No wheel? Don't bother with the controller on this demo

[arora]

Fair enough. On the complaint though, people complain, give feedbacks, because they care.

Which is good, and I believe developers look at that, like how the demo states all pertinant info about ones lap the way we've been doing OLR for ever, and other things I've noticed tailored to the gaming comune.

For me, it annoys me how quick, not directed at you, but how some of you jump on anybody who criticize. Especially here of all places.

Most of that is tongue and cheek, we like to have fun and poke. It does cross the line sometimes as emotions rise.

We can't agree on everything, all the time, and there is nothing wrong with it. No need to degrade others for not agreeing with you.

If we all agreed all the time there would be no point to having this board at all. I think "degrading" is mostly the result of thick skin and thick heads of us all 👍

 

[trevisio]

Don't you realize that even if the throttle was perfectly linear on the controller, you still would ultimately be at a large disadvantage to a proficient wheel user, simply because you don't have the ability to be as precise with your input??? May I ask, then what? Would you still be saying: "No wheel? Don't bother with the controller on this demo"?



You still don't get the point of this game, nor the the competition GT doesn't need to be dumbed down so that both input devices are capable of achieving the same times.

Sorry if my bluntness offends you...I'm just tired of these lame complaints and excuses. Yes there is an issue with the throttle linearity on the controller which I have absolutely no problem admitting to...but please don't act like you're at a disadvantage simply because of that particular issue, and that if it weren't for that you would no longer be at a disadvantage to a wheel user Because you still would, and you would still be complaining and making excuses in that case to.

Do you have an XBOX? I do and there is no disadvantage whatsoever in using their controller on the most realistic racing game available - RACE PRO. That is why all this ridiculous "a wheel will always be superior" argument is completely worthless. Only on PS3 where the software programming is deliberately designed to benefit wheel users is a controller at a disadvantage

 

[Neenor]

Just buy a damn wheel, it's so much more fun!

 

[BolgOfThe North]

Most people don't buy a wheel because they are "dummies" and are being forced to buy one, they buy one because it makes the experience about 10 times more fun, so stop being a pathetic skinflint and join the driving simulation sensation.

 

[F1 fan]

Do you have an XBOX? I do and there is no disadvantage whatsoever in using their controller on the most realistic racing game available - RACE PRO. That is why all this ridiculous "a wheel will always be superior" argument is completely worthless. Only on PS3 where the software programming is deliberately designed to benefit wheel users is a controller at a disadvantage

Will someone please shut this guy up? Seriously... I know that rather than start an arguement, I should just ignore it all together, but I can't let this slip by without at least voicing my opinion...

First of all, this game wasn't specifically programmed to force people to buy a steering wheel. It just happens that having a steering wheel is easier (for some) because it is a more natural feeling. With my DFGT, I have 900 degree steering and can smoothly apply throttle the throttle and brake easier than I can with a pad.

I have played the academy demo, but since I don't have internet access at home, I have to take my ps3 to a friends house and he doesn't have anywhere I can clamp the wheel. I'm left with no option but to use the controller. You don't hear me moaning "this was programmed to give people with a wheel an advantage", "the whole world is against me", "Someone stole my dolphin" "Moan moan moan moan moan moan moan moan moan moan moan moan"

Fact is, at the end of the day, people have done very well with the control pad, so there is not some conspiracy against you. The fact of the matter is that people are better at GT than you and you just have to accept that... The closest I got was 758th, but since I haven't played it in weeks, that's probably leapt to >10, 000. Most people who play GT academy would love to be racing drivers. I've dreamt of it all my life, but I don't have the budget, and I'm not quick enough on academy... There's always next time etc...

And I seriously recommend that you buy a wheel... They give you more control of the game, and IMO, make it even more fun to play.

And I wasn't brainwashed. My DFGT was an impulse buy.

Anyway, I'm off home soon for the weekend... Peace.

 

[kayman]

Do you have an XBOX? I do and there is no disadvantage whatsoever in using their controller on the most realistic racing game available - RACE PRO. That is why all this ridiculous "a wheel will always be superior" argument is completely worthless. Only on PS3 where the software programming is deliberately designed to benefit wheel users is a controller at a disadvantage

I suggest you read the following comments on the xbox ffb wheel before you comment any more. (Scroll down to FFB Controller).

http://www.simhq.com/_motorsports4/motorsports_140d2.html

In this case since the wheel is utter rubbish, your point is moot!

Also you didnt mention what cars you had driven in real life that have a controller for steering, thottle and brake. Im interested in this type of technology so if you could please let us know so I can go test this against more conventional control methods, that would be ace!

 

[Joey D]

I think a lot of you are getting one thing mixed up, video games != real life.

Real life cars not being driven with a controller means nothing, these aren't real cars but rather on screen representations of cars governed by a bunch of programming.

 

[kayman]

I think a lot of you are getting one thing mixed up, video games != real life.

Real life cars not being driven with a controller means nothing, these aren't real cars but rather on screen representations of cars governed by a bunch of programming.

These cars are indeed on screen representations, but they are increasingly being governed by real world calculations, therefore an unfamilar input it is most certainly going to be more difficult to control the car.

Without doubt this is why PD has decided to create two physics versions. As the closer they got to Kaz's vision of a "real driving simulator" they realised they were making it harder for their main user base to control their on screen vehicle.

 

[Adam41]

How much is a sixaxis? £30? I've had my ps3 for little more than 2 years and all that prologue has made the left analogue stick on both of my controllers very 'sticky' and they don't centralise properly.

How much is a wheel? Well, I bought my first ever wheel, a G25 for £100 last month. Now I don't know how much a DFP (or similar) is, but if you're going to moan about wheel users having the advantage, then spend a little more money and get a wheel. It will be worth it, as 99% of wheel users will agree, you will no longer be at a disadvantage and you will be rewarded when using a wheel when playing a driving game.

 

[Joey D]

Except with a video game you'll never be able to recreate real life. It just isn't possible for a computer to do currently, nor in the foreseeable future.

The PS3 is a gaming console that was designed to be used with a controller, therefore all games should be able to be played with said controller. We assume there will be two physics modes, which is something I'm cool with. However my fear is they will make the standard mode still to difficult to have any enjoyment for a controller user.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Just imagine (and I really want you to picture yourself in your car doing this) if your real life car steering wheel only turned 5mm either way, and that was lock to lock on your wheels... and imagine that the accelerator and brake pedal only moved 2mm and that was the difference between idle and full open throttle (or nothing and STANDING on the brakes)... Imagine what a cock-up you'd make of even pulling away, turning through 90 degress and stopping smoothly - Let alone trying to wheel an M3 around the Nordschleife in under 7:46!

 

[F1 fan]

Except with a video game you'll never be able to recreate real life. It just isn't possible for a computer to do currently, nor in the foreseeable future.

The PS3 is a gaming console that was designed to be used with a controller, therefore all games should be able to be played with said controller. We assume there will be two physics modes, which is something I'm cool with. However my fear is they will make the standard mode still to difficult to have any enjoyment for a controller user.

Well, I have had prologue since release and I've used a dualshock 3 from then until December 26th 2009. I still found the game highly enjoyable with the pad. And I've not had a chance to use my DFGT with academy, and I still thought it handled like a dream.

My only concern is the whole performance points system. I know my stuff when it comes to racing, but know very little about cars. For all of the pp enforced races in gt5p, I had to try several different cars and setups over and over until I found a good match.

I don't think they should force those who aren't exactly knowledgable about cars to fruitlessly tinker with gear ratios until they can produce a car capable of winning. I want a driving simulator, not a mechanic simulator... So how about a more in depth performance matching system, done by the computer.

Lastly, the penalty's have to be revised. So many times in GT5P, I was innocently bumped into, and I was penalised, sending me to the back of the field. Case in point, Turn 1 at suzuka, I stayed in formation, and left plenty of space all around. I took care to stick to the apex, and made sure I controlled my braking so I didn't hit the car in front.

The driver to the left of me wildly smacked into my car, knocking me off the track, and giving me a penalty, so I had to slowly make my way back to the circuit, and ended up several seconds down in 16th. These two problems alone turned these races into an irritating, two day long "restart race and swear uncontrollably fest" (catchy name, I know ).

I really hope this has been sorted for gt5. I imagine a lot of people (including myself, obviously) will have problems with GT5 if this hasn't been fixed.

 

[Stevisiov]

Except with a video game you'll never be able to recreate real life. It just isn't possible for a computer to do currently, nor in the foreseeable future.

The PS3 is a gaming console that was designed to be used with a controller, therefore all games should be able to be played with said controller. We assume there will be two physics modes, which is something I'm cool with. However my fear is they will make the standard mode still to difficult to have any enjoyment for a controller user.

You've played GTPrologue, you have surely played standard physics, I am sure you will agree, there is nothing too tricky about standard physics, as such its likely that you are worrying about something that most likely will not be a problem.

 

[Imari]

Both GT5P and the demo are both completely playable with the controller, in either physics mode. Even the dexterity requirements are pretty low unless you're using N class tyres, which are intentionally difficult.

But I wouldn't expect to be competitive with a pad against someone with a wheel. Not because it's a corporate conspiracy or anything, but a wheel is a better tool for the job. It's designed specifically for one type of game, and it's very good at it. A controller is designed to be OK for a wide range of different game types.

I can sympathise with people objecting to them artificially fiddling with the accelerator linearity, but one has to assume that they did it because they thought it made it easier for people to drive. PD has been shown to be a pretty bright company, and I can't imagine they intentionally made their control scheme worse.

At the end of the day, a wheel is designed purposefully to be better than the controller, or there would be no point buying it. It doesn't need PD gimping the controller to be better.

 

[Joey D]

You've played GTPrologue, you have surely played standard physics, I am sure you will agree, there is nothing too tricky about standard physics, as such its likely that you are worrying about something that most likely will not be a problem.

I did have issues with Prologue, I found the cars to handle pretty odd and it made the game a bit frustrating. It's one of the reasons why I traded it in after a couple of weeks. However, this was pre-patch/update so things could have changed.

I never had a problem on any of the other GT's though.

 

[Lucas]

Some people (you included) want the realism of the physics to be sacrificed so the cars are easier to drive, when this completely goes against the motto of the GT series, as the "the real driving simulator". Lets face it already...

Please point out where has someone, or better said, the person you are replying to, said that he was willing to sacrifice the physics of the game.

And the motto of the GT series has been broken already, with the need of "Professional" physics (all physics should be the same, by your logic), plus in previous installations with the "simulation tires". I don't get it, if this is a simulation game, shouldn't all the tires be "simulation tires"?


It's pretty easy, actually. Those who have a wheel have an advantage over those who have a controller. Give any driver enough time with both, and he will likely tell you the wheel is better. I don't want to make the game easier for me, I want the controller to be able to do what a wheel does (though I personally don't have any trouble using the DS2 on GT4). That doesn't mean I want physics to be easier for me compared to a wheel user, and I think people have made that clear in this thread.

If people are complaining about this, it is because they have a reason to. Not everyone has enough money to buy the best hardware available, and you should know this. Kids shouldn't work to pay for hardware just to be a few seconds faster at a track.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I hope to have a wheel in place by the time GT5 is released. There is no doubt that 5 will be the most realistic, and therefore "hardest" of the series so far. To be honest, it is already taking the shine off it for me. I'm not saying it's impossible to achieve the same lap times with a Controller as it is a wheel, it just requires alot more skill (FAR FAR greater sensitivity and accuracy) IMO, and therefore turning in great laps is alot harder, there comes a point where the frustration takes over from the enjoyment, and even cancels out the sense of satisfaction you get at the end.

I don't want it to be easy, but I don't want to be handicapped either, just because my wallet can't stand the expense.

 

[Raitziger]

Using wheel new TT demo, drifting physics are much harder than real life but you sure can find out some talent with those physics settings

 

[The Outlaw]

Please point out where has someone, or better said, the person you are replying to, said that he was willing to sacrifice the physics of the game.

And the motto of the GT series has been broken already, with the need of "Professional" physics (all physics should be the same, by your logic), plus in previous installations with the "simulation tires". I don't get it, if this is a simulation game, shouldn't all the tires be "simulation tires"?


It's pretty easy, actually. Those who have a wheel have an advantage over those who have a controller. Give any driver enough time with both, and he will likely tell you the wheel is better. I don't want to make the game easier for me, I want the controller to be able to do what a wheel does (though I personally don't have any trouble using the DS2 on GT4). That doesn't mean I want physics to be easier for me compared to a wheel user, and I think people have made that clear in this thread.

If people are complaining about this, it is because they have a reason to. Not everyone has enough money to buy the best hardware available, and you should know this. Kids shouldn't work to pay for hardware just to be a few seconds faster at a track.

I've already explained this comment. No need to repeat myself just for you.

 

[IsmokeGT]

Please point out where has someone, or better said, the person you are replying to, said that he was willing to sacrifice the physics of the game.

That is the underlying point of the thread.

Controller users complain about not being equal- So, there are 2 options; take away the wheels, or make the physics easier so the playing field is level.

Option 1 won't happen for 1 reason. It defeats the purpose of GT Academy.
Option 2 won't happen for 1 reason. It defeats the purpose of GT Academy.

If anyone thinks a company should put a race car in the hands of a guy use to holding a controller and controlling the car with buttons, they are delusional.

I would go as far to say PD made this competition blatantly obvious for wheel users. Round 2 is with wheels.

 

[The Outlaw]

That is the underlying point of the thread.

Controller users complain about not being equal- So, there are 2 options; take away the wheels, or make the physics easier so the playing field is level.

Option 1 won't happen for 1 reason. It defeats the purpose of GT Academy.
Option 2 won't happen for 1 reason. It defeats the purpose of GT Academy.

If you think a company should put a race car in the hands of a guy use to holding a controller and controlling the car with buttons, you are delusional.

Agreed.

But you're such an elitist...wa, wa, wa jk

 

[Ghoa$t]

Dualshock 3 wireless controller = $49.99

DFP/DFGT/G25/G27/GT3RS wheels = $90 - $350


Being competitive at GT on an international or even national level in a Time Trial = Lots of work and dedication

Sucking at GT while while using a pad, blaming it on not having a wheel, spending $90 - $350 on a new wheel and still being 8 seconds off the pace of competitive times = Priceless

There are some things money can't buy, for everything else there's MasterCard.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Dualshock 3 wireless controller = $49.99

DFP/DFGT/G25/G27/GT3RS wheels = $90 - $350

Being competitive at GT on an international or even national level in a Time Trial = Lots of work and dedication

Sucking at GT while while using a pad, blaming it on not having a wheel, spending $90 - $350 on a new wheel and still being 8 seconds off the pace of competitive times = Priceless

Possibly true in some cases, but from my point of view

Dualshock 3 wireless controller = free, it comes with the console
Wheel worth having = £250
new TV I also need before GT5 comes out = £600...
some kind of play seat 'cos I'm not bolting the wheel to my coffee table = £a few beers for my fabricator mate

And personally, it's not that I suck, it's just as the game gets more realistic, you need more realistic control, a SA/DS3 simply doesn't quite cut it IMO.

 

[Stevisiov]

Possibly true in some cases, but from my point of view

Dualshock 3 wireless controller = free, it comes with the console
Wheel worth having = £250

You're joking, right?

 

[trevisio]

This is my last post on the thread. So all of the usual suspects can reply using the same non logical arguments as they always will, except this time I'm not going to respond any more ! This is my last word on the subject.

I'm tired of repeatedly communicating the simple, unavoidable FACTS that apply. To those people who will not accept that it is not just their sublime skill or the suitability of a wheel controller in driving/racing games causing them to set beter times than controller users, one last time:

It is because the throttle software has purposely been written to make throttle control very difficult for controller (stick) users in comparison to wheel/pedal users .

I hear all the counter arguments and if there was not another console out there to compare to I might have swallowed the "you need a wheel just because its more natural and the right device to use to drive a car"
However, I own an XBOX360, where in the game RACE PRO I can enjoy completely equal opportunity competitive wheel-to-wheel racing with up to 12 players in WTCC cars, Sportscars, Single seaters and vintage racers, regardless of if I use a wheel/pedal setup or the XBOX controller. There is no advantage or disadvantage whatsoever that I can identify to using either device. That is the way it should be according to my sense of fair play. There should be no performance advantage to be gained from a wheel / spending more money on stuff. There is enough of that in real life racing, believe me I know.

That is the underlying point of the thread.

Controller users complain about not being equal- So, there are 2 options; take away the wheels, or make the physics easier so the playing field is level.

Option 1 won't happen for 1 reason. It defeats the purpose of GT Academy.
Option 2 won't happen for 1 reason. It defeats the purpose of GT Academy.

If anyone thinks a company should put a race car in the hands of a guy use to holding a controller and controlling the car with buttons, they are delusional.

I would go as far to say PD made this competition blatantly obvious for wheel users. Round 2 is with wheels.

There is a 3rd option and that is "do what Simbin did with the XBOX controller" (RACE PRO)

In case anyone was still interested, the majority of my real life racing experience over 15 years has been in karting. I've raced all over the UK (won 4 championships) and Europe including on the Monaco F1 track. I've done 24 hour races at Le Mans and also in Dubai. I've driven single seaters and Caterhams on track too. All using steering wheels 👍

 

[MatskiMonk]

You're joking, right?

Well as I'm totally skint I haven't shopped around yet, but Play.com have the G27 at £299.99

 

[IsmokeGT]

There is a 3rd option and that is "do what Simbin did with the XBOX controller" (RACE PRO)

I've never heard of it. I wonder if there is proof of that controller producing as fast, or faster lap times than a Logitech wheel (like the one I got).

 

[TokyoDrift]

I've improved to 1'37.439 and 1'50.491 (3'27.930) now and yes its an enjoyable challenge to do better each lap.

I'm just not the type to shrug my shoulders about being at an unfair disadvantage due to the throttle "map" as I have no wheel, especially as it must be that way on purpose.

What is annoying me mostly is that it means the playing field is not level in this driving competition, it should not be about if you have the right hardware or not.

Good for you - I'm 2 seconds off that, and have no intention of trying to bridge that gap. I do not, however, blame the fact that I am "disadvantaged" in any way. I put it down to my skill (or lack of), and just move on. Besides, what makes you think that you will be much faster with a wheel? Maybe you are getting as good as you can with pad control, but your weakness is the racing line and technique? You are almost blaming not having a wheel just because you can.

I don't need to repeat what others have said about this being a competition to find the best driver who could potentially race a real car for a team. Of course the demo is going to favour wheel users. I would not have expected it any other way, and am thankful I had the chance to have a go with the pad and really see how bad I am at the genre I like the most!

 

[Tornado]

Controller users complain about not being equal-

You are confusing equal outcomes with equal opportunity. No one in this thread has said that they want to be as fast as wheel users. They have said that they don't want to be unfairly disadvantaged against them, and that they might be faster if they weren't.

 

[Lucas]

That is the underlying point of the thread.

Controller users complain about not being equal- So, there are 2 options; take away the wheels, or make the physics easier so the playing field is level.

And there's a 3rd option: to allow a controller do the same things as the wheel.

If anyone thinks a company should put a race car in the hands of a guy use to holding a controller and controlling the car with buttons, they are delusional.

I'm sorry, but not everyone dreams of that. I, for example, would want to be in the same conditions as the guy using a wheel, nothing more, nothing less.



If there's a reason to buy a wheel, it is because it will enhance the experience. Not because it may make you faster, based on unfair advantage over the controller.