North Korea, Sanctions, and Kim Jong-un

Maybe it's a question of what less you can do. The constant military exercises antagonise the North. China and Russia think they can get Kim to back down if military drills in the area are suspended.

....But that's one of those Catch-22 situations, isn't it? The drills are performed annually because of the NK regime and their periodical sabre rattlings.

The military exercises should stop when NK stop with testing their rockets and start playing ball with its neighbours. But they are not going to anytime soon, and the drills continue.
 
The drills are performed annually because of the NK regime and their periodical sabre rattlings.
Just about all of the analysis of the situation that I have seen suggests that the North's priority is ensuring the continuity of the regime. That fundamentally changes the approach to handling them.

But they are not going to anytime soon, and the drills continue.
What are you, twelve years old?

What is more important - resolving the situation or resolving the situation on terms favourable to America?
 
Just about all of the analysis of the situation that I have seen suggests that the North's priority is ensuring the continuity of the regime. That fundamentally changes the approach to handling them.

What are you, twelve years old?

What is more important - resolving the situation or resolving the situation on terms favourable to America?
Yes, because those are the only two possibilities:lol:
 
Yes, because those are the only two possibilities:lol:

What gets me is every time he posts in this thread, I have to stop and think, "gee he didn't ever answers questions in relation the the six party talks that I asked about that show exactly what happened when the U.S. was willing to back down". Or how under Un's father they just said screw everyone and rescinded. I'm trying really, really hard to see this perspective form the other side.
 
I have to stop and think, "gee he didn't ever answers questions in relation the the six party talks that I asked about that show exactly what happened when the U.S. was willing to back down".
Those talks amount to "you disarm and then we'll start talking" even though the purpose of the talks is to get the North to disarm. They're almost designed to fail.
 
Those talks amount to "you disarm and then we'll start talking" even though the purpose of the talks is to get the North to disarm. They're almost designed to fail.

No they weren't and that's an easy cop out, we could hash out the time line of what they did, and why we're here. Simply go back to what I posted on this subject.
 
Just about all of the analysis of the situation that I have seen suggests that the North's priority is ensuring the continuity of the regime. That fundamentally changes the approach to handling them.

Wouldn't diplomatic relations with the U.S. expedite the fall of the regime? It seems like a majority of the power they have over their citizens comes from convincing them the world outside is trying to destroy them, mainly the U.S. It seems like it would do quite a bit of damage if they were they to suddenly start telling their citizens that the U.S. isn't all that bad.

What are you, twelve years old?

Come on now, you're far better than this sort of crap.

What is more important - resolving the situation or resolving the situation on terms favourable to America?

According to his info, he is from South Africa, I doubt he cares about U.S. interests.
 
It seems like it would do quite a bit of damage if they were they to suddenly start telling their citizens that the U.S. isn't all that bad.
Or they would spin it as "we got the Americans to back down" and use it to maintain continuity. After all, Pyongyang controls all the media and therefore control public perception.

Come on now, you're far better than this sort of crap.
That's what it amounts to. The North won't back down because they don't want to appear weak. The United States won't back down because they don't want to embolden Pyongyang. They're like a pair of twelve year-olds who seem destined to have a fight because neither will put their pride upon the shelf.

According to his info, he is from South Africa, I doubt he cares about U.S. interests.
I'm thinking more in terms of the deal proposed by China and Russia. China and Russia suggested that the North ends their missile program and America suspend military drills. It could be a viable solution, but we'll never know because the Americans will not agree to it.

Simply go back to what I posted on this subjec
Please refresh my memory.
 
Or they would spin it as "we got the Americans to back down" and use it to maintain continuity. After all, Pyongyang controls all the media and therefore control public perception.

People would probably than start to wonder why they than still can't travel unrestricted and you soon have civil unrest, which isn't good for a dictatorship.

That's what it amounts to. The North won't back down because they don't want to appear weak. The United States won't back down because they don't want to embolden Pyongyang. They're like a pair of twelve year-olds who seem destined to have a fight because neither will put their pride upon the shelf.

The U.S. along with a good portion of the world's super powers have been trying to work with NK since 1985, NK hasn't been very willing to budge or hold up their side when they do. Perhaps the U.S. is just done trying words now that NK is starting to pose a real threat.

I'm thinking more in terms of the deal proposed by China and Russia. China and Russia suggested that the North ends their missile program and America suspend military drills. It could be a viable solution, but we'll never know because the Americans will not agree to it.

There have been several deals with NK over the years, they've broken every one, so perhaps you can understand why the U.S. is a little apprehensive to suspend the drills.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron
 
That's what it amounts to. The North won't back down because they don't want to appear weak. The United States won't back down because they don't want to embolden Pyongyang. They're like a pair of twelve year-olds who seem destined to have a fight because neither will put their pride upon the shelf.
You make it sound like the answer to every international situation is to back down and run away with your tail between your legs. Chamberlin backed down from Hitler and 55 million people died. Kennedy didn't back down from Khruschev and millions of Americans didn't die in nuclear fire. This isn't a schoolyard fight like you seem to think it is. There is a homicidal maniac with nuclear weapons threatening to use them. There's no way of knowing what is going on in the little pea brain of his. He might even see backing down as weakness and fear and as a sign that he should attack because victory is destiny or some 🤬 like that.
 
There is a homicidal maniac with nuclear weapons threatening to use them. There's no way of knowing what is going on in the little pea brain of his. He might even see backing down as weakness and fear and as a sign that he should attack because victory is destiny or some 🤬 like that.

Which one are we talking about? - it works both ways.
 
Just about all of the analysis of the situation that I have seen suggests that the North's priority is ensuring the continuity of the regime.

...Oh, so NK's regime wants pretty much the exact same thing as the leaders of every nation on earth, then. Good to know.

What are you, twelve years old?

...Classy.

Just so you know, if I was 12, then I'd be violating GTP's minimum age limit. Since I'm here typing this, obviously I'm not.
 
I meant how many of the 2 people being discussed. The current leaders of the USA and North Korea.
Doesn't really matter. All 3 dropped bombs just the same, unless you want to insinuate they were being dropped for ****s & giggles instead of an intended purpose.
 
Doesn't really matter. All 3 dropped bombs just the same, unless you want to insinuate they were being dropped for ****s & giggles instead of an intended purpose.
I don't disagree with you. I was responding to posts about two specific individual leaders.
Didnt trump launch an attack on Syria after that chemical attack, or those air strikes on ISIS.
I believe so, yes.
 
So you're equating Trump acting as Commander in Chief to a petty little dictator that has had his family and friends murdered?

Come on, that would be a great Team America movie. There are times when they each act as comedically as the other. In a sinister sort of way.
 
Oh, so NK's regime wants pretty much the exact same thing as the leaders of every nation on earth, then.
Which is markedly different than a rogue state walking around pointing a nuclear weapon at people and threatening them; thus, it demands a different response.

Classy.

Just so you know, if I was 12, then I'd be violating GTP's minimum age limit. Since I'm here typing this, obviously I'm not
My subsequent post makes it clear that I was referring to America and the North as a pair of twelve year olds.
 
The Korean War began as a direct consequence of the very dubious way Korea was parceled out (to themselves) by the victorious allies of WWII.

At one point, the UN forces were driven from the 38th parallel into a small perimeter around Pusan. Later, the self-righteous MacArthur counterattacked all the way to the Chinese border at the Yalu. Then the Chinese army poured across and drove the allies south of Seoul. More bloody fighting brought a stalemate and an armistice or temporary truce which prevails today.

Today the Chinese are saying that North Korea is not their responsibility. But you can bet your combat boots it would become their responsibility PDQ if we attacked and invaded across the DMZ, and threatened to roll the Kim gang back up to the Yalu.

Also today the elected leadership of the South is making diplomacy - not warlike - noises, not wanting to get their capital city leveled in a matter of hours should hostilities recommence.

We in the western US are starting to get our panties in a knot over the prospect of North Korean nukes reducing our richest and most beautiful cities to glowing ashes should our hapless leadership allow the Kim gang a few more years to perfect his ICBMs.

It's a puzzling problem, no doubt about it.


A map showing successive North Korean advance. The Pusan Perimeter is the border of the green portion of the peninsula.
 
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