New physics (update 1.31)

  • Thread starter Dess81
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The last 11 pages on this topic is what I expected. Personally, I love the updated physics and the much improved FFB. I understand why a lot of players loved the previous version. Super GT said it best in his video..."Brute force driving is no longer an option" In the previous physics model, players just needed to brute force drive their car. Full punch throttle, slam the brakes, and hard turn in the direction needed. This was especially true with race cars. Not necessarily true with street cars on comfort tires. Now you have to "drive" the car. BRUTE FORCE DRIVING is no longer rewarded no matter if you play single player or race online with friends. Yes, the new physics model has a slight understeer characteristic. Fans of arcade physics will definitely not like the newer model.

Lastly, I understand the gripes about changing things, especially in terms of the handling model, a year plus into the release of the game. I for one believe PD has finally hit the sweet spot and I hope they don't revert back to a more arcade feel. At this point please leave it alone. It's the most fun I've had with the game to date and it feels the most dynamic yet. =)
 
Good video on Tire temps:


Seems 70-80 °C is optimal for the tires
At start of qualifying, start of the race and after pitting, tire temps are at 60°C
All compounds take same time to warm up: About 2 laps at current Daily C (Seaside)

Wonder why PD hasn't tuned the in-game tire indicator to actually show this with the blue/grey/red outlines.
 
Wow I think they changed a bunch of the license test times as a few my old best times were no longer under the gold threshold. I'm loving the new physics, its a big jump in the right direction. That being said, trailbraking is harder to pull off in some cars. But I do love that you get penalized for missing a braking zone by sliding right through the corner. This update will certainly help separate the contenders from the pretenders as you can't just throw the car into the turn any longer with minor consequences.


Jerome
 
I haven't really driven anything other than 45 minutes in the Toyota van on the new TT, but my time with the Tomahawk X on SS Route X increased significantly. Before the update I was consistently doing 2'50.4ish. After the update I am now doing 2'52.0. I do this somewhat regularly for the daily marathon.
 
Wow I think they changed a bunch of the license test times as a few my old best times were no longer under the gold threshold. I'm loving the new physics, its a big jump in the right direction. That being said, trailbraking is harder to pull off in some cars. But I do love that you get penalized for missing a braking zone by sliding right through the corner. This update will certainly help separate the contenders from the pretenders as you can't just throw the car into the turn any longer with minor consequences.


Jerome


^ This, exactly.

On another note, I’ve been slooooooooowly building this rig over the past few months. I couldn’t bring myself to fiddling with an 80/20 rig. With endless adjustability, comes endless headaches. Hopefully, I’ll be able to enjoy the new physics to the fullest. I want to be FIGHTING the car at every turn just like the real guys do on YouTube.com!!



I shall call her….. EXCALIBUR.









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@Yard_Sale

Rig looks very nice. I am debating to buy a new rig, but there are so many to choose from.

From the pictures I gues yours is Omega Prime Lite with RS9 seat ?

How do you like yours, was it easy to assemble ?

Do you think the seat would be a good match for a 100 kg guy 1,96 CM tall ?

Also is there any way to use if for flight sims also ?
 
I'm using controller, am I the only one who don't like the new physics?
All car are understeering crazily, tried to turned the initial and accel on diff, even make it worse (rear diff). Turned down all front diff also doesn't help. Turn the sensitivity up to max (from 6) still no result. Did I make mistake on how I tuned cars?

I got faster lap time on 1.30, much worse on 1.31
 
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458 feels amazing on my t300. I raced all day yesterday race b.

I tried some of the FR cars and they did not feel as fun to drive and def lacked the rotation of the 458.
I haven't tried the 458 post-1.31 update yet, but it's one of my favorite cars in the game, so now I'm very much looking forward to it!
 
I'm using controller, am I the only one who don't like the new physics?
All car are understeering crazily, tried to turned the initial and accel on diff, even make it worse (rear diff). Turned down all front diff also doesn't help. Turn the sensitivity up to max (from 6) still no result. Did I make mistake on how I tuned cars?

I got faster lap time on 1.30, much worse on 1.31
Reading comments in this thread makes me think that people using a wheel like the new physics more than people using a controller.

I'm using a controller too. I struggle a lot with the new physics. So far I tested road cars, Gr4 with BOP, and Gr3 with BOP. Here are my impressions :

- Gr3 with BOP : physics seem closer to pre 1.13. Snap oversteer is back and cars are generally harder to drive without TCS. It's more challenging and rewarding to drive these cars now in my opinion.

- Gr4 with BOP : these cars feel faster. They have way more grip than before and slower turns are almost weird to me as they seem so much faster than previously. In this category, cars feel more "arcade" than before, in my opinion.

- Road cars : it's hit or miss. Generally, the grip levels have increased. Comfort tyres have way more grip than before. Breaking is less efficient. A lot of cars are way more easy to drive and have less personality. FF cars tend to "spin" more (for lack of a better word). 4WD have a lot more understeer. A lot of FR cars have been tamed and don't oversteer as much as before. I've tested about 40 road cars this weekend, and I'd say 75% of them feel about the same now. It's a lot less interesting to drive, and it feels like assists are on by default.

I might be in the minority, of course. It seems that there are more people who enjoy the new physics than people (like me) who don't. I can only accept that and be happy for those who prefer the new physics. 1.31 has disappointed me a lot and took away a lot of the interest I had in the game. Obviously, it's just a game and there are a lot more important things in life.
 
@Yard_Sale

Rig looks very nice. I am debating to buy a new rig, but there are so many to choose from.

From the pictures I gues yours is Omega Prime Lite with RS9 seat ?

How do you like yours, was it easy to assemble ?

Do you think the seat would be a good match for a 100 kg guy 1,96 CM tall ?

Also is there any way to use if for flight sims also ?


Its the normal Omega Prime. It was a PITA to put together. Just.... tedious. I consider myself pretty mechanically inclined, but putting this thing together was a true test of my patience. I think the rig is honestly a good match for anyone, regardless of size. Its that adjustable!!!

Granted I haven't used it yet. But my gut inclination is; that maybe I would have looked for something that didn't require as much assembly. It's stiff... but I can still make the steering platform flex. I think nowadays, there's some pretty good rigs out there that require not nearly as much assembly, and can handle a powerful DD wheelbase.

I'll learn more about this rig in the coming weeks for sure!!
 
Reading comments in this thread makes me think that people using a wheel like the new physics more than people using a controller.

I'm using a controller too. I struggle a lot with the new physics. So far I tested road cars, Gr4 with BOP, and Gr3 with BOP. Here are my impressions :

- Gr3 with BOP : physics seem closer to pre 1.13. Snap oversteer is back and cars are generally harder to drive without TCS. It's more challenging and rewarding to drive these cars now in my opinion.

- Gr4 with BOP : these cars feel faster. They have way more grip than before and slower turns are almost weird to me as they seem so much faster than previously. In this category, cars feel more "arcade" than before, in my opinion.

- Road cars : it's hit or miss. Generally, the grip levels have increased. Comfort tyres have way more grip than before. Breaking is less efficient. A lot of cars are way more easy to drive and have less personality. FF cars tend to "spin" more (for lack of a better word). 4WD have a lot more understeer. A lot of FR cars have been tamed and don't oversteer as much as before. I've tested about 40 road cars this weekend, and I'd say 75% of them feel about the same now. It's a lot less interesting to drive, and it feels like assists are on by default.

I might be in the minority, of course. It seems that there are more people who enjoy the new physics than people (like me) who don't. I can only accept that and be happy for those who prefer the new physics. 1.31 has disappointed me a lot and took away a lot of the interest I had in the game. Obviously, it's just a game and there are a lot more important things in life.
I get this impression too: wheel drivers are happy, those who play with a controller are not.
While I am also happy for the wheel users, most players are on a controller. Likely a conundrum for PD. I hope they can make life on a controller a bit better without losing the improvements for the wheel.
It would help me (I am on a controller) if they would just make the traction control a bit stronger. I use TCS to compensate for the fact I use buttons for acceleration and braking.
 
I get this impression too: wheel drivers are happy, those who play with a controller are not.
While I am also happy for the wheel users, most players are on a controller. Likely a conundrum for PD. I hope they can make life on a controller a bit better without losing the improvements for the wheel.
It would help me (I am on a controller) if they would just make the traction control a bit stronger. I use TCS to compensate for the fact I use buttons for acceleration and braking.
I play on both when I have smaller amount of time I choose controller, and I didn't noticed bigger problems with playing on dualsense. I think it is actually better now more lively. And wheel improvements? Oh god this is great now.
 
I play on a controller and it feels to me as though they've adjusted the throttle input curves on the triggers, it felt much easier to gently apply throttle when exiting a corner now. It may just be in my head though. Road cars are certainly quite twitchy after this update but it also felt like I could catch them a little more easily now. Race cars feel better overall IMO but then I haven't tested many and they were primarily Gr.4
 
Controller user here, pretty happy with the changes. Need to be a bit more careful now with the throttle but that's ok, a chance to learn some proper control.

I wonder if the main difference is between those using buttons for throttle/brake vs those on the triggers, and also the dpad vs stick steering.
 
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I am on the duel sense and love the new physics. This game is a joy to play now. If you aren't sure about them try the Catalina circuit experience. I could not do it before due to the car without turning on some assists but now the car is far better to drive. Also everyone talking about running Gr 3 cars with TC off, a lot of the cars in the game are meant to have TC used, I don't understand why people don't use TC when the car itself uses it in real life. I guess it's slightly faster but if you are struggling with control any advantages would be lost anyway. GT7 could do with a realistic setting for each car like Project Cars 2 did.
 
After some minutes last week after update, gave a couple of hours this weekend.

So, first real impressions (on a G29)...
Oddly I can review both whom love and hate the new physics.

The new tyre (temperature) model makes the racing (slick) tires gripless until reaching the temperature window, not being such a problem in grooved tires. So, indeed seems thar racing tires have a little less grip, but is marginal, just they take a bit of time heating up. In other hand, they seem to last forever now.
Tried Sardegna 15 lap with the Gr.2 Lexus SC430C, with RM (new PP calculations gave me room to that) and they handled all the race, I believe they could handle some more 8-9 laps if needed, as the fronts were about 50% only, by the end.
At Le Mans 30 minutes, the new PP calculation giving some room, the AI cars were incredibly fast in my run (so my car, of course, my 700pp setting for the Aston DP-100 came down to about 680pp, so I could beef up the power), but with 2 laps of heavy rain (3/4 of the meter) on laps 4 and 5, the guys who stopped by the end of lap 3 put the right tires and on of them went to the 7th lap before the clock expired.
Tokyo grind is sill doable non-stop, at least with the DP-100, the fuel does it marginally, sports hard not an issue, just struggle a bit on putting temp on them on first lap damp track, fastest lap on the last one, plenty of life left on the tires here to, confortable win, even if the total time was slightly higher than before, mainly because AI spun me out when I was being cautious on the first lap.

The worst part for me is that new physics ruined Porsche 993 CS! This is a car where now you can fell that boat understeer and snappy oversteer, sometimes both at the same time. Simply undriveable, more modern Porsche 911s are fine, yes, some understeer if you drive them like an FF car. If you induce a bit of rotation on the car you will be fine, with great corner exit, like a 911 should be. But not the 993. Even the 901 Carrera, more twitchy, is much more predictable.
Some other issues with specific cars I noticed are related with some extreme, irrational setups, with huge rake angles and so, that put the cars completely unbalenced on Front/Rear ride heights, weight transfer and aero. I think it only need some tweaking on suspension and diffs to adjust to new pysics and aero models.

Still didn't tried Dirt or Drift, maybe drift can be a little more doable now on a steering wheel (or the cars just understeer aswell).

The force feedback is clearly an improvement, but there still many kerb where nothing happens.
 
Had a chance to put a good few hours into the new physics over the weekend, did about 500 miles with the wheel (Logitech G Pro) and about 300 miles with the controller (just doing some dull grinding).

For context, I don't use any online tunes, so haven't been running comical rake or any other hacks to make the cars fast, I tend to just use the default setups and get used to the car, with occasional softening of the rear to tame snappy oversteer. I also run ABS on Weak, or will occasionally run with it off as it's good fun. I get the impression some of the tune 'hacks' and ABS on Default is possibly influencing how people experience the new physics, but obviously that's entirely unproven.

Wheel:

I'm already very used to the changes, so it's actually a struggle to make what I feel are objective observations. None the less, here were my first impressions when trying out the update:

FFB felt lighter. I run strength 10 in GT7 and wheel set at 8.5Nm. I upped the wheel to 11Nm and it now feels as it did before, but more varied between tyre grip levels, will touch on this in a bit.
Going light on understeer is very obvious, and appreciated. It felt a little too stark initially, but I was overdriving due to old habits.
The riding up kerb / dropping a wheel off the edge of the track (was initialy testing at Tsukuba) seems to have gone. As in, before I felt like there was more of a tug in the steering when you dropped a wheel off the edge of the track or initially bumped up a kerb.
Countersteer felt 'different' once in a stable drift, neither better nor worse really, it felt like there was perhaps more information being given.
Snap oversteer moments are more catchable in race cars than before.
The relationship between throttle -> weight transfer -> understeer seems more pronounced than before.

So my overall impression is that the general driving style is a bit more nuanced now, it requires smoother and more balanced inputs. I don't think the braking is worse, I've done a LOT of laps of Spa in the WTC800, so know my braking points pretty well, and I think they're all still hittable, just some of them are harder if they involve trail braking whilst still under high brake force.

Best example I'd say is into turn 12 (the right hander after Pouhon), I brake basically at the 50m board in Grp 3 cars, and now found myself creeping back a little earlier to keep it consistent, because getting the balance between brake force and steering angle is harder now, it's easier to ask too much with the brakes and thus understeer. This is communciated in the wheel though, and for me after a few hundred miles I can't even remember how it felt before, it feels natural and enjoyable, and I really just feel the benefit of the extra depth of info given by the understeer 'ligthening' effect that's now represented.

In terms of FFB strength, I upped it from 8.5Nm to 11Nm (on the G Pro wheel), it's remained at strength 10 sensitivity 1 in game the whole time. It feels like an even more tactile sensation of the different grip levels between the tyres, I do a lot of road car racing on Comfort Softs as well as the inevitable enduro grinding on Racing Hards, but now it feels even more obviously different, even between say the Racing Medium and Racing Soft, there's physically a little more resistance on the Softs, it's very pleasing and feels like there's a wider bandwidth than before.

If anyone on a wheel feels it's too light, I'd personal recommend my own personal recalibration procedure, which is to do the Tsukuba time trial in the rainy afternoon setting and just keep lapping until it's completely dry (30 - 40 laps). You'll get used to the super lightweight wet feel, and then will feel the weight building up as the track dries, and by the end of it the wheel feels quite heavy with grip, it's great.


Controller:

Not as much to say here, again I found the trail braking balance required more finesse to get right, but really beyond that, it felt 'fine'.

As others have covered, the tyres last forever in comparison, except the intermediates which basically melt if it's dry! Boncing over kerbs feels much more stable, although the weird flat green bits on the outside of Pouhon can still seemingly just lift the car up and throw it off sideways.
 
I am on the duel sense and love the new physics. This game is a joy to play now. If you aren't sure about them try the Catalina circuit experience. I could not do it before due to the car without turning on some assists but now the car is far better to drive. Also everyone talking about running Gr 3 cars with TC off, a lot of the cars in the game are meant to have TC used, I don't understand why people don't use TC when the car itself uses it in real life. I guess it's slightly faster but if you are struggling with control any advantages would be lost anyway. GT7 could do with a realistic setting for each car like Project Cars 2 did.
My thoughts too. TC does what it's meant to do and give you better traction and also better tyre temperature management (and tyre life). Why not use it? There is no honor to be gained from driving without.
I'm a controller user too, like most GT7 players around the globe are. I haven't noticed much difference in the controller itself. Though cars react differently on track slightly, the controller works generally the same. A few setup tweaks solve that problem and get the car back where I want them to be.
Not sure if I like the feedback in rain, though. It probably mimics raindrops hitting the car, but it feels like your tyres are crushing M&M's or something.
 
lso everyone talking about running Gr 3 cars with TC off, a lot of the cars in the game are meant to have TC used, I don't understand why people don't use TC when the car itself uses it in real life.
Because GT7 TC and actual TC are fundamentally different things.
(Why no launch control is present ingame?)

GT7 TC simply limits engine power output whenever it detecs slip (depending in the stage of TC).
Counter to that many real TCS are regulating power to each individual tyre (such as ATTESA ET-S).
 
physics were improved. nothing else matters, no way people want the old physics back. Pd should ignore those..

Fix the controller problems, don't touch physics
Totally agree here.

Despite being on controller and using D-Pad + buttons for throttle/brake, I can clearly make the distinction between the new physics which are far better, and the new handling on non-analogic / adaptative triggers configs which are bad and needs to be fixed.
 
- Gr3 with BOP : physics seem closer to pre 1.13. Snap oversteer is back and cars are generally harder to drive without TCS. It's more challenging and rewarding to drive these cars now in my opinion.
I agree 100%. I raced in Gr.3 about 5 times this week. 3/5 times I was in position to finish first, coming from 9th/10th place.

The first of those three races, I wrecked on the last corner that unsettles the car. Got on the gas too quickly. I realized with the update, I needed to run at TC1. Previously I kept TC off.

After that, I finished in first two times coming from a long way back and it was rewarding for a few different reasons.
  • Tire strategy was huge. Starting on softs, sifting through the melee with the increased traction. Using that extra traction to build a comfortable lead and then putting for mediums.
  • The new physics really reward consistency. Clearly I wasn't qualifying up front but I could pump in consistent times and race cleanly. A bit of luck never hurts when avoiding wrecks.
  • Having assists like counter-steer nerfing players is a welcomed sight. Maybe it's in my head but I feel like they aren't able to race without consequence as much. I'll often watch the replays and see who's running assists.
 
Seems like an improvement overall to me. I have wheel rig setup and a controller but I mostly just use controller for GT7. The handling feels closer to how it was at launch (which I liked) because there was more nuance to the handling. Aside from certain issues like certain snappy car platforms (MR, RR), I think people found it too hard so they dumbed it down. Feels like they've moved it back in a good direction. Stuff like my NA1 NSX race car the handling was always jacked up once you put full race suspension, even after hours of trying to fine tune it. Other cars had a similar issue. That all seems to be gone, which is excellent. The breakaway feels more progressive.

All the understeering complaints are due to people being used to just slamming on the brakes and turning. Its taken me a fair bit to unlearn that behavior but I'm getting there. Certain cars (like the Gr3 stuff) I found it to be more apparent, bulldozing into corners, where as other stuff like the CLK-LM or whatever, you can trail brake a tad more and it feels great.

This is all still only on controller as well. This update has got me a little motivated to drag out the rig to try it on that but I dunno if I feel like it.
 
^ This, exactly.

On another note, I’ve been slooooooooowly building this rig over the past few months. I couldn’t bring myself to fiddling with an 80/20 rig. With endless adjustability, comes endless headaches. Hopefully, I’ll be able to enjoy the new physics to the fullest. I want to be FIGHTING the car at every turn just like the real guys do on YouTube.com!!



I shall call her….. EXCALIBUR.









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Jerome
 
Another G29 user here, and a major fan of the update. Pre 1.31 I was playing maybe 1-2 times per month, and not really enjoying it. Played more this weekend than the past 8 months combined. Pre-update G29 felt like a wheel shaped controller sort of influencing car like objects on the screen. 1.31 feels like driving.
 
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