OK, I have to say something - but sorry for not saying anything

[nk4e]

Why pay extra content? That is most likely a Microsoft thing.

 

[Japspecvr6]

Im pretty there gonna have DLC but I sure hope its additional stuff as dave said, and i hope there good on the price point ( do you see how much those videos cost ).

 

[AutoAki]

Why pay extra content? That is most likely a Microsoft thing.

Why PD would make extra-content for free? It pays huge amount of dollars to them scan tracks, and model new cars what comes every year from every manufacturer.

They are company in the end, and companies purpose is doing cash to their owners... it's sad for us, but that's just how things goes.

 

[PAPPACLART]

That a good point, I agree with you 100%!

👍

I do not mnd paying for extra content (as it takes time and money to make it), providing that when GT5 hits our shops, it is a complete, and content filled game.

What I suspect tho, if PD did decide to charge for extra content, then everything will be there already and made, but most of the game is given to us on disc, with the rest offered up at a later date, for our hard earned $£.This would be sad, but developers see online content downloads as a sure way to keep money coming in, so expect to see more half assed games with expansion packs and DLC in exchange for our cash!

 

[nk4e]

Why PD would make extra-content for free? It pays huge amount of dollars to them scan tracks, and model new cars what comes every year from every manufacturer.

They are company in the end, and companies purpose is doing cash to their owners... it's sad for us, but that's just how things goes.

Most likely, they will have the most recognizable tracks that a majority will play on, including their own. If they made the consumer to pay for tracks and cars. I would of suggested that they worked on GT4 Online like they promised.
PC games never have to pay for updates nor for mods and they are companies also(Valve, Blizzard,Steam). Its the quality of the game that gets the best of gamers. That is why Left 4 Dead is better on PC than on the 360. If you said that its a different market, then that is understandable.

 

[Watevaman]

Why PD would make extra-content for free? It pays huge amount of dollars to them scan tracks, and model new cars what comes every year from every manufacturer.

Because they're one of the nicest and most generous game developers out there?


Honestly, most DLC is probably stuff that the companies held back from the initial release anyway, which is what pisses me off most. That's not to say I wouldn't buy GT5 DLC, but if they release something like 5 cars at a time for more than $2 or so, it's going to get expensive with the way PD does stuff.

 

[nk4e]

I would prefer quality over quantity.(Just like how PD was doing with Gran Turismo all these years) But releasing content once in awhile is cool. Sales will add up and newer tracks being released. Like Willow Springs being in GT5 or some of the Drift Tracks and some Rally Stages. AT A REASONABLE PRICE!

 

[RedBaron]

YES, YES, YES! I am for DLC, because content is the main slowing element in GT. Imagine GT5 already done 2 years for Prologue price and bunch of cars and tracks for ten bucks now and then. This would never get boring such as Prologue!

 

[AutoAki]

We will see how things are going to be.

I'm sure GT5 will still be samekind of big package like all other GT's in the past, but times are changing, and Online is taking bigger and bigger part in racing-games.

Many of us have been grown up with PS1 and PS2, and stucked up to those standards and way how GT 'must be'. In my mind, all these huge past GT's, and career-modes were only there because CD/DVD was only way to deliver, and 'arcade-mode' only way to make game interesting.

There was no chance to do patches, and extra-stuff after release, so they must do big game perfectly, or they would fail.

Now in these days, almost everybody have DSL, and those who dont, can always take their machine with them, and upload patches and new stuff someway.


Have anybody ever even think about, that career-mode what you like so much, could be mixed with Online-racing?
That kind of improve would totally make me interest of 'career-mode' also! Tenths of Online-ranking Time-Trials and Races, where you could win cars, and trophys when racing against real peoples.

It's only about using imagination how those things should be done, or work, but it would definetly beat racing against non-spirit AI's

 

[FoolKiller]

Where were all these fans of over-priced DLC when they mentioned it the first time around?

I'll say it again: If these fans of DLC gain steam and I get less content than GT4 for more than $60 I will hold each of you personally responsible.

Since when did less content and a rushed game suddenly become a good idea?

Have anybody ever even think about, that career-mode what you like so much, could be mixed with Online-racing?
That kind of improve would totally make me interest of 'career-mode' also! Tenths of Online-ranking Time-Trials and Races, where you could win cars, and trophys when racing against real peoples.

It's only about using imagination how those things should be done, or work, but it would definetly beat racing against non-spirit AI's

Um, so what about people with "slow" broadband connections or no broadband connections? They get a near unplayable, or unplayable experience just so you can have it your way?

Your problem is that you want it to be just this game you envision, when GT has always managed to cater to give everyone something. So what if it has career mode as long as it does have online? Then people with and without the ability to go online can still enjoy it. What you are asking for is going to exclude a number of people and I can't support that.

 

[nk4e]

They did mixed Career and Online together in Forza 2 but that is only for money. But let GT5 release and then discuss what they should of done.

 

[Obli]

Since when did less content and a rushed game suddenly become a good idea?

It hasn't become a good idea... only to those that have lost patience.

Stand strong guys!

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

If there are a few things that GT is most definitely known for, it is the graphics, the AMOUNT of content found in their games, along WITH the quality of the game itself. Sometimes, that is difficult to find, and a lot of the time, you may only end up with quality over quantity, or quantity over quality. It's when those gems appear is when you get both...hence the GT series.

In my eyes, if the GT series all of the sudden started catering to this "pay-as-you-go" type of game layout, as many have talked about, I think this takes away a little bit of GT's soul. When someone picks up a GT game (not a prologue), they are probably expecting:
1. Amazing graphics
2. A ton of cars, more than any other games have ever done without download packs or mods for PC's.
3. A long, grueling, and fun game that is jam packed with stuff to do, and to top it all off, almost everything is of high-quality.

So, even though I'm able to download extra content, I think it would be a huge mistake to make it a micro-transaction type of a game, and as FoolKiller has said many times, it doesn't allow for the rest of the crowd to enjoy the game as much if it is transaction based. My 2 cents.

 

[AutoAki]

Where were all these fans of over-priced DLC when they mentioned it the first time around?

I'll say it again: If these fans of DLC gain steam and I get less content than GT4 for more than $60 I will hold each of you personally responsible.

Since when did less content and a rushed game suddenly become a good idea?

No worries about them changing their developing-strategy because few of us who liked to have that game now, and those cars and tracks which are still under work, later when theyre done.

My wishes are assumed on situation, that PD already have ready done: Game-engine, good Online-mode, Tyre-wear, Fuel-economic, Pit-stops, Mechanical-damage, tenths of cars and tracks.

Thats all I need to Prologue, and I would be ready to pay for that kind of DLC-package rather than wait almost year for getting full version of GT5.

If this Tuned-Prologue would work in same online with full GT5 also, I'd rather buy some of those rest of tracks and cars too, than Full Version with lots of useless stuff for me.

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

No worries about them changing their developing-strategy because few of us who liked to have that game now, and those cars and tracks which are still under work, later when theyre done.

My wishes are assumed on situation, that PD already have ready done: Game-engine, good Online-mode, Tyre-wear, Fuel-economic, Pit-stops, Mechanical-damage, tenths of cars and tracks.

Thats all I need to Prologue, and I would be ready to pay for that kind of DLC-package rather than wait almost year for getting full version of GT5.

If this Tuned-Prologue would work in same online with full GT5 also, I'd rather buy some of those rest of tracks and cars too, than Full Version with lots of useless stuff for me.

I see where you are coming from...but to the general public, if PD were to make a tuned-prologue, and the release the full GT5, and then have them be compatible with each other online?? I think it would drive casual gamers away in a sense because they may not understand what the heck PD is doing. Enough people seemed to have gotten confused enough with GT5 Prologue, and there has always been a controversy of what that game is. Is it a game? Is it a demo? Know one seems to know.

This would probably make matters even more confusing for everyone, whether it caters to you or not, the situation has to be looked at as a whole, and not just us hardcore fans.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

So, you like being nickle and dimed? If I wind up paying more than $60 and have less than a full version would have had if they waited how do I come out ahead? I want all the cars, all the tracks, and all the choices, but I do not want to have a Polyphony Digital subscription fee.

I do not want to be weighing whether or not I think the latest pack of cars/tracks is worth the extra money.

I have work, family, and friends too and I don't want to get your favorite car game while waiting for cars that I want to play with to be made available for DLC at $2 a pop.

FK I give you major props and have a great deal of respect for much of your shared opinions, and as much as one can via a message board, I consider you a friend... but I have to call you out on this issue.

After all, you have shown very little restraint in regards to buying dozens upon dozens of DLC songs for Rock Band and SingStar, of which are often as much as $2 a song.... and frankly I would gladly trade in a 3-min song that I might play many times for a favorite car that I might enjoy several hours worth of gameplay with.

Yes, we all would LOVE to get a "full" game for just $50-60 and never consider thinking about having to buy any DLC, but the reality is that some of these games cost a fortune to make, and the benefit of DLC is it allows people to decide what they want and are willing to pay for to enhance their gameplay.

Let's face it, Rock Band is not even close to being as technically advanced in terms of development cost as GT5P, yet you not only were willing to shell out quite a lot for the game as well as the necessary hardware accesories, but also more than $200 on DLC songs.

If Rock Band had come out with all hardware and those songs prepackaged at a cost of $500, how many people would actually have bought it?

So yes, DLC can actually be a good thing, and allows more people to enjoy a game, and others to pay extra to enhance the gameplay to better match their specific wants and needs.

The other nice thing about DLC (except for those of us who spend a lot on songs) is it means for less than the cost of the game itself, you can often extend the gameplay of a favorite game more so than simply buying a new game.

Look, I understand times are VERY tough, and I personally have been tremendously impacted, and seen my retirement plan get thrown out the window and shattered in a million pieces. I have also recently discovered that both my parents and my in-laws are in very serious trouble financially and so not only am I scrambling to make sure my own family, a wife and two kids, are being taken care of, but I am also having to do that for my parents and in-laws. These are tough times, and they are going to get tougher...

However, I'm also not going to let myself get trapped into the mind set that GT5 is or even should be released as a "full" game in terms of not having any DLC, or being 10x let alone 50x the size of GT5P. That's absurd, and falls flat in terms of comparing development cost and the predictable rate of return in terms of revenue from sales. GT4 was an insane bargains for the amount of content people got, and no other game before or since even comes close to comparing to it's size of content for the same amount of money.

Again, this just comes right back down to the fact that many people have incredibly unrealistic expectations and even demands, and either they are just setting themselves up for disappointment, or they are just setting everyone else up for their upcoming Internet ranting once the game is released and fails to meet their insanely high expectations/demands.

And for the record, I'm definitely not saying you personally have insanely high expectations/demands, only that many appear to.

One package, one price, and the complaints never go beyond what they have always been.

It's the Internet... complaints ALWAYS increase and get louder no matter what.

 

[monoha]

Off topic

Codemasters once again show how little effort is needed to keep your fanbase keen.

Today they showed a laser scanned screenshot of Spa, it not only generates publicity, it shows their F1 game, along with iracing, will have the most realistic tracks in any videogame.

Laser scanned tracks are the kind of technological breakthrough GT5 needs

What is it that tells you that laser scanned tracks is 'most' realistic then tracks generated from photos or other methods? Because laser scan sounds 'cool'? For your information Photogrammetry gives the same or better precision then laser scans in such application.
​

 

[AutoAki]

Um, so what about people with "slow" broadband connections or no broadband connections? They get a near unplayable, or unplayable experience just so you can have it your way?

Well, youre right about that. I never thought that somebody who buys PS3, have no broadband connections. It actually would be interesting to know how many PS3 users are outside Online.

Your problem is that you want it to be just this game you envision, when GT has always managed to cater to give everyone something. So what if it has career mode as long as it does have online? Then people with and without the ability to go online can still enjoy it. What you are asking for is going to exclude a number of people and I can't support that.

I'm just starting to afraid, that this new part of GT, is again mainly based on Arcade-mode, and huge size of content. I dont see anything bad, to having both, Career- and Online-mode, but I feel that this big wait is mostly because career-mode and those hundreds of cars and tracks what they need to do for that.

Maybe PD should release two discs again like in past. This time: Disc 1, Career (2011). Disc 2, Online (2009).

 

[Patrik]

I'm just starting to afraid, that this new part of GT, is again mainly based on Arcade-mode, and huge size of content. I dont see anything bad, to having both, Career- and Online-mode, but I feel that this big wait is mostly because career-mode and those hundreds of cars and tracks what they need to do for that.

Maybe PD should release two discs again like in past. This time: Disc 1, Career (2011). Disc 2, Online (2009).

?

Career and arcade mode is a must. It's a tradition within the GT series. But also of course a great online mode is a must.

How can you think a career mode is what takes time with making the game?

And that thing you say about two discs makes me think you're high on something.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Codemasters once again show how little effort is needed to keep your fanbase keen.

Today they showed a laser scanned screenshot of Spa, it not only generates publicity, it shows their F1 game, along with iracing, will have the most realistic tracks in any videogame.

Laser scanned tracks are the kind of technological breakthrough GT5 needs.

Off topic

What is it that tells you that laser scanned tracks is 'most' realistic then tracks generated from photos or other methods? Because laser scan sounds 'cool'? For your information Photogrammetry gives the same or better precision then laser scans in such application.
​

I'm glad someone understands this! 👍

Laser scanning is far less expensive and much faster... not better in terms of accuracy. JAGUAR1977... have you not even seen the tracks in GT5P yet?

 

[AutoAki]

?

Career and arcade mode is a must. It's a tradition within the GT series. But also of course a great online mode is a must.

How can you think a career mode is what takes time with making the game?

And that thing you say about two discs makes me think you're high on something.

I'm starting to afraid that 'career' and 'arcade'-modes are the reason for delays, because those need to be full done, when releasing GT5.

To Online you could always get new features, cars and tracks by DLC... payable or free. But to Arcade mode that would be littlebit tricky I think?

 

[Patrik]

I'm starting to afraid that 'career' and 'arcade'-modes are the reason for delays, because those need to be full done, when releasing GT5.

But HOW can you possibly think so!? What takes time is making car models, tracks, physics, damage, sound and so on. A career mode they could throw together in only a few weeks I guess.

I don't get what you mean.

EDIT: It probably takes a lot more time to get the online mode to work properly than to include a career mode.

 

[AutoAki]

But HOW can you possibly think so!? What takes time is making car models, tracks, physics, damage, sound and so on. A career mode they could throw together in only a few weeks I guess.

I don't get what you mean.

Yep... making those cars and tracks and so on takes time... all of them until release GT5.

In 'Online-Disc', you could have always something new when it's done... bit by bit. In the end, you could have all the same cars and tracks and so on, than in GT5.

Think like this Prologue is that 'Online-Disc', just without those added DLC's. I'm sure they have lots of content ready there in PD, but they cant release GT5, because everything aint ready, and it ruines Arcade-mode perhaps?


Edit: If Online is their biggest issue why this game takes so long, I'm amazed. Online really is not so new thing, that it should be trouble to Sony and PD. So many smaller companies have handled that fine also.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

I went and took a look at the screenshot....looks like that's going to be pretty accurate, and like you said, hopefully GT5 has done the same.

Now I'm not a computer programmer or anything, but my questions is, would there be any difference in track detail when comparing a GT fantasy course and a real-life location? The reason I ask is because if they are laser-scanning these tracks for all of the data, but with the fantasy tracks not based on real locations, PD is making these from scratch some how, and they still look brilliant.

Is it the fact that they have to take the laser-scanned data, and put it into the game, and put it in the same amount of detail that the PS3 will allow, and then would they do this when creating their own tracks...almost like a set standard?? Just curious if anyone knows how they do it....I find it very interesting. I don't know if I explained that well, but I tried

Laser scanning comes into it's own with the track surface and track width, the rest can be modelled without it, as happens with GT5P now.

GT5P's circuits are very smooth, real circuits, particularly street circuits, tend to be very rough.

PD could use surfaces from real circuits on fantasy circuits, mix and matching what fits best.

 

[FoolKiller]

FK I give you major props and have a great deal of respect for much of your shared opinions, and as much as one can via a message board, I consider you a friend... but I have to call you out on this issue.

I knew this was coming. I'm a DLC whore when it comes to things I love. Hopefully, I can explain to you why GT is different.

After all, you have shown very little restraint in regards to buying dozens upon dozens of DLC songs for Rock Band and SingStar, of which are often as much as $2 a song.... and frankly I would gladly trade in a 3-min song that I might play many times for a favorite car that I might enjoy several hours worth of gameplay with.

I will save a lot of quoting and just go from here.

Never once did I say I would not buy GT5 if it were mainly DLC based, I just wouldn't like it as much. And I wouldn't rush out to buy it at launch...I don't think.

The difference between Rock Band and and GT is in the nature of the game. Never mind that the disc-based content of Rock Band already meets the standard set for music games of this nature, and all I ask is that GT5 meet the standard they have been setting for themselves in content. That would be an easy out.

What I am arguing against is paying $60 for something with the content of Prologue and then being asked from day one to pay extra if I want my hundreds of cars. You can give me GT3 level of content on the disc and I will be happy.

Now, even then I would still react differently to GT DLC than I do Rock Band DLC. Rock Band emulates music I know and love, or don't know and/or hate. Even when I don't know the songs on the DLC that week a quick You Tube search will present me with the song and the ability to determine if I would enjoy playing it on toy guitars.

But GT differs from this in something I have already pointed out in this thread. Having all of the cars available up front allows me to see something I don't recognize, or overlooked, and then check it out. If I don't like the car I have suffered no loss. Now, if the cars are mostly available in DLC one of two things will be a likely outcome. 1) They don't even bother with little <100hp sub compact oddities and the like, which tend to be the cars that grab my attention like this. 2) The little oddities will be an unknown to me. I can't go on You Tube and check out if I like it like I can a song.

And am I supposed to take the suggestions of others on here to make my purchasing decisions? Who else can tell me they have had station wagon races, mini van races, etc with friends? Would anyone have told me the Nissan Pao is a great buy, even if just for spits and giggles? Better yet, would I pay $0.99 or $1.99 to get a Nissan Pao, knowing I will mainly just be doing hot laps on the Nurburgring?

If all I wanted was Super/Race Car Challenge then I would see this as a great idea, but I can get that in any game. Nowhere else can I get tiny unheard of (in games) gems like a Nissan Pao or original Beetle.

I can point at every version of GT and point out some car I gained respect for that I either had no respect for, or had never even known it existed. If they were done in a microtransaction form I wouldn't have ever found those cars. In fact, if GT1 had been done in a microtransaction form I would have probably not gotten a PS1, and thus my gaming would still be on a PC and I would be on some Starcraft forum discussing Starcraft 2, and doing all my racing in GTR or LFS.

No, the great thing about GT is the discovery. If I am limited to only discovering when I pay as I go then what is my incentive to discover? Suddenly it is a gamble. If I like my purchase, yay! If I don't I am out cash that I wish I hadn't spent.


I am not being some miser about my nickles and dimes, although I did bring it across that way. In my defense GT has given itself a content standard and my initial reaction to changing that would, and for this discussion, has been, negative, but I would get over it. But it would not be the same game.

Kazunori Yamauchi has said that he wants Gran Turismo to be an encyclopedia of cars. If it is microtransaction based it would lose that.

The experience from Guitar Hero into Rock Band did not change when DLC was added (even though I started with Rock Band). The content on the disc was the same as before. The DLC expanded the experience and allows the user to pick and choose how they wish to expand it. It also made the ability to increase song selection happen much quicker than waiting for the next version to come out did.

If GT5 had a few hundred cars and two or three dozen tracks and then had DLC I would be fine with that. I am against this notion of a Prologue-sized game that is then expanded by DLC, because at that point they are making more off of me than if they had stuck to their traditional model, and it ruins the experience that only GT could bring to the table.


All this said, I do take back my comment about less content than GT4 for over $60. I will say less content that GT3 for over $60. GT4 had an insane amount of content and as the first full game on the PS3 I do not expect that much from GT5 up front.

If Rock Band had come out with all hardware and those songs prepackaged at a cost of $500, how many people would actually have bought it?

When Rock Band 2 was announced I actually calmed a lot of angry friends down by pointing out that they are getting 80 songs at $0.75 a piece plus a much needed update to the interface.

And for the record, I'm definitely not saying you personally have insanely high expectations/demands, only that many appear to.

I was about to become defensive. I think that I rarely complain about having my expectations not met.


And for the record, I would like to point out that I have yet to buy into episodic gaming where I wind up paying huge sums for the entire experience that could have been sold as a one time $20 game.

And someone will confront me with this, so here goes: Yes, this includes Watchmen: The End is Nigh. Unless I get a demo that proves to me it is worth two episodic segments I will be giving it the stink eye, despite my love for Watchmen.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

Off topic

What is it that tells you that laser scanned tracks is 'most' realistic then tracks generated from photos or other methods? Because laser scan sounds 'cool'? For your information Photogrammetry gives the same or better precision then laser scans in such application.
​

The fact the most realistic tracks in any sim are in iracing, they are laser scanned. Some of Rfactor's highest rated tracks are also laser scanned. Laser scannings advantage is not the look, it's the driving experience.

Google articles on iracing and rfactors laser scanned tracks.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

Regarding DLC, put it this way, I don't expect GT6 on the PS3.

I anticipate GT5 will be packed with content, but will be supplemented with a mix of free and pay DLC.

Manufactuers could pay PD to produce their latest car as a free DLC, likewise PD may produce pay car/track packs.

Along with music games, car games, particularly one as wide ranging as the GT series, is the ideal platform for DLC. Who wouldn't want to drive the latest Le Mans runners or motorshow stars as DLC, rather than waiting for GT6.

 

[PAPPACLART]

On PS3, With all of this talk of DLC, patches, game packs etc, will we have any room left on our PS3's

I have a few demos and 3 games installed, and I got 40 Gig left out of 80. What about when I got 15 games, all with DLC/patches/Game packs etc, as well as all our music, pictures etc.

I really don't want to have to uninstall games so that I can play others. And GT5, if it utilizes the full girth of a Blu-ray's 50GB, or if it is a 2 disc, where is the space going to go?

Yeah, we can install 320bhp, 500gb on our PS3's, but before long, other games will also utilzie the Blue-ray's size!

 

[JDMKING13]

regarding dlc, put it this way, i don't expect gt6 on the ps3.

I anticipate gt5 will be packed with content, but will be supplemented with a mix of free and pay dlc.

Manufactuers could pay pd to produce their latest car as a free dlc, likewise pd may produce pay car/track packs.

Along with music games, car games, particularly one as wide ranging as the gt series, is the ideal platform for dlc. Who wouldn't want to drive the latest le mans runners or motorshow stars as dlc, rather than waiting for gt6.

+1

 

[paskowitz]

I hate to be a party pooper, not that this discussion is not valid and worth while, but I think the point of this thread is getting lost in these mini debates. I think we really should be concerned with cracking amar's riddle by coming up with logical guesses.