Non-linear throttle

[praiano63]

I did some laps this mornings with GR2 on Kyoto and i had some problems out slow corners mainly , very easy to loose the rear due to wheel spin.
I have a piece of foam under my chair that i use sometime to make my driving position more comfortable. I have put a piece of this foam into a large sox under my right foot and it was fantastic, really easy to control the throttle this way. My time was really improved instantanely.

 

[Macboyilija]

Wow I was not aware of this issue until now, but damn this explains a lot.

I think this counts for many people not knowing why “something” feels “different”.

It should have been adressed as one of the biggest problems in the game. Hopefully this thread will go more viral and maybe the OP or mods can add a poll ?

 

[DesertPenguin]

Or at least make an article on the front page with an attempt to reach PD for interview

 

[Traks1]

As I expected, the new group C cars are virtually uncontrollable in the lower gears and quite horrible to drive because of it. Most unpleasant. Had to go drive AC version of C9 just to cheer myself up and experience awesome as opposed to frustrating toy.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

As I expected, the new group C cars are virtually uncontrollable in the lower gears and quite horrible to drive because of it. Most unpleasant. Had to go drive AC version of C9 just to cheer myself up and experience awesome as opposed to frustrating toy.

I shouldn't be surprised the latest patch didn't address this issue but c'mon now. You mean to tell me that nobody at PD realized that "Hey, these new Group C cars are nightmares when adding throttle" and realized that mapping the gas so that it's hard not to spike the power is a really bad idea?

Really? Really?

 

[Guffaluff]

I saw this issue present in a live stream yesterday. The guy was trying out his wheel setup for the first time in GTS. But when he started playing, he found that the throttle would suddenly increase to max power when he was only applying 50%. He attempted to fix the problem but he ultimately ended the stream prematurely.

It seemed practically impossible to drive. Participated in an online on-make race and kept almost spinning out in the corners because of the weird throttle issue.
Edit:
Is this an issue with the controller as well, or just wheel setups?

Was it by any chance Jimmy Broadbent? Watched that stream as well and it made me sad. Really like that guy and was hoping for some GTS content from him, but I don't see that happening now

Hope it gets fixed sometime soon, but not sure it'll ever happen.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Was it by any chance Jimmy Broadbent? Watched that stream as well and it made me sad. Really like that guy and was hoping for some GTS content from him, but I don't see that happening now

Hope it gets fixed sometime soon, but not sure it'll ever happen.

I watched his stream where he was trying to beat Hamilton's Nurb GP lap. He didn't seem to have too hard of a time with the throttle and managed to beat the time. Is there a different video where he has a more difficult time managing the throttle?

 

[Guffaluff]

I watched his stream where he was trying to beat Hamilton's Nurb GP lap. He didn't seem to have too hard of a time with the throttle and managed to beat the time. Is there a different video where he has a more difficult time managing the throttle?

Did see this one as well, weird how he had no issues there. The other video isn't up, he went off air but never came back on.

 

[John G]

I shouldn't be surprised the latest patch didn't address this issue but c'mon now. You mean to tell me that nobody at PD realized that "Hey, these new Group C cars are nightmares when adding throttle" and realized that mapping the gas so that it's hard not to spike the power is a really bad idea?

Really? Really?

Yeah I don't know how these things get through. I mean does anyone at PD actually play the game? How can they think some of these issues are ok?

The worst thing is that, its not even a bug, its intentional. Same as constantly flashing low fuel warning on the screen. These are something that someone decided was a good idea

 

[Griffith500]

It's sort of similar to the way gear changes are handled. The Fiat 500 is painful.

 

[UnkaD]

It makes it tough when you're trying to correct for errors or are under massive pressure. Or both. I had someone in a la Sarthe race the other night that was hounding me bad. I braked too deep a few corners and he was somehow still on my rear bumper off the racing line instead of just passing on the inside. I couldn't tell where he was going to end up and I was having a real handful trying to manage my car with these off-line excursions.

Pretty much the amount of mental processing that this throttle takes doesn't leave too much left over for actual racecraft in some cases.

 

[Blair mann]

I am completely sick of this issue it's so bad when you combine it with all the other issues in the game like the terrible tyre model. Today I was doing the gt2 race on nurburgring and I literally wanted to pull my hair out I was getting so angry because you literally can't touch the power in those cars without the back end kicking out because the terrible throttle control, the terrible tyre model and combined with that the gt2 cars have pretty bad turbo lag.

 

[Sharpie]

I am completely sick of this issue it's so bad when you combine it with all the other issues in the game like the terrible tyre model. Today I was doing the gt2 race on nurburgring and I literally wanted to pull my hair out I was getting so angry because you literally can't touch the power in those cars without the back end kicking out because the terrible throttle control, the terrible tyre model and combined with that the gt2 cars have pretty bad turbo lag.

Is it feels like driving on ice?

 

[UnkaD]

Is it feels like driving on ice?

Any corners where you drop below 80 mph can feel that way. The Gr.2 cars have really forced me to get a handle on the throttle, but you can still lose time if you are too careful as well. Some guys are able to hit that sweet spot where the rear tires are just barely on the edge of breaking traction without actually doing it.

I feel it's like a ballet between your thumbs, or hands and feet(I alternate between DS4 and wheel), where you have to gradually feed throttle as you back out of steering angle in a rehearsed simultaneous dance. I still feel it would be greatly less difficult if the throttle was linear, as any little misstep in this dance can leave me falling flat on my face in a figurative sense.

 

[barkohba]

I used to have similar issues when I was using the G29 setup. I changed a few months back to the T-GT, and I almost don't have this issue anyomre (easier to control the throttle, even breaking without ABS is no longer a nightmare, though still tough). I know that the T-GT pedals have a much, much bigger resolution (16 bit vs a much lower one on the G29). I assume this has something to do with it.

 

[super_gt]

I know that the T-GT pedals have a much, much bigger resolution (16 bit

Do you have link(proof) for that?

As far as I know Logitech pedals have 8-bit(256 values) resolution ,Thrustmaster pedals 10-bit(1024 values).

 

[RickyGT]

Wonder if the new physics at the gt world tour also managed to fix it or there was no difference between the normal game. The tyre model was new, but can anyone who attended it tell us if they felt some differences on the throttle?

 

[barkohba]

Do you have link(proof) for that?

As far as I know Logitech pedals have 8-bit(256 values) resolution ,Thrustmaster pedals 10-bit(1024 values).

Yeah, the 16-bit part was for the wheel. The T-GT T3PGT pedals have 10 bit resolution (1024) vs 8 bit (256 steps) on the G29. When I switched to the T-GT, that was one of the biggest differences after the much, much more detailed FFB. You can modulate breaks and throttle much better.

 

[ARTAsean]

Yeah, the 16-bit part was for the wheel. The T-GT T3PGT pedals have 10 bit resolution (1024) vs 8 bit (256 steps) on the G29. When I switched to the T-GT, that was one of the biggest differences after the much, much more detailed FFB. You can modulate breaks and throttle much better.

Placebo. At the end of the day you're still controlling 50% of the throttle with 20% travel.

 

[iName]

Non linear throttle and steering is a plague in racing games nowadays. GT6 along with the Forza’s (from what I can see) are the last bastions of linear controls. It just doesn’t make sense why this has taken off so much, I’m sure even casuals find it somewhat difficult.

 

[Traks1]

GTS is the only driving game I know that has this vile adaptation to my knowledge. Stand to be corrected of course.

 

[Imari]

Yeah, the 16-bit part was for the wheel. The T-GT T3PGT pedals have 10 bit resolution (1024) vs 8 bit (256 steps) on the G29. When I switched to the T-GT, that was one of the biggest differences after the much, much more detailed FFB. You can modulate breaks and throttle much better.

That's down to the physical nature of the equipment, not the resolution. The difference between 256 and 1024 states isn't going to make a massive difference to the drivability. Even at 256 bit you're talking fractional millimeters of movement per bit. At 1024 you're talking hundredths of a mm per bit, and I just don't believe that you're that accurate with your foot when you're halfway through Eu Rouge, Mr. Hamilton.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Any corners where you drop below 80 mph can feel that way. The Gr.2 cars have really forced me to get a handle on the throttle, but you can still lose time if you are too careful as well. Some guys are able to hit that sweet spot where the rear tires are just barely on the edge of breaking traction without actually doing it.

I feel it's like a ballet between your thumbs, or hands and feet(I alternate between DS4 and wheel), where you have to gradually feed throttle as you back out of steering angle in a rehearsed simultaneous dance. I still feel it would be greatly less difficult if the throttle was linear, as any little misstep in this dance can leave me falling flat on my face in a figurative sense.

I can assure you that the dance is easier with a linear throttle. Just look at my throttle bar here in GT6.



On my best of days in GT Sport, I can get somewhat close to that kind of finesse for a lap or two but not for a whole race.

 

[barkohba]

That's down to the physical nature of the equipment, not the resolution. The difference between 256 and 1024 states isn't going to make a massive difference to the drivability. Even at 256 bit you're talking fractional millimeters of movement per bit. At 1024 you're talking hundredths of a mm per bit, and I just don't believe that you're that accurate with your foot when you're halfway through Eu Rouge, Mr. Hamilton.

You can believe whatever you want, my friend. I dunno about how accurate I would be through *Eau Rouge in GTSport, since Spa is not in the game, but I'm here just to let folks know my input, which is I'm MUCH more accurate with the throttle input on the T3PGT pedals since is switched from the Logitech, and it must also be down to the hardware. Using no TC on most of the cars (on the Renault RS01 for example, I do use 1 TC due to the jaggy 1st speed throttle response), I hardly ever accidentally input too much throttle and spin out anymore.

No need to get salty, we don't know each other and thus can't judge each other's sim racing capabilities. I'm just here to lay down a fact I personally experienced with the T-GT setup. Relax

 

[barkohba]

Placebo. At the end of the day you're still controlling 50% of the throttle with 20% travel.

I really don't think so. I'm consistently more accurate with the T-GT setup, and spin out at slow corners due to throttle input much less. I just tried it and although I didn't use a meter to check the travel percisely, I'm pretty positive 50% input on this pedal is right on the half-mark line in the GTS throttle info-meter. The differences also translate to the break pedal, where now I can finally threshold break (when using no ABS) without instantly locking the breaks, something that I found basically impossible with the G29 pedals.

 

[Greycap]

It might be down to the hardware but the resolution isn't the game changer. Different pedal travels, different linearization curves, different springs - now those do actually make a difference. Whether 1 mm of pedal travel means going up two or ten values doesn't change a thing because even those two are minuscule and the ten are minuscule divided by five.

 

[barkohba]

It might be down to the hardware but the resolution isn't the game changer. Different pedal travels, different linearization curves, different springs - now those do actually make a difference. Whether 1 mm of pedal travel means going up two or ten values doesn't change a thing because even those two are minuscule and the ten are minuscule divided by five.

Then maybe it's the spring, maybe it's the way the T-GT (which happens to be the official GTS wheel) pedals are mapped in the game, I don't know, all I know is this:

I used to have a G29 setup. Worked great in AC, PC2, but not so great in GTS. Besides the lack of FFB detail, I had a lot of issues controlling both the throttle and the break (particularly without ABS). 3 months ago I got myself a T-GT, and on the pedal department, the differences are quite big in GTS: much much better throttle and break control - no abnormal throttle spikes and accidental spin-outs, much improved threshold breaking without ABS, and without locking the breaks instantly. The CLEAR difference between the two pedals is the 4x higher resolution on the T-GT. Can that be the DEFINITIVE reason? I don't know, I never stated it clearly is, just that this happens to be a big differentiation between the two. Might be mapping, etc. Fact is, if you ask me (and most probably anyone using a T-GT setup), they'll most likely state the same. There is a big difference in the way the pedals behave in T-GT, and it's a positive difference.

 

[Krypton78]

Then maybe it's the spring, maybe it's the way the T-GT (which happens to be the official GTS wheel) pedals are mapped in the game, I don't know, all I know is this:

I used to have a G29 setup. Worked great in AC, PC2, but not so great in GTS. Besides the lack of FFB detail, I had a lot of issues controlling both the throttle and the break (particularly without ABS). 3 months ago I got myself a T-GT, and on the pedal department, the differences are quite big in GTS: much much better throttle and break control - no abnormal throttle spikes and accidental spin-outs, much improved threshold breaking without ABS, and without locking the breaks instantly. The CLEAR difference between the two pedals is the 4x higher resolution on the T-GT. Can that be the DEFINITIVE reason? I don't know, I never stated it clearly is, just that this happens to be a big differentiation between the two. Might be mapping, etc. Fact is, if you ask me (and most probably anyone using a T-GT setup), they'll most likely state the same. There is a big difference in the way the pedals behave in T-GT, and it's a positive difference.

I can completely agree to this. As I wrote in some other threads, I had a T150 then G29 and now T-GT.

Firstival I needed to get used to the way longer travel ways of the pedals, but now I'm very happy about it. Especially after I mounted the rubber mod (which is inside the package from begining) at the brake pedal. I barely could control Gr.2 Honda without CSA but now its way better.

I also don't think that it has something to do with the higher resolution, at least not primary, but in the end the throttle is somehow more easy to control.

 

[Griffith500]

on the Renault RS01 for example, I do use 1 TC due to the jaggy 1st speed throttle response

And there it is. "Jaggy response" is exactly the problem everyone is having.

Yes, certain controllers will ameliorate that more or less, (either mechanically, or "digitally") but the underlying problem persists.

It doesn't change the fact that the throttle curve is essentially wrong and extremely debilitating for the majority of players, and "upgrading" hardware is not technically necessary in order to fix it.


Unless the throttle curve was calibrated to be just OK on one particular peripheral and useless on everything else (including Sony's), but that would be plain idiotic (Sony.)

 

[barkohba]

And there it is. "Jaggy response" is exactly the problem everyone is having.

Yes, certain controllers will ameliorate that more or less, (either mechanically, or "digitally") but the underlying problem persists.

It doesn't change the fact that the throttle curve is essentially wrong and extremely debilitating for the majority of players, and "upgrading" hardware is not technically necessary in order to fix it.


Unless the throttle curve was calibrated to be just OK on one particular peripheral and useless on everything else (including Sony's), but that would be plain idiotic (Sony.)

As I specified, in my current setup, the jaggy rpm spikes that make a care hard to control in lower gears, is ONLY present in the RS01. Virtually any other car, especially Gr3 ones, are very smooth.