Need for speed gets "serious".....confirmed!

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LIL_KACHING
I have a Camaro SS (Stage 2 everything) and it bounces on the track like hell.
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It will even out when you get to stage 3 :D once I got stage 3 parts on it, it totally changed how the car behaved... Atleast it felt that way...
 
Are you speaking of comparision to real life or GT5P? GT5P has its flaws too, but far less obvious.

To me GT5P has improved greatly over GT4, which was really unrealistic. But still has flaws in low speed physics and drifting and is sometimes snappier than real life. But when not messing too much, it resembles a real car handling really well. There's also a reason why some games/simulators start to feel similar. LFS, Enthusia, iRacing, Forza , GT5P etc. Many developers are already starting to do really realistic physics, and it's pretty obvious there will be very similar among some of the best games.
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To me, GT5P is very accurate within the limitations of the physics model it has created. In other words, there is a lot of detail & great consistency in the handling of the cars. However, there are some serious shortcomings:

Braking is way too easy - no matter what the speed, or gradient of the track, you can slam on the brakes with little in the way of resulting weight transfer issues.

There's not enough feel to the FFB.

While the graphics are first-rate, the presentation is too "clinical", which drains some of the atmosphere & excitement out of driving fast.

I haven't played Shift nearly enough to have a confirmed opinion on all its features, but I am confident enough to say it IS, at the least, a decent sim. BTW: I have played Enthusia quite recently & I find Shift closer to Enthusia than any other game I've tried. But I'm not sure the games that you list ARE all that similar in feel.

The larger question is: given how completely different the experience of virtual racing is compared to racing IRL, what does it mean to have "realistic" physics in a game? Is it possible that "exaggerating" certain aspects of the physics may actually create a closer equivalent to real world racing - the G-forces & the sense of danger & speed - than a more "accurate" & clinical presentation. I don't feel qualified to judge whether Shift is more or less comparable to RL racing in its physics than GT5P, but it IS pretty obvious that the driving requires finely tuned skills & is intended to be realistic in its approach to driving physics, so in that sense it's very definitely a "sim" rather than "arcade" driving game.

@jjaisli: yes, the amount of deadzone (especially with the wheel set on 900 degrees) is tricky. I guess the advantage of Shift being a large-scale production (unlike FC/SCC) may be that some attention will be paid to fixes & upgrades.
 
kamkor
Also try playing around with physics on low speeds, on higher speeds. Try doing drifting, 360s, donuts - basically testing the physics. Try doing circle drifts, 8 figure drifts.. It shows quite nicely that something is wrong.
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I've done this at the figure eight track with a 350z and mustang cobra(500+hp?). You can't spin or get into a reasonable drift over 60mph or so. I then took the cobra out to road america a let loose trying to drift out of corners and through the corousel right hander and all I could do was get the back end to step out a bit.

It's quite obvious there's un-defeatable traction control built into pro mode. It lets you get loose but never enough that it's not managable so this way you can mash the throttle, throw in some counter-steer and almost always gather it up making you feel a bit heroic:D

I realize what SMS were trying to do with this game and the physics and I think it's more intentional than flaws.
 
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Biggles
The larger question is: given how completely different the experience of virtual racing is compared to racing IRL, what does it mean to have "realistic" physics in a game?
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Modify your car a bit in real life to make it more driveable at limits. Go to airport, track. Drive on the limits, driver over the limits (ie. drifting) and you will get your answer. And if you still don't get your answer, then go to the track or airport again, and again.. Plus you will have tons of fun. :)

red7: 8 figures, circle drifts, playing around. It just all feels wrong with rwd car in shift. At least to me. Not sure if it's the hidden TC you are talking about. More like flawed physics. But someone mentioned that shift has config files on pc, so let's hope that modders can do some nice things with it. There surely is some potential.

I'm a person who likes to race, but also fool around with cars. And I love drifting too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS5RlPHitYU

It's also quite suprising that s14 in shift feels much worse than my now sold e30. S14 are well driftable in stock already too. And without drift mode physics that is. ;)
 
red7
I've done this at the figure eight track with a 350z and mustang cobra(500+hp?). You can't spin or get into a reasonable drift over 60mph or so. I then took the cobra out to road america a let loose trying to drift out of corners and through the corousel right hander and all I could do was get the back end to step out a bit.

It's quite obvious there's un-defeatable traction control built into pro mode. It lets you get loose but never enough that it's not managable so this way you can mash the throttle, throw in some counter-steer and almost always gather it up making you feel a bit heroic:D
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I do sense the "invisible" traction but to me it feels more like the contact between the pavement and the tires. There's the inherent trajectory in whichever way the front tires are pointed to and while in GT5P or even Forza there's very little sense of that ever happening. In GTR2, there's a little bit of that although to me it wasn't as refined as what I'm getting from SHIFT.

Another thing that I find interesting and refreshing is that if you were to take a stock car on well known real world track, the times you get is very close (usually slower) than what the RL cars would do. For example, Motortrend recently compared a few cars for their 2009 Best Driver's Car Competiton and the lap run was at Laguna Seca. Here's the Porsch Cayman:

[YOUTUBEHD]iGe8YXicbRM[/YOUTUBEHD]

The final time is around 1:43. When I take the stock Cayman from SHIFT and hit the same track, my current best is at 1:44.6. Had this been Forza 2, my time would be almost 10 seconds faster. My next assignment is to hit 7:26 with a stock Nissan R35 (non-SpecV) GTR. The best I can do at the moment (and I've riddden the Green Hell, millions of times) is 7:57s'.
 
Modify your car a bit in real life to make it more driveable at limits. Go to airport, track. Drive on the limits, driver over the limits (ie. drifting) and you will get your answer. And if you still don't get your answer, then go to the track or airport again, and again.. Plus you will have tons of fun.
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I currently own a Honda Odyssey & a Toyota Sienna... I don't think I will be taking either of them drifting any time soon! :dopey:

But you are not addressing what I see as major shortcomings in GT5P's physics. I'm not making the assumption that any of these "sims" are totally accurate, but I don't understand how you can think GT5P is when it has its own obvious deficiencies.

There's the inherent trajectory in whichever way the front tires are pointed to and while in GT5P or even Forza there's very little sense of that ever happening. In GTR2, there's a little bit of that although to me it wasn't as refined as what I'm getting from SHIFT.
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THAT'S the other problem with GT5P as I experience it. That's what FC provided (possibly exaggerated) & Shift also does, although with a different feel. GT5P feels a bit like driving on balls rather than tires - there's no "inherent trajectory" in the feel of the FFB.
 
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Biggles
I currently own a Honda Accord & a Toyota Sienna... I don't think I will be taking either of them drifting any time soon! :dopey:

But you are not addressing what I see as major shortcomings in GT5P's physics. I'm not making the assumption that any of these "sims" are totally accurate, but I don't understand how you can think GT5P is when it has its own obvious deficiencies.
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You can still drive your Accord on the limits though. Hondas are fun to drive too aren't they? :)

GT physics were never a standard to me. Same for LFS, Forza and many other racing games. The standard is real life. I have only said that GT5P has made great improvement from GT4 and is actually feeling like driving a real car now. More or less. Shift just feels very off to me, car doesn't react like I'm used to from real life. I can only describe shift physics as "hollywood style sim" to maybe make it less boring for casual market, but less of a sim at the same time.

GT5P has shortcomings just like you said. Low speed physics are bugged, drifting is bugged, things are too snappy. But to me it feels much better than Shift. I also see that you seem to be very focused on braking. As for braking, I didn't focus my attention that much on it, when testing gt5p at friends place. It's not like braking in real life is hard, and as long as pedals in rwd car are well placed you can do heel and toe easily, which makes braking even easier. The harderst part of braking to me is the timing and knowing WHEN to brake. At that I don't consider myself very good unfortunately. I respect highly those who can really feel the "WHEN" moment during racing.

And I don't want to complain too much about GT5P, since it is gtplanet forum and I noticed that if people complain too much about gt5p, then they are considered fanboys.

Hovewer, if I would have to compare simulators. Then:

shift (well not really a sim) << rfactor (crap) << gt5p (feels like driving a car) << forza/lfs (definitely better behaviour than gt5p over the limits) < iracing (great, but expensive).

or :

shift << rfactor << gt5p << forza < lfs < iracing.

or:

shift << rfactor << gt5p < forza < lfs < iracing.

Anyway, if you are finding shift realistic, fun. Then its good for you. Maybe shift has done right something in physics that is very important to you. :) But it does things wrong in physics elements that are important to me. That's why I don't like it. But I'm happy that you like it. I really wanted to enjoy it as well, I just can't. :(
 
So, I think I'm going to get SHIFT today. Judging by peoples reactions it seems fairly good. I'm still going back and forth on getting it though. I don't know if I should or not.
 
You can still drive your Accord on the limits though
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Corrected that - it's an Odyssey, not an Accord. Minivans totally rule! ;)

Seems like everyone has a different evaluation of the various games. The problem with braking in GT5P is you can slam the brakes on without unsettling the car at all. This takes a major part of the driving complexity out of the equation IMO.

I haven't spent nearly enough time with Shift to have a really detailed opinion, but I like what I've seen so far. I still think any game just makes approximations of real world physics. I've really enjoyed playing F1CE. It's a great recreation of F1 racing with challenging physics & great visuals, but I'm under no illusion that it's actually equivalent to driving a real F1 Car - it's simply not possible to do that with a $250 wheel set, a console/PC & $60 worth of software. I'll settle for deep, challenging physics, immersive visuals/sound, & decent AI/online functionality. Shift does seem to provide the first two of those, I'll find out more about the AI/online this weekend...
 
At a previous job I had, one of our company cars was a Honda Odyssey.
I believe it was an '06 model. I can speak from experience--you better respect the van as they say :dopey: It registered something like 140--160 on the speedometer, and it was very sporty...for a minivan :)

It also had extremely comfortable seats too 👍
 
Anyway faced issues with really bumpy cars? I faced this problem 3 times, in the invitational events. The cars were the Mclaren F1, Carrera GT and the Koenisegg. Just going at high speeds even on a straight road will cause these cars to jump and bounce similar to a bouncing ball, no kidding. They are almost undrivable and u can't even steer the car when they are in their "bounce trance".

There are no settings to adjust too since its invitational and u can't adjust suspension settings to counter these bouncing.

Anyway to overcome these problems?
 
Any good G25 steering wheel settings for drifting?

I'm driving the S14 and having NO luck drifting OR controlling the car when it loses traction, and have played around with the steering but still no luck. I have all of the pro settings on, only aid is that ABS is on.

PS: I can usually rank under 50 in any car, on any track in GT5P for drifting (all pro settings).
 
^ to add to that, I drive an S14 in real life...doesn't feel anything like it. Although, the SR does sound realistic (have a KA24DE in mine, but had an SR in my old 180sx).
 
just 2 vids I made this afternoon ( after lot of try to configure my G25 :crazy:)

Bugatti veyron - Nordschleiffe

Pagani Zonda R - Nordschleiffe

 
So what settings are the majority using fir the G25? Would like to get rid of the "see-saw" effect that occurs occasionally.
 
JamboGT
So what settings are the majority using fir the G25? Would like to get rid of the "see-saw" effect that occurs occasionally.
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What's your steering angle at the moment? Lower values decrease the deadzone.
 

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