Need for speed gets "serious".....confirmed!

[myke6699]

Same here...

Something about the way the cars are moving, just looks off. Furthermore, I'm still a bit miffed that they appear to be working on different physics models for the different types of racing (i.e drift, circuit), which I have always detested.

I'll reserve final judgment, but up till now the only thing making me excited is the track list, livery editor, and graphics.



I enjoy the GTR series, but there are also too many issues with the GTR series for me to get too excited by their inclusion in the NFS series. If they wouldn't have recruited Ero (sp?) to work on the tire physics, I would be even more worried, as that is easily the weakest point of the GTR franchise, in my opinion of course.

I don't think there's different physics model for drifting- from what I've read in one of the interviews, you tune or setup your car (just like GT5P) for drifting as oppose to specific mode.
I still play GTR2- when it comes to pure racing, I don't think there's any racing sims out there that could come close (rFactor and iRacing are perhaps the exception)- there's just a nice balance between all the elements. Sure, it's limited to RWD cars only but most Touring racers are RWD and I have yet to play a console sims that work as well with my G25 wheel. If SMS brings the FFB from GTR2 onto SHIFT, then I would be quite happy.

 

[Delphic Reason]

I don't think there's different physics model for drifting- from what I've read in one of the interviews, you tune or setup your car (just like GT5P) for drifting as oppose to specific mode.

I'll believe it when I see it. All the interviews I have read, have hinted at the mode dictating at least some of the physics characteristics. Although, I hope you're right.

I still play GTR2- when it comes to pure racing, I don't think there's any racing sims out there that could come close (rFactor and iRacing are perhaps the exception)- there's just a nice balance between all the elements. Sure, it's limited to RWD cars only but most Touring racers are RWD and I have yet to play a console sims that work as well with my G25 wheel. If SMS brings the FFB from GTR2 onto SHIFT, then I would be quite happy.

FFB, yes, physics, not so much. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things I like about GTR2's physics, but the tire physics are not the strong point by a long shot. By and large the total package is a good one, and as you said, the FFB is fantastic.

 

[Dave A]

What I read on the drifiting was that the drifting cars are pre-tuned for drifting. Whether or not that's a cover up instead of saying "we've tweaked the physics for drifting" or if it is purely car data being changed is a bit open.

 

[JosVerstappen]

I'll believe it when I see it. All the interviews I have read, have hinted at the mode dictating at least some of the physics characteristics. Although, I hope you're right.



FFB, yes, physics, not so much. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things I like about GTR2's physics, but the tire physics are not the strong point by a long shot. By and large the total package is a good one, and as you said, the FFB is fantastic.

easy solution for that, buy GTR evolution, has better physics, cars are more controllable, grip seems less like an on and off switch

and even better FFB then gtr2.

 

[markao]

easy solution for that, buy GTR evolution, has better physics, cars are more controllable, grip seems less like an on and off switch

and even better FFB then gtr2.

Agree, Renato did a great job with the physics of that one 👍


But that's from the old SimBin But I still do have have enough fait in the Blimey + Eero combi, after all they have had enough time to come up with the goods


Think it is impossible to judge anything physics related from vids, although I do think (now I am speculating myself ) they need to smoothen out the controller input a little bit more (it’s not as bad as it was in the 1st few vids). Looks like you need to be a little bit too sensitive with the inputs and don't think the average controller user will be that, so that needs some extra work IMO.

,

 

[markao]

It that time of the day again


Need for Speed Car of the Day - Lamborghini Murciélago

Few shots, resized, more available at the NFS site.

 

[McLaren]

I'll believe it when I see it. All the interviews I have read, have hinted at the mode dictating at least some of the physics characteristics. Although, I hope you're right.

I'm pretty sure he somewhat is. IGN has said when buying cars throughout the tiers, you have to choose & buy cars wisely as some cars won't be eligible for some drifting events & some will. Combine this with the macro tuning option that, as I understand it, can auto-tune the car to any degree you want, then letting you go in and "edit" it, & I think it's possible.

 

[myke6699]

I'll believe it when I see it. All the interviews I have read, have hinted at the mode dictating at least some of the physics characteristics. Although, I hope you're right.



FFB, yes, physics, not so much. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things I like about GTR2's physics, but the tire physics are not the strong point by a long shot. By and large the total package is a good one, and as you said, the FFB is fantastic.

Here's from an interview with Ian Bell (SMS Director)- I guess it is a different setup.

Will the drifting be a separate mode with its own set of physics as in GRID and NFS Pro Street? OR will drifting dependent entirely on the car setup similar to Live For Speed and Richard Burns Rally
IB: Drifting in SHIFT is a different race mode, but still using the same base physics. Each car is specially tailored for drifting in drift mode, though, as any pro drifting racer would setup and tune their car specially for drifting.

Just a few more from the interview:

in NFS will we find out different tires models and physics: different tires with different brand (for example: Goodyear, Firestone, Pirelli, ...) and different performance? different tires type (soft, intermediate, hard, rain, ...) with different performance?
IB: There are 33 different tire types in the game. There’s a big difference between different tire types, stock tires and upgraded tires (improved compounds, track tires, full slicks, etc.)

will arcade mode and sim mode use the same physics engine/file?
IB: They use the same base engine, but our novice mode adds a combination of driving aids and physics tweaks (grip, etc.) to achieve a more accessible, yet still believable driving model.

easy solution for that, buy GTR evolution, has better physics, cars are more controllable, grip seems less like an on and off switch

and even better FFB then gtr2.

The only is that I can't run Evo on my Macbook Pro (running XP with bootcamp). It's understandable because it is a newer game but the 128mb Nvidia 8600m on my laptop can't handle the game without having to switch off all the graphics options and then reducing the grid and still it would stutter badly. GTR2 on the other hand runs quite nicely.

 

[Paulie]

Another exotic in the screenshots.

 

[MagpieRacer]

33 tire types is quite impressive.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Will the drifting be a separate mode with its own set of physics as in GRID and NFS Pro Street? OR will drifting dependent entirely on the car setup similar to Live For Speed and Richard Burns Rally
IB: Drifting in SHIFT is a different race mode, but still using the same base physics. Each car is specially tailored for drifting in drift mode, though, as any pro drifting racer would setup and tune their car specially for drifting.

This still sounds to me like they are just using the "base physics" for each mode, but then changing the physics slightly based on the requirements of each mode.

 

[kikie]

well, Dev's have said that hardcore mode "Pro" can only be played with the wheel

That's not what they said:



* Lots of efforts has gone into handling development so the game can be driven with controller
* Professional setting will require wheel in order to successfully manage throttle/braking and steering inputs

You can use a controller in professional mode but it's better to use a wheel.

 

[kikie]

Our final and miscellaneous tidbits include the following: the PC version of the game supports the D-Box Motion Chair, and there's a slight possibility that this support will arrive for the PlayStation 3 in the form of a patch.

D-box

For starters, SHIFT supports Logitech wheels and has full support of the G25's clutch and shifter setup. Within the game are a plethora of tuning options for the wheel, so that you can customize its feel and feedback to your liking. The thing is, though, we didn't play this game with a Logitech G25. But rather another Logitech wheel, which has yet to be officially announced. But if you're an enthusiast, you've probably seen some of the leaked images of it. We wish we could go into details on some of the changes to this wheel, but we have to wait a bit.

G27!?


Link

 

[Andrew C]

It's a great possibility, but a few people have already found this and said this.

 

[peter_vod69]

This still sounds to me like they are just using the "base physics" for each mode, but then changing the physics slightly based on the requirements of each mode.

Well then you are reading it wrong. Unless by "changing the physics" you mean altering spring rates, camber settings etc... It seems pretty obvious the only thing that will change is that some cars are set up for drifting and some aren't. Tailored for drifting just means "set up to handle badly".

 

[Delphic Reason]

Well then you are reading it wrong. Unless by "changing the physics" you mean altering spring rates, camber settings etc... It seems pretty obvious the only thing that will change is that some cars are set up for drifting and some aren't. Tailored for drifting just means "set up to handle badly".

I'm not so sure. They are being very careful with their language. Not saying it is the same physics, but using the same "base physics", which other articles have also pointed to.

I hope you're right, by all means. I'm not convinced as of yet.

 

[balang_479]

After seeing some documentaries of the making of Shift, im not convinced... it was designed for a controller which cannot be good.. especially when Vaughn Gittin has been playing it and developing it for the controller.... NO NO!

Its looks like its gonne be a usual NFS

 

[McLaren]

After seeing some documentaries of the making of Shift, im not convinced... it was designed for a controller which cannot be good.. especially when Vaughn Gittin has been playing it and developing it for the controller.... NO NO!

Its looks like its gonne be a usual NFS

Except you don't know if he solely used a controller or not. And I'm pretty sure it has NOT been developed directly around a controller, if one of the devs. is telling you that the Professional setting is best used with a wheel.

 

[myke6699]

After seeing some documentaries of the making of Shift, im not convinced... it was designed for a controller which cannot be good.. especially when Vaughn Gittin has been playing it and developing it for the controller.... NO NO!

Its looks like its gonne be a usual NFS

I believe VGJ spent over 100 hours with SMS team on the physics- it would be wrong if all he did was to use a wheel since the majority of people who'll buy this game will be using either the 360 or the PS3 controller but that doesn't mean he only used a controller when working on the physics. Not to prolong a topic that's already been discussed but here's VGJ answer to some question on Speedhunters:

When I talk about feel and being realistic I mean that its not arcadey. you don't automatically get put into drift by pushing a series of buttons. You need to toss the car or use the ebrake properly, you have to give proper amount of inputs to get the right results with regards to initiation and adjustments. I have always used wheels and in my opinion both grid and Forza 2 feel like garbage on the wheel and the controller. Shift is the most realistic game out of the box I have ever played. It is quite challenging and fun, I'm curious to hear your feedback when you get a chance to try it!

 

[peter_vod69]

I'm not so sure. They are being very careful with their language. Not saying it is the same physics, but using the same "base physics", which other articles have also pointed to.

I hope you're right, by all means. I'm not convinced as of yet.

What other sort of physics are there? Don't be so damn cynical! The people actually MAKING the game engine and physics have a pretty good pedigree, and they are asking the right people for their feedback. The way I see it, as long as EA are only allowed to design the frontend stuff and handle the music licensing, this is going to be great.

 

[NLxAROSA]

After seeing some documentaries of the making of Shift, im not convinced... it was designed for a controller which cannot be good..

You do realize that PD designed GT5P to run perfectly when using a controller too, right? It's actually the case for any console racing game, since most people playing it will be using a controller, not a wheel.

 

[peter_vod69]

Hell, you can play GTR2 with a keyboard...

 

[myke6699]

Hell, you can play GTR2 with a keyboard...

I used to drive the F1 cars in GP3 with a mouse

 

[andrewyhy]

Hell, you can play GTR2 with a keyboard...

I used to drive the F1 cars in GP3 with a mouse

👍

 

[Delphic Reason]

What other sort of physics are there?

Seriously?

Base physics can be altered to fit modes/vehicles/whatever. This is language that EA has used before to describe their different modes (drift/circuit/etc...), so this is nothing new. As I said before, I hope you're right. Yet, I'll believe it when I see it. EA has talked a lot before only to release a lackluster title (many times), so I think I'm being quite realistic.

Don't be so damn cynical! The people actually MAKING the game engine and physics have a pretty good pedigree, and they are asking the right people for their feedback. The way I see it, as long as EA are only allowed to design the frontend stuff and handle the music licensing, this is going to be great.

There's no reason to get angry at me. I'm being cynical because the history of games has made me cynical (and just about every other seasoned gamer).

The dev team is good, but I'm not quite so sure about their pedigree. I have played all the GTR games, and there are a large number of issues I find with them, in particular regards to the physics. So, just having this dev team on board, does not automatically make for an awesome game.

The way I see it, as long as EA are only allowed to design the frontend stuff and handle the music licensing, this is going to be great.

Sure, but you nor anyone else actually knows exactly what EA is contributing, so until we do, speculate away.

 

[RacerPaul]

You do realize that PD designed GT5P to run perfectly when using a controller too, right?
It's actually the case for any console racing game, since most people playing it will be using
a controller, not a wheel.

yes indeed, that makes perfect sense. i only use my wheel when i'm in a competition, be it online or off

for general driving about and casual racing, i tilt back my recliner and use the pad

 

[peter_vod69]

I used to drive the F1 cars in GP3 with a mouse

👍

It's really NOT a good idea to do so, just saying you can is all. I tell you what, throttle control coming out of the hairpin at Spa in a 600hp Corvette is a little, erm, "lacking"...

 

[myke6699]

Seriously?

Base physics can be altered to fit modes/vehicles/whatever. This is language that EA has used before to describe their different modes (drift/circuit/etc...), so this is nothing new. As I said before, I hope you're right. Yet, I'll believe it when I see it. EA has talked a lot before only to release a lackluster title (many times), so I think I'm being quite realistic.




There's no reason to get angry at me. I'm being cynical because the history of games has made me cynical (and just about every other seasoned gamer).

The dev team is good, but I'm not quite so sure about their pedigree. I have played all the GTR games, and there are a large number of issues I find with them, in particular regards to the physics. So, just having this dev team on board, does not automatically make for an awesome game.



Sure, but you nor anyone else actually knows exactly what EA is contributing, so until we do, speculate away.

I'm not trying to be ass but it would be great if you'd elaborate a bit on the problem you find with GTR and GTR2 (GTR Evo as you may already know is developed entirely by Simbin, not Blimey Games). I'm not familiar with the first GTR but GTR2 has its wart and one of them being that it's tire simulation is quite poor especially compared to LFS or rFactor. Probably why you can't quite execute a proper countersteering hence drifting is downright impossible. After all this game is almost 4 years old and that's why with SHIFT, SMS clearly said that the physics engine has been worked from the ground up. If this was EA who said it, I wouldn't give it a second thought. There's a great interview with Ian Bell from SMS on Drivingitalia and one on AutoSimSport. It's in Vol 5 Issue 1.

 

[peter_vod69]

I'm not trying to be ass but it would be great if you'd elaborate a bit on the problem you find with GTR and GTR2 (GTR Evo as you may already know is developed entirely by Simbin, not Blimey Games). I'm not familiar with the first GTR but GTR2 has its wart and one of them being that it's tire simulation is quite poor especially compared to LFS or rFactor. Probably why you can't quite execute a proper countersteering hence drifting is downright impossible. After all this game is almost 4 years old and that's why with SHIFT, SMS clearly said that the physics engine has been worked from the ground up. If this was EA who said it, I wouldn't give it a second thought. There's a great interview with Ian Bell from SMS on Drivingitalia and one on AutoSimSport. It's in Vol 5 Issue 1.

GTR2 has basically the same engine as GT Legends right? Powerslides or "drifting" was most definitely NOT impossible in that game. The Mustangs and Falcons were especially good at it! I think it was just harder in GTR2 because the cars were less forgiving beyond the limit, although I had a setup for the Ferrari 360 that involved a fair bit of power oversteer...

 

[McLaren]

If you could drift in GTR2, you know you either played that game way too much, or had a lot of skill.