NFS Shift 2 Unleashed - Details

  • Thread starter LittleLefty
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^ I don't get that though, because KY loves racing. He raced the Nurburgring 24 hour for God sake! I still can't get my head around how so little effort was made in GT5 to simulate racing properly, especially when they included NASCAR, WRC and JGTC.

Oh well, PD's loss is EA's gain, because they seem to be heading in the right direction
 
I still wonder how Kaz experiences racing?!
I mean he raced the 24 Hours of the Nurb and claimed even one of his contact lenses popped out because of the G-Force and Speed. But in GT5 you haven't really the deep expressions of this kind of stuff , and no challenging AI etc...
The race drivers in Shift 2 who try to improve it seem to experience something different than kaz. The Dirty fast agressiv racing.
Well GT5 was always for me a driving simulator but no race simulator. Most of the time I'm hot lapping anyways because fighting the AI is impossible they're not challenging...
Further I wonder how can they put vacuum cleaner sounds... very strange..
 
Cause i do not think Kaz experienced blurring of anything except when he lost his contacts. Just because Shift does blurring, vibrations and in-cockpit movement does mean it's right. Challenging AI ... just get in one of the online leagues, no AI needed.
 
Yes, I'm aware they have their own racing series. I'm just wondering if there's something else in play here to explain why the series hasn't progressed beyond higher polygon counts.

Perhaps that "something" IS Kaz. Maybe he's just more of a car fan than a racing fan, and as long as he helms the project, it'll never be more than what it is now.
Well... First of, I think what's holding GT5 back so much is how focused PD are. So focused in fact, that they don't seem to have the slightest idea what the competition is doing or what their audience (aside from the ever-happy fanboys) want.

I doubt that GT5 is exactly whaat Kaz wanted it to be. I severly doubt that. But I don't doubt that PD went on and developed GT5 like they did with every GT prior to it, completely ignoring what the competition has been doing for half a decade. And that's the whole problem: They're five years behind in terms of game design.
I mean, compare, say, GTA: San Andreas and GTA IV, or Red Dead Redemption. There's a huge progreession between all of those, every single one refininig the whole gaming experience.
Gran Turismo never did that. The biggest thing they've accomplished is a mediocre damage model and repaintable cars. And both of which are limited, even.

But enough about GT... The Shift-team seems to have set game development goals for their title that I as a player share and identify with (I like to RACE opponents who will overtake me and leave me in the dust if I make a mistake, not a train of sightseeing AI drivers who I have to keep track of how many laps I am in front of). SMS also seem to work much more efficiently towards that goal, and I am happy to support such an effort by pre-ordering their game.

👍 I totally agree with that.
Plus, one thing I like about SMS: They seem to keep in touch with their fan base. I mean, I've seen more comunication by SMS with their players through the Speedhunters FAQs then PD ever did.

Cause i do not think Kaz experienced blurring of anything except when he lost his contacts. Just because Shift does blurring, vibrations and in-cockpit movement does mean it's right.
Ever driven a car at high speeds? And I mean, high speeds. Your peripheral vision will start to blur as the environment flies by. Going fast enough, you'll even start to develop a tunnel vision, because most of the stuff that you're not focusing on is bllurring due to the speed.
Of course, a game can hardly simulate that, without a tripple screen setup. However, GT5 not doing anything in that regard is definitely no better than Shift blurring stuff.

Challenging AI ... just get in one of the online leagues, no AI needed.
I still don't get why multyplayer would be an excuse for the lack of a good AI. Especially because you should be able to fill the grid in a multyplayer race with AI drivers...
 
Cause i do not think Kaz experienced blurring of anything except when he lost his contacts. Just because Shift does blurring, vibrations and in-cockpit movement does mean it's right. Challenging AI ... just get in one of the online leagues, no AI needed.

Well blurring of the dashboard is not real yes. But motion blur from the things passing the car definitely. I was driving a serveral times really fast on the german Autobahn even up to 300km/h ~ 190mp/h , there was enough blur lol. Trust me. And my ass bounced up and down in the seat even on a almost flat surface... I don't want to imagine how it feels on the tight Nurb then.
 
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Looks very promising!

I really hope it's the game it's promised to be, because not only will it be fun but it'll make PD sit up and think; they've been pretty slack as we all know. It'll give PD a kick up the arse to get GT6 right...and get it out on time.

.

Why? PD did not set out to make a racing game...they set out to make the best driving game and for many it is, i doubt PD will give a 2nd look to Shift as it's completely the other spectrum to what they do and if you think GT6 will be more like Shift? Not a chance!
 
Why? PD did not set out to make a racing game...they set out to make the best driving game and for many it is, i doubt PD will give a 2nd look to Shift as it's completely the other spectrum to what they do and if you think GT6 will be more like Shift? Not a chance!

Wouldn't a driving game be more like TDU2? With a world to explore, to actually cruise around instead of just race tracks? Race tracks, kinda strange to have nothing but race tracks in a game that isn't about racing.
 
Wouldn't a driving game be more like TDU2? With a world to explore, to actually cruise around instead of just race tracks? Race tracks, kinda strange to have nothing but race tracks in a game that isn't about racing.

Kaz has said that's the direction he wants to take GT games in, I have a feeling GT5 is the start of the "real driving simulator"
 
Wouldn't a driving game be more like TDU2? With a world to explore, to actually cruise around instead of just race tracks? Race tracks, kinda strange to have nothing but race tracks in a game that isn't about racing.

Yeah I don't buy the argument about GT5 not being a racing game. Sure, it's supposed to be more than your average racing game, but a racing game nonetheless.

PD went out of their way to obtain the NASCAR, WRC and JGTC licenses, added fully animated pitstops and a whole bunch of real life race circuits, how can you tell me it's not a racing game?

I appreciate that GT5 does "driving" best, but not because that's all they set out to do, it's because the racing sucks. As above, I would consider Test Drive a "driving" game, but GT5 is clearly a racing game
 
As the GT5 ot keeps going on, AI in career mode is slow, true, damn slow and this is an issue that ruined the game for most of the people, but have you ever played arcade mode at A level? The AI is very challenging over there, PD just need to take that AI and bring it into Aspec career, and of course some more events, but arcade mode is a good way to have some fun against good AI drivers, you can race with your favourites cars, give it a go you got nothing to loose. / end OT

Coming back to Shift 2, It's nice to see all those supported wheels. And autolog could be a interesting feature for organize some time attacks, is it car specific? Or it is the overall best lap?
 
As the GT5 ot keeps going on, AI in career mode is slow, true, damn slow and this is an issue that ruined the game for most of the people, but have you ever played arcade mode at A level? The AI is very challenging over there, PD just need to take that AI and bring it into Aspec career, and of course some more events, but arcade mode is a good way to have some fun against good AI drivers, you can race with your favourites cars, give it a go you got nothing to loose. / end OT

Coming back to Shift 2 It's nice to see all those supported wheels.

The A AI level in Arcade is no different, as soon as you pick a car from your garage you are gone!
 
Kaz has said that's the direction he wants to take GT games in, I have a feeling GT5 is the start of the "real driving simulator"

You know, GT had the tagline 'The Real Driving Simulator' from day one, from GT1. And back in the day, nobody would've thought to make the point that it's a driving game, instead of a racing game.

Hell, the only people I have even heard aknowledge that something like a 'driving game' genre exists are GT fans. Usually those who try to find a reason why GT is the best at what it wants to do. And if it isn't, just find a reason why it wants to do something where it has no real competition.

sounds like Ferrari to me :lol:

As the GT5 ot keeps going on, AI in career mode is slow, true, damn slow and this is an issue that ruined the game for most of the people, but have you ever played arcade mode at A level? The AI is very challenging over there, PD just need to take that AI and bring it into Aspec career, and of course some more events, but arcade mode is a good way to have some fun against good AI drivers, you can race with your favourites cars, give it a go you got nothing to loose. / end OT

The AI is no different in Arcade Mode. They just get more powerful cars than you do. Way more powerful. That's basically PD aknowleding that the AI is horribly slow. It's pretty easy to notice, too:
You'll be closing in on them/overtaking them in every corner and lose out on the straights.

That's one thing that impressed me a bit when I saw the Shift video showing the 911 RSRs racing: The Ai kept up while driving the same car :D
 
^ I agree, the AI is no better in arcade mode. If it was, I would spend 90% of my time there because I have no interest in completing the game. As long as I have cars to race, I am happy doing arcade races
 
I found that when I really thought about it, GT games are really just hotlap simulators. My fondest memories are of pushing for the golds on license tests, wiping off hundredths of seconds over many laps, or hotlapping against a friend taking turns with my DFPro. Can't remember a single Career moment that stood out :( To me the physics seem like just a decent generalisation, but I won't get into that as it's going way OT...

One thing that really impressed me in the Shift 2 gameplay shown so far is the video of the Golf V vs Golf V upgraded. When it goes through the chicanes (around 0:50) the suspension and sideways movement just looks so natural, and the following corner slide looks very good too.

Can't wait to play it, just wish there were big banners at the top of each video stating which assists are on/what mode...
 
As the GT5 ot keeps going on, AI in career mode is slow, true, damn slow and this is an issue that ruined the game for most of the people, but have you ever played arcade mode at A level? The AI is very challenging over there, PD just need to take that AI and bring it into Aspec career, and of course some more events, but arcade mode is a good way to have some fun against good AI drivers, you can race with your favourites cars, give it a go you got nothing to loose. / end OT

Coming back to Shift 2, It's nice to see all those supported wheels. And autolog could be a interesting feature for organize some time attacks, is it car specific? Or it is the overall best lap?

Yes I played arcade mode at A level and the AI is still junk! Admittedly not as junk as A-Spec but still junk and very slow.

But in my opinion the fact the AI is slow is not the worst thing. They can't provide you with a realistic/convincing racing experience! For example:
  • You have the inside line on a curve and they hit you on the side like you are not even there!
  • When they hit you you hear the infamous hollow "boop" sound!!
  • The collision physics are pathetic!!
  • You can use them as cushions to get around the corners faster! You don't have any incentive to try to prevent collisions or risk anything when trying to pass them! The whole point of racing is to plan your moves and that for every move you make to gain a position there is a potential risk to lose one or more positions! GT5 fails miserably in that aspect!
  • Their cars behave like they have 2-3 times the mass of your car since you can't push them of the racing line (thus resulting in my previous point)! Or like scaletrix cars since some kind of invisible force keeps them on the racing line!
  • I have never once seen AI cars in GT5 have a battle for position! So there goes the tactic of waiting for a battle to play out and try to take advantage...
  • They don't try to block you! They don't defend their position! Only in Nordschleife I have seen constantly zig-zagging on a straight and that isn't realistic! They constantly follow the racing line!
  • I would like the AI to show character! Play dirty and they seek revenge! But in GT5 they are as lifeless as they were in GT3 and GT4
  • And many more examples I forget...

Most importantly, I find GT5's AI frustrating!
They are a moving obstacle (like debris on the track) and not an opponent! I have never become frustrated with the Shift AI even when they act mad! Actually they act mad when you treat them likes GT5's AI. If you treat them as real racing opponents they provide a realistic experience!

In Shift on hard difficulty the AI is a real racing challenge!
For example 5 laps at Road America with 15 opponents!
I enter the first corner very conservative cause I know there will be a major pile-up! In the second corner I have gained one or two places (sometimes I even lose places) and then I must chase them and pass them one by one! When 2 AI cars battle in front of me I stay behind waiting to take advantage. When I chase car sometimes it makes a mistake and I pass it. Other times I pass it on the brakes. Sometimes in the next corner it passes me back and I must give space or he will crash on me and then (due to realistic collision physics) we would end in the gravel trap. And after 5 laps of constant wheel to wheel action you may win or may not win the race! But you would have fun racing with fast AI that provides a challenge and that forces you to drive cleanly if you want a racing game and not a destruction-derby!

Anyway... this is not the GT5 forum! Take you GT5 propaganda to the proper threads!
 
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^ It was a bit of a read but yeah, some good points. Especially the point about taking the inside line and the STUPID collision sounds. I don't know why that bothers me so much but I just can't deal with it
 
So they are trying to make a point that their game is more immersive, but can't ignore the second point they are making that crashing into other cars is a important part of their game...
 
I like how when you see an AI car in the rear view in Shift you worry. That and the crash impacts, not being able to carry on after smashing into a wall is nice.
 
So they are trying to make a point that their game is more immersive, but can't ignore the second point they are making that crashing into other cars is a important part of their game...

I think the crash in the video was just to show about the consequences. In the GT5 footage you see a crash into the vette with a weird sound and nothing happens further.
 
I hope Kaz watched that... For a long time the GT series inspired and influenced other racing sims. Unless future patches and DLC fix it, GT5 will be remembered as the one that made it fall behind the rest of the pack. This video footage speaks volumes. Can't wait.
 
So they are trying to make a point that their game is more immersive, but can't ignore the second point they are making that crashing into other cars is a important part of their game...

Crashing just ruins your car and your race in Shift, it's not like other NFS games.
 
So they are trying to make a point that their game is more immersive, but can't ignore the second point they are making that crashing into other cars is a important part of their game...

What it did show (to me) is that you can't wrestle your way past opposing cars by slamming into them in Shift 2 as opposed to GT5 and Forza, where you can plow right through.
But they should've turned the BGM off for the GT5 bit. I mean, it shows just how much BGM kills the immersion, in my opinion, but it make it look worse than it is.

Graphically... Well, dunno. I think Shift 2 looks good, but I'm not too keen on the blurring cockpit. Then again, when raacing, I'm focusing on the road part of the screen that depicts the windshield (and, thus, the road ahead behind it) that I don't really notice it all that much.
 
So they are trying to make a point that their game is more immersive, but can't ignore the second point they are making that crashing into other cars is a important part of their game...

Yeah i thought they were toning down all the aggression carry on? Rubbin is racing...smashing opponents off the track is not 👎
 
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