 14 per game. After that? There were two guys over 10 points per game, each for one year. Those guys were at 11 and 12 per game respectively. Not exactly what I would call lighting up the score board after the top two producers.

Indiana averaged 96 points a game, but George only accounts for 21 points on average. Hibbert, Hill, Stephenson, & West all account for 10-13 points a game as the next contributing players behind George. Big difference between OKC who if Durant or Westbrook fall, there goes a third of their offensive firepower where as if George has a bad night, there's 4 other players who can make up that difference; we have seen Stephenson do it.

Except that is not at all true. If it were true, then Indiana would not have been nearly as bad as they have been since Paul George's production came back to Earth or there was an actual Roy Hibbert sighting, instead of the very rich man's Hasheem Thabeet impression that Hibbert has given this year.

Indiana have not been good on the offensive side of the ball all year and have been down right putrid of late. The piss poor Sixers have had comparable offensive production. To be even mentioned in the same sentence as a D-League worthy roster is sad.

Granted, Indiana's defense has still been very good. However, a fantastic defense can only make up so much for a well below average offense, especially since a league average offense is all but required to be a championship contender.

The difference between the Pacers and the Thunder is Durant and Westbrook are much more liable to be able to break out at any point, even against stifling defenses. The same cannot be said for Indiana. Further, a 'slump' for Kevin Durant is still better than at least 95% of the NBA.

In no order:

1. James
2. Durant
3. Nowitzki
4. Carmelo
5. Harden
6. Curry
7. Love
8. Noah
9. Paul
10. Griffin
11. Duncan
12. Parker
13. Irving
14. Howard
15. Wade

No disagreement on James, Durant, and Nowitzki. Those three bring a ton to the table and take very little off of it.

Why would you or anyone have Carmelo ranked so high? The guy is not a winner in the NBA. He lacks the fire needed to lead a team. Unlike Carmelo, Westbrook is going to leave everything he has on the court night in and night out. Westbrook knows nothing but competing at 100%. Carmelo has shown little of that type of drive. He has also shown a nice ability to gun for points and not step up to the plate on defense.

Stephen Curry is not the sixth best player in the league. His offensive production is off the charts, but his defense is too lacking. The same can be said for James Harden, except his defense is even worse than Curry's. I am not sure his attempt at defense is even considered defense. Throwing a statue out on the floor would likely have about the same impact.

Kevin Love is a great player, but has yet to reach the playoffs. In a league where star players dominate, it says a lot about a player who cannot get to the playoffs.

No disagreement on Noah, except I think I would move him up the list. He gives everything he can, competes to a ridiculous level every night, and leaves nothing on the floor. Noah is a player that any team could go to war with. He would be a fantastic addition to any team in the league. I would love for Noah to be in OKC. He would push the Thunder to a different, higher level.

Also cannot disagree on Paul. Fantastic player. The only downside to Paul is age and injuries are continually creeping up.

I would put Blake Griffin ahead of Kevin Love. It helps that he has Chris Paul. However, Blake showed he was able to step up in the absence of Paul and became an even better player during that stretch. Griffin has also shown more growth as a player than Kevin Love. He has continually improved aspects of his game.

Tim Duncan is an all timer and can still bring it when it is needed. Nothing else really needs to be said.

Tony Parker is very disputable. Parker's defense is lacking. His offense is very good, but saying he is heads above Westbrook is a completely false statement. Westbrook is every bit on the same level as Parker.

Kyrie Irving? In a conference as crappy as the East was this year, a player of his perceived caliber should be able to at least carry his team into the playoffs.

Howard? He has no clue what it takes to win a championship. He has all the physical gifts, but his idea of winning a championship involves coasting and complaining the entire time along the way. The problem is he is not nearly as talented as Shaq was while coasting. Kobe attempted to push Howard to become a better player. Howard did not like that. At the first chance of bolting town, Howard could not have jumped faster. Howard is a very good player, but he will likely never win a championship. The drive just is not there. If Howard possessed the same motor that Noah possesses, then this would narrative would be different, but that is not the case.

Dwyane Wade gets a pass because of winning three championships. After this year, no one in their right mind would take Wade over Westbrook. Wade's body is breaking down much too often and that is a liability. Further, I would argue that Chris Bosh is more important to Miami. His ability to dominate from the mid range frees LeBron and Wade to operate at their best in Miami's offensive scheme.

There are a few other players such as Ellis, Lawson, Lillard, etc. who all have had just as many good games as Russell's 46 & equal amount of contributions. Then you have guys like Rondo, Kobe, Nash, & Pierce who are still arguably better based on their accomplishments. The listed players are all nominated in multiple areas for leading the league & most have more impressive resumes.

Ellis? Ellis looks much better under great coaching. Rick Carlisle is probably the second best coach in the league after Pop. I would love for the Thunder to have Carlisle instead of Scott Brooks as their head coach. The guy is a fantastic coach and nearly always puts his team in the best positions to succeed. He would work magic with the Thunder's roster.

However, that has little bearing on Ellis compared to Westbrook. Westbrook is hands down the better player. Carlisle would make Westbrook look to be an even better player than he already is. It just shows the impact that Ellis could have had in the NBA had he had a great coach earlier in his career. Further, Mark Cuban would be jumping at the chance of having Westbrook over Monta Ellis.

Ty Lawson? Nice player. Very underrated, but not better than Westbrook.

Lillard is also a very nice player. His defense is in the same category as Curry and Harden, except possibly even worse. No offense meant to @a6m5, but the guy's defense is a large liability. In the coming years, with improvements, Lillard could be very scary. He already has the necessary swagger on the offensive end. His current offensive abilities are terrifying , but he takes a lot off the table with his defense. In a year or two, the conversation could very well be valid. At this point, it is not much of a conversation.

Kobe and Nash are past their primes. The contract the Lakers gave to Kobe is a complete and utter joke. That contract is great for the rest of the league. Kobe is never going to be able to live up to it. No one in their right minds would want either over Westbrook at this point in either's career.

Pierce is on the downside of his career. He is still a very good player, but he has to pick his spots. His veteran savvy is off the charts. Again, I do not believe any one in their right mind would want him over Westbrook.

Not sure what to think of Rondo. Very good defensive player. Great facilitator. Not a great scorer. The chip on his shoulder definitely drives him.

The listed players are all nominated in multiple areas for leading the league & most have more impressive resumes.

Except that is completely false. Outside of LeBron, Durant, Dirk, and Duncan, all of the players listed have shortcomings. Many of those shortcomings are listed above. Westbrook brings much more to the table than he takes off. The same can be said for all of the above players. Westbrook's shortcomings are just more apparent because he garners much more spotlight from the media.

Westbrook's charm is his points contribution & his arrogance; there's more to that to be a Top 10/15 player.

I get it. You have a problem with the massive chip on his shoulder that Westbrook carries. So does seemingly everyone else. You and everyone else are blinded by that fact. Westbrook brings much more to the table than he takes off.

That chip on his shoulder is also what separates Westbrook from other players. Without that chip on his shoulder, Westbrook would be Reggie Jackson or some other nice, good, but not a great player. It is what moves him up the list. He actually gives a crap. And not just a crap like all players say they give. He gives a giant, Goliath sized crap and that may not even be an adequate description. He has a fire that drives him to lay everything he can on the floor, much like Noah does night in and night out.

He doesn't carry the team on his own, he isn't a clutch shooter, he doesn't retain the ability to take over games (usually because it means Durant has to give up shooting). The only reason he ever gets listed so high as impact player is because again, OKC relies so heavily on him. Overall, however, he's not there beyond being a Top 5 PG in the league at the moment.

And? Very few players in the NBA can consistently do any of those things. Right now, that list consists of LeBron, Durant, and Dirk. That is very elite company.

Further, Westbrook has to do what he does for OKC because the other team focuses so heavily on Durant. Teams do that because they like their chances better with Westbrook than Durant. Focus on Westbrook or Durant? I am focusing on Durant every time because he will murder a team given the the slimmest of chances or even without the slimmest of chances. That takes little away from Westbrook, but instead speaks highly of how great Kevin Durant is.

Some blame also needs to be thrown Scott Brooks way for not having a better offensive scheme to utilize players around Durant and Westbrook. Give Pop or Carlisle the Thunder roster and the team would be more terrifying than it already is at its peak. The only difference would be that low points would happen much less often.

A top 10 player in the league also doesn't pull injury-prone moves like this that don't account for anything:

I would guess you would say the same about every player that does this type of thing. Kevin Garnett has been doing this his entire career. This type of thing is very common. Noah does it also.

Let's be honest, if this clown had injured himself for something that would have actually been goal tending, OKC fans would have either made up excuses for what he did or put his head on a pitchfork whilst the rest of the league laughed as OKC's championship dreams sunk.

More of that negative narrative about Westbrook. The OKC fans that have issues with Westbrook are part of a small minority. The other part is national media trying to drum up a story. It is drawing at straws.

 

[a6m5]

Just couple of things:

1 - I'd have criticized Lillard's defense myself, if he had any.

2 - Mac did say:

In no order:

1. James
2. Durant
3. Nowitzki
4. Carmelo
5. Harden
6. Curry
7. Love
8. Noah
9. Paul
10. Griffin
11. Duncan
12. Parker
13. Irving
14. Howard
15. Wade

 

[Brett]

Westbrook is closer to Top 10 than being outside of the Top 15. Westbrook is ahead of Irving and Howard at the very minimum. He is at least tied with the trio of Curry, Harden, and Parker. That would put him and that group tied for the minimum of 10th. I would also move the tier of Curry, Harden, and Parker ahead of Carmelo. That puts all of them in a tie of at least 10th or in a tie for 9th, depending on where Wade is slotted in the list. Above that and outside of LeBron and Durant, everything is a toss up, as all of those players are fantastic.

 

[JohnBM01]

Today begins this season's NBA Playoffs. Good luck to all teams in the hunt to become champions.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Looks like The Truth came out and silenced the city of Toronto.

Hey Toronto, the Nets maybe old, but KG and The Truth have more playoff experience between them than the entire Raptors combined. And stop giving them bulletin board material. Like that one Toronto newspaper saying: Dinosaurs, the Nets are so old that the Raptors ask them if they were their fathers.

Well looks like dad schooled son in game 1.

 

[McLaren]

Michael Jordan's Bulls championship teams. Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen accounted for half of the Bulls's scoring. The drop off from those two to the third and then fourth scorers was more dramatic than this year's Thunder. The third scorer was Toni Kukoc with around 13 points per game. The best third scorer was Horace Grant for one year at 14 per game. After that? There were two guys over 10 points per game, each for one year. Those guys were at 11 and 12 per game respectively. Not exactly what I would call lighting up the score board after the top two producers.

So, you had to go back 2 decades to the game's arguably, best player.

Except that is not at all true. If it were true, then Indiana would not have been nearly as bad as they have been since Paul George's production came back to Earth or there was an actual Roy Hibbert sighting, instead of the very rich man's Hasheem Thabeet impression that Hibbert has given this year.

You missed the key word, "can". I didn't say the remaining 4 players will or do make up if George has a bad night, I said they can, as in, they are capable.

The difference between the Pacers and the Thunder is Durant and Westbrook are much more liable to be able to break out at any point, even against stifling defenses. The same cannot be said for Indiana. Further, a 'slump' for Kevin Durant is still better than at least 95% of the NBA.

9 of 23, 8 of 26, 8 of 20, 8 of 24 were slump nights from now to March. And you think that's still better than 95% of the league? Reel it in there guy & let's not look like the chunk of OKC fans who didn't even follow basketball til' 3 years ago.

Why would you or anyone have Carmelo ranked so high? The guy is not a winner in the NBA. He lacks the fire needed to lead a team. Unlike Carmelo, Westbrook is going to leave everything he has on the court night in and night out. Westbrook knows nothing but competing at 100%. Carmelo has shown little of that type of drive. He has also shown a nice ability to gun for points and not step up to the plate on defense.

They're not ranked. Read, "In no order:".

Carmelo averages 27 points & 8 rebounds a game, and finished 2nd in scoring for the league behind Durant, first last year. Carmelo also has the ability to take over games & has had more than a few clutch buckets in his career. He & Durant both share the ability to hit a pull-up clutch 3 pointer. Your winner comment is baseless compared to Westbrook. Westbrook may like to try and lead the team, but he lacks the efficiency to do so, and has failed on more than one occasion where Durant should be taking over. So, streaky shooter & not realizing his role over a guy who sits back, but still retains the ability to actually make his shots.

I suggest looking back into Carmelo's ability to affect the game beyond as a Knick.

Stephen Curry is not the sixth best player in the league. His offensive production is off the charts, but his defense is too lacking. The same can be said for James Harden, except his defense is even worse than Curry's. I am not sure his attempt at defense is even considered defense. Throwing a statue out on the floor would likely have about the same impact.

They're not ranked. Read, "In no order:".

All I'm seeing is a trend of you basically saying Westbrook is better because of his defense. Too bad that's not true & isn't what makes him better. If anything, these 3 are equal in statistics, but Harden & especially Curry have proven why they're better players. You're out of your mind if you think Westbrook is anywhere on the league of Curry who has single handed won games for Golden State.

Kevin Love is a great player, but has yet to reach the playoffs. In a league where star players dominate, it says a lot about a player who cannot get to the playoffs.

I suggest you go back, and look into what kind of roster Love has to deal with & his comments that he is tired of leading the team. Love reached 3rd in rebounds, 3rd in efficiency, and 5th in scoring. He does a lot more for his team than Westbrook does.

I would put Blake Griffin ahead of Kevin Love. It helps that he has Chris Paul. However, Blake showed he was able to step up in the absence of Paul and became an even better player during that stretch. Griffin has also shown more growth as a player than Kevin Love. He has continually improved aspects of his game.

They're not ranked. Read, "In no order:".

Tony Parker is very disputable. Parker's defense is lacking. His offense is very good, but saying he is heads above Westbrook is a completely false statement. Westbrook is every bit on the same level as Parker.

Not even close, and again, your argument completely revolving around how Westbrook is a better defender. Parker is a top PG because he is a proven clutch player in crucial moments. Westbrook isn't.

Kyrie Irving? In a conference as crappy as the East was this year, a player of his perceived caliber should be able to at least carry his team into the playoffs.

Does Westbrook carry his team to the Playoffs, or does Durant? Trick question. Irving is an undeniably better PG because of something his stats don't reveal; his ball handling & ability to score in multiple ways. Irving doesn't have a reputation for breaking ankles for nothing.

Howard? He has no clue what it takes to win a championship. He has all the physical gifts, but his idea of winning a championship involves coasting and complaining the entire time along the way. The problem is he is not nearly as talented as Shaq was while coasting. Kobe attempted to push Howard to become a better player. Howard did not like that. At the first chance of bolting town, Howard could not have jumped faster. Howard is a very good player, but he will likely never win a championship. The drive just is not there. If Howard possessed the same motor that Noah possesses, then this would narrative would be different, but that is not the case.

Blinded by nothing but what the media reports & 1 season with the Lakers. Howard was a 3 time repeating DPOY of the year, leading in blocks & rebounds. Howard was back to leading the league 4th in rebounds, & 6/7 in blocks. Give him another season to continue getting better after his surgery.

And your Kobe comment is laughable. Guess who else hated playing with Kobe? Shaq. How many rings does he have again? How many of Kobe's rings is Shaq actually responsible for?

Dwyane Wade gets a pass because of winning three championships. After this year, no one in their right mind would take Wade over Westbrook. Wade's body is breaking down much too often and that is a liability. Further, I would argue that Chris Bosh is more important to Miami. His ability to dominate from the mid range frees LeBron and Wade to operate at their best in Miami's offensive scheme.

What kind of hypocrisy is this? Wade gets a pass because of 3 championships, yet Parker doesn't?

Parker's overseas accomplishments alone place him ahead of Westbrook; Championship & multiple MVP awards.

Ellis? Ellis looks much better under great coaching. Rick Carlisle is probably the second best coach in the league after Pop. I would love for the Thunder to have Carlisle instead of Scott Brooks as their head coach. The guy is a fantastic coach and nearly always puts his team in the best positions to succeed. He would work magic with the Thunder's roster.

However, that has little bearing on Ellis compared to Westbrook. Westbrook is hands down the better player. Carlisle would make Westbrook look to be an even better player than he already is. It just shows the impact that Ellis could have had in the NBA had he had a great coach earlier in his career. Further, Mark Cuban would be jumping at the chance of having Westbrook over Monta Ellis.

Ellis was 4th behind Irving in clutch points (again, why Irving is a better player). That's a skill Westbrook doesn't have, and one most PGs are notable for. You seem to forget Ellis was actually a very good player for Golden State & are part of this group that only remembers him because he had to carry the Bucks.

Ty Lawson? Nice player. Very underrated, but not better than Westbrook.

I didn't say better, did I? I said he's had just as many good games as Westbrook and contributes just as much. Underrated as much Westbrook is overrated.

Lillard is also a very nice player. His defense is in the same category as Curry and Harden, except possibly even worse. No offense meant to @a6m5, but the guy's defense is a large liability. In the coming years, with improvements, Lillard could be very scary. He already has the necessary swagger on the offensive end. His current offensive abilities are terrifying , but he takes a lot off the table with his defense. In a year or two, the conversation could very well be valid. At this point, it is not much of a conversation.

Again, argument revolving around why Defense makes Westbrook makes Top 15 & failing to read "have had just as many good games as Russell's 46 & equal amount of contributions."

Kobe and Nash are past their primes. The contract the Lakers gave to Kobe is a complete and utter joke. That contract is great for the rest of the league. Kobe is never going to be able to live up to it. No one in their right minds would want either over Westbrook at this point in either's career.

More silly hypocrisy after that Wade comment. Kobe will still be a Top 10 GOAT with or without this season. Nash is already a better PG by his history alone. The man carried the Suns to the Finals. Where's Westbrook doing that? Oh wait, I'm thinking of Kevin.

Pierce is on the downside of his career. He is still a very good player, but he has to pick his spots. His veteran savvy is off the charts. Again, I do not believe any one in their right mind would want him over Westbrook.

Not sure what to think of Rondo. Very good defensive player. Great facilitator. Not a great scorer. The chip on his shoulder definitely drives him.

And more hypocrisy. Rondo lead the league in assists the last 2 years before Paul took it and is great at Steals. Undeniably, a much more impressive PG than Westbrook is.

Except that is completely false. Outside of LeBron, Durant, Dirk, and Duncan, all of the players listed have shortcomings. Many of those shortcomings are listed above. Westbrook brings much more to the table than he takes off. The same can be said for all of the above players. Westbrook's shortcomings are just more apparent because he garners much more spotlight from the media.

The listed players are all nominated in multiple areas for leading the league & most have more impressive resumes.

I'm sorry, but I suggest you start checking the League Leaders in various areas for this season; the players I mentioned are rated in multiple areas. So, no, that's not false.

Resume wise, again, check your history. Westbrook is a 3x All-Star & NBA Second-Team. His only shining award outside that is a PAC-10 DPOY of award, but that's a college award. So, let's see ignoring the first 3.
Carmelo: 7x NBA All-Star, 2x Second-Team, 4x Third-Team, Scoring Champion. His college career was much better as well.
Harden: 2x All-Star, 1x Third-Team, Sixth Man of the Year
Curry: All-Star
Love: 3x All-Star, 1x Second-Team, Most Improved Player, Rebounding Leader
Noah: 2x All-Star, 1x Defensive First-Team, 1x Defensive Second-Team. Does have 2 NCAA champions to this name.
Paul: 7x All-Star, 3x First-Team, 1x Second & Third-Team, 3x Defensive First Team, 2x Defensive Second Team, Rookie of the Year, 3x Assists Leader, 6x Steals Leader
Griffin: 4x All-Star, 2x Second-Team, Rookie of the Year
Parker: 3x Champion, Finals MVP, 6x All-Star, 2x Second Team, 1x Third Team. Again, his European accomplishments alone place above Westbrook as a PG.
Irving: 2x All-Star, Rookie of the Year
Howard: 8x All-Star, 5x First Team, 2x Third Team, 3x DPOY, 4x Defensive First Team, 1x Second Team, 5x Rebounding Leader, 2x Blocking Leader
Wade: 3x Champion, Finals MVP, 10x All-Star, 2x First Team, 3x Second & Third Team, 3x Defensive Second Team, Scoring Champion.

Well, I did say, "most have more impressive resumes." Again, where was I false? Oh yes, no where because I never said the word shortcoming.

You know, for someone that has only listed Defense as something Westbrook has above others, he hasn't made Defensive First, Second, or Third.

I get it. You have a problem with the massive chip on his shoulder that Westbrook carries. So does seemingly everyone else. You and everyone else are blinded by that fact. Westbrook brings much more to the table than he takes off.

You mean like how Howard has a greater impact on the game than Westbrook, but you're completely blinded by his drama? There's some of that hypocrisy shining through.

That chip on his shoulder is also what separates Westbrook from other players. Without that chip on his shoulder, Westbrook would be Reggie Jackson or some other nice, good, but not a great player. It is what moves him up the list. He actually gives a crap. And not just a crap like all players say they give. He gives a giant, Goliath sized crap and that may not even be an adequate description. He has a fire that drives him to lay everything he can on the floor, much like Noah does night in and night out.

This means about as much as GT players using PD's ability to capture the feel of driving as to why it's better than Forza. It's a baseless excuse used to make up for Westbrook's shortcomings in things that will actually define him. I bet Brandon Roy had a lot of fire in his heart, but he'll never be remembered for anything than his injuries (sorry a6m5).

And? Very few players in the NBA can consistently do any of those things. Right now, that list consists of LeBron, Durant, and Dirk. That is very elite company.

So Curry, Griffin, Irving, Carmelo, Howard, and so forth have never carried teams? They've never had clutch shots? They've never taken over games? Highly suggest you look back past before Westbrook was even relevant.

I would guess you would say the same about every player that does this type of thing. Kevin Garnett has been doing this his entire career. This type of thing is very common. Noah does it also.

Neither of them do stupid things like this. They're both known for the attitude like Westbrook does, but neither of them put their careers in danger by pulling these stunts.

The whole thing that makes your ranking completely out there is that you're attempting to rate Westbrook based on present playing time by claiming, "No one would take Rondo over Westbrook right now". By your logic, Perkins is a better Center than Kareem. And everyone in the league is a better player than Russell. That's a dumb statement & would raise eyebrows everywhere.

Is Westbrook a Top 15 player of the '13-'14 season? Sure. Is he a Top 15 player when put up against players currently playing, of all time? Not even close, but that's because he's young & inexperienced. No one in their right mind would ever stop right now & think Westbrook is a better PG than Rondo or Parker. Those guys have rings & multiple league awards, Westbrook doesn't, so what makes Westbrook better besides being younger?

 

[a6m5]

Just remember that Roy can still beat you at one-on-one.

Sucked for Clippers today. So great, but not fair on that out of bounds call Chris Paul got instead of a foul call. Oh, well. They were playing catch up anyway. Go Blazers tomorrow.

 

[Blitz24]

Pacers forgot how to Pacer.
Brooklyn took game 1.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Man I hope Chicago comes out the gate storming. Cannot give the Wizards any confidence in the playoffs.

 

[a6m5]

I had hard time guessing between the Bulls & Wizards, but most people seem to easily pick the Bulls in that series. I hope Blazers shoot well tomorrow.....

Pacers forgot how to Pacer.
Brooklyn took game 1.

Did the Pacers actually lose?

 

[Blitz24]

I had hard time guessing between the Bulls & Wizards, but most people seem to easily pick the Bulls in that series. I hope Blazers shoot well tomorrow.....

Did the Pacers actually lose?

Yes, and the final score difference of 8 isn't an indicator.

 

[Paulie]

Nets' experience too much in game 1, possible issues with nerves for the inexperienced Raptors. Must say I'm suprised at Atlanta and happy with Golden State.
If I may be so bold as to say who I'm cheering for in each series (not necessarily who I think will win).
Spurs
Warriors
Portland
Atlanta
Miami
Raptors
Wizards
and don't care between Thunder-Grizzlies.
Now to see if Memphis can make it 4/4 upset game 1 victories.

 

[a6m5]

When I picked the Pacers to win the whole thing, I still thought they'll struggle at the start. I also thought they'll still win the Game 1 though........ Pacers & Clippers loss in Game 1 I didn't see coming.

 

[Spacegoat]

Warriors beating the Clippers caught me by surprise. Honestly thought LA would handle them pretty easily, especially at home.

 

[McLaren]

Just remember that Roy can still beat you at one-on-one.

Is that in or out of a wheel chair? J/k, probably both.