News from Sema

[Starking]

Someone was actually expecting engine swaps in GT?

Really think about it: Why do people swap engines?

There's 2 reasons I can think of as to why someone would put another engine in their car in real life.

1. They cannot afford to buy the car that has the engine they want in it, but they have a less expensive/older model that can fit the motor they want in it's bay.

2. The old motor in their car is broken and they need a new one and decided to upgrade.

There's also an additional reason that applies to Forza swaps only,

3. To do swaps that wouldn't be physically possible in real life without costing vast amounts of money and the sacrifice of a Bugatti Veyron or two.

If you can think of anymore reasons please let me know. If not, then consider those three reasons and remember what it is GT represents and then ask yourself how on earth engine swaps would fit into Gran Turismo.

1. You can own as many cars as you want in GT, so if you see the car with the engine you want in it... you can most likely go out and buy it. Plus that car would better honor the engine since it was designed to have it in the bay.

2. You can easily go out and buy another version of your car that's no longer working at the expected level of performance.

3. Gran Turismo pain-stakingly replicates a cars real-world performance in the game. In order to successfully duplicate how a car would drive with a specific engine in it would involve them going out and actually driving a car that has the swapped engine inside of it. (Granted, they DO have performance modifications and I doubt they drive a few hundred turbocharged cars every day... so there is an argument for swaps.)

20B in a RX7, RB26 in a S13-S15, or LS1 in a Miata would like a word with you. You're right, however you're missing a key point in putting in a higher performance motor. I mean, what motor do you think would be better, a 7MGTE or a 2JZ in a 3rd Gen Supra?

 

[Luminis]

So I take it I was wrong?

You were. The reason for most swaps is that you cab get more power out of certain engines than you could get from the stock ones without the risk of blowing the engine.
Big suprise here, but dropping a SR20DET into a AE86 instead of the stock 4A-GE engine will not only result in more power due to the swap, but it'll make it easier to extract more power flrom the engine with tuning afterwards without damaging it.

 

[Terronium-12]

So I take it I was wrong?

Considerably.

It's not always a factor of not having enough money to buy that car, or wanting to replace a seized up (or whatever may be wrong ) engine. From our perspective (enthusiasts, power junkies, and just outright nutbags) it's just a factor of want to make your car as ridiculous as possible. As the case is with Forza, so what if a V10 can't physically occupy the space in the back of a Sport Classic (just an example)? The fact you can even do it is what makes it awesome and adds to the wealth of customization the game already has. You can fit the Veyron's W16 into a EB110 - you think that's possible? No.

What does it matter though? It's a game, and the main thing is having fun.

 

[jodark]

Yes, reason #1 on the list. Unless you're implying that the Prelude is not supposed to be one of the best FWD vehicles ever made, which I've heard that it is. In GT, instead of simply modifying the Civic, what's stopping you from going out and buying the Prelude?

I've heard much better things about the Prelude chassis than I have about the Civic DX chassis.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Incredibly long-winded explanation about how the user doesn't see engine swaps as useful, and assumes these are the only ways to view it.

I'm really not surprised they didn't include them, because like you said, they would be a lot of work. But the assumptions you make about why people do it in real-life are questionable at best.

I'm not bothered about engine swaps.

Me neither.

 

[Ahjumbie]

Yes, reason #1 on the list. Unless you're implying that the Prelude is not supposed to be one of the best FWD vehicles ever made, which I've heard that it is. In GT, instead of simply modifying the Civic, what's stopping you from going out and buying the Prelude?

If you've ever driven in a Civic DX you'll know . The DX is basically a tin can on wheels . I don't even think it has a radio in it . The Prelude was made to be comfortable and therefore relatively heavy. I don't think there would anything you can do that will make it as light as a DX besides doing a MAJOR overhaul . By putting the way more powerful Prelude engine in a DX , power to weight went up and that little thing used to fly!! I'm not saying it's the best example but just used it so you can get an idea...

As far is in the game goes that's a different story. That was just a real life example..

 

[Shant J.]

Though i won't hold my breath, I hope that Kaz considers this beauty:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/03/sema-2010-1955-chevrolet-e-rod-ls3-pickup-is-ready-to-haul/

 

[d3br34k5]

nonsense

Logical Reason #3: There's plenty of room, jam something bigger in the engine bay! Happens all the time. The old man and I are planning on putting a 350 in his Jeep J10 this winter. 💡

I'm going to bet you're not a mechanic or mechanically inclined. That's cool, not everyone's interested in getting greasy, cut, burned, etc, but just understand that wherever you see a farm in the country, there's a good chance that there's a 'project car' being worked on in the barn.

Check out Powerblock on SpikeTV. It's on every Sunday and features 4 different tuner shows (HorsepowerTV is the best one) from 11am EST - 1pm EST. GEARz on SPEEDTV with Stacey David (Formerly of TRUCKS!) is of greater integrity, but he only has a few episodes. That one's also on earlier in the morning.

Anyways, engine swaps are very common, don't depend on those 'criteria' and should be part of GT5's modification options.

Oh well...

 

[Kreepnslayer]

Yes, reason #1 on the list. Unless you're implying that the Prelude is not supposed to be one of the best FWD vehicles ever made, which I've heard that it is. In GT, instead of simply modifying the Civic, what's stopping you from going out and buying the Prelude?

Soetimes it's also about the joy and satisfaction of making the car your own. Being unique.
I admit I like this aspect of Forza, always have. Livery editor, engine swaps, drivetrain swaps (even the stupid ones) all lend to the feeling of being connected to the vehicle. Like it really is your own. Meet another person online from your race club to race your modified Chevelle. Maybe they maxed out the stock 454. Maybe I swap in the NASCAR engine. Then we run them against each other, talk about what we did differently.
However, it's not like GT5 will suck without this feature. Just saying theres more to it than just goin out and buying the car that has the engine you want.

 

[Fredde_swe]

Sheesh no engine swaps. Something thats been in forza and many other racing games for years. Id rather them not have spent the time on nascar or karts and finish some of these things that I consider to be more important to what GT is.

In real life you can swap engines, why cant you in this game?

Yes, you can swap engines in Forza but but it doesn't work out too well

In real life you can do whatever you feel like, why can't you do that in any video game?

Sure, would be nice to have the opportunity to swap engine in GT5, but you can not have it all, look what we get instead. And you wonder why GT5 is delayed over and over again

 

[Snaeper]

As someone who has considered an engine swap for my own car in real life (Reason #2, the old one is dilapidated and I was considered an upgrade), I apologize. My words were not thought through.

Reason 1 was meant to be the reason most people do engine swaps. To put a better engine in their car. Since the majority of the best engines made are in their natural cars in GT, why not just get THAT car? LS1 in a Miata (having fantasized this swap and thought about buying a Miata just to do it this is hard to say)? Easy: Turbo the Miata and buy a Corvette. Same for the Supra, just buy the 4th Gen and buy a Skyline GT-R (in the case of the S13-15).

 

[Terronium-12]

As someone who has considered an engine swap for my own car in real life (Reason #2, the old one is dilapidated and I was considered an upgrade), I apologize. My words were not thought through.

Reason 1 was meant to be the reason most people do engine swaps. To put a better engine in their car. Since the majority of the best engines made are in their natural cars in GT, why not just get THAT car? LS1 in a Miata (having fantasized this swap and thought about buying a Miata just to do it this is hard to say)? Easy: Turbo the Miata and buy a Corvette. Same for the Supra, just buy the 4th Gen and buy a Skyline GT-R.

Because it's usually (9 times out of 10) cheaper? 💡

What you're suggesting easily goes against the entire idea of customization as a whole; why affix a wing onto your 911 GT3 when you can just go out and purchase a GT3-RS?

 

[Luminis]

? Easy: Turbo the Miata and buy a Corvette. Same for the Supra, just buy the 4th Gen and buy a Skyline GT-R.

Okay, let's say you want the RB26DETT engine from the Skyline because you know it has a lott of potential in it (or for whatever reason).
But, due to personal preferance (or racing regulations or whatever) you want a lightweight rear wheel driven car.
So, what are you going to do? Buy a Skyline, convert it to RWD and strip it, or just buy the engine and drop it into a E36 BMW M3 that's RWD by default and weighs less than the Skyline?

 

[Snaeper]

Because it's usually (9 times out of 10) cheaper? 💡

What you're suggesting easily goes against the entire idea of customization as a whole; why affix a wing onto your 911 GT3 when you can just go out and purchase a GT3-RS?

You can't buy Porsche's in GT so your comparison is moot?

Of course it's cheaper... in real life. That's why people do it! But why do it in GT when you can have the theoretical GT3 AND GT3 RS, since all it takes is a few races and you can buy both?

Okay, let's say you want the RB26DETT engine from the Skyline because you know it has a lott of potential in it (or for whatever reason).
But, due to personal preferance (or racing regulations or whatever) you want a lightweight rear wheel driven car.
So, what are you going to do? Buy a Skyline, convert it to RWD and strip it, or just buy the engine and drop it into a E36 BMW M3 that's RWD by default and weighs less than the Skyline?

Are we referring to real life or GT? In GT I'd buy a GTS-25t and modify it. In real life I'd swap into the BMW.

 

[Terronium-12]

You can't buy Porsche's in GT so your comparison is moot?

Of course it's cheaper... in real life. That's why people do it! But why do it in GT when you can have the theoretical GT3 AND GT3 RS, since all it takes is a few races and you can buy both?

*Sigh*

There is just no hope. Maybe it's my fault for not explaining it like a mechanic should, I just don't know.

 

[Willbo87]

Theres no engine swaps guys. 6th question from the bottom.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20101103/SEMA/101109948

 

[Starking]

As someone who has considered an engine swap for my own car in real life (Reason #2, the old one is dilapidated and I was considered an upgrade), I apologize. My words were not thought through.

Reason 1 was meant to be the reason most people do engine swaps. To put a better engine in their car. Since the majority of the best engines made are in their natural cars in GT, why not just get THAT car? LS1 in a Miata (having fantasized this swap and thought about buying a Miata just to do it this is hard to say)? Easy: Turbo the Miata and buy a Corvette. Same for the Supra, just buy the 4th Gen and buy a Skyline GT-R (in the case of the S13-15).

Because sometimes you want a powerful engine in a light car, I've been debating what motor I'd want to swap into a 240Z. Maybe a RB26, but by your logic I'd be better off with a Skyline (This goes for in-game as well.) However, what's the weight difference between a R32-R34 over a 240Z? I believe it's about 1000 pounds. It has to do with the fact of putting a powerful engine into a light car. With some cars you can only do so much. I guess you could use a 2nd Gen Supra as a reference, since it's lighter then both the 3rd and 4th Gens.

 

[Snaeper]

*Sigh*

There is just no hope. Maybe it's my fault for not explaining it like a mechanic should, I just don't know.

So you meant that it's cheaper to swap engines in GT? They don't allow you to swap engines in GT so I don't know how you can compare the price.


Engine swapping in real life is cheap (compared to just going out and buying another car). That's why people do it. In Gran Turismo, money is easy to come by. So you can just buy any car you want with whatever engine you want in it.

I understand you perfectly, I think it's you who's not understanding me.

 

[shigllgetcha]

was really hoping engine swaps would be in gt5, its a great feature in forza 3

and it meant you could get a bigger capacity engine into a car instead of having to turbo the crap out of the stock engine

its not that rare in the modding scene to put in a cheaper engine. bigger engine in a civic, rb26 into other nissans, all the engine swaps that are done in toyotas, 2l turbo mr2 into an ae86

would have been very easy to have added it to gt5 imo. im alittle disappointed

anyone that says less options is a good thing really needs to think about why they're saying it

 

[Luminis]

Are we referring to real life or GT? In GT I'd buy a GTS-25t and modify it. In real life I'd swap into the BMW.

Exactly, in real life, you'd swap it into the BMW. So, why would it be pointles to do so in The Real Driving Simulator?

It's not like the BMW is the budget choice or anythin. Take a look at some of the time attack cars (for example on speedhunters). There's not a single budget solution there, but you'll find cars like an Audi powered Lotus Elise. If it's part of real racing, it would be a reasonable addition to Gran Turismo, wouldn't it?

 

[Terronium-12]

So you meant that it's cheaper to swap engines in GT? They don't allow you to swap engines in GT so I don't know how you can compare the price.


Engine swapping in real life is cheap. That's why people do it. In Gran Turismo, money is easy to come by. So you can just buy any car you want with whatever engine you want in it.

I understand you perfectly, I think it's you who's not understanding me.

No, you really don't.

 

[Snaeper]

Because sometimes you want a powerful engine in a light car, I've been debating what motor I'd want to swap into a 240Z. Maybe a RB26, but by your logic I'd be better off with a Skyline (This goes for in-game as well.) However, what's the weight difference between a R32-R34 over a 240Z? I believe it's about 1000 pounds. It has to do with the fact of putting a powerful engine into a light car. With some cars you can only do so much. I guess you could use a 2nd Gen Supra as a reference, since it's lighter then both the 3rd and 4th Gens.

This point makes sense. Especially considering that the RB/240Z swap is common in real life.

For regular Real life swaps, I'd want to see cars like the LS1 Miata/RX-7 or the 20b RX-7, especially since their performance can be easily replicated. Thus getting you the accurate depiction of a real life LS1-swapped Miata.

For one-of-a-kind or just plain ridiculous swaps... I wouldn't care less if they died a fiery death since the majority of people wont care.

 

[shigllgetcha]

This point makes sense. Especially considering that the RB/240Z swap is common in real life.

thats how its done in forza, common swaps and realistic and that was what i was hoping for gt5

 

[Luminis]

For regular Real life swaps, I'd want to see cars like the LS1 Miata/RX-7 or the 20b RX-7, especially since their performance can be easily replicated. Thus getting you the accurate depiction of a real life LS1-swapped Miata.

Wait, do you really consider a beefed up 1.6 litre engine to accurately depict the feel you'd get from a 5.7 litre V8?! Like, really really?

If you do, I guess I'll just keep my mouth shut, seems like all hope is lost here anyways, if that's the case.

 

[hardvibes]

Seirously I just wanted to swap the engine of my Fiat 500

 

[Strittan]

Couldn't care less about engine swaps. In fact I think it would be uncool if was featured.

 

[Terronium-12]

Couldn't care less about engine swaps. In fact I think it would be uncool if was featured.

Uncool? What makes you say that?

 

[Khaddar]

Wait, do you really consider a beefed up 1.6 litre engine to accurately depict the feel you'd get from a 5.7 litre V8?! Like, really really?

If you do, I guess I'll just keep my mouth shut, seems like all hope is lost here anyways, if that's the case.

No, his post said that an in-game LS1-powered Miata would replicate the feeling of driving a real LS1-powered Miata.

 

[Luminis]

No, his post said that an in-game LS1-powered Miata would replicate the feeling of driving a real LS1-powered Miata.

I misunderstood it, then. My bad.

At times, it's a good thing to be wrong

 

[yellowclone]

Oh, I didn't mean you did specifically, just speaking in general terms.

It comes up in the chatroom every once in a while too... just thought I'd mention it. I know I'll be around as often as I can when the game's in my PS3, if only because the PC and the PS3 are about 10ft apart!

Oh ok, it kind of seemed like it because you quoted me, but all is good. I will have my laptop within arms reach in case I do take a little break, or need some help 👍

So , its 9:30 AM now in Las Vegas ? At what time is the presentation then for us here in Europe ?

I believe the award is at 9:00 P.M., so about 6 more hours.

So the Sema thing wasn't Nov 3rd as I first understood, it was Nov 4th... How unusual that things take longer time than first expected when it comes to GT

I think it is today Nov 3, in the US, at 9:00 P.M.



I will give my opionion on engine swaps that might be possible in GT6, but won't make it into GT5. I only want them if we can cross platforms. Meaning, if I want to put a Hemi or a LS1 in a Miata, I want to be able to. I don't want to have to stick to only Mazda's can swap Mazda engines. Although a turbo rotary would be pretty sweet in a Miata. I do think it should stick to the proper drivetrain though, even though it is also possible to put a Hemi or Viper motor into a PT Cruiser (it has been done), it would require a custom chassis and change the configuration of the car (FWD to RWD), and probably be more difficult to add correctly to the game.