News from Sema

  • Thread starter cudadude2
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JGTC is a pretty good example of engine swaps working on a serious racing level. I'd say DTM but that's hardly fitting anymore these days.

Aston arguably pulled an in-house swap by throwing the V12 in the Vantage (though that's a whole other issue).
 
cygnus_zero
So something that is common in the world of racing you dont want in a game that claims to be the real driving simulator, when its closest competitors have been doing it for years? Ok.

If you dont want to mess with engine swaps, thats one thing, but to say you actually would have an issue with it if it were in the game tells me you're probably a GT fanboy and making excuses for one of the games shortcomings.
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Excuse me? Common in the world of racing? We're not talking about building entire race cars from scratch here. In what kind of racing do they switch from one type of engine to something completely different and still race it in the same series?

Call me a fanboy if you like. That just tells me you have absolutely no idea who I am.
 
cygnus_zero
Is there a good reason in existence for not wanting such an important feature in the world of racing in a racing simulator? No. So what is the only other logical answer? He's making excuses for the game.
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Go play online GT5p and try to race a clio with a F430 this is what im talking about.

And for the third time Super gt cars are no normal cars, just the roof is from the serial car.
 
Why do some people immediately come up with the most extreme examples whenever something like a livery editor or in this case engine swaps are discussed?
If a feature like engine swaps ( which ofcourse is optional to use or not ) was implemented within the context of GT and therefore meeting the criteria set by Kaz by definition, wouldn't it be more logical to assume it's done in a more realistic ( what's technically and reasonably possible in real life too ), far more subtly interwoven and taking into account what's 'culturally acceptable' by limiting the possibilities offered in the first place?

So what if there's a certain 'unbeatable' car created due to it? That's just the obvious choice for people with no imagination or who only care about winning....creating boredom is the worst it would do.
The less obvious and more subtle variations would interest me ( as well as the occasional understated 'hooligan' Q-car ) and ofcourse it would change the character/identity/soul of the car, that's the whole point in the first place!
 
analog
Why do some people immediately come up with the most extreme examples
whenever something like a livery editor or in this case engine swaps are discussed?
If a feature like engine swaps ( which ofcourse is optional to use or not ) was implemented within the context of GT and therefore meeting the criteria set by Kaz by definition, wouldn't it be more logical to assume it's done in a more realistic ( what's technically and reasonably possible in real life too ), far more subtly interwoven and taking into account what's 'culturally acceptable' by limiting the possibilities offered in the first place?
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Of course, if it would be done 100% accurately and realistic perhaps even I would play a little with it. But my personal opinion is still that it doesn't go along with the style of GT, and I don't get why people need it so desperately and are disappointed now that it's not included in GT5.
 
Strittan
Of course, if it would be done 100% accurately and realistic perhaps even I would play a little with it. But my personal opinion is still that it doesn't go along with the style of GT, and I don't get why people need it so desperately and are disappointed now that it's not included in GT5.
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FANBOY!

;)

(I don't get how someone could level that at you either, actually)
I'm not surprised at all that it's not included, but it certainly fits with the style of GT, if only because look at the thread we're in: The SEMA thread. Where Kaz hands out awards for cars he personally chooses to include in his game, of which numerous previous winners have had engine swaps.

It would take an enormous amount of calculations to do it justice though, which is exactly why I don't plan on seeing it for a while.
 
analog
Why do some people immediately come up with the most extreme examples whenever something like a livery editor or in this case engine swaps are discussed?
If a feature like engine swaps ( which ofcourse is optional to use or not ) was implemented within the context of GT and therefore meeting the criteria set by Kaz by definition, wouldn't it be more logical to assume it's done in a more realistic ( what's technically and reasonably possible in real life too ), far more subtly interwoven and taking into account what's 'culturally acceptable' by limiting the possibilities offered in the first place?

So what if there's a certain 'unbeatable' car created due to it? That's just the obvious choice for people with no imagination or who only care about winning....creating boredom is the worst it would do.
The less obvious and more subtle variations would interest me ( as well as the occasional understated 'hooligan' Q-car ) and ofcourse it would change the character/identity/soul of the car, that's the whole point in the first place!
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Engine swaps and livery editor are a must for GT6! If you don't like them then don't use them. But after driving both skyline and corvette powered 240sx's engine swaps seem like a god send.
 
Strittan
Of course, if it would be done 100% accurately and realistic perhaps even I would play a little with it. But my personal opinion is still that it doesn't go along with the style of GT, and I don't get why people need it so desperately and are disappointed now that it's not included in GT5.
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I think I came across wrong. I thought it'd be a good idea for a future GT title. I am in no way disappointed that it's not included. I'm sure the game will exceed my expectations.
 
Damnit, you mean I can't take one of the engines off the 747 in the Top Gear track and weld it to the roof of a mini? That's it, the whole game is ruined now. I mean, what's the plane even there for if not to scavenge for parts?

;)

Steve.
 
Strittan
and I don't get why people need it so desperately and are disappointed now that it's not included in GT5.
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Because its fun, thats why, I enjoyed messing with this in Forza, spending many many hours experimenting, and basically just expected it would be in this game, and nope, its not here.
 
Strittan
Of course, if it would be done 100% accurately and realistic perhaps even I would play a little with it. But my personal opinion is still that it doesn't go along with the style of GT, and I don't get why people need it so desperately and are disappointed now that it's not included in GT5.
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Well I don't need it deperately ( what is needed desperately in a videogame anyway? ) but it would add plenty of fun to a lot of people ( still the main point of any videogame ) and with it being realistically done it therefore almost automatically has a place in a GT game in my book.
And the prospect of it being realistic and accurate is why a lot get so excited about it I guess.
The only one who decides what's the "style of GT" is Kaz anyway, when he chooses to include it, it becomes part of that style/heritage whether you or I like it or not.
But to each his own indeed, I'm not disappointed however as I didn't expect it to be included at all though.:)
 
cygnus_zero
Is there a good reason in existence for not wanting such an important feature in the world of racing in a racing simulator? No. So what is the only other logical answer? He's making excuses for the game.
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So, are you going to say the same thing about all of the people who don't want bikes in GT? Are they all fanboys? I mean, they have to be, it is the only logical explanation.

Now, personally I don't really care either way, but if it makes it in eventually I would like to see it done in a realistic way.
 
scope72
So, are you going to say the same thing about all of the people who don't want bikes in GT? Are they all fanboys? I mean, they have to be, it is the only logical explanation.

Now, personally I don't really care either way, but if it makes it in eventually I would like to see it done in a realistic way.
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Bikes are entirely different. There are a lot of people that put engines in cars they werent originally built for.

Bikes are a different type of vehicle, I dont get why someone would complain if they were in it, but the game isnt missing anything without them, since this is a racing game based solely on cars. How you can have a racing sim in 2010 without engine swaps is beyond my understanding.
 
Less than 4 hours to go and I cant find squat!

Please post links to any streams or liveblogs if you know of any and I will update the thread.
 
andrez004
Engine swaps and livery editor are a must for GT6! If you don't like them then don't use them. But after driving both skyline and corvette powered 240sx's engine swaps seem like a god send.
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Why don't you play Forza or Street Legal Racing if you're so fond of engine swaps then? I highly doubt you'll ever be able to fit a Corvette engine into a 240sx in a GT game, but if you will be able to some day, then good for you.
 
cygnus_zero
Bikes are a different type of vehicle, I dont get why someone would complain if they were in it, but the game isnt missing anything without them, since this is a racing game based solely on cars. How you can have a racing sim in 2010 without engine swaps is beyond my understanding.
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iRacing doesn't have engine swaps, and it is the most serious, realistic and most hardcore sim you can get. Used by many real life proffesional race drivers as a training tool, and it's hosting world championship series with real prize money.

In fact, none of the top 5 most serious and realistic sims feature engine swaps.

EDIT: And no, I'm not considering GT5 as one of the top 5 most realistic sims, but I would like it to be some day. With or without engine swaps.
 
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So when is SEMA actually ending? I have read a couple different times, from 9 PM tonight to tomorrow night. Just wondering when we may actually have more info.
 
Strittan
Why don't you play Forza or Street Legal Racing if you're so fond of engine swaps then? I highly doubt you'll ever be able to fit a Corvette engine into a 240sx in a GT game, but if you will be able to some day, then good for you.
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I don't want to come off as rude. But that whole post reeks of ignorance. It mostly sounds like Gran Turismo is "to good" for engine swaps and they should be kept in street racing games.

Also, for the record, the LSX swap is pretty common in a 240SX.
 
I have no problem with engine swaps that are within reason. For example throwing a 351C in a 65 Mustang in place of a stock 289 or a 429 SCJ where a 352 used to be. Or a 327, 350 or even a small block 400 where a 283 used to be. These are all realistic and not that hard to do in real life.

a 426 Hemi in a 65 Mustang is another story.

The thing where Forza really went off the deep end is the drive train swaps and the PI cost of an adjustable tranny. These really limit which cars can be competive and a lot of them make 0 sense. AWD Viper, Ford GT, Boss Mustang, RT Charger but no GM product.

I would even like to see the ability to use parts from one car on another. Say for example I bought a new Mustang and I wanted to put the engine from it into an old Mach 1 ro let's say I have a Ford GT that I have bought everything for semi race and race parts I would like to be able to use the parts that are owned but not installed on a second Ford GT if I have one or for that matter any car on which they should be compatiable.

Porsche Unleased used to allow these kinds of mods in a very realistic manner and was very cool to have that type of option. Not a show stopper but if it was there would be good.
 
The real reason why engine swapping is not in GT5 is the nature of the game and Kaz's perfection ethos. Think about it: 1000 cars, 1000 engine swap combinations, 1000x1000 to 1,000,000 different combinations of cars to calculate, manipulate and program for.

Bolting a Ferrari 458 V8 onto the back of a 1969 Mini (it can be done, and has been done with other V8's) is not a a simple matter of increasing the mini's performance 5 fold in the game. It would change the characteristic of the car entirely, therefore requiring 1000 new handing variations for just that one model of car.

Kaz would not allow the game to be ruined by mere guessing performance change/increase/car handling characteristics by engine swapping into a game that is otherwise a perfect simulator. For it to be possible he would have to buy a mini, buy 1000 different possible engines, do the swaps, run them on the track and record telemetry and program it into the game. AND DO THIS FOR ALL THE OTHER 999 CARS.

Lets get one thing straight: This game he has created is not a bang up job where "She'll be right" will cut it. He is striving for a perfect simulator. To simply FABRICATE performance increases/changes with engine swap will ruin the game and make it anotehr Need For Speed-like title.

Get over it people...
 

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