New DLC Free Car and Update 2.02

[SlipZtrEm]

Alright, the derogatory "fanboy" being tossed around with increasing frequency in here means much like the FM vs GT thread, it's now being treated as an abusive comment, and warnings/infractions will be handed out. If you can't argue someone's point past calling them a name, expect points.

Okay,
Bitching aside (Now I know why i stay in the photomode forums...)
Who wants to take bets on the size ? Winner get's fully tuned GT86 ?
I'm guessing 1.3GB

It's a much happier, calmer place, isn't it?
I don't think 2.00 was even that big, and that included all the DLC cars and the tracks. So my guess on this patch is... 368mb. That should more than cover 5 new cars and the other stuff 👍

 

[Tornado]

Dude, what the hell?

This is turning into some low-brow sports team "debate". It doesn't matter that they tried their hardest, they still didn't "win".

You haven't been paying attention. The claim being made is that any shortcomings with current/future DLC are justified because PD is shortstaffed.

Why is that a justification for the DLC that has been delivered so far when the option to expand the staff exists (and was in fact supposedly the reason that PD moved to their new offices)? Why is it necessary to paint Turn 10 as the bad guys because they actually took the necessary steps to expand their manpower to meet content demands, but PD as the good guys because they didn't (and therefore can't)?




This isn't "they tried their hardest, but that wasn't good enough so screw them." This is "they knew they wouldn't be able to do it, knew what options they could have taken to do it, apparently didn't take any of those options but we should be okay with that anyway."

 

[omgitsbees]

Forza4 carried 410 cars and tracks from previous games except Porsche cars, NY, other track name is forgot . Added 5 new tracks and some 100 odd cars and the funny thing they are selling that seperately via DLC

PD should not even look at them. GT6 need more than 5 new tracks and more cars, features on the disk

People keep pointing this out like it only applies to Forza. Polyphony brought over 900+ something cars from previous games. And most of them were horrible quality. At least with Forza 3 and 4, all of the cars were updated and look next gen. How does that fit into your argument now?

Alright, the derogatory "fanboy" being tossed around with increasing frequency in here means much like the FM vs GT thread, it's now being treated as an abusive comment, and warnings/infractions will be handed out. If you can't argue someone's point past calling them a name, expect points.

Tell people to start posting some content then. Why aren't you coming down on Amar for this post? How is quoting me with the only thing being said "I am speechless" at all acceptable? How does that add anything to this thread?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Tell people to start posting some content then. Why aren't you coming down on Amar for this post? How is quoting me with the only thing being said "I am speechless" at all acceptable? How does that add anything to this thread?

You obviously don't know who Amar is.

He's like a God around here...

 

[omgitsbees]

You obviously don't know who Amar is.

He's like a God around here...

So I just want to get clarification on this then, he is above the rules and is allowed to post whatever? I didn't know that.

 

[gtuned]

It's a much happier, calmer place, isn't it?
I don't think 2.00 was even that big, and that included all the DLC cars and the tracks. So my guess on this patch is... 368mb. That should more than cover 5 new cars and the other stuff 👍

That it is.
I think 2.0 was 2gb? I know it took me till 1 AM to download though. But 5 cars, fixes, maybe new rims... maybe some new untold stuff like bloom, loading screens... I'm going with 500-700MB now that i Think about it.

 

[Griffith500]

You haven't been paying attention. The claim being made is that any shortcomings with current/future DLC are justified because PD is shortstaffed.



Why is that a justification for anything when the option to expand the staff exists (and was in fact supposedly the reason that PD moved to their new offices)? Why is it necessary to paint Turn 10 as the bad guys because they actually took the necessary steps to expand their manpower to meet content demands, but PD as the good guys because they didn't (and therefore can't)?

How does any of that excuse the insanity of your post? Why bring yourself down to that level, by making equally polar claims? It really does seem that you're only interested in arguing!

Besides, it's only one claim. There are many common-sense posts in the thread already that don't have the kind of aggravated response you're exhibiting.

EDIT: Ah, stealth edit.

 

[CodeRedR51]

So I just want to get clarification on this then, he is above the rules and is allowed to post whatever? I didn't know that.

That's not what I said...

 

[omgitsbees]

That's not what I said...

What did you mean by that? I don't know how it could be interpreted any other way.

 

[pasigiri]

I don't get what logic you're using that makes you come to the conclusion that two months in between DLC with 4 cars that are just slight variations of vehicles already in the game, is aggressive and serious commitment. Turn-10 has put out 30 DLC cars since October 11th, all of them are unique and brand new to the game.

First off, have you ever done 3d modeling on the scale that PD and Turn10 do??? Second, while FM4's cars are VERY detailed and awesome looking, they aren't as good as GT5's cars. Remember, GT5's premium cars are actually "?low res?" versions of GT6 cars. Just look at the interior shot comparisons between GT5 and FM4, provided you own both. Third, the Scirocco, Golf R, and 86, are TOTALLY new. New as in, not just modeled, but physics as well. Everyone knows Kaz is a perfectionist and would not turn a blind I to that. Fourth, 110 people working on a game is NOT 10000 PEOPLE WORKING ON A GAME. Now I do agree with a comment stating that PD should look into hiring more people, specifically content modelers, but we don't know their budget and plans and all the Sony business that affects them.

My main point is, JUST IMAGINE IF PD HAD 10000+ employees. Their product would be awesome and yet there would STILL be someone whining. I just tried to put it nicely.

Heck, check the Forza forums. There are mad complaints about SOME OF THE SAME STUFF.

 

[CodeRedR51]

What did you mean by that? I don't know how it could be interpreted any other way.

He said that because he knows better. He disagrees with your post, specifically the parts he bolded. Hence his reaction. Simple.

 

[omgitsbees]

He said that because he knows better. He disagrees with your post, specifically the parts he bolded. Hence his reaction. Simple.

My point is that should not be an acceptable response. If you don't like what someone has to say then don't respond unless you have a thoughtful rebuttal. I've been taking the time to explain my positions clearly and at least with a little respect, although I get annoyed from time to time when a few people don't bother to pay attention. It's not fair to me and I shouldn't be the one getting yelled at. His responses were exactly as I called them.

 

[88FoxBodyFan]

Okay,
Bitching aside (Now I know why i stay in the photomode forums...)
Who wants to take bets on the size ? Winner get's fully tuned GT86 ?
I'm guessing 1.3GB

I think it depends on whether there are any new rims or not.

 

[gtuned]

I think it depends on whether there are any new rims or not.

I wouldn't think that rims would take up too much space, maybe 5-6mb a peice ?

 

[Griffith500]

I wouldn't think that rims would take up too much space, maybe 5-6mb a peice ?

That's probably on the slightly bloated side! I'd say a meg at most. Unless all the aftermarket (standard) wheels from GT4 are returning, too! The "Daily Special" function, if it too is to return, will use the existing stock of Standard wheels, which are already in the game. So there's a good chance that no wheels will be downloaded at all.

So yeah, it probably won't have much of an effect on overall size; although, I don't think Sony do incremental / bitwise patches, so if there's a small file inside an archive that needs tweaking to allow the use of new wheels, then the whole archive needs to be replaced.

A few hundred meg is probably a good guess, all told.

 

[diegorborges]

That's probably on the slightly bloated side! I'd say a meg at most. Unless all the aftermarket (standard) wheels from GT4 are returning, too! The "Daily Special" function, if it too is to return, will use the existing stock of Standard wheels, which are already in the game. So there's a good chance that no wheels will be downloaded at all.

So yeah, it probably won't have much of an effect on overall size; although, I don't think Sony do incremental / bitwise patches, so if there's a small file inside an archive that needs tweaking to allow the use of new wheels, then the whole archive needs to be replaced.

A few hundred meg is probably a good guess, all told.

Having some experience with game modding and modelling I would say a wheel + textures in GT5 standards would not exceed 500kb.

 

[88FoxBodyFan]

I wouldn't think that rims would take up too much space, maybe 5-6mb a peice ?

I have no idea about the size of files, to be honest with ya. I am hoping for more rims, because even being able to change rims on approximately 700 cars (not counting race cars) you still only have like 30 rim choices with the current selection.

 

[J-KiLLA24]

People keep pointing this out like it only applies to Forza. Polyphony brought over 900+ something cars from previous games. And most of them were horrible quality. At least with Forza 3 and 4, all of the cars were updated and look next gen. How does that fit into your argument now?

You might want to take into consideration that Forza 3 was already on the 360, whereas GT4 was on the PS2. Just imaging how long it would take to convert all those 800+(correction) low-res cars from an older system to premium or at least semi-premium to GT5 on the PS3.

 

[Griffith500]

Kaz has said they're prioritising new cars anyway (for DLC), so the conversion process (which I have no doubt is already underway) will be a bit slow to catch up, i.e. GT6.

 

[Tenacious D]

It doesn't matter, this isn't relevant at all. The point is, Turn-10 is putting out way better content. You want to compare this to Forza, and then you whine when the truth hits you like a bag of bricks and you realize that Polyphony just can't compete.

This is why so many people don't take Polyphony seriously anymore.

PD having a small team doesn't help them at all, it just tells me they are even less equipped to deliver a sequel that will live up their reputation which is quickly diminishing into nothing.

Look, I know you're a complete and utter fan of Forza 4. But that part I bolded is a HIGHLY opinionated remark. You can argue some aspects of Forza 4 are better, or that overall F4 is a better game. But the cars?? Of course you mean that the DLC is Muscle and Supercar heavy. But that's Forza's focus. Gran Turismo is different.

I know you scoff at the fact that I ooh and ahh over a Standard V-Dub or Peugeot that I tune up to a whopping 300hp, paint it a color that I have to buy a CAR for a dumb paint ship to do so, and can't slap a million dollar livery on it like you can in Forza.

But, hey, I do. I love my little Standard hot-hatches, as much as I love my Premium Ford GT and F430 Scuderia I souped up. Am I weird? Ask me if I give a harf what anyone thinks.

You might also ask me why I'm still buying cars for paint chips when I can't do squat for liveries in GT5, while I can make those million dollar liveries in F4. Hey listen, I'd love to love F4 as much as GT5. But we don't get along. For whatever reason, the 3D isn't right, the driver views don't suit me, and the freaking ROAR of a stock VW Golf exhaust drowns out the tire noise I need badly in order to take turns the way I want in Forza 4. Scaff is spot on about the physics work T10 did on the car and tire physics. I see the cars behaving much like they do in PC sims like Live For Speed, while in GT5, they seem much more planted to the road and less lively.

But cars in GT5 speak to me evocatively on the road, while Forza 4 folds its arms at me and forces me to play guessing games as I round turns. So my racing in F4 is sloppy, full of roasted tires and accidentally banging against bots that retaliate. I don't like that. I'd much rather have a PC sim-like experience in F4 like I do in GT5 because I can tell there's a lot going on right in it, stuff I'd love to see in GT5. The physics, the Livery Editor, online, lots of things. But it's just not happening for me like it is Scaff, you, and most of the guys on that other board.

So, I buy cars for paint chips and race my brains out in the game which does feel like a PC sim in many ways. Hey, I give credit where credit is due, and Kaz and his team have worked some kind of magic in this game, so I keep buying those silly cars for paint chips and modding those little foreign hatchbacks in GT5 and throwing them around curves beside Corvettes and having a blast.

We do what makes us happy, and GT5 makes me, and quite a few people, very happy.

In fact, one would think that PD still being so ridiculously short-staffed would be the hint required for PD to start hiring people rather than being justification for the "that's the best they can do so everyone should be proud of them anyway" line of reasoning.

Darn you guys and your goofy mess of brackets for your silly fonts.

Sure, this should be common knowledge, and any business would respond like you suggest to a product which is wildly popular.

BUT, we're talking about SONY here, a company which is three companies in one, and is using the profits from its gaming and studio divisions to keep the electronics division going. Because of the global depression, the electronics division is suffering badly, and I'm not sure the company made any profit last year because the news on it is so muddled. Sure, if SONY was rolling in money like M$, I'm sure they would write Kaz a huge check and tell him to double the size of Polyphony. But we have to hope they do something like that, and there are pages people have dug up which have PD advertising for fresh talent. But how many, we'll just have to wait and see on that.

On the size of the DLC, I'll say that some substance is going to be there, new fuzzy dice samples for the compacts and such, so I'm going to say 1.2 gigs.

 

[Imari]

Look, I know you're a complete and utter fan of Forza 4. But that part I bolded is a HIGHLY opinionated remark. You can argue some aspects of Forza 4 are better, or that overall F4 is a better game. But the cars?? Of course you mean that the DLC is Muscle and Supercar heavy. But that's Forza's focus. Gran Turismo is different.

And many more things that I cut because it was long...

Yes, the statement that Turn 10 puts out better content was an opinionated remark. But it's one that should be fairly close to being universally shared. Putting aside aspects of the games themselves, which can be quite love or hate, let's simply take a look at their selection of cars.

December IGN Pack:
2011 Monster Sport Suzuki SX4
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor
1967 Chevrolet Chevelle SS-396
1977 Ford Escort RS1800
1981 Volkswagen Scirocco S
1986 Alfa Romeo Spider Quadrifoglio Verde
1988 Pontiac Fiero GT
2010 Maserati GranTurismo MC GT4
1957 Maserati 300 S

This is the latest Forza 4 DLC. I have bolded the cars that would be roughly similar to the ones in the second GT5 DLC.

-GT5 has a new GTR, FM4 has a new RX-8. Both Japanese sports cars, that's a fair match.
-GT5 has a Mini, a Golf, and a Scirocco. Forza has an Escort, an Alfa Romeo Convertible, a Fiero, and a Scirocco. None of these cars are fast, all are likely to be fairly interesting to drive, all are likely candidates for ownership in RL by people not earning $100,000 a year.

What's wrong with the FM4 DLC? It gives you all that the GT5 DLC gives you (in a generalised way), as well as a truck, a musclecar, a historic supercar, and two racecars.

People are free to say that one game speaks to them more than another. But to say that the FM4 DLC fails because it's supercar and musclecar heavy tells me that you're not really paying attention.

 

[diegorborges]

Look, I know you're a complete and utter fan of Forza 4. But that part I bolded is a HIGHLY opinionated remark. You can argue some aspects of Forza 4 are better, or that overall F4 is a better game. But the cars?? Of course you mean that the DLC is Muscle and Supercar heavy. But that's Forza's focus. Gran Turismo is different.

I know you scoff at the fact that I ooh and ahh over a Standard V-Dub or Peugeot that I tune up to a whopping 300hp, paint it a color that I have to buy a CAR for a dumb paint ship to do so, and can't slap a million dollar livery on it like you can in Forza.

But, hey, I do. I love my little Standard hot-hatches, as much as I love my Premium Ford GT and F430 Scuderia I souped up. Am I weird? Ask me if I give a harf what anyone thinks.

You might also ask me why I'm still buying cars for paint chips when I can't do squat for liveries in GT5, while I can make those million dollar liveries in F4. Hey listen, I'd love to love F4 as much as GT5. But we don't get along. For whatever reason, the 3D isn't right, the driver views don't suit me, and the freaking ROAR of a stock VW Golf exhaust drowns out the tire noise I need badly in order to take turns the way I want in Forza 4. Scaff is spot on about the physics work T10 did on the car and tire physics. I see the cars behaving much like they do in PC sims like Live For Speed, while in GT5, they seem much more planted to the road and less lively.

But cars in GT5 speak to me evocatively on the road, while Forza 4 folds its arms at me and forces me to play guessing games as I round turns. So my racing in F4 is sloppy, full of roasted tires and accidentally banging against bots that retaliate. I don't like that. I'd much rather have a PC sim-like experience in F4 like I do in GT5 because I can tell there's a lot going on right in it, stuff I'd love to see in GT5. The physics, the Livery Editor, online, lots of things. But it's just not happening for me like it is Scaff, you, and most of the guys on that other board.

So, I buy cars for paint chips and race my brains out in the game which does feel like a PC sim in many ways. Hey, I give credit where credit is due, and Kaz and his team have worked some kind of magic in this game, so I keep buying those silly cars for paint chips and modding those little foreign hatchbacks in GT5 and throwing them around curves beside Corvettes and having a blast.

We do what makes us happy, and GT5 makes me, and quite a few people, very happy.


Darn you guys and your goofy mess of brackets for your silly fonts.

Sure, this should be common knowledge, and any business would respond like you suggest to a product which is wildly popular.

BUT, we're talking about SONY here, a company which is three companies in one, and is using the profits from its gaming and studio divisions to keep the electronics division going. Because of the global depression, the electronics division is suffering badly, and I'm not sure the company made any profit last year because the news on it is so muddled. Sure, if SONY was rolling in money like M$, I'm sure they would write Kaz a huge check and tell him to double the size of Polyphony. But we have to hope they do something like that, and there are pages people have dug up which have PD advertising for fresh talent. But how many, we'll just have to wait and see on that.

On the size of the DLC, I'll say that some substance is going to be there, new fuzzy dice samples for the compacts and such, so I'm going to say 1.2 gigs.

Bravo. I keep buying car for those silly paint chips (can't resist to any BMW Z3M or E46 stock color and TVR ones) and have the same feeling about building 250hp pocket rockets to keep up with supercars. The magic, work like that here too.

AND, doing my new favorite thing... RWB replicas with RUFs BTR in big wings and detuned engines to around 330hp, a really well worked setup making them a blast to drive. When I'm doing that, I'm on wonderland. And now that I'll be able to change the rims, thats wonderland 2.0.

 

[JDMKING13]

Bravo. I keep buying car for those silly paint chips (can't resist to any BMW Z3M or E46 stock color and TVR ones) and have the same feeling about building 250hp pocket rockets to keep up with supercars. The magic, work like that here too.

AND, doing my new favorite thing... RWB replicas with RUFs BTR in big wings and detuned engines to around 330hp, a really well worked setup making them a blast to drive. When I'm doing that, I'm on wonderland. And now that I'll be able to change the rims, thats wonderland 2.0.

Cant agree more, I'm truly addicted to this game I always replicate my EG Honda Civic with the ITR motor swap. I wish they had final drive though the tranny whine kills it with the customize transmission. As you said though my bubble will look amazing with some new shoes.

 

[Tenacious D]

What's wrong with the FM4 DLC? It gives you all that the GT5 DLC gives you (in a generalised way), as well as a truck, a musclecar, a historic supercar, and two racecars.

Because in the past it wasn't quite that diverse. It was more like a muscle car or three, a supercar or three, and a race car or three. And often what people complain about Gran Turismo, that the cars were just variations on themes they already had. True, they've been getting more novel and varied as you point out in this one, but may I suggest that it's because of Gran Turismo's attitude towards the automotive world. And unless I'm mistaken, many of the upcoming car packs won't have many cars in the 120hp range. I do want a few of those cars I must admit, especially that Fiero.

But as I said in another thread, I like Kazunori's goodies more than Dan's, and it doesn't help that I can't stand having to fight literally EVERYTHING in Forza to get a car around a track like I want. I've never struggled with any PC sim one-tenth as much as I have every Forza game, and F4 more than ever.

By the way, 👍 and Merry Christmas to you guys too.

 

[E28]

-GT5 has a new GTR, FM4 has a new RX-8. Both Japanese sports cars, that's a fair match.
-GT5 has a Mini, a Golf, and a Scirocco. Forza has an Escort, an Alfa Romeo Convertible, a Fiero, and a Scirocco. None of these cars are fast, all are likely to be fairly interesting to drive, all are likely candidates for ownership in RL by people not earning $100,000 a year.

I agree with your comparison of the GT-R and RX-8. However, I don't see how you can compare a brand new hot hatch to an 80s Alfa Romeo Spyder. Also, all of the cars in the GT5 DLC are fast, at least by everyday standards. I wouldn't call them likely candidates for ownership either. A Golf/Scirocco R costs about £30,000... That's quite a lot.

 

[Encyclopedia]

Well I'm pretty excited about this I must say.

 

[Samus]

Because in the past it wasn't quite that diverse. It was more like a muscle car or three, a supercar or three, and a race car or three. And often what people complain about Gran Turismo, that the cars were just variations on themes they already had. True, they've been getting more novel and varied as you point out in this one, but may I suggest that it's because of Gran Turismo's attitude towards the automotive world.

Pish. What is Gran Turismo's attitude towarsd the automotive world exactly? We'll ignore most US and European models and always give you a Nissan without fail?

Here are all of the DLC cars for Forza 3:

2010 Ferrari 458 Italia
2010 Nissan GT-R SpecV
2010 Ferrari 599XX
2009 Audi #2 Audi Sport Team Joest R15 TDI
2010 Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SV
2009 Aston Martin #007 Aston Martin Racing Lola
2010 Porsche Panamera Turbo
2009 Mercedes SLR Stirling Moss
2010 Jaguar XFR
2010 Audi S4
2010 Aston Martin One-77
2010 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport
2010 Ford Shelby GT500
2010 Porsche Boxster S
2010 Pagani Zonda R
2009 Audi R8 LMS Show Car
2010 BMW Motorsport M6 Coupe
2009 Audi RS 6
2009 Lotus 2-Eleven
2010 Saleen S5S Raptor
1965 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA Stradale
1964 Aston Martin DB5 Vantage
1981 BMW Motorsport M1
1960 Chevrolet Corvette
1969 Dodge Charger Daytona Hemi
1957 Ferrari 250 Testa Rossa
1980 Fiat 131 Abarth
1967 Lamborghini Miura P400
1971 Nissan Skyline 2000GT-R
1965 Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe
2008 Mazda Furai
2010 Jaguar #33 Jaguar RSR XKR GT
2009 Ford #40 Robertson Racing Ford GT Mk7
2010 Aston Martin V12 Vantage
2010 Porsche 911 Sport Classic
1992 Bugatti EB110 SS
2011 BMW Motorsport Z4 sDrive35is
2010 Audi TT RS Coupe
2010 Aston Martin Rapide
2010 Honda Mugen Civic Type-R 3D
2010 Volkswagen Golf R
2009 Holden HSV w427
2010 Ford Taurus SHO
2010 Mercedes-Benz E 63 AMG
2010 Renault Megane RS 250
2010 Vauxhall Insignia VXR
2010 MINI Coupé Concept
2010 Bentley Continental Supersports
2010 Mazda MX-5 Superlight
2010 SEAT Leon CUPRA R
2010 Gumpert Apollo S
2010 Spyker C8 Laviolette LM85
2010 SSC Ultimate Aero
2010 Devon GTX
2010 Rossion Q1
2010 Joss JT1
2010 Mosler MT900S
2010 Radical SR8 Supersport
2010 Wiesmann GT MF5
2010 Spada Vetture Sport Codatronca TS
2010 Lotus Evora Type 124 Endurance Racecar
2010 Mercedes-Benz SLK 55 AMG
2010 BMW Motorsport X6M
2010 Morgan Aero SuperSports
2009 Chrysler Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8
2010 Bertone Mantide
2010 Mazda Mazdaspeed 3
2010 Ford Fusion Sport
2010 Subaru Legacy B4 2.5GT
2010 Peugeot 308 RCZ
2011 McLaren MP4-12C
2010 Acura TSX V6
2010 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG
2011 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
2010 FIAT Punto Evo Sport
2010 Mercedes-Benz CL 65 AMG
2010 Kia Forte Koup
2011 Mazda 2
2011 Citroen DS3
2010 Mitsubishi Colt Ralliart
1957 Ferrari 250 California
1982 DeLorean DMC-12
1973 BMW Motorsport 2002 Turbo
1990 Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.5-16 Evolution II
1987 Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500
1971 De Tomaso Pantera
1971 AMC Javelin-AMX
1983 Volvo 242 Turbo Evolution
1978 Saab 99 Turbo
1970 Chevrolet El Camino SS-454

If that isn't diverse enough for you I don't know what is. That is the DLC they gave you the option of buying over 12 months on top of an already complete game.

 

[themartlab]

Must admit ^^^ this is pretty interesting! Wish Gt5 could offer as much!

AMC javelin AMX!!

 

[Hayden]

Yet another thread degenerates to this crap

People like what they like, you won't change their mind so don't try to. All it does is kill informative threads, fire up moderators and 🤬 people off. Some of us go into a thread about a GT5 update and DLC to, you know, talk about a GT5 update and DLC. Not hear about how Turn 10 has more employees, or Microsoft has more money or FM4 has different DLC.

I'm going to stop before i insult someone.

 

[Gejabo]

Yet another thread degenerates to this crap

People like what they like, you won't change their mind so don't try to. All it does is kill informative threads, fire up moderators and 🤬 people off. Some of us go into a thread about a GT5 update and DLC to, you know, talk about a GT5 update and DLC. Not hear about how Turn 10 has more employees, or Microsoft has more money or FM4 has different DLC.

I'm going to stop before i insult someone.

my thoughts put into words...

thank you 👍