NHL Season 2012-2013
- Thread starter Tzun
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Joel
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- Noob616
You're arguing semantics. Defensive play, systems, dangling. None of it makes up for the massive difference in offense between the two. We're talking about a 20 point difference over 35 games. It is not even close, and for a 1st line center offense is the most important thing. Two way play is great and Datsyuk is awesome because he's great defensively and scores at the same or a better rate than most 1st line centers, but Crosby's rate of scoring is so much higher than Datsyuk's that it isn't even comparable. There's also that Crosby isn't bad defensively either, he's a good two way player as well, so it's not like we're talking about someone clueless at his own end of the ice.
1.4PPG vs .98
That isn't a "systems" difference. It's a huge difference in talent, and it can't be argued away with defense and intangibles.
1.4PPG vs .98
That isn't a "systems" difference. It's a huge difference in talent, and it can't be argued away with defense and intangibles.
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Joel
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Again, none of that accounts for a .4 PPG difference. That isn't "systems", or "defense vs. offense", it's skill and Crosby's abundance of it. There's also that Crosby is so good offensively that he's in the other team's zone most of the time. He drives puck possession so well that he isn't constantly holed up in his own zone. I get that you want to appreciate defense because the average fan over rates offense, I totally understand that, but when the offensive difference is so hilariously large you can't just throw it away by saying Datsyuk has to play defense (as if Crosby doesn't try to prevent other teams from scoring).
There's a stat that measures a player's +/- per 60 minutes of ice time. Crosby is at a 2.88, meaning for every 60 minutes he's on the ice, his team out scores the other team by 2.88 goals. For Datsyuk, it's 1.33. For every 60 minutes of ice time he gets, Crosby's team gets 2.88 more goals than the other team, while 60 minutes of ice time for Datsyuk leads to a 1.33 goals difference over the opposition.
That accounts for Datsyuk's defensive skills, as +/- adds a point for scoring a goal and subtracts one for allowing a goal. Datsyuk allows less goals per 60 minutes, but Crosby scores so many more points that when he's on the ice the Penguins will score 2.88 more goals than the opposition. This is objective statistics that takes both Crosby's offense and Datsyuk's defense into account. The object of hockey is to score more goals than the other team, and Crosby is creating 2.88 more goals than he gives up for every 60 minutes of time, while Datsyuk only creates 1.33.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1382097&highlight=
I don't like doing this but this is the biggest hockey forum in the world, and in a poll for the best player in the league Crosby outvoted Datsyuk 147-3. And this is a board that hates him too, everyone calls him Cindy or a sissy or whatever, but they still recognize that he has currently unmatched talent. I love Datsyuk and he's one of my favourite players, but calling him better than Crosby is ridiculous.
There's a stat that measures a player's +/- per 60 minutes of ice time. Crosby is at a 2.88, meaning for every 60 minutes he's on the ice, his team out scores the other team by 2.88 goals. For Datsyuk, it's 1.33. For every 60 minutes of ice time he gets, Crosby's team gets 2.88 more goals than the other team, while 60 minutes of ice time for Datsyuk leads to a 1.33 goals difference over the opposition.
That accounts for Datsyuk's defensive skills, as +/- adds a point for scoring a goal and subtracts one for allowing a goal. Datsyuk allows less goals per 60 minutes, but Crosby scores so many more points that when he's on the ice the Penguins will score 2.88 more goals than the opposition. This is objective statistics that takes both Crosby's offense and Datsyuk's defense into account. The object of hockey is to score more goals than the other team, and Crosby is creating 2.88 more goals than he gives up for every 60 minutes of time, while Datsyuk only creates 1.33.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1382097&highlight=
I don't like doing this but this is the biggest hockey forum in the world, and in a poll for the best player in the league Crosby outvoted Datsyuk 147-3. And this is a board that hates him too, everyone calls him Cindy or a sissy or whatever, but they still recognize that he has currently unmatched talent. I love Datsyuk and he's one of my favourite players, but calling him better than Crosby is ridiculous.
Joel
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- Noob616
this is hopeless.Pittsburgh is good because of Sidney Crosby and that gets held against him, but Datsyuk isn't good enough to make the Red Wings that good yet somehow he's better than Crosby? If he was better than Crosby, there wouldn't be such a difference in the stats. The 2005-06 Penguins finished last in the East but Crosby still managed to put up 102 points as an 18 year old on a team far worse than the Wings have been in decades. Accuse me of looking at numbers all you want, but the fact of the matter is the stats are a result of a player's skill, and Crosby's completely blow Datsyuk's out of the water. I appreciate what Datsyuk does with Abdelkader and Cleary as linemates, and that's why I think he's in the top 5 (either #4 or 5 depending on what you think of Karlsson), but he's not better than Crosby and I don't know how there's a debate.
I'm not a huge Crosby fan (although I'm not a hater), and I get that people hate him, but you can't deny his talent.
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- 1,810
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- juhna96
D Thats life for you Stats does not tell the truth. I mean look at John Tavares. Yes Matt Moulsons good but everything else is not helping him. Just think of he was in some other team. He is amazing. Just to say he wants to stay in NYI and win the Cup there. He deserves a ton of respect just with that comment.
Joel
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Noob616
Tzun
Your honour, I rest my case.
EDIT: I know statistics are some kind of black magic around here despite the object of hockey being to score more goals than the other team, but Crosby has 41 assists and the 2nd place guy for points behind him has 44 points. He's on pace to have more assists this year than anyone else has points. And he's scored 15 goals already. Unbelievable.
Just as an aside, Crosby has 41 assists and Datsyuk has 35 points. Just sayin.
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- 184
- Hong Kong
- JONNYHAHA88
Yeah it was kinda a dbag move by Feaster not giving a heads up to chiarelli about allowing iggy a choice of teams he wants. Boston's offer wasn't good but it was ALOT better than what we got from Pitt. I'm just glad Iggy is gonna have a shot at the cup, for a guy whose been carrying the entire team on his back for so many years+ amount of unrealistic expectations placed around him
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- JMarine25
The Penguins won 2-0 over the visiting New York Islanders earlier today to extend their winning streak to 15 games, but it is a bittersweet victory. Sidney Crosby left the game in the first period as he somehow got hit in the mouth with a puck. Ouch.
Only other completed game as of now was Boston at Philadelphia. The Flyers won 3-1 over the Boston Bruins.
Only other completed game as of now was Boston at Philadelphia. The Flyers won 3-1 over the Boston Bruins.
- 3,460
- Hollywood
- 26,910
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- JMarine25
Sidney Crosby is out indefinitely with a broken jaw. It still has to hurt like crap to have the puck whack you in your jaw. Probably has to hurt more than taking a haymaker right to your jaw. Got to hurt. Get well soon, Sidney Crosby.
