Need for speed gets "serious".....confirmed!

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How many cars have you driven so far? The slower cars at the beginning do seem to have weak FF. Later on though when you start getting faster, and faster cars, the FF will start to make your arms work more and more. I just got done with a 3 lap race on the Spa with a real race car and my forearms are pretty worn out.

It all depends on if it's Front wheel, rear wheel, or AWD on how the FF works. It's the first game I've played that each car really has a completely different feal with the steering wheels weight and FF.

Maybe I'm crazy and imagining things, but that's how it's seemed so far for me.
The online seems pretty good from the 1 race I've had. No lag at all, and it was a pretty decent race for the first 2 laps, until I completely ruined myself and got beat by 5 seconds.

Might be that way. I've only driven about 3 cars, nothing high powered.

I agree with the different feelings between the drivetrains. I turned off all assists on the test lap with the BMW and found my self spinning out. So I have to be more careful with rear wheel. I just floor it for front wheels lol.
 
Though I suppose it's hardly news anymore, I just found a Speedhunters Article in which he takes an E39 BMW and a BMW 135i to the Nordeschliefe. I'm feeling too lazy to copy all the tasty pictures into here, but this pretty much saummarizes the article:

I_jizz_in_my_pants_by_HOLIMOUNT.jpg
 
OK. Here's the Biggles Quick Review (this is after only about 3 hours of playing with only a couple of cars - tried Silverstone, Spa, Road America &, of course a few laps of the Nordschleife).

No doubt about it: SHIFT is a sim masquerading as an arcade game. All the GRID-like whizz-bang conceals the fact that with Pro mode & no assists, there is an excellent underlying physics model.

It doesn't feel like GT5P - there's more sense of weight transfer than Prologue, & especially, unlike Prologue, it's easy to lock the brakes & upset the balance of the car under aggressive braking, which means that early braking is rewarded. 👍 Running around the Nordschleife it actually reminded me quite a bit of Enthusia. The other thing that reminded me of Enthusia was the blizzard of number crunching after each race - kind of ridiculous & unnecessary IMO, but their attempt to make the racing more of a "game" I suppose. :indiff:

The FFB is not as descriptive as FC, & I wish it could be made a bit stronger, but all-in-all is pretty good. The cars understeer a good bit & countersteering is a big part of the driving model, & again unlike GT5P, there is a good feel for the countersteering. The cars do bounce up & down a bit, unlike the rather sterile steering in GT5P, but I really wish the FFB would kick appropriately on the bumps, the way it does in F1CE - it would really add the finishing touch to the sense of immersion.

I found the graphics a bit disappointing - somehow less impressive than the way they look in a lot of the videos we've seen. The cockpit view is very good, but other than that, the graphics, while very good, are definitely not at GT's level of sophistication (or even, I suspect Forza 3's) . The replays, in particular, are not that convincing. All this is largely unimportant to me, but anyone expecting ground-breaking realism in the graphics will be a bit disappointed I think. On the other hand, I do like the "speed" effects - I think they work pretty well, but I do wish they were combined with more bumping & kicking from the FFB.

No idea how online is going to play out, but from what I've seen so far, SHIFT is a very good sim-oriented game with serious physics, certainly offering GT5 some serious competition. One thing I would point out, is that all those pre-release videos with terrible driving really misrepresent what the game is about. I'm guessing they were all done with non-Pro physics, assists & AI on "Easy". With the AI on "Hard" I had to work hard to keep up with the AI around the Nordschleife & there was none of that ridiculous banging & bumping going on.

From what I've seen so far, I give SHIFT the Biggles seal of approval. 👍👍

Jeff: if you're disappointed, it may be because you're not feelin' it yet! It's quite different from FC/SCC, just like FC is quite different from GT5P. It always takes a while to get dialed into the different feel - I think that's the reason so many GT fanboys just gave up on FC in disgust. It's only when you start pushing the car to the limits that you can really get a clear sense for the depth of the physics.
 
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Well I've been playing now for a while and I gotta say, it's a fun game, but just a few things:


- Does anyone else have an issue using a DFP? I spent a while fiddling with settings and never seemed to get it to feel good. Mainly its this huge deadzone when driving more or less straight. Removed d-zone and its still very much there. Also FFB is a bit weak even at (10). Someone please tell me its far better with a g25:nervous:


-Gave up and figured i'd atleast test out the d-pad. Not bad, but still feeling controllability issues. It's either numb and vague/floaty feeling or with sensitivity turned up way too twitchy. Perhaps I'm not used to it


-Physics are: pretty darn good in the sense the tires are truly responding to the road in a believable way. Cars hop over undulations and curbs. Get light over crests and come down realistically. Also suspension tuning seems to have a very tangible effect on car balance which is awsome. Play with roll bars and you'll notice it. And yet something feels floaty and strangely forza2 ish about it all. This may be the fact that I'm not quite comfortable with the whole dynamic of the cars yet, or maybe the dfp just sucks for this game?


-Graphics are anywhere from pretty good to no that great. Again something really reminds me of forza2. Photo mode shot look great, but cars are not that stunning to me.


-As cool as cockpit view is I've started just using bumper/ or hood cam as wheel animation is'nt even close to matching what you're doing. It's pretty lame actually


-I'm experiencing FRAME DROP around certain tracks and it's very distracting. Seems to be bad around willow.



Any thoughts?

I played up to driver level 10 (I'm a precision driver, not aggressive ;)) yesterday and I have the EXACT same gripes about the game as you... I did however get my DFP working right by putting the steering sensitivity to about 95% and high speed steering sensitivity to about 25% or 30%... and no dead zone... FFB on 10. Now the DFP feels a bit better and that giant dead zone is gone... Also if you go to the tuning menu you can adjust steering lock.. this also helps rid the DFP of that monsterous deadzone...

Physics- I found the Physics quite weird in the beginning... took a good hour to really get use to... Ive never played GTR2 or GT Legends which many people say it drives like... but once you get the hang of it, you realise that the physics are modelled very well... You feel/see all the bumps in the road, the steering goes light going up hills and crests and playing in PRO mode with no assists if you brake to hard you lock up hard and fight for control... :) Nice touch in my opinion... I have not tried drifting yet so I cannot say much about that...

Graphics- For me this was the major drawback... Guess I will try and get the PC version as well just because of this... When I got the game I looked at the back and saw only 720P which disappointed me... I thought it was going to run at 1080P... They are, however, not bad... the graphics are ok and the models look pretty good as well... but no where near where GT5 is at the moment... It's really a mix between sim and arcade.... but executed quite well...

- I also, just like you, dont understand the steering animations in the cockpit... they dont match what youre doing AT ALL... it has like 30 degrees of travel or something... which makes cockpit view lame... even though I really want to drive with cockpit I reverted to bumper in the end because the steering animations were annoying me...

Gameplay- THIS is where is game shines... the mixture of GREAT sound, good physics and the arcade style HUD and point system give a nice overall experience.... When the cars get faster it really gets to be edge-of-your-seat racing... The sense of speed is mind boggling sometimes and I do like the cockpit blur when you get up to high speeds... nice effect to enhance the overall sense of speed...

Tuning- This area of the game is a bit simple and I still have to get use to it... I am not a big fan of the slider style options, but once I get use to it I think I'll manage... the only that REALLY bothers me here is you can't tune while youre in an event/race... You have to exit the whole race, go to my cars, bring up the tuning menu, do what you need to do and then go back and load the WHOLE race again... and this EVERYTIME... because no one gets the settings right in one go... so this is one point which for me REALLY needs to improve... I dont want to exit the race everytime to make subtle change here and there only to load up the whole race again... (Which does take long... loading times are not short for this game.. )

All in all, a good GAME.. I emphasize the word game... because to me its more a game then a full feldged sim... The physics make it feel like a sim, but everything around it just screams Need for Speed... so a very fine attempt bringing together good sim racing with the arcade type look to it... Dont get me wrong.. I really enjoy the game, but its not really in the same league as GT or Forza...
 
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... The physics make it feel like a sim, but everything around it just screams Need for Speed...

I think this quote ultimately sums up my feeling after playing last night for about 4 hours. I started to write a review and found that after a few paragraphs, my thoughts sounded overwhelmingly negative and that's not really the impression I want to give because it does plenty of things right. Speed is a play in contradictions. As others have said, it has the heart of a Sim masquerading itself as an arcade game. And unfortunately at times, it has the effect of a 3 Ring Circus playing right in your face, with the clowns doing a juggling act in your peripheral vision and seemingly distracting you from the task at hand.

I want to make a few disclaimers before getting into my review. I sit in front of a 55 inch, 1080P, Plasma TV and I play with a G25. So my comments on the visuals may seem a bit harsh. My goal was to start right from the beginning in PRO mode with no assists and dive into things head first without a parachute.

The (PS3 version) automatically installs itself on the PS3 the first time you load it. The process takes about 10 minutes and uses a little over 3GB. A cautionary remark--it hangs for about 2-3 minutes at the 99% mark but it doesn't freeze so don't panic.

Once the game is installed, you're treated to this opening video:


I was impressed with this video the first time I saw it. Much less so with it playing on the screen in front of me and it became readily apparent that if you really want the photo-realistic looking images and game play that we've seem on some of these HD videos, you'll be buying the PC version. At 720P, looking at comparable screen shots between the Xbox360 and PS3, you're hard pressed to tell the difference. But you can clearly notice a difference between the PC version graphics. It's not to say the graphics are "poor". Some of the tacks are beautifully rendered. But over-all, they simply did not live up to my expectations. I was expecting a rival to GT5P and it isn't.

One nit-pick which kind of set me off was that it did not automatically recognize my wheel, even though it was plugged into port 1. I have an old USB keyboard plugged into port two and being a Mac keyboard, it has two additional USB ports built in, for which I normally attach my controller (also assigned to port 2) and I use the other port to charge my headset when not in use. Just like with the Dirt 2 Demo, after several attempts, the only way I could get the game to recognize my wheel was to restart it from the XMB and unplug my keyboard from port 2. Prologue works fine. Ferrari Challenge works fine. Supercar Challenge works fine. I don't see why this is such a challenge for developers. (Sorry--here comes the negativity again--down boy, down!)

But since I'm already on the subject, the game does recognize the G25 but there's only one configuration available. And neither of the buttons on the wheel itself are mapped or mappable. So if I want to change views or look back, I HAVE to use the buttons on the shifter. I hope this is something they address in a future patch. Those with a similar itch, might want to wander over here and offer your thoughts. But I'm happy to say that the shifter does work in H pattern and there is an option to use the clutch. And yes you can stall. ;)

Not being an active gamer outside of racing sims, I wasn't really familiar with the whole process of registering your game with EA and your EA friend list (which seems like the PSN list with a different font) but I was able to merge my recently created Ea account with my PSN ID and log in. Once that's done the game forces you to have a 'try out' race with an E46 BMW at the Brand Hatch Indy circuit. The first time around you don't have an option to adjust the settings. Shifting was automatic, the racing line was on, the car felt a bit 'odd'. After the first lap you can adjust the settings. I put it into full pro mode and tried it again.

Biggles, you're right. I do need to get used to it. It feels quite different again from the games I'm used to and it took me about 3 laps to develop a feel for it. The brakes are very sensitive and without ABS, you can easily lock them with a good jab, even if you don't press the pedal all the way to the floor. The FFB is pretty good and you have a good feeling going over curbs and it gets lighter when you crest hills or get a little air. But in general the car seems to transition constantly between oversteer and understeer with nothing in between. By the end of the night, I was able to overcome this slightly by just being more sensitive with my steering and throttle inputs but I think it's still a little extreme and lacks the precision of GT5P and the sense of weight transfer from FC/SCC. But it has a unique style all it's own that I probably just have to get used to.

After this first race, the game judges you and gives you some credits to buy your first "Tier 1" car. Four tiers are available and unless you unlock the tiers by earning points in various different ways, you can't 'buy' cars from the higher tiers. I chose a VW GTI as my first car as I figured a neutral front driver would give me a good place to start. The game allows you to change the color, add livery options or choose a 'sponsored livery' for your car. There are also tuning adjustments and performance mods you can buy or add.

Rather than starting my carer, I jumped right into 'single race', chose Spa and did a few laps to familiarize myself with the car and the track. The track is beautifully rendered, if not quite as impressive as the PC version. And I thought it was great that you can knock over cones or styrofoam cubes and they'll sit there on the track.

image


Images like the one above can be taken during the Replay mode after the race. Photos are not saved on the PS3 but automatically uploaded to your account on Needforspeed.com. BTW, if this photo is too large or annoying I"ll take it down but it's in native resolution so I thought it was a good example to put up. It looks pretty nice here. But when it's scaled up to fit a 55" TV....hmmm....yeah.

I saw one of my buddies was online and playing Shift so I invited him for an on-line race. As previously mentioned, the game does allow you to choose the car, track, conditions, number of players (up to 8), etc. And one thing that's nice is it allows you to drive 'select' other cars in an on-line race even if you don't own them. So you get to try them out. I did about 5 races with Solidmic (thanks my friend) all at Spa, in the VW, Mazda RX8, Lamborghini and Maserati MC12. The faster cars really give you a sense of speed in an amazing way. I liked the cockpit view but the blur effect did get annoying in that you couldn't see your shift points or mirrors. I switched to bonnet view and realized there were no mirrors (sorry solidmic). LOL.

Back in the lobby, the clock is always running. You have two minutes to choose your options and car and the race starts. You can start the race early if everybody is ready but otherwise, ready or not, after two minutes you're racing. So no long time to think, no in-lobby tunning, and no extended pre-post race chats. But there IS live chat in the lobby and during the race (thank goodness) although even with just one other person, I found it a bit spotty.

The racing itself though was smooth and lag free. In fact, it was some of the best on-line I had ever experienced. No bouncing, disappearing cars from Ferrari Challenge, no wild swerving and blinking from F1:CE, no wilding flailing cars from Prologue--just smooth, stable, crystal clear tracking. Now granted, there were only two of us in the lobby but it was really well executed and for all my other complaints about this game, it's one feature which really shines.

Unfortunately, it's a little hard to see because things are popping up in the HUD non-stop the entire time, like ducks in a shooting gallery. And the points system is ridiculous beyond the pale. You get points for seemingly everything. You're on the racing line: point. You're drafting another car: point. You took that corner very well: point. You ran off the track: point. You hit a wall: point. OK, I'm exaggerating but you get the...point. And instead of being able to just race, the HUD is a constant hodgepodge of information being thrown at you, non-stop. There's an option to minimize it and I'll have to try it.

It's still hard for me to quantify this game because I have to come to terms with what it is and check and balance what my expectations were. I'll try to play more tonight and maybe I'll be a bit more enthusiastic. As Biggles, suggests, maybe I just need to get used to it and get a feel for the physics. It really has some impressive features and some good things going for it. But the overall impression I was left with after a few hours, was that this game would have been a lot better if the SMS guys had just controlled everything in house and EA had kept their hands off of it.

As Solidmic said in the lobby last night, "It's not SIM enough to please the hardcore sim guys and it's not arcade enough to please the traditional NFS guys. So it's going to end up alienating both". I think there's a danger trying to be all things to all people. And we may be seeing it here.

More to come. Right now, I'm still on the fence.
 
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Cheers jjaisla...although you may have not been in the right frame of mind and slept on it maybe tonight, without unwanted distractions (hope the family feels better today), you'll have more fun with it.

From what you say above I'm not too worried about the visuals...they look good enough from what I've seen...but I'm still a bit concerned about the over-the-top presentation and physics. Be good to hear your impression regarding high-powered cars as you use them more.

Career mode sounds a bit naff too. Accumulating points in ways you mentioned seems to be too easy...as in whatever happens it'll reward you.

Anyway...read you later.
 
Thanks Jeff, as usual a very interesting read, I'm about to nominate you my official games reviewer. Looking forward for the completion of your review :)

Hope your wife and daughter are better today 👍

Still, have one small question about game features : did you find out if it's possible to throw AI cars in the mix of a online race, to fill the empty grid slots?
 
@jjaisli

I believe you forgot to mention that the points are split into Precision points an Aggression points which are used to decide what type of racer you are.... Precision is for clean racing, ie clean overtakes, racing line, going through corners at speed and Aggression is for aggressive racer, ie dirty overtakes, drafting, trading paint. I think in the end that system will work out ok for online stuff and you can be matched with like minded players... havent tried it so I might be talking crap now... :P
 
I hope this review makes sense. I did it off and on over the course of a few hours as my daughter was up every hour during the night with a high fever. So I didn't get much sleep. And in a twist of irony, I'm home with her today but I won't be getting much gaming time in. :)

As far as I know Mario, you can NOT add any AI cars into the mix during an on-line race. At least I didn't see any way to do so.

After reading through my own post, I guess I just found there is so much constantly going on in the game that trying to drive, I found it all a bit 'distracting'. And I found the physics to be a bit 'odd'. I understand why you constantly see cars driving all over the road with inexperienced players on YouTube. I didn't feel immediately comfortable with it. But I'll keep plugging away. I'm not giving up on it.

But I can tell you Solidmic is renting it. And he's already decided that he's NOT buying it.
 
@jjaisli

I believe you forgot to mention that the points are split into Precision points an Aggression points which are used to decide what type of racer you are.... Precision is for clean racing, ie clean overtakes, racing line, going through corners at speed and Aggression is for aggressive racer, ie dirty overtakes, drafting, trading paint. I think in the end that system will work out ok for online stuff and you can be matched with like minded players... havent tried it so I might be talking crap now... :P

Yes, that's absolutely correct. I'm currently on level 10 (out of 50) with my limited few hours of play and I'm split about 70/30 Precision/Aggression. But to be honest, watching how the points are calculated and accumulated as you race, unless you're a complete moron, I can't see how anybody could have more aggression than precision points. If you see anybody who's listed as an 'aggressive' driver, stay the hell away. :lol:
 
Great review jjaisla, you explained (and confirmed) pretty much everything I was thinking in detail thanks. 👍
 
Since I'll be playing it with a joystick I think I'll enjoy this game. If it was to much of a sim it would require a wheel, and I have no money for that right now.
 
As far as I know Mario, you can NOT add any AI cars into the mix during an on-line race. At least I didn't see any way to do so.

:ouch:

Why, but WHY don't I get any game on the PS3 with half the online options Toca Race Driver 3 ONLINE had on a PS2 ?!?!?!?!

It was so much fun if you had a lobby with few racers and choose AI cars to fill the grid and set that the human players would start at the back, needing to work their way up during the race.


EDIT: to clarify, and as far as I know, only V8 Superstars has this feature in the PS3 ...
 
BTW, I do want to clarify something. I think I've maybe been overly harsh on my criticism of the graphics. They're really, VERY nice. And much, MUCH better than Supercar Challenge. But I think my expectations were overblown by seeing all of these wonderful high-resolutions shots of Shift from the PC version, which appears to be on another level completely. And I think I'm rather disappointed to see that the developer chose to present this game in 720p (probably to save on development costs in conjunction with the Xbox360 version) rather than in 1080p.

Had I never seen any screen shots or videos from Shift I would be very, VERY impressed.
 
:ouch:

Why, but WHY don't I get any game on the PS3 with half the online options Toca Race Driver 3 ONLINE had on a PS2 ?!?!?!?!

It was so much fun if you had a lobby with few racers and choose AI cars to fill the grid and set that the human players would start at the back, needing to work their way up during the race.


EDIT: to clarify, and as far as I know, only V8 Superstars has this feature in the PS3 ...

The only thing I can think of is that if one sets the number of players higher than the number in the lobby, maybe you can add AI cars in. But I don't think so. At least not in this mode. As come to think of it, when Solidmic was in the lobby, I had it set for '2' players. I'll give it a try.

Well, at some point. LOL!

BTW there are options with the on-line where you can run ranked (meaning times posted to the leaderboard) and unranked races. A neat idea.

And the game has some nice touches. When speaking during a race a flag comes up with the name of the person who's talking. (Of course at that point you can't even see the road through the HUD anymore). :lol:
 
The game appears to be everything that Race Driver Grid should have been from what I've seen and read. I'll wait for the demo and be sure to give it a try but I can only see myself buying this if;

A- SuperCar Challenge ends up not floating my boat
B - GT5 only comes out in 2010
or C - the demo is that good that purchasing it is a no brainer.
 
To anyone who currently has Shift on PS3; Will we be able to edit the button configuration on a standard hand controller?
I need to have the controller settings similar to the layout of Gran Turismo. I really can't stand using R2/L2 for accelerator and brakes, like in Pro Street.
 
To anyone who currently has Shift on PS3; Will we be able to edit the button configuration on a standard hand controller?

And if it's not freely assignable, could someone post those button configurations that are available?

I'd personally like to have acceleration/brake in R2/L2 and gears up/down in R1/L1.
 
To anyone who currently has Shift on PS3; Will we be able to edit the button configuration on a standard hand controller?
I need to have the controller settings similar to the layout of Gran Turismo. I really can't stand using R2/L2 for accelerator and brakes, like in Pro Street.


Yes you can change the config. to use the right analog for gas/brake just as gt if you wish. In trying to get a more precise feel when using the d-pad you might try these settings which may (or may not:) help)

options menu:

steering deadzone: 2%

accelerator/brake deadzone: 12%

steering sensitivity: 0%

accelerator/brake sense.: 0%

speed steering sens.: 100%


then go to tuning and change steering lock up to: 48.0


Again this is what feels close what I was used to with gt5p so it may help you also.


As for button configs. I believe they're presets to go through. Not sure if you can just assign any function to any button that is....
 
Hmm dose not sound good, might have to change the thread title back again LOL From what I'm hearing this sounds like Grid? I can't belive it is, but there seems to be a steady supply of reviews from people saying it's basicly a sim trapped in an arcade game with no way of getting out. I hoped Pro mode would get rid of all sim aspects but it seems not Ho hum Forza 3 on the horizon.
 
As for button configs. I believe they're presets to go through. Not sure if you can just assign any function to any button that is....

That’s a real shame. But as Vompatti mentioned, is someone able to post the exact default/pre-assigned controller configurations?
I’m hoping for something I’ve grown custom with over the past 12 years:

x – Accelerate
Square – Brake
Circle – Hand Brake

L2/R2 – Gear up/down.
 
@jjaisli

I believe you forgot to mention that the points are split into Precision points an Aggression points which are used to decide what type of racer you are.... Precision is for clean racing, ie clean overtakes, racing line, going through corners at speed and Aggression is for aggressive racer, ie dirty overtakes, drafting, trading paint. I think in the end that system will work out ok for online stuff and you can be matched with like minded players... havent tried it so I might be talking crap now... :P


I ran 6 different races online with people rated from level 13 down to level 6 and all had high precision points, all but one race was nothing but a crash fest with rammers and people cutting the track, and one was so bad I had to quit. It's very easy to rack up precision points and I'm concerned this may skew the matching process.

I'm going to run some online races again today to see if I just happened to end up with bad or inexperienced racers, or if that's what I can expect each time I run an open race when I can't race in private rooms
 
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Hmm dose not sound good, might have to change the thread title back again LOL From what I'm hearing this sounds like Grid? I can't belive it is, but there seems to be a steady supply of reviews from people saying it's basicly a sim trapped in an arcade game with no way of getting out. I hoped Pro mode would get rid of all sim aspects but it seems not Ho hum Forza 3 on the horizon.


I assume you mean pro mode would get rid of all arcade aspects?:lol:

It does, but to a certain extent. It's enough to make someone without sim experience feel they're getting that experience, but for someone who has they might notice a sort of threshold where the physics are holding back where the sim "could" go and inserting a sort of 'sim-cade' alternative so things don't get too serious. Still shift is far, far more realistic than grid imo.

Hope this makes sense.
 
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That’s a real shame. But as Vompatti mentioned, is someone able to post the exact default/pre-assigned controller configurations?
I’m hoping for something I’ve grown custom with over the past 12 years:

x – Accelerate
Square – Brake
Circle – Hand Brake

L2/R2 – Gear up/down.

I am another one who has grown accustom to this configuration, I would like to know too otherwise I'll probably get the game for the 360.
 
Don't have much time... but just want to repeat: this IS a game with good physics (closer to Enthusia than anything else I've tried, but with good PS3 graphics, in-car view, better AI & collision physics etc.). Compared to the U tube videos we've seen the graphics are not as good, but the physics/AI is much better.

The Aggression driving points = BAD driving (although I suppose some people might develop skills at driving that way! :dopey:)

They've thrown a bone to GRID drivers in style, but fundamentally ITS A SIM. Perhaps a way of appealing to everyone...

And it's got the RING! :)
 
hmm lots of vairying impressions of the physics. I think I'll wait until everyones got a good few hours and got a few cars in there garage and see what there saying then.
 
OK Blitz/jjaisli, no mention of A.I.

What's it like...good, bad or ugly? Competitive or restrained? On rails or adaptive?

The AI is quite good... They get in front of you if they see youre going to try a pass and are aware of where you are. They do however get dirty sometimes sneaking up the inside before entering a corner if you leave a bit too much space and that gets annoying, but from my experience so far they seem pretty smart compared to other games... And definately not as retarded as the AI in GT. More like SCC/FC AI, but not as in-depth... I also prefer the AI in FC or SCC...

I ran 6 different races online with people rated from level 13 down to level 6 and all had high precision points, all but one race was nothing but a crash fest with rammers and people cutting the track, and one was so bad I had to quit. It's very easy to rack up precision points and I'm concerned this may skew the matching process.

I'm going to run some online races again today to see if I just happened to end up with bad or inexperienced racers, or if that's what I can expect each time I run an open race when I can't race in private rooms

I see... As I said in my previous post I havent tried Online yet so I could be speaking rubbish... and from the looks of it maybe I am :) I'll have to have a go online tonight and see for myself...
 
The I've got Shift thread seems to have a lot more positive reviews so far...

The review on gametrailers I watched said and showed that the hud could be turned off and drive a clean interior view like you would in real life, are you sure you haven't missed it in options at all?

Also is there anywhere that has a track and car list?
 
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