Need a Break from Gran Turismo?

[Downhill Dino]

Is there a tally we can refer to for how many times you've posted that?

 

[Bopop4]

Is there a tally we can refer to for how many times you've posted that?

I have it at six.

 

[MXH]

@Hyland and @Wolfe owns Enthuisa, and I think they can give you a very good input on why the game's physics was so much better, and possibly the game overall as well. For me, the reason why Enthuisa had better physics is because the cars actually felt like real cars. In GT4 the cars felt there were on ice the whole time. I even found out I accidently left the aids on and took them off in GT4, and the cars STILL didn't felt like real cars at all to me, even in GT5 it was the same thing. No wonder I whined so much about Enthuisa being too hard. I was playing the real driving simulator this entire time in the PS2 era that possessed incredible physics on consoles at the time, and it didn't proclaimed as one either.

I'm no expert in regards to physics, but Enthusia's tire and suspension model are/were clearly vastly superior to GT4's, among other things. Wolfe made a great video which summarized the differences well - it's on YouTube, somewhere. All in all, Enthusia takes a huge dump on GT4's physics model from a ten story building.

I'm also in the same boat as Wolfe; to this day, I haven't found a game as satisfying as Enthusia. Having played FM4 extensively as well GT5/6, my initial impressions regarding physics came down to one thing: it still isn't Enthusia. Eventually, I end up coming back to it every now and then.

As for the career mode, Enthusia Life, it's a rather unusual experiene, confusing at first, as well very RPG oriented and unforgiving. I realize that this might be a major turn off for many but I'd suggest to at least give it some time. It'll most likely grow on you.

 

[Speedster911]

Not sure if trolling or in denial.



http://www.superstreetonline.com/eventcoverage/1213_gran_turismo_6_gps_visualizer_tested/
http://www.motortrader.com.my/news/nissanconnect-nismo-plus-to-be-standard-in-gt-r-nismo/

Okay, you can call it trolling/denial if you wish. Clearly, you don't see eye to eye with a lot of us "non-GT supporting" types. Which is fine. You enjoy the game, and it's cool you find the physics satisfactory. 👍

Sorry guys, I guess I didn't help matters by collecting three copies of Enthusia for myself. But if you have an operable PS2, you can find it at online retailers, as GTP_CargoRatt pointed out:

I have a badly scratched copy I'm using first (which reads perfectly on my new(er) refurbished PS2), a copy that's half as bad, and a clean copy, to forestall the search for another copy if disc failure occurs. I also bought the BradyGames strategy guide, years after the fact, just to collect it. It actually has some neat & useful stuff the game doesn't tell you, like the weight of every car for each weight reduction level, how many points each car needs to advance to the next tuning level, and which cars are eligible for specific Enthusia Life events.

To touch (briefly!) on the GT vs FM topic above, I left GT4 for Enthusia, then bought an Xbox 360 and followed the Forza series. But even FM4's driving experience doesn't satisfy the way Enthusia does, which is why I still play it when I get tired of any newer racing game. Every race is a treat, and each car feels unique.

I think T10 is deliberately holding back a really complex model for some reason - perhaps they want to keep the game accessible to everyone, as they want to appeal to car enthusiasts everywhere, not just track-happy precision driving simmers. FM5 has already seen improvements to the suspension modelling and things can only get better with future iterations. However, the bit about the controller triggers and analog sticks not working properly throughout the entire range even set at 100%, is not particularly reassuring. I'm not sure if it's been brought up here, but there's a discussion on forzamotorsport.net.

I'm personally happy with FM4 at the moment.. yes, it leaves a little to be desired.. but I don't have anything else to game on than an X360.

Well GT6's HSR never works on my PS3 so I cant do the sunday cup, but I do a few laps of Nurburgring in my Focus ST each day and then go onto either GTA or any of my old PS2 games, currently I'm on Underground 2, start of Stage 2, with a Hummer, 240SX, and Hyundai.

I'm no expert, but Enthusia's tire and suspension model are/were vastly superior to GT4's, among other things. Wolfe made a great video which summarized the differences well - it's on YouTube, somewhere. All in all, Enthusia takes a huge dump on GT4's physics model from a ten story building. I'm also in the same boat as Wolfe; to this day, I haven't found a game as satisfying as Enthusia.

I swear.. looking at how iracing's suspension modelling works almost makes me jealous! I think FM4's isn't too far off, although it isn't quite comparable to iRacing and other PC sims... I think part of the reason lies in the data capture during replays.. cars don't look particularly convincing. However, they look and feel fine while driving as you're braking/accelerating or going through turns. Still room for improvement. FM5 has narrowed that gap.

 

[TurismoBad]

Got Uncharted 2 from bargain bin for 12.99 € - great game but "unfortunately" I played TloU (finished 4 times) before so some animations are funny to watch (choking from behind is biggest offender).

As for racing games I'm enjoying Driver San Francisco - nice roster of licensed cars (Alfa 159!!!) nice damage model, stunts, cool missions, very arcadey but enjoyable and drift-happy physics. Plot and how the game is constructed around it while original, lowered the immersion for me. Could also do without the grain filter. (can't turn it off because they wanted it to be cinematic - see not only Kaz forces his vision!)

TloU MP got two free maps on Friday - gotta check that out too.

Still playing GT6 - hotlapping the Ring never gets old and I'm yet to try a lot of cars from when I did the "buy all premium cars" shopping spree. Some A-spec races are often repeated too. (Le Mans 24 mostly)

While it may not be the greatest game on earth it's still a pretty freaking huge one.

I was suprised by Formula GT - it's kinda awesome! If it wasn't for the seasonal chances are I would never re-buy it. (bought it before and sold after few kilometers of driving)

Not sure what happened - either I mastered the game better, PD tweaked the car or both.

 

[JR98]

Got Uncharted 2 from bargain bin for 12.99 € - great game but "unfortunately" I played TloU (finished 4 times) before so some animations are funny to watch (choking from behind is biggest offender).

As for racing games I'm enjoying Driver San Francisco - nice roster of licensed cars (Alfa 159!!!) nice damage model, stunts, cool missions, very arcadey but enjoyable and drift-happy physics. Plot and how the game is constructed around it while original, lowered the immersion for me. Could also do without the grain filter. (can't turn it off because they wanted it to be cinematic - see not only Kaz forces his vision!)

TloU MP got two free maps on Friday - gotta check that out too.

I remember Uncharted, great game on PS3, and I've played all 3. Great fun.

I love DSF. It's a very fun game and taking my 69 Charger through that S bend street is so much fun (I don't know SF very well). My favourite car in it though is the Murcielargo LP640. I love weaving through traffic in it. I find the cockpit view is very good on there as it is very detailed and seems to look better than the actual game. Never played TloU, but may pick it up for my PS4 at some point if it's cheap.

 

[JR98]

Try this first:

Man I wish I got to play this game it looks awesome, never seen a copy of it before, so unless I find a copy, I'll stick to Underground

 

[Zer0]

Okay, you can call it trolling/denial if you wish. Clearly, you don't see eye to eye with a lot of us "non-GT supporting" types. Which is fine. You enjoy the game, and it's cool you find the physics satisfactory. 👍

Yep, you enjoying FM4's simulation with a controller is not a problem, it is how you justify your enjoyment over GT with the previous quotes what make me think that you don't know what you are talking about.

And why you refer to you as "us"? I don't see many Forza supporters defending some of what you stated. This being specially disturning:

"Set your controller to normal [FM4] if you want the control to be more like GT or FM3"

Not sure what to think of that, even the most radical fans knows that at this point FM3 and GT6 are night and day, with the added problem that not all the Forza supporters are convinced with the FM4 simulation mode over the normal mode.

This is from the CEO of Fanatec regarding FM4:

The steering mode "simulation" let all cars oversteer more easily. Even the slowest Nissan Datsun 510 going uphill on Fujimi Kaido will oversteer easily although the power of the car is not enough to go higher than second gear most of the time. Do an oval track with a Mercedes C63 and you will fly off in every corner. Tim Schrick mentioned the tendency to oversteer the virtual M5 already on his comparision to the real car and he was using the old simulation mode.

I think the problem is not the oversteering but calling the mode "simulation". If T10 would have chosen "drift mode" it would have been more appropriate and still makes sense as it is fun to play. Remember: difficult not equal to realistic.

If you want to have more realistic car behavior and be faster than in the old simulation mode, you need to turn the steering mode to "normal" now.

The same problem noticed by a real pro driver here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ENmnEd7EZd4#t=225


And this was from T10 regarding FM3:

In Forza 3, we refined a steering assist to the controller (and to a lesser extent for the wheel) that helped the player countersteer, drift and recover. It slightly modified the player’s steering angle input as well as the rate of steering wheel rotation based on the yaw of the car and the player’s recent inputs. I loved the system for drifting, as it made me feel like a driving god without actually sacrificing our physics accuracy. It made the game easier to drift and recover by just interpreting the player’s input.

And last a GT5 vs FM3 review from Car&Driver:

GT5 is marketed as a simulator, and its physics model is extremely realistic. The behavior of the cars is startlingly faithful to their real-life counterparts, so they respond accordingly to poor driving and when you miss critical braking and turn-in points. In contrast, Forza is extremely forgiving and provides a much larger margin of error.

Forza is much more of a game than a hard-core simulator, but for the impatient and those less interested in absolute realism, this is hardly a demerit. Forza might feel slightly less realistic than GT5, but that just means inexperienced players can dive right in,

Lapping Laguna in both games supported our conclusion that Gran Turismo 5 is the more challenging of the two, punishing players (especially the less skilled) with its slavish adherence to real-world physics and handling, and both drivers turned in higher lap times than in Forza. Forza, conversely, made us look like pros, its vehicle-dynamics model allowing for often unrealistic cornering speeds.

Road-Test Editor Mike Sutton: Forza’s physics engine, however, doesn’t feel as comprehensive, as if it were using the one that was employed in Gran Turismo 3 A-spec or GT4 (10 or so years ago!). The experience, to me, is more of an arcade game. It’s easier to jump in and start playing with less of a learning curve.

Overall, these are both great driving games. But Forza is a game, whereas GT5 feels more like an actual simulator, with a steeper learning curve, more opportunities for error, and greater configurability.

More details in the link:
http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...t-comparison-gti-and-m3-at-laguna-seca-page-2

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Man I wish I got to play this game it looks awesome, never seen a copy of it before, so unless I find a copy, I'll stick to Underground

All this talk about this game prompted me to order a copy. Can't wait till it gets here. Time to dust off the PS2.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006IIPUS/?tag=gtplanet-20

Not that rare or hard to find, just have to do a simple search, which I have done for you. 👍

 

[Speedster911]

Yep, you enjoying FM4's simulation with a controller is not a problem, it is how you justify your enjoyment over GT with the previous quotes what make me think that you don't know what you are talking about.

And why you refer to you as "us"? I don't see many Forza supporters defending some of what you stated. This being specially disturning:

"Set your controller to normal [FM4] if you want the control to be more like GT or FM3"

Not sure what to think of that, even the most radical fans knows that at this point FM3 and GT6 are night and day, with the added problem that not all the Forza supporters are convinced with the FM4 simulation mode over the normal mode.

This is from the CEO of Fanatec regarding FM4:




The same problem noticed by a real pro driver here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ENmnEd7EZd4#t=225


And this was from T10 regarding FM3:



And last a GT5 vs FM3 review from Car&Driver:




More details in the link:
http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...t-comparison-gti-and-m3-at-laguna-seca-page-2

Thank you very much for that feedback. It seems you haven't played or even owned FM4 long enough to come to an accurate conclusion. It is clear as daylight you are defending the franchise because according to you and a few so-called pros, GT5 is highly accurate. Which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion.

You must also not have owned FM3, let alone played it to understand how I was trying to help the OP enjoy the experience. I did not mention FM3 is super realistic compared to GT5, YOU did. I'm not the troll here. End of story. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

I'm quite certain the CEO of Fanatec has probably never pushed a high-powered or even low-powered car over the edge to determine how Forza's steering model behaves. I mentioned in a previous post when somebody was coming to terms with the steering: use normal if you want smooth and steady steering. Switch to SIM if you want fast and twitchy steering. It's a lot like choosing between two different driving styles IRL. It's not a big deal; T10 were considerate enough to add both models. Neither is more realistic than the other, which interestingly you're trying to hint that as a claim I made, though I didn't.

Lastly, I'm not on this forum to win followers or have my own personal pro-Forza GT-trashing posse, therefore I do not need support or "people backing me up" as you say.

We get it, you despise Forza. You have made that very clear, without even owning the franchise or spending the amount of time you do on GT.

BTW, how much real-word driving experience do you have? Do you understand how cars react IRL when pushed over the edge at high speeds?

Got Uncharted 2 from bargain bin for 12.99 € - great game but "unfortunately" I played TloU (finished 4 times) before so some animations are funny to watch (choking from behind is biggest offender).

As for racing games I'm enjoying Driver San Francisco - nice roster of licensed cars (Alfa 159!!!) nice damage model, stunts, cool missions, very arcadey but enjoyable and drift-happy physics. Plot and how the game is constructed around it while original, lowered the immersion for me. Could also do without the grain filter. (can't turn it off because they wanted it to be cinematic - see not only Kaz forces his vision!)

TloU MP got two free maps on Friday - gotta check that out too.

Still playing GT6 - hotlapping the Ring never gets old and I'm yet to try a lot of cars from when I did the "buy all premium cars" shopping spree. Some A-spec races are often repeated too. (Le Mans 24 mostly)

While it may not be the greatest game on earth it's still a pretty freaking huge one.

I was suprised by Formula GT - it's kinda awesome! If it wasn't for the seasonal chances are I would never re-buy it. (bought it before and sold after few kilometers of driving)

Not sure what happened - either I mastered the game better, PD tweaked the car or both.

This is one of the franchise's greatest strengths. Has been since the very first game. Still has among the best track variety I've seen in a console driving game.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I recently played FM5 again and still amazed how bad the handling and controls are in that game. I wonder if it puts people off the game as I noticed there aren't many people on the leaderboards in rival events.

Anyway I took somewhat of a break from GT for a while now, only really do seasonal events to gold before they expire at most now. Good free game I play is Stick Tennis on mobile, daily challenges are fun to try and get 1st position in rankings. Regarding racing games, there is a lot to choose from so recently played Grid Autosport, pCARS, Assetto Corsa, GTR Evolution, rFactor and TD: Ferrari Racing Legends.

 

[Speedster911]

Yeah, those are all great racing games to choose from.

Though I'm surprised to hear you say the control is "bad" in FM5. Could you describe that in greater detail? Also, are you on a controller or wheel? Deadzone settings?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Yeah, those are all great racing games to choose from.

Though I'm surprised to hear you say the control is "bad" in FM5. Could you describe that in greater detail? Also, are you on a controller or wheel? Deadzone settings?

Got Enthusia: Professional Racing somewhere too, might jump on the bandwagon if I can find PS2 and power adapter.

I find it very hard to hit an apex in the game with normal road cars and push them anywhere near their limit. When I turn into corners, it seems like the rear always wants to snap out a little so it feels like you are constantly sliding a lot and also easy to understeer off track too. Just feels horrible to drive to me, Forza 4 from what I remember is much better. Can't remember about deadzone settings but probably without any.

 

[SJHRACING]

Just bought a Xbox one & Forza 5 & im loving it ( yes the handling is a bit different but ill get the hang of it soon )

The graphics are a big step up from GT6 ( puts flame proof suit on ) also having newer cars & old ones for that matter that I can customise is a winner in my books.

I still play GT6 but Forza 5 is calling my name at the moment.

See ya on track

 

[ironman44321]

I've been on and off with GT6 for the last few weeks. I just picked up Minecraft so I've been playing that and I just got back into PABR though I've mostly just been on a huge movie binge.

As far as other driving/racing games go...I'm not excited for driveclub as I just don't like the arcadey NFS style games and I'm not all that excited for PCars either as it looks to be pretty much all racing cars and I greatly prefer road cars.

 

[Speedster911]

^^ I think PCARS would be a good investment just to experience the physics and engine audio. I do believe there a few road cars to be found. But the roster's mostly dominated by race cars.

Got Enthusia: Professional Racing somewhere too, might jump on the bandwagon if I can find PS2 and power adapter.

I find it very hard to hit an apex in the game with normal road cars and push them anywhere near their limit. When I turn into corners, it seems like the rear always wants to snap out a little so it feels like you are constantly sliding a lot and also easy to understeer off track too. Just feels horrible to drive to me, Forza 4 from what I remember is much better. Can't remember about deadzone settings but probably without any.

I've read similar expressions from other FM5 players as well, complaining about the control exactly as you are. Remember the transition from FM3 to FM4? You had to relearn and retrain some of your lines and driving technique on the same tracks, due to the major improvements in physics. FM5 takes that to a completely new level from what I understand.

Though I would strongly urge you to set all inside deadzones to zero, outsides to max. This would allow you to better control the car with more intricate corrections and input. It also gives you greater freedom and range of motion with the triggers and analog stick. Set steering to NORMAL if you're having trouble with the steering mechanics.

Hope this helps. 👍

 

[MatskiMonk]

I don't need a break from GT, I just need more time to play it

 

[TokoTurismo]

Has anyone played this game? I just adore it and wished Capcom has continued it.

 

[Flying_Kefran]

Has anyone played this game? I just adore it and wished Capcom has continued it.

Auto Modelistaaaaaaaaa. That was so great.
I never understood why there has not been a #2

 

[TokoTurismo]

Auto Modelistaaaaaaaaa. That was so great.
I never understood why there has not been a #2

I know right? It saddens me too.

 

[Flying_Kefran]

If my memory is correct, it was even steering wheel compatible and had proper wheel management... That was not so common at that time (2002 ?)

 

[MXH]

Has anyone played this game? I just adore it and wished Capcom has continued it.

I used to own it and was a neat game if you looked past its issues. Though, the game's awful physics ended up bothering me too much and I traded it in.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I used to own it and was a neat game if you looked past its issues. Though, the game's awful physics ended up bothering me too much and I traded it in.

Yeah the physics was also the part I didn't really like, although I started to sort of like it because it felt wacky. Haha.

 

[RacerPaul]

And the thing with Forza: the tire model alone introduces some very interesting nuisances while you're driving.
Happy motoring mate! @Scaff, would you please enlighten this gentleman? I just don't have the patience to dig up any technical data at the moment!

I've seen this more than once so I have to point it out...

It's nuances, not nuisances

 

[MXH]

Yeah the physics was also the part I didn't really like, although I started to sort of like it because it felt wacky. Haha.

You get accustomed but it's still terrible. Sort of regretting trading it in though. Really liked the customization a lot once you started to unlock things.

 

[Griffith500]

If I ever make a racing game, cel-shaded it shall be. Which of course means it'll never happen. But it's a nice thing to say!

 

[drag_izayoi]

Has anyone played this game? I just adore it and wished Capcom has continued it.

Oh, I remember it well, because I still have the game Just thinking of the customizable garage makes me want to play it again

 

[Speedster911]

I've seen this more than once so I have to point it out...

It's nuances, not nuisances

Ah!

Good looking out. 👍

 

[GTPVenomZombie]

And what made me think you would quote my post?

If you were a half decent detective, you would see that I played for the duration of about half a beer just after the pathetic Senna content was released. Now go away.

Pathetic Senna Content? You`ve had one too many beers fella.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Besides GT, my favorite racing games were NFS (High Stakes and Underground 1 mostly) and Tokyo Xtreme Racer.

^ That was the one I played most. There were so many people to beat and tons of customization. It was a very satisfying game.

Does anyone remember Sega GT? It tried so hard to be GT, and it WAS a good game. Not sure why it didn't catch on...I liked it WAY more than Metropolis Street Racer...