No wheel? Don't bother with the controller on this demo

[trevisio]

If you are hitting 1:38.x with a pad, you are actually doing very well, regardless of where that puts you in the world. I think you need to come back down to planet Earth and simply accept that there are people out there better than you. Yes, the fastest times are with wheels, but there are still people out there doing very fast times with a pad. Fast times that takes skill, and lots and lots of practice. Just buying a wheel does not guarantee you will be faster, and if anything, might make you quite a lot slower until you get used to the wheel.

One thing this demo has done is put people in their place. I can only just crack the low 1:39s, and I'm at my limit with my racing skills and pad control. I'm fine with that. I don't have the time or enthusiasm to bother getting any faster, but will not be disadvantaged at all when it comes to enjoying the full game.

I've improved to 1'37.439 and 1'50.491 (3'27.930) now and yes its an enjoyable challenge to do better each lap.

I'm just not the type to shrug my shoulders about being at an unfair disadvantage due to the throttle "map" as I have no wheel, especially as it must be that way on purpose.

What is annoying me mostly is that it means the playing field is not level in this driving competition, it should not be about if you have the right hardware or not.

 

[The Outlaw]

I'm just not the type to shrug my shoulders about being at an unfair disadvantage due to the throttle "map" as I have no wheel, especially as it must be that way on purpose.

Don't you realize that even if the throttle was perfectly linear on the controller, you still would ultimately be at a large disadvantage to a proficient wheel user, simply because you don't have the ability to be as precise with your input??? May I ask, then what? Would you still be saying: "No wheel? Don't bother with the controller on this demo"?

What is annoying me mostly is that it means the playing field is not level in this driving competition, it should not be about if you have the right hardware or not.

You still don't get the point of this game, nor the the competition GT doesn't need to be dumbed down so that both input devices are capable of achieving the same times.

Sorry if my bluntness offends you...I'm just tired of these lame complaints and excuses. Yes there is an issue with the throttle linearity on the controller which I have absolutely no problem admitting to...but please don't act like you're at a disadvantage simply because of that particular issue, and that if it weren't for that you would no longer be at a disadvantage to a wheel user Because you still would, and you would still be complaining and making excuses in that case to.

 

[a6m5]

Wow. Some people and their high horses.

As a casual player, I also prefer a level playing field. I do think the wheels are cool, but I don't want to be handicapped for not using one either.

 

[The Outlaw]

Some of you people are so clueless...all I can do is laugh really.

Call me an elitist or whatever the hell you want! I rather be that, than delusional of reality

 

[a6m5]

Spoken like a true child. The difference is, I can see where you are coming from. In your case, you just don't care.

 

[The Outlaw]

Spoken like a true child. The difference is, I can see where you are coming from. In your case, you just don't care.

Don't care about what? You people on your "high horses" who think PD should simplify the physics in GT (*cough* the real driving simulator *cough*) or give a controller user an artificial advantage JUST so that they can hold their own in a legitimate competition like GTAcademy? Keep trying 👍

 

[Tornado]

You people on your "high horses" who think PD should simplify the physics in GT

You keep saying this. I haven't seen anyone suggest it in the first place.

or give a controller user an artificial advantage JUST so that they can hold their own in a legitimate competition like GTAcademy?

No one is saying this either.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Wow. Some people and their high horses.

As a casual player, I also prefer a level playing field. I do think the wheels are cool, but I don't want to be handicapped for not using one either.

The only way to make a level playing field is to force everyone to use only the pad or only the wheel but there would be an uproar from the fans if that was done.

There is always going to be a disadvantage using a nub with a limited range of motion rather than a wheel with a great deal of precision. It's like me going to a target shooting competition and I get the Tommy Gun for free but I can pay some money and get a sniper rifle. I suppose if I really try, I can pull it off with the Tommy Gun but if want the best chance to win, I'm getting the rifle.

I will note for the record, I do have a wheel and if I really wanted to win this competition, I would set it up. However, the space where I live at is really cramped so I made the choice to use a pad and be at a disadvantage. That's a choice I made and I'm not going to ask for an advantage because of a disadvantage I can rectify by setting up the wheel.

(but I still want the uneven throttle issue resolved, though)

 

[The Outlaw]

You keep saying this. I haven't seen anyone suggest it in the first place.


No one is saying this either.

You don't see it because you miss the bigger picture. The complainers want a LEVEL playing field between the two device users (controller and wheel). How is PD to go about doing so without doing the two things I mentioned? - Simplifying the physics and/or giving an artificial/unrealistic advantage to the controller user (which they already get a bit of in the way of steering assist).

Even if PD fixed the throttle linearity issue we've seen in the GT5 demo, even the best controller users would still be at a disadvantage as we've seen in Prologue time and time again. So the only way to "level the playing field" would be to do the things I've mentioned 👎

 

[arora]

This thread is still going?

Correct me if I'm wrong, the OP simply was griping that the gas map is wrong for a pad? Big whoop as that subject already has it's own thread here.

Wheels have been available since ps1 days and never a requirement, guess what? They still arn't.

This whole thing is blown way out of preportion IMO.

Get used to the sixaxis limitations, or buy a wheel, or play another game 👍

even the best controller users would still be at a disadvantage as we've seen in Prologue time and time again.

What about in earlier instalments of gt? So far you are talking about 2 'demos' only and not full game releases.

 

[a6m5]

Don't care about what? You people on your "high horses" who think PD should simplify the physics in GT (*cough* the real driving simulator *cough*) or give a controller user an artificial advantage JUST so that they can hold their own in a legitimate competition like GTAcademy? Keep trying 👍

Let me draw you a picture: I(a6m5) can respect your opinion. You(timeattack07gt) don't care about other opinions.

Let me turn your pursuit of realism argument against you: Why are you even on a video game? By your logic, you should be driving a real race car, on a real track. You want realistic, there is realistic. Or is that too real for you? Then who gets to draw the line? You? Would it be alright by you, if we express our opinion on the subject?

The only way to make a level playing field is to force everyone to use only the pad or only the wheel but there would be an uproar from the fans if that was done.

There is always going to be a disadvantage using a nub with a limited range of motion rather than a wheel with a great deal of precision. It's like me going to a target shooting competition and I get the Tommy Gun for free but I can pay some money and get a sniper rifle. I suppose if I really try, I can pull it off with the Tommy Gun but if want the best chance to win, I'm getting the rifle.

I can completely respect that. A very good point. Only problem is, IMO, the controls are getting harder & harder. I started to see fans lose interest after GT4, as many players could barely keep the car on the track. Many gamers I know have moved on to games like Call of Duty, Halo, sports games. I can tell you by my personal observation(take it for what it is), that most casual fans either already have, or are getting close to ditching the series as it is. Ultimately, it is P.D. & SONY's decision to choose the direction of this franchise. I like to see them find some kind of happy medium. Sort of wishful thinking, I know.

You don't see it because you miss the bigger picture. The complainers want a LEVEL playing field between the two device users (controller and wheel). How is PD to go about doing so without doing the two things I mentioned? - Simplifying the physics and/or giving an artificial advantage to the controller user (which they already get a bit of in the way of steering assist).

Even if PD fixed the throttle linearity issue we've seen in the GT5 demo, even the best controller users would still be at a disadvantage as we've seen in Prologue time and time again. So the only way to "level the playing field" would be to do the things I mentioned, which is just taking steps backwards in reality 👎

I think you are oversimplifying this handicap thing. According to you, there is no adjusting. You either do it, or don't do it. Do you really believe that P.D. didn't make any adjustments already when they created the demos? They just designed it, tested it, using only the wheels, and there you go, demo out to the consumers? That would be pretty hard to believe.

 

[Heath_1]

I agree with the guy who started this thread. It really is unfair for us controller users. His lap times are similar to mine. I've got a feeling (and have had for quite a while) that the full version will indeed favor those that use wheels. I hate steering wheels they're far too clumsy, i preffer the controller but it looks like we don't matter anymore.

I will never ever buy a steering wheel. I want to play the game to have fun, for amusement. why should it be made into a big serious deal so much so that you NEED a steering wheel to play it properly. Epic fail.

 

[arora]

I hate steering wheels they're far too clumsy, i preffer the controller but it looks like we don't matter anymore.

It is a racing game though As I've already said, I'd prefere using a pad also.

I will never ever buy a steering wheel. I want to play the game to have fun, for amusement. why should it be made into a big serious deal so much so that you NEED a steering wheel to play it properly. Epic fail.

Good news, there are other racing games on the ps3 where this is not an issue.

 

[Tornado]

You don't see it because you miss the bigger picture. The complainers want a LEVEL playing field between the two device users (controller and wheel). How is PD to go about doing so without doing the two things I mentioned?

They don't.

Even if PD fixed the throttle linearity issue we've seen in the GT5 demo, even the best controller users would still be at a disadvantage as we've seen in Prologue time and time again.

And I'm okay with that. That should be an obvious conclusion to draw based on the very nature of this being a simulation racing game. Its the same thing as mouse-keyboard FPS gamers being inherently better than those with a controller, and light-gun FPS gamers being even better than that. You gripe a bit about having to buy different equipment to play the game properly, but you either suck it up and do so or you suck it up and judge yourself by your own merits rather than those of others. Back in the day I played PC sims against people online with a crappy Dual Shock knockoff PC controller. I was never as fast as the people who owned wheels, but after a while I began noting how good I personally was with what I had. Hopefully PD will include an option to separate those who use wheels online so no one has any right to complain.
But I don't want the controller that I use the majority of the time, even though I do own a wheel, to be unfairly changed for any reason. I don't care about being fastest, because I know I wouldn't be even with a wheel. But what I do care about is having this problem fixed.

It's important to note, however, that the settings in the demo are set to Professional.

I don't think that matters. The controls shouldn't be the way they are in any mode in the final game.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I can completely respect that. A very good point. Only problem is, IMO, the controls are getting harder & harder. I started to see fans lose interest after GT4, as many players could barely keep the car on the track. Many gamers I know have moved on to games like Call of Duty, Halo, sports games. I can tell you by my personal observation(take it for what it is), that most casual fans either already have, or are getting close to ditching the series as it is. Ultimately, it is P.D. & SONY's decision to choose the direction of this franchise. I like to see them find some kind of happy medium. Sort of wishful thinking, I know.

I have no doubt that the GT series is trying to be a simulator rather than an arcade game. Unfortunately, the pad isn't the ideal input device for that purpose so naturally, the wheel is the better choice. In theory, using the SixAxis motion sensor could be a middle ground between a nub and wheel but who knows.

It's important to note, however, that the settings in the demo are set to Professional. For all we know, the Standard settings will be tweaked in GT5 to make it accessible to the casual fan. That, and adding things like NASCAR, online play and damage should be enough to make GT5 a winner.

 

[The Outlaw]

Let me draw you a picture: I(a6m5) can respect your opinion. You(timeattack07gt) don't care about other opinions.

Let me turn your pursuit of realism argument against you: Why are you even on a video game? By your logic, you should be driving a real race car, on a real track. You want realistic, there is realistic. Or is that too real for you? Then who gets to draw the line? You? Would it be alright by you, if we express our opinion on the subject?

That's a simple answer my friend, because real racing is expensive, which I hope you are aware of I'm sure if most of us GT players had the money to race full time, WHENEVER we wanted, and at our convenience we wouldn't be playing GT much at all. But that is far from the case for most us But that's why there's also great competitions like GT Academy for us to compete in 💡

I can completely respect that. A very good point. Only problem is, IMO, the controls are getting harder & harder. I started to see fans lose interest after GT4, as many players could barely keep the car on the track.

Simple. Because PD has made huge advancements in the complexity and REALISM of the physics in GT5/Prologue. The end result making things much harder to control, especially with a hand held device which isn't an ideal tool for driving a real car either. Some people (you included) want the realism of the physics to be sacrificed so the cars are easier to drive, when this completely goes against the motto of the GT series, as the "the real driving simulator". Lets face it already...

Ultimately, it is P.D. & SONY's decision to choose the direction of this franchise. I like to see them find some kind of happy medium. Sort of wishful thinking, I know.

The franchise will only become MORE realistic with time and future GT titles. For the more casual gamer, standard physics will be an option in GT5, as we saw in Prologue. Standard physics of course make the cars much easier to handle and drive, but at the expense of realism. With that said, there is no real need to change the difficulty of the professional physics as you have suggested/implied...but then the fact that you have to drive in Standard physics and not Professional to get your enjoyment, might hurt your ego...which you may complain about as well 💡

I think you are oversimplifying this handicap thing. According to you, there is no adjusting. You either do it, or don't do it. Do you really believe that P.D. didn't make any adjustments already when they created the demos? They just designed it, tested it, using only the wheels, and there you go, demo out to the consumers? That would be pretty hard to believe.

Huh? That makes little sense in regards to what I said. Please explain further.

 

[a6m5]

I have no doubt that the GT series is trying to be a simulator rather than an arcade game.

I've been following the game before the first one came out, I have no doubt that you are correct.

Unfortunately, the pad isn't the ideal input device for that purpose so naturally, the wheel is the better choice. In theory, using the SixAxis motion sensor could be a middle ground between a nub and wheel but who knows.

In this day & age, gamers will experience some shortcomings related to standard controllers. So while I won't argue how much merit there are in wheels, I do think it's important for us to remember that PS3 is a gaming console, which should accommodate its controllers.

It's important to note, however, that the settings in the demo are set to Professional. For all we know, the Standard settings will be tweaked in GT5 to make it accessible to the casual fan. That, and adding things like NASCAR, online play and damage should be enough to make GT5 a sales winner.

Yeah, I don't doubt the sales numbers that GT5 will put up. I just think that: 1) It could be a even bigger hit. 2) It will gradually lose fans at this rate.

By fans, I of course mean the casual fans. And as much as hardcore G.T. fans despise the casual view, that's where P.D./SONY cash in. I think that P.D. is either starting to forget that fact, or fighting it. If it's the latter, I don't blame them, because I do see where they are coming from. I really do.

Good point on the demo. It's a little comforting, I guess.

That's a simple answer my friend, because real racing is expensive, which I hope you are aware of I'm sure if most of us GT players had the money to race full time, WHENEVER we wanted, and at our convenience we wouldn't be playing GT much at all. But that is far from the case for most us But that's why there's also great competitions like GT Academy for us to compete in 💡

So, put up, or shut up doesn't apply to you? It's expensive, it's dangerous, but how is that my problem? That's where "real" is. That's where you wanted to be.

Simple. Because PD has made huge advancements in the complexity and REALISM of the physics in GT5/Prologue. The end result making things much harder to control, especially with a hand held device which isn't an ideal tool for driving a real car either. Some people (you included) want the realism of the physics to be sacrificed so the cars are easier to drive, when this completely goes against the motto of the GT series, as the "the real driving simulator"

"Real Driving Simulator", right. I know it's easy to get caught up in it, sometimes. Let me remind you, it's also a video game. P.D. could not live up to the simulator tag, they know it, most people realize it. Whey they become a real simulator, let me know what machine it's on, because it will not be on a gaming console, not anytime soon.

The franchise will only become MORE realistic with time and future GT titles. For the more casual gamer, standard physics will be an option in GT5, as we saw in Prologue. Standard physics of course make the cars much easier to handle and drive, but at the expense of realism. With that said, there is no real need to change the difficulty of the professional physics as you have suggested/implied...but then the fact that you have to drive in Standard physics and not Professional to get your enjoyment, might hurt your ego...which you may complain about as well 💡

What ego? Not when it comes to Gran Turismo, I suck! You know what they same about people who assume. And where did I single out the professional physics!

Huh? That makes little sense in regards to what I said. Please explain further.

It was in complete regard to your claim. You are against P.D. retarding the game, I'm suggesting that they already have, and it's not about if they do it, or don't do it. It's about by how much.

 

[The Outlaw]

So, put up, or shut up doesn't apply to you? It's expensive, it's dangerous, but how is that my problem? That's where "real" is. That's where you wanted to be.

It's not your problem I'm simply stating a racing simulator is the next best thing to driving/racing a real car on a real race track, especially for what little investment it takes to get involved.

Your bitterness is just getting in the way of the point I'm trying to make. But that's ok

"Real Driving Simulator", right. I know it's easy to get caught up in it, sometimes. Let me remind you, it's also a video game. P.D. could not live up to the simulator tag, they know it, most people realize it. Whey they become a real simulator, let me know what machine it's on, because it will not be on a gaming console, not anytime soon.

Obviously GT in its latest state is already too simulator-ish for you to handle anyway, so I would suggest you watch what you say, because your words just come back and smack you in the face in the end

Might I add that PD is the one who titles the game as the "real driving simulator"...so sorry, your almighty opinion of what their intentions are with their game don't mean much 👎 If you want to argue otherwise...sorry, you don't have much to stand on, until you go have an interview with Kaz himself 💡

What ego? Not when it comes to Gran Turismo, I suck! You know what they same about people who assume. And where did I single out the professional physics!

Your whole argument and the fact that you are even posting in this thread only show that you must be covering the subject of the GT5 demo, which is only available to play with Professional physics.

It was in complete regard to your claim. You are against P.D. retarding the game, I'm suggesting that they already have, and it's not about if they do it, or don't do it. It's about by how much.

In what way have they retarded the game, in Kaz ultimate goal to make the game as realistic as possible? Go tell PD they've retarded the game since GT4 That's all your opinion right there...but PD's intentions to make the game as realistic as possible definitely don't correspond with your sentiments

 

[The Outlaw]

They don't.

Really...

As a casual player, I also prefer a level playing field. I do think the wheels are cool, but I don't want to be handicapped for not using one either.

Edit: Oops...sorry for the double post. I meant to go back to edit my previous post

 

[a6m5]

It's not your problem I'm simply stating a racing simulator is the next best thing to driving/racing a real car on a real race track, especially for what little investment it takes to get involved.

Your bitterness is just getting in the way of the point I'm trying to make. But that's ok

You are assuming again, I'm not displaying my bitterness, I don't got any.

I'm simply displaying your position on this argument: If you don't want to buy the wheel, how is that my problem? Go play something else. Same thing I did here.

Obviously GT in its latest state is already too simulator-ish for you the handle anyway, so I would suggest watch what you say, because your words just come back and smack you in the face in the end

You are talking from the la-la land. Which stores and which section will you find GT5 in? I'm not putting down the realism of the Gran Turismo, but it is still a video game. This is the fact, not an opinion.

Might I add that PD is the one who titles the game as the "real driving simulator"...so sorry, your almighty opinion of what their intentions are with their game don't mean much 👎 If you want to argue otherwise that...you don't have much to stand on, unless you want to go have an interview with Kaz himself 💡

Copout. So you are telling me, that if P.D. call the game a real driving simulator, it qualifies as one? When does it stop becoming a game, and become a simulator? Government certification? Wheel compability?

You're whole argument and the fact that you are even posting in this thread only show that you must be covering the subject of the GT5 demo, which is only open with Professional physics.

Assuming again, are we? Did I express my concern dating back to GT4? Oh yeah, I did!

In what way have they retarded the game, in Kaz ultimate goal to make the game as realistic as possible? Go tell PD they've retarded the game since GT4

Ummmm, this is according to your argument, big buddy. You said that they have to compromise physics to accommodate the controllers. Last I checked, GT games can still be played with standard controllers, which would mean....... 💡

Edit: Oops...sorry for the double post. I meant to go back to edit my previous post

You rookie. I haven't done that.

Today.

 

[The Outlaw]

I could respond, but I'm not going to bother. You're obviously completely lost in the the argument and the points I am making All you keep doing is twisting things up, causing me to re-state my response over and over again lol 👍

 

[arora]

The very term "The real racing simulator" would suggest using a wheel. I'm no fanboy by any stretch but I can say that over the years I've liked PD and there games more then most by a mile so I think they are doing something right 👍

The attitudes expressed here are all bunk though, the wheel vs. controller argument has been going on for years and years and sad to say I'm sure it will continue to do so

There is no conspirecy nor does one means have significant advantage over the other. I'm sure you all have seen Kaz playing 5p with a pad in a vid or 2, duh . I can't understand the PD bashing TBH.

PD is not stupid, nor is it a novice business, they are putting out a game with the best intentions of bringing us closer to real life driving, pad or wheel or whatever. Press the pedals with your hands and turn the wheel with your toes if it suits you, use your nose for steering and your teeth for brake and gas with a pad, no one really cares.

The passion the game is made with is unperalled and quite frankly you all are insulting to the hard work PD puts into it's products. In it to make money? sure. In it to bring us closer to something most of us can't experience in real life? That is cool with me and even though I'm struggling with the wheel and wish I could play as well as I once did with the pad does not take that away.

Get a grip people.

I could respond, but I'm not going to bother

You just did

 

[The Outlaw]

You just did

Well, I meant respond to his comments directly hehe

I'll let him enjoy the victory

 

[arora]

Well, I didn't think about it in the sense of the populous as I'm a hardned jerk but good idea taking it down.

 

[a6m5]

The very term "The real racing simulator" would suggest using a wheel.

Where are we going with this? According to the most, I'm sure it does suggest it. But does having a wheel make it a simulator? Absolutely not.

I'm no fanboy by any stretch but I can say that over the years I've liked PD and there games more then most by a mile so I think they are doing something right 👍

The attitudes expressed here are all bunk though, the wheel vs. controller argument has been going on for years and years and sad to say I'm sure it will continue to do so

There is no conspirecy nor does one means have significant advantage over the other. I'm sure you all have seen Kaz playing 5p with a pad in a vid or 2, duh . I can't understand the PD bashing TBH.

PD is not stupid, nor is it a novice business, they are putting out a game with the best intentions of bringing us closer to real life driving, pad or wheel or whatever. Press the pedals with your hands and turn the wheel with your toes if it suits you, use your nose for steering and your teeth for brake and gas with a pad, no one really cares.

The passion the game is made with is unperalled and quite frankly you all are insulting to the hard work PD puts into it's products. In it to make money? sure. In it to bring us closer to something most of us can't experience in real life? That is cool with me and even though I'm struggling with the wheel and wish I could play as well as I once did with the pad does not take that away.

Get a grip people.

I hope this wasn't directed at me, because I don't believe I disrespect P.D., and I even went out of the way to say that I do understand where P.D. is coming from, regarding the direction of the GT series. I also noted that I've followed this game even before the very first Gran Turismo had come out. I do not take them lightly. On conspiracy, I don't see that either.

 

[Timppaq]

That's too rude for me ta..

 

[The Outlaw]

That's too rude for me ta..

I'll remove it before I get into anymore trouble 👍

Didn't mean to offend anyone personally....was just joking around Sorry

 

[Timppaq]

Better 👍 Thanks.

 

[arora]

Where are we going with this? According to the most, I'm sure it does suggest it. But does having a wheel make it a simulator? Absolutely not.

No arguement there, just saying PD is trying to make a sim so, using a wheel for it makes sense does it not?

I hope this wasn't directed at me, because I don't believe I disrespect P.D., and I even went out of the way to say that I do understand where P.D. is coming from, regarding the direction of the GT series. I also noted that I've followed this game even before the very first Gran Turismo had come out. I do not take them lightly. On conspiracy, I don't see that either.

It just bothers me in general how so many are quick to complain and make a fuss. Nothing personal 👍 And no it's not a conspiracy, it's just a pain in the arse but then again, so is life

 

[a6m5]

No arguement there, just saying PD is trying to make a sim so, using a wheel for it makes sense does it not?



It just bothers me in general how so many are quick to complain and make a fuss. Nothing personal 👍 And no it's not a conspiracy, it's just a pain in the arse but then again, so is life

Fair enough. On the complaint though, people complain, give feedbacks, because they care. For me, it annoys me how quick, not directed at you, but how some of you jump on anybody who criticize. Especially here of all places. gtplanet, where Gran Turismo fans come together to congregate. We can't agree on everything, all the time, and there is nothing wrong with it. No need to degrade others for not agreeing with you.