No Love For The Oldies?
- Thread starter Saladine12
- 287 comments
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- 906
You'd say no to a Fiat Dino 2400 Spider or an Alfa TZ1? They are neither boring nor ugly. Those cars probably have more character and soul than the R35 GTR ever will.
- 24,063
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
I usually reject calling old cars as "oldies." It's like when someone called old cars as "antiques." The proper term for me is "vintage." Not oldie. Not antique. Vintage.
Now on to Post #150 from Street Racer 77. Ugly and useless = Alfa Romeo? Please. I LOVE that Spider 1600 Duetto and even the classic Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA 1600. The Spider 1600 Duetto is a beautiful car from front bumper to rear bumper. It's even lovely to let the top down with this car. I find classic Alfas to be quite beautiful... or should I say, bellissima (Italian for "beautiful"). Trust me. It's a beautiful car from an Italian company that isn't Ferrari or Lamborghini. I'm one of the biggest '80s haters of anyone (take it from a guy who follows fashion and sometimes pop culture). So I'd rather some vintage muscle than something of the '80s. I love a muscle car myself, but I have more respect for classic cars than to call the Alfas ugly. And if you think all Alfa Romeos are ugly, then look up these Alfas:
* http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/969/Alfa-Romeo-33--Periscopica--Spyder.html (the Alfa Romeo 33 Spyder)
* http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/968/Alfa-Romeo-33-Stradale.html (Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale)
Speaking of Ferrari, I'd imagine we'll see more classic Ferraris featured. This goes back to a past storyline on Ferrari in GT5.
Now on to Post #150 from Street Racer 77. Ugly and useless = Alfa Romeo? Please. I LOVE that Spider 1600 Duetto and even the classic Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA 1600. The Spider 1600 Duetto is a beautiful car from front bumper to rear bumper. It's even lovely to let the top down with this car. I find classic Alfas to be quite beautiful... or should I say, bellissima (Italian for "beautiful"). Trust me. It's a beautiful car from an Italian company that isn't Ferrari or Lamborghini. I'm one of the biggest '80s haters of anyone (take it from a guy who follows fashion and sometimes pop culture). So I'd rather some vintage muscle than something of the '80s. I love a muscle car myself, but I have more respect for classic cars than to call the Alfas ugly. And if you think all Alfa Romeos are ugly, then look up these Alfas:
* http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/969/Alfa-Romeo-33--Periscopica--Spyder.html (the Alfa Romeo 33 Spyder)
* http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/968/Alfa-Romeo-33-Stradale.html (Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale)
Speaking of Ferrari, I'd imagine we'll see more classic Ferraris featured. This goes back to a past storyline on Ferrari in GT5.
- 1,002
This=win, and trufe, and pwn, all wrapped up into one big ball.
- 702
- Amsterdam
- B_Spilner_BNR34
Nice statement, so the same counts for a F430, gallardo and 997 turbo because they have the same amount of computers as the GT-R. And you probably would also ignore the GT-R 's 40 year history when you call it soul less (didn't know the GT-R has been that long around).
McLaren
Premium
- 45,736
- Texas
The 997 Turbo & Gallardo have nowhere near the same amount of computers driving them. And a big chunk of the F430's computers are only active when you say so. The GT-R's computers are on all the time pretty much, and are a large reason as to why it's so fast. The 3 exotics you listed require quite a bit of skill to drive to their fullest potential. The GT-R takes skill, but you've got some assistance in doing so.
And history has nothing to do with the soul of a car. The F40 has the soul of a 1960's Ferrari race car. The F430, not really.
And history has nothing to do with the soul of a car. The F40 has the soul of a 1960's Ferrari race car. The F430, not really.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,736
- Texas
That doesn't disprove the fact that the GT-R has more computers running it than any of the cars you mentioned. When you turn off everything in the 3 exotics, the car really relies on your inputs alone with pretty much zero correcting by the computer. The GT-R, though, is still being run by a computer when you turn everything off. You make a slight mistake, & the GT-R has the ability to correct you, or adapt to your mistake.
It's a computer on wheels, plain & simple. As Clarkson said, it's a car you expect to be driving with a Playstation controller.
It's a computer on wheels, plain & simple. As Clarkson said, it's a car you expect to be driving with a Playstation controller.
- 702
- Amsterdam
- B_Spilner_BNR34
Clarkson says so many stupid thing, that i don't take any of his comments seriously. And how does the Gallardo let je make mistakes, when you can't turn the traction controle off.
I realy hate when people say the GT-R only a good car thanks to its computers. Nissan bild a car with one of the best turbo charged engine's on the planet, and a perfectly ballanced chasie. Don''t hate it.
- 906
Who's hating on the Nissan? We're saying that compared to an older sports car, the GT-R is rather lacking in soul. We never said it was bad or less capable.
Any driving aid disconnects you from the driving experience. To give you an example, I drive an '84 911 and a '91 Miata. The 911 has no ps, the Mazda does. While both are very capable handling machines, I feel so much more connected to the road in the 911 than the Mazda. Now, when compared to my cousin's EVO IX, the Mazda has a much rawer and purer feel. All 3 cars are very capable, but all of the technology in the Evo makes the drive less involving...Therefore, feels soulless compared to older sports cars even though it's faster.
Go out and drive an older sports car (70s-80s 911, Esprit, Orig. Mini, etc.). The lack of power steering, ABS, traction control gives the driver such a pure driving experience that pretty much no modern car can match.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,736
- Texas
But, Clarkson is technically right. He had 2 more comments regarding that car.
"It's a bit like a camera. It's quite clever, but...it's got no excitement."
And I don't understand what you're saying at all. The Gallardo won't let you make any mistakes when you turn everything off just like the F430 & 997 Turbo. They don't have computers constantly watching the car's movement like the GT-R.
I never said I hated it.
But the FACT is, the GT-R is practically run by computers. A lot of the GT-R's incredible times can be thanked by its computers.
- 30,028
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
I don't think he's denying that the GT-R is controlled by very clever computers, he's just being defensive because he likes the car. At the end of the day though, he does have a point, whether a car has sould, or character, whichever you prefer to use, is completely personal. Just because a lot of people will say "the computers take away the cars soul" that doesn't mean there's no one out there who thinks the opposite, that the computers are just another step to automotive perfection.
My avatar should give you a clear idea of my stance on the matter, but it is a personal thing. You can't say he's wrong just because it doesn't appeal to you, that's like me arguing that red is a better colour than blue to someone who loves blue more than red.
My avatar should give you a clear idea of my stance on the matter, but it is a personal thing. You can't say he's wrong just because it doesn't appeal to you, that's like me arguing that red is a better colour than blue to someone who loves blue more than red.
- 702
- Amsterdam
- B_Spilner_BNR34
Please just compare the murcielago with the diablo. And you will see that the new lamborgini's are't so pure as you think they are.
The GT-R does have a lot of computers, but the most is in the 4WD system. But things like the traction controle are all of when they do nurburgring laps. because they actualy slow you down. But them not wanting to admit that the gallardo and F430 are as full with computer as the GT-R, is just funny.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,736
- Texas
This has nothing to do with the discussion, and I never said they were. I already know the newer Lamborghinis aren't as pure as the older ones. And I know that even though the Murcielago isn't as mean as the Diablo, it still has a little bit of soul the Diablo had.
But again, none of this was even said before, and it appears you're just grasping for straws.
And they aren't. If you got the JDM-biased ignorance out of your eyes, you might be able to see that.
- 1,002
No, it just needs 70 more than Nissan rated it as. ya know, since they wanted it to seem like the big "supercar killer" and all. turns out it needs 550, an overly complex AWD system, a system of total overkill when it comes to electronics, that are so picky the car, in it's stock form, is close to unmodifiable. and the ZR-1 is pushing 620, IIRC. and, it's on those "Ancient leaf springs that make a car so it can't trun, y0"
This is hilarious. Didn't LOTUS design the chassis? lol.
Unless he's praising the GTR, I'm sure. then he's the God off all things car.
- 3,008
- You're crazy if you think
- I can afford either of these.
- 702
- Amsterdam
- B_Spilner_BNR34
No sorry.
Don't worry about hte GTR's tuning capability's, Amuse has the GTR already on 620BHP. Without any big modifications.
The difference is very smal, the R34 even had things the R35 doesn't have like 4 wheel steering. But when you compare the diablo with the Murcielago you realy see it.
Don't kid me euro fanboy.
- 906
Yep, very small...It's just a 500 lbs difference.
The R35 is HUGE...not to mention porky!
I know you were referring to electronic aids. But weight and size makes a really big difference in terms of feel.
On the subject of computers, I'm willing to bet that the R35's is way more complex and advanced than the R34s.
And yes, the essence of soul is subjective and largely depends on the cars you've been exposed to. I'm sure the NSX is more soulful than the R35, but compared to older F-car and P-cars, the NSX doesn't have as much character.
- 24,063
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Wow, i always thought the R33 and R34 were big cars. That R35 is huge!
- 345
- Germany at Nürburgring
i don´t said that alfas are ugly, i only said that they are usless in an race game!! i like many old alfas but i don´t wanna drive them in an race game.
in real live i like classic cars, too. they had there on charakter and if you sit in one you have an special feeling. but in gt4 there were usless i think. and they would be in gt5 usless, too.
- 24,063
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Not if you race against other classic cars.
- 69
- FREEMASON007
- SALADINE1
A little off topic, but which BMW Race Car had that awesome soundtrack.
Was it the CSL 'Batman' or the 80's E30?
Was it the CSL 'Batman' or the 80's E30?
- 1,002
^except you'd actually be right.
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
Those useless in racing? The two Daimlers and that Ford Model T (not that I unlocked it) are useless to race. Dude, I shown you TWO beautiful Alfa Romeo race cars. I don't know... I guess you can't convince everyone about everything...
