No wheel? Don't bother with the controller on this demo

[GTP_rpm]

This is my last post on the thread. So all of the usual suspects can reply using the same non logical arguments as they always will, except this time I'm not going to respond any more ! This is my last word on the subject.

I'm tired of repeatedly communicating the simple, unavoidable FACTS that apply. To those people who will not accept that it is not just their sublime skill or the suitability of a wheel controller in driving/racing games causing them to set beter times than controller users, one last time:

It is because the throttle software has purposely been written to make throttle control very difficult for controller (stick) users in comparison to wheel/pedal users .

I hear all the counter arguments and if there was not another console out there to compare to I might have swallowed the "you need a wheel just because its more natural and the right device to use to drive a car"
However, I own an XBOX360, where in the game RACE PRO I can enjoy completely equal opportunity competitive wheel-to-wheel racing with up to 12 players in WTCC cars, Sportscars, Single seaters and vintage racers, regardless of if I use a wheel/pedal setup or the XBOX controller. There is no advantage or disadvantage whatsoever that I can identify to using either device. That is the way it should be according to my sense of fair play. There should be no performance advantage to be gained from a wheel / spending more money on stuff. There is enough of that in real life racing, believe me I know.



There is a 3rd option and that is "do what Simbin did with the XBOX controller" (RACE PRO)

In case anyone was still interested, the majority of my real life racing experience over 15 years has been in karting. I've raced all over the UK (won 4 championships) and Europe including on the Monaco F1 track. I've done 24 hour races at Le Mans and also in Dubai. I've driven single seaters and Caterhams on track too. All using steering wheels 👍

Some people on the rFactor league I race in, used to complain that I was faster than them with the sixaxis and they all had wheels. The organiser of the league even thought about banning the controllers, because not feeling the forcefeedback and being able to go lock-to-lock so quickly whilst being able to program all your own rates for each buttons was considered a huge advantage.

Until I went faster still with the wheel.

The gap is not as wide in rFactor between the sixaxis and the wheels, as it is in GT I will give you that. But you need to understand, the average user on GT isn't going to be able to control a car for their own life if their steering actually did turn lock to lock, as quickly as the anologue steering did...let alone brakes or throttle!

If you've been racing karts for the past 15years and won championships, may I ask your name? Chances are I've heard of you, as I myself did some karting and my brother won several British Championships back in the days before multiple organisations ruined British Karting...

I was hard on you early on and I apologise. But a wheel, will always and SHOULD in my opinion be faster than a sixaxis. But GT does hinder a good games player, but this is because it's mass copies are not sold to many elite sim-racers...Making the settings adjustable is a slippery slope towards becomming a simulator where people can adjust and modify their own files and when you do plug your G25 in you have to spend 19 hours perfecting it.

GT is a game for most, a hobby for some. Those who's hobby it is, should invest in a wheel and speed is for the last reason I got mine!

 

[IsmokeGT]

And there's a 3rd option: to allow a controller do the same things as the wheel.

If you think a button and a 12 inch wheel, or life size pedals, will do the same thing, you might want to re-think that. No matter the circumstances, they are vastly different.

If there's a reason to buy a wheel, it is because it will enhance the experience. Not because it may make you faster, based on unfair advantage over the controller.

So when your experience is enhanced you have more fun, and you do it more... then you get better. That is the advantage in my eyes. Me and TA can sit at out wheels for hours on end happily. Apparently you guys sit around dwelling on how much of a disadvantage you are at.

Anything you guys complain about can be overcome. We went to the moon. (you can set a fast lap with a controller!)

either way- "Buy a wheel"

 

[Lucas]

If you think a button and a 12 inch wheel, or life size pedals, will do the same thing, you might want to re-think that. No matter the circumstances, they arent vastly different.

All I needed to know. Players are in different conditions. You said it yourself. That alone says that someone has an advantage over the other one.

So when your experience is enhanced you have more fun, and you do it more... then you get better.

Nope, it doesn't work like that. My experience would be enhanced driving a real car. Does it mean I will have fun? Not at all. And I'm having fun using my DS2 in GT4, by the way.

That is the advantage in my eyes. Me and TA can sit at out wheels for hours on end happily. Apparently you guys sit around dwelling on how much of a disadvantage you are at.

There's a disadvantage. It doesn't matter if it's much or not.

Anything you guys complain about can be overcome. We went to the moon.

What... the hell does that have to do with anything?

EDIT: Who says we can't set fast laps with a controller? We are saying that those who have a wheel can set faster laps.

Buy a wheel

And it comes down to the fact I'm right.

 

[The Outlaw]

I've never heard of it. I wonder if there is proof of that controller producing as fast, or faster lap times than a Logitech wheel (like the one I got).

I was wondering the same thing. I would like to see the BEST lap time comparisons between the different devices (controller vs wheel) in Race Pro. Even then, comparing the GT5 demo to Race Pro is like comparing apples to oranges for a number of reasons.

1. FAR fewer highly skilled players on Race Pro using either device. Making the top times between different device users (wheel and controller) less significant, because the ceiling of potential lap times is relatively unknown. In GT, there are several aliens (Takeuchi, Dan, Timppaq) who set the benchmark for what is humanly possible. Out of several million GT players, these are some of the fastest GT players in the world. I doubt Race Pro has several million players to gather such a talented pool of elite drivers.

2. There are fewer wheel users in Race Pro...and the ones who do, most likely have the crap MS wheel, as I suspect only a hand full of players use a quality FFB wheel like the Fanatec, which is comparable to the standard for the GT series (Logitech DFGT, G27)

3. How much artificial assistance/unfair handicap is given to the controller user, to help make things easier to control? Let me reiterate that these "drive for you assist" are a complete joke in such a competition like the GT5 demo/GTAcademy. I could just see a controller user winning because the game limits how much steering input he puts in using the joystick, in order to limit understeer/oversteer, among whatever other assist they can think of to level the playing field and make the game drive the car for them.

You are confusing equal outcomes with equal opportunity. No one in this thread has said that they want to be as fast as wheel users. They have said that they don't want to be unfairly disadvantaged against them.

So my question is - What would you like PD to do in order to level the playing field, and rid of the unfair advantage wheel users have? Because I'll surely guarantee you that the controller users would still be at a disadvantage even if the throttle issue was resolved with the controller. So then what!? It all revolves back to one/two thing...

Some people on the rFactor league I race in, used to complain that I was faster than them with the sixaxis and they all had wheels. The organiser of the league even thought about banning the controllers, because not feeling the forcefeedback and being able to go lock-to-lock so quickly whilst being able to program all your own rates for each buttons was considered a huge advantage.

Until I went faster still with the wheel.

The gap is not as wide in rFactor between the sixaxis and the wheels, as it is in GT I will give you that. But you need to understand, the average user on GT isn't going to be able to control a car for their own life if their steering actually did turn lock to lock, as quickly as the anologue steering did...let alone brakes or throttle!

Good points and I agree. Can we also agree that ultimately, and unassisted, a top wheel user in a game like Rfactor and Iracing (the most realistic racing sim games) still would be quicker than a top controller user at least on any type of somewhat difficult track/car combination?

 

[IsmokeGT]

All I needed to know. Players are in different conditions. You said it yourself. That alone says that someone has an advantage over the other one.

Type-o dude.

There's a disadvantage. It doesn't matter if it's much or not.

I think you missed my point. The fact that a wheel enhanes the experience is an advantage.

What... the hell does that have to do with anything?

You are whining about a very minor thing. You are the smartest animal around, act like it.

 

[Lucas]

I think you missed my point. The fact that a wheel enhanes the experience is an advantage.

The only way I could have not missed it is by replying "yes" like an idiot. If you want me not to miss it, then explain yourself better.

You are whining about a very minor thing. You are the smartest animal around, act like it.

You don't realize it's an important thing. You are (one of) the smartest animals around, act like one.

 

[Tornado]

So my question is - What would you like PD to do in order to level the playing field, and rid of the unfair advantage wheel users have? Because I'll surely guarantee you that the controller users would still be at a disadvantage even if the throttle issue was resolved. So then what!? It all revolves back to one/two thing...

I want the throttle fixed. I really don't care whether I'm as fast as a wheel user, and it isn't a valid complaint to make simply if one isn't.
Wheel versus controller is inherently disadvantaged against the controller. I understand that, and I don't want PD screwing around with wheel users to make that go away because that is how it logically should be. The only crossroads I would like PD to make in that respect is some kind of mode in online play that allows you to race against only wheel users or only controller users. What I don't want, however, is wheel versus controller intentionally disadvantaged against the controller, which is what we have now.

 

[GTP_rpm]

@ Brock, as regards your question to me, there are many variables. This is why rFactor and such simulators are unreliable sources of what's faster, wheel / controller because every driver can adjust and fine tune their inputs to their own requirements.

Ant is every bit as quick with the sixaxis, as he is when he's used a G25. Though, he adds he can be more consistent with a wheel...

...I myself am faster. He's just a pad alien...

Ant also always critisises GT for it's awful implementation of the sixaxis inputs regarding steering. Throttle/brake has never been an issue though...that's more manageable as it's not speed related but the steering is his biggest complaint.

 

[The Outlaw]

I want the throttle fixed. I really don't care whether I'm as fast as a wheel user, and it isn't a valid complaint to make simply if one isn't.
Wheel versus controller is inherently disadvantaged against the controller. I understand that, and I don't want PD screwing around with wheel users to make that go away because that is how it logically should be. The only crossroads I would like PD to make in that respect is some kind of mode in online play that allows you to race against only wheel users or only controller users. What I don't want, however, is wheel versus controller intentionally disadvantaged against the controller, which is what we have now.

Fair enough 👍

The issue that I have is that there are an awful lot of controller users in this thread who have complained and made excuses as to why they shouldn't be at a disadvantage (even if the throttle issue was fixed) to wheel users, simply because they don't use a steering wheel for whatever reason (money, convenience, being a casual gamer, etc.) They basically feel that PD should change their ways, go against logic and their intentions for the game, in order to make it so a controller player is capable of going just as quickly as a wheel player.

 

[kayman]

are we even sure its a software issue anyway?

Do we know sony have used top quality potentiometers in there controllers or have they used cheap crap?

I seem to have the same problem with the linearity of my G25 pedals. I can hold around 90% throttle and then the last 10% or so goes straight to full throttle. Which to me seems like a hardware issue anyway.

Not that its really hindered my times anyway.

 

[Tornado]

are we even sure its a software issue anyway

Yes.

 

[kayman]

oh well.

I hope it stays exactly as it is then!

 

[Dravonic]

I've raced with a controller in GT since the first one. Got a wheel for about a month or so. If you think wheel users are in advantage you're right but if you think using a wheel magically makes you faster you're terribly wrong. The wheel gives you a lot of fine control and that's where it's advantage is, but roughly the car is much easier to control with the controller. Basically if you know how to drive (and I really mean know how to) you'll be faster with a wheel. If you're still learning, the controller will let you get away with things the wheel will punish you to no end.

I've been racing with a wheel for about a month and I'm still faster with the controller. I'm somewhat faster than you with the controller, so trust me when I say that you are in no disadvantage using a controller. In fact you're in advantage. Get a wheel and you'll see what I mean. Anyway, by the time you know enough to be faster with a wheel you'll have bought one for quite some time.

 

[Alan_G]

Any wheel users who haven't properly tried (or at all) the pad with GT5P or the demo should just back out of the argument and stop being an ass about it.

This is not about "Pad is slower than wheel" or "wheel is faster then pad". The point is the throttle distribution is uneven for pad users. The brakes distribution is perfectly even. "Why" is the question pad users are asking.

It doesn't matter how much faster (or slower) a pad user may be with a wheel, or how much more difficult it may be with a wheel. The point is there is no good reason (or fair reason) for the throttle distribution to be like this. This is not about complaining that "I'm a pad user and I'm not no.1 in the world because of this". Personally, I will be satisfied once I can lap as quickly as I know I can using a pad in this game - it is irrelevant what my times are relative to wheel users for me. What is stopping me doing this is not a hardware (pad) issue - it's a software issue, which is not experienced by wheel users.

It doesn't matter if "real cars have steering wheels", or "at Silverstone you'll have to use a real steering wheel". People are missing the point. Why not make it a wheel-only competition? Because it's marketing - business - money. If they did that, then the vast, vast majority of GT users (pad users) won't get the exposure. Is there something wrong with that? No. They have to make money. It's expensive business. The PS3 is an almighty beast to develop software for.

What they should have done is:

- Make the pad throttle distribution linear
- Allow all users (pad or wheel) to post times
- Limit the finishing top 20 to wheel users only

(I am in the top 20 in my country. I use a pad. Looks like I'll be staying there. I don't have a driving license, so looks like I won't be taking any further part! And I'm happy enough with that - I just like to compete with laptimes online.)

The GT series is obviously based on the real driving experience. In fact I always say, it's not a racing game - it's a driving game! I have no doubt that a wheel, for people who know how to drive a fast lap, is the best option for GT. The physics model for GT is built in a way that naturally results in being a bit more difficult for pad users, in particular with steering. GT has what I call "absolute steering" (maybe there's a proper name for it) where the steering output always matches the input up to the point of heavy understeer. This means you have to accurately input the right amount of steering input using a stick (or whatever others use), and this is naturally more difficult than with a wheel, as with a pad you only have a very small amount of movement.

But if you've been driving cars round tracks in sims with silly little analogue sticks like I have for 14 years, you realise that it is possible to be competitive, and you get used to it. And that is why it is so frustrating to see some kind of handicap on the throttle for pad users in this game. (some people were saying GT5P was okay - I've covered this already in another thread. It is the exact same throttle distribution - same number of increments at the same positions)

 

[krisa9977]

I just compared the wheel and the pad throttle distribution. The pad throttle distribution is not linear, but TC works with the pad that makes it easier to control the throttle. I don't know why PD did that, but I'm sure there was a reason for that and that reason was not to make the game more difficult for pad users.

I think that GT5 is the driving simulator and if you are concerned about your lap time and if you want to improve your driving skills, you must buy a wheel!

 

[The Outlaw]

Alan: I agree with you for the most part. To set the record straight, very few of us (at least myself included) argue against the fact that the throttle linearity issue on the controller is an issue and should be fixed 👍 I would be a selfish a-hole to argue otherwise.

The thing you miss though is that I (and a few other wheels users) have only been arguing in this thread because, some of the controller players (OP in particular) think that the controller throttle issue is the only thing holding them back from potentially being equally competitive, and on equal footing with the BEST wheel users in the world. Basically they feel that neither input device would have an inherent advantage if the throttle issue was fixed with the controller...which is realistically not the case. You simply cannot (without some type of artificial ASSISTANCE) attain the precision, accuracy, and FFB needed to achieve a 3'22.xxx overall time (as we've seen a wheel user do) with a controller, even if the throttle linearity issue was fixed. So basically it would still come back to the "no wheel, don't bother with the controller on this demo" claim the OP has made, due to being at a disadvantage due to the input device.

There were also a few other controllers users who felt that they should not be at a disadvantage to wheel users simply for other reasons (money, convenience, it's no longer fun, etc, etc.) which in the end, greatly sacrifice the intentions of PD in making the game as realistic as possible - in which a wheel/pedal set is a much more realistic and accurate tool to achieve the best possible lap times.

I feel like a broken record at this point, but it seems I must continually re-iterate my stand on things and the view of a few others in order to get my point across as clearly as possible, and that I'm not at all arguing against the claims that there is some type of throttle linearity issue with the controller and that it should be fixed.

The physics model for GT is built in a way that naturally results in being a bit more difficult for pad users, in particular with steering. GT has what I call "absolute steering" (maybe there's a proper name for it) where the steering output always matches the input up to the point of heavy understeer. This means you have to accurately input the right amount of steering input using a stick (or whatever others use), and this is naturally more difficult than with a wheel, as with a pad you only have a very small amount of movement.

This paragraph doesn't really add up to me. The "absolute steering" as you call it is an ASSIST that plays to controller players FAVOR. Without this, controller players would have a hell of a time riding the VERY delicate threshold of the front tires grip throughout the entirety of a corner, without running into excessive understeer than can be very costly to lap times. It is very easy even with a wheel (a much more accurate steering device that doesn't have this "absolute steering") to lose a few tenths a laps with just an excessive bit of tire squeal, due to a bit too much steering angle/ input at just the wrong time. We're talking just a couple of degrees at most on a 12" wheel, where turning in just a few hundredths/thousandths of a second too late can cause you to miss an apex by a couple of inches while scrubbing a crap load of speed. Now I'm sure you can imagine how much more difficult it would be to achieve this ultra precise steering input and timing unassistedly on a joystick vs. a 12" wheel with FFB. You seem to realize this, but state the "absolute steering" (an assist given only to controller players to limit unnecessary understeer/steering input) makes things more difficult for the controller players for some reason

 

[Dravonic]

Alan: I agree with you for the most part. To set the record straight, very few of us (at least myself included) argue against the fact that the throttle linearity issue on the controller is an issue and should be fixed 👍 I would be a selfish a-hole to argue otherwise.

The thing you miss though is that I (and a few other wheels users) have only been arguing in this thread because, some of the controller players (OP included) think that the controller throttle issue is the only thing holding them back from potentially being equally competitive, and on equal footing with the BEST wheel users in the world. Basically they feel that neither input device would have an inherent advantage if the throttle issue was fixed with the controller...which is realistically not the case. You simply cannot (without some type of artificial ASSISTANCE) attain the precision and accuracy needed to achieve a 3'22.xxx overall time (as we've seen a wheel user do) with a controller, even if the throttle linearity issue was fixed. So basically it would still come back to the "no wheel, don't bother with the demo" excuse the OP has made, due to being at a disadvantage due to the input device.

There were also a few other controllers users who felt that they should not be at a disadvantage to wheel users simply for other reasons (money, convenience, it's no longer fun, etc, etc.) which in the end, greatly sacrifice the intentions of PD in making the game as realistic as possible - in which a wheel/pedal set is a much more realistic and accurate tool to achieve the best possible lap times.

My points exactly. I'm in no way implying that the uneven throttle distribution is not a problem or that it shouldn't be fixed.

What I am saying is that a wheel is faster, although only if you know how to use it, and that this is to be expected. The OP is clearly looking for an excuse to his lack of skill. I'm trying to give him a reality check. People around here have proven that it is possible to be competitive with the controller.

 

[profi]

Any wheel users who haven't properly tried (or at all) the pad with GT5P or the demo should just back out of the argument and stop being an ass about it.

This is not about "Pad is slower than wheel" or "wheel is faster then pad". The point is the throttle distribution is uneven for pad users. The brakes distribution is perfectly even. "Why" is the question pad users are asking.

It doesn't matter how much faster (or slower) a pad user may be with a wheel, or how much more difficult it may be with a wheel. The point is there is no good reason (or fair reason) for the throttle distribution to be like this. This is not about complaining that "I'm a pad user and I'm not no.1 in the world because of this". Personally, I will be satisfied once I can lap as quickly as I know I can using a pad in this game - it is irrelevant what my times are relative to wheel users for me. What is stopping me doing this is not a hardware (pad) issue - it's a software issue, which is not experienced by wheel users.

It doesn't matter if "real cars have steering wheels", or "at Silverstone you'll have to use a real steering wheel". People are missing the point. Why not make it a wheel-only competition? Because it's marketing - business - money. If they did that, then the vast, vast majority of GT users (pad users) won't get the exposure. Is there something wrong with that? No. They have to make money. It's expensive business. The PS3 is an almighty beast to develop software for.

What they should have done is:

- Make the pad throttle distribution linear
- Allow all users (pad or wheel) to post times
- Limit the finishing top 20 to wheel users only

(I am in the top 20 in my country. I use a pad. Looks like I'll be staying there. I don't have a driving license, so looks like I won't be taking any further part! And I'm happy enough with that - I just like to compete with laptimes online.)

The GT series is obviously based on the real driving experience. In fact I always say, it's not a racing game - it's a driving game! I have no doubt that a wheel, for people who know how to drive a fast lap, is the best option for GT. The physics model for GT is built in a way that naturally results in being a bit more difficult for pad users, in particular with steering. GT has what I call "absolute steering" (maybe there's a proper name for it) where the steering output always matches the input up to the point of heavy understeer. This means you have to accurately input the right amount of steering input using a stick (or whatever others use), and this is naturally more difficult than with a wheel, as with a pad you only have a very small amount of movement.

But if you've been driving cars round tracks in sims with silly little analogue sticks like I have for 14 years, you realise that it is possible to be competitive, and you get used to it. And that is why it is so frustrating to see some kind of handicap on the throttle for pad users in this game. (some people were saying GT5P was okay - I've covered this already in another thread. It is the exact same throttle distribution - same number of increments at the same positions)

+1 I completely agree !👍

 

[Hypo_Pylon]

Both GT5P and the demo are both completely playable with the controller, in either physics mode. Even the dexterity requirements are pretty low unless you're using N class tyres, which are intentionally difficult.

But I wouldn't expect to be competitive with a pad against someone with a wheel. Not because it's a corporate conspiracy or anything, but a wheel is a better tool for the job. It's designed specifically for one type of game, and it's very good at it. A controller is designed to be OK for a wide range of different game types.

I can sympathise with people objecting to them artificially fiddling with the accelerator linearity, but one has to assume that they did it because they thought it made it easier for people to drive. PD has been shown to be a pretty bright company, and I can't imagine they intentionally made their control scheme worse.

At the end of the day, a wheel is designed purposefully to be better than the controller, or there would be no point buying it. It doesn't need PD gimping the controller to be better.

Exactly. You have mm of travel in the buttons/analogue controls vs. inches in a steering wheel/pedal combo.

So if you want to be highly competitive buy a wheel, but some people just want to have fun with the demo, and at the moment it seems that is not possible for some people as the pads throttle sensitivity setup for the controller is non-linear. Which is a valid argument.

But please drop all the corporate conspiracy nonsense.

 

[HEMIata]

Currently the best time listed with a pad is GNo-13 (Japan) with a 3:23.694 That is 13th in Japan and 48th Globally 👍

 

[SubaruWrXSt!]

In my insignificant opinion, I just think that there's people that are better with the wheel, and others that are better with the controller, and others that are no good at the game but enjoy it, like myself. =) stop the arguing!

 

[fbmautopilot]

I noticed that in the GT:HD demo the throttle and braking is completly linear and very easy to modulate compared to GTP and the new demo. I wonder why they even bothered with it for GT:HD?

 

[F1 fan]

It is because the throttle software has purposely been written to make throttle control very difficult for controller (stick) users in comparison to wheel/pedal users .

Again, you make assumptions. I had no problems at all using the controller. Maybe it's just you. A lot of people complain about the standard PS pad. I have no complaints. I've always liked it. Have you considered that you might just not like the pad?

When I used a pad, I used R2/L2 for throttle and brake and I had no problems.

As for your theory that there should be no advantage over pad users for wheel users... How's that going to work? Is your pad going to have 900 degree steering? If your racing experience is as good as you say, then you should understand why there will always be an advantage with a wheel. So you have two options.

1. You buy a wheel.
2. You stop complaining.

Well as I'm totally skint I haven't shopped around yet, but Play.com have the G27 at £299.99

I saw a DFGT online for about £55. Didn't know the site, so I bought one from game for £79.99.

It's a very good wheel. I haven't ever used a G25 or G27, but I highly reccomend the DFGT.

And there's a 3rd option: to allow a controller do the same things as the wheel.

That is impossible. With the wheel you have 900 degree steering. It is purpose designed to give you more control. Imagine how hard it would be to drive a real car with a dualshock.

I think what you seem to want is to take away some of the functionality of the wheel to level the playing field. If PD and other devs were going to do that, then what would be the point of having a wheel?

I bought a wheel because I'm skint and can't afford to go racing. Pro physics and a steering wheel are the next best thing.

If there's a reason to buy a wheel, it is because it will enhance the experience. Not because it may make you faster, based on unfair advantage over the controller.

It will make you more accurate as it makes it easier to steer smoothly, as opposed to short stabs in the direction with a pad.

Why do some people find this concept so hard to understand?

There's a disadvantage. It doesn't matter if it's much or not.

So please tell us what you're solution would be? To make the game easier for controller users or to purposefully make it harder for wheel users?

The fact of the matter is, wheel users may have an advantage as the wheel allows you to be more precise therefore it is easier to meet the apex perfectly. This is the way it will always be. So what's the point in moaning? Do you want PD to give you a free wheel to make it easier for you?

I recently bought a steering wheel because I wanted one. But I can't use it for the time trial demo as I don't have the internet at home and have to take my ps3 to a friend's house. You don't hear me moaning. The game is perfectly playable without a wheel, so you can either enjoy it with a pad, or buy a wheel.

And as stated by others several times already, there are some very fast times up there for controller users, so it can be done.

Who says we can't set fast laps with a controller? We are saying that those who have a wheel can set faster laps.

And it's easier to see why. Use your head.

 

[trevisio]

Again, you make assumptions. I had no problems at all using the controller. Maybe it's just you. A lot of people complain about the standard PS pad. I have no complaints. I've always liked it. Have you considered that you might just not like the pad?

When I used a pad, I used R2/L2 for throttle and brake and I had no problems.

As for your theory that there should be no advantage over pad users for wheel users... How's that going to work? Is your pad going to have 900 degree steering? If your racing experience is as good as you say, then you should understand why there will always be an advantage with a wheel. So you have two options.

1. You buy a wheel.
2. You stop complaining.



I saw a DFGT online for about £55. Didn't know the site, so I bought one from game for £79.99.

It's a very good wheel. I haven't ever used a G25 or G27, but I highly reccomend the DFGT.



That is impossible. With the wheel you have 900 degree steering. It is purpose designed to give you more control. Imagine how hard it would be to drive a real car with a dualshock.

I think what you seem to want is to take away some of the functionality of the wheel to level the playing field. If PD and other devs were going to do that, then what would be the point of having a wheel?

I bought a wheel because I'm skint and can't afford to go racing. Pro physics and a steering wheel are the next best thing.



It will make you more accurate as it makes it easier to steer smoothly, as opposed to short stabs in the direction with a pad.

Why do some people find this concept so hard to understand?



So please tell us what you're solution would be? To make the game easier for controller users or to purposefully make it harder for wheel users?

The fact of the matter is, wheel users may have an advantage as the wheel allows you to be more precise therefore it is easier to meet the apex perfectly. This is the way it will always be. So what's the point in moaning? Do you want PD to give you a free wheel to make it easier for you?

I recently bought a steering wheel because I wanted one. But I can't use it for the time trial demo as I don't have the internet at home and have to take my ps3 to a friend's house. You don't hear me moaning. The game is perfectly playable without a wheel, so you can either enjoy it with a pad, or buy a wheel.

And as stated by others several times already, there are some very fast times up there for controller users, so it can be done.



And it's easier to see why. Use your head.

Your attitude stinks, its obvious that nobody with a controller has a chance of getting a top 20 UK time for factual reasons stated and proved about 1 million times already.

Bye bye PS3, my XBOX is fixed now and the controller is just as good as the wheel on that

 

[Raitziger]

Bye bye PS3, my XBOX is fixed now and the controller is just as good as the wheel on that

Forza uses steering buffer so you are not in real control even with wheel.

 

[The Outlaw]

Your attitude stinks, its obvious that nobody with a controller has a chance of getting a top 20 UK time for factual reasons stated and proved about 1 million times already.

Yet there is a Japanese pad user that would be in fifth place if he lived in the UK atm, showing that it is quite possible to be competitive with a pad, IF you have enough skills with that particular device.

So in the end, you're the one with the stinky attitude 👎

Bye bye PS3, my XBOX is fixed now and the controller is just as good as the wheel on that Face the facts...YOU are just not good enough to make the top 20 with a pad...it's as simple as that.

Good thing your XBOX is fixed so we no longer have to listen to you complain and make excuses. It's quite simple, you can't admit that you're just not good enough to be competitive with a pad. Instead, you're so full of yourself and what you think you're capable of, you rather make untrue excuses and complain all day long while spamming up the forum.

Have fun with Forza's arcade physics and "steer for you" assist.

 

[arora]

Yet there is a Japanese pad user that would be in fifth place if he lived in the UK atm, showing that it is quite possible to be competitive with a pad

Thats true 👍 And a memeber here R1600 seems to do pretty well with it, I think he was top 20 for a while.

Maybe the throttle map is different in the jpn demo but I seriously doubt it.

 

[RyanWreck]

Why does everyone always blame it on either (a) the controller (which I, and many others including top positions, use), or (b) the physics of the game? Just admit that you aren't good enough yet, is that so hard? Instead of doing this you should find the top controller users, load their replays and ghosts and then follow/watch them to see what they are doing different than you and where they are gaining speed, if they are taking the apex, braking, etc, etc, ad naseum. I didn't think I could get better than 1'40'5xx even though I know others with a controller are doing so and then I loaded someones ghost and now I am 1'40'1xx just on the edge.

 

[GAHmusic]

When I first started using GTP5 I was having trouble with the C events, I swore and cursed the controller but eventually I got through it. Same for B then C then I came to the S class specifically race 7 and 10. This caused me to curse even more particularly 10 as I just could not get through it with the controller, that was until I started reading the car setups on this forum, it took me nearly 2 weeks of evenings to complete but in the end I did it. I think it's fair to say it is about practice and persistence and no I don't want it to be a game where I can just bash about like need for speed or just find the line that allows me to run the whole race at full throttle. Now I have beaten all the levels I love it so much I can't wait for 5 and am buying a wheel as a reward to myself. I've tried the demo and I think I am around 55000 at the moment, it's hard and it's frustrating but I know I can improve the truth is I'm just not good enough yet. I would however love to be able to read the top drivers telemetry readouts now that would be cool.

 

[stevetam]

although I think I can improve time with a steering wheel I can't be sure. But really the throttle brake control is minor. Its all about consistency and taking a good line. You don't have that, there is no chance for top 20. PERIOD, regardless of having a steering wheel or not, when you don't know what you are doing, its over.

Seriously with the Xbox and Forza. Sure forza 3 is pretty real, and you can say the 360 triggers are better, but even then just because it has slightly better inputs doesn't mean you'll come remotely close to top times in forza either. Plus, how do yo uknow the freaking wheel is the same as the controller? Quit whining and go back to some standard physics