OK, I have to say something - but sorry for not saying anything

[JDMKING13]

And yes, my NDA is killing me so much that I can't even tell you how much you should be hungry. But I can assure you it will be the Fiest of the Gods.

I love this part. Hungry has to mean Excited or info hungry (wanting more) what do you guys think.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Something so big is cooking, you can't even imagine the size of it.

( Well, A GT5 bigger than we anticipated, x2 50gig blue-rays, huge online events + competitions, huge number of tracks and cars, bigger than ever before, with many different track configs)





And there is something else cooking, which you can't even imagine the price of it. ( this one I am not sure of this one)




And the third thing is also in the oven, but you can't even imagine it's even baking. And besides that third thing there is something else in the oven, I'd say it's the oven itself. ( I am thinking, and hoping tourist trophy 2, but it is in the oven, as in it being a part of GT5)



And I guess everything will be presented in the gala dinner in the weeks or months to come, but at the E3 latest. (will this is apeaks for itself)

And then you'll find out that day of the Fiest is also known even today. ( I guess refering to the release date, which has been speculated )

And yes, my NDA is killing me so much that I can't even tell you how much you should be hungry. But I can assure you it will be the Fiest of the Gods.
(Well, we are hungry, starving infact, but maybe he is implying that we should be more hungry for what we want in GT5 becuase we are going to get much more than what we have asked in many ways)

Anyway, thats my take on it :-)

 

[fasj6418]

Everytime i read something like this, one thing goes through my mind: the only disppointment i can possibly have with the final game is the number of cars and tracks.

Replay value is really, really important to me, and i still dream with the possibility of 1000+ cars and +/-75 tracks. It´s a shame if the game releases with less than that... if that´s the case, all hopes are on the DLC. I mean, i got bored with GT3 quickly because it had only 140 cars and half of those were not to my liking.

Btw, Amar, i know NDA´s and understand your silence, but the only thing i will ask in this thread is: was your first post supposed to be a "crypted message"? Or it was just a regular post without much thinking on the choice of words?

 

[paskowitz]

I predict 500 cars (but no econo cars and no 45 variants of the z and GTR) and 50 tracks (including variations). If GT5 comes out with more than say 300 different models of cars I think I will be happy. BTW Amar if you can answer this without breaking your NDA please, have any of your clues been guessed correctly. In other words are there facts in this storm of speculation? (your posts do not count).

 

[Japspecvr6]

i hate to be a party pooper, not that this discussion is not valid and worth while, but i think the point of this thread is getting lost in these mini debates. I think we really should be concerned with cracking amar's riddle by coming up with logical guesses.

+2

 

[nk4e]

I could wait for GT5 to come out without any hints from a insider. Though I don't own a PS3.

 

[d3br34k5]

On PS3, With all of this talk of DLC, patches, game packs etc, will we have any room left on our PS3's

I have a few demos and 3 games installed, and I got 40 Gig left out of 80. What about when I got 15 games, all with DLC/patches/Game packs etc, as well as all our music, pictures etc.

I really don't want to have to uninstall games so that I can play others. And GT5, if it utilizes the full girth of a Blu-ray's 50GB, or if it is a 2 disc, where is the space going to go?

Yeah, we can install 320bhp, 500gb on our PS3's, but before long, other games will also utilzie the Blue-ray's size!

I upgraded my 40GB drive to a 320GB drive shortly after buying my PS3 back last may.

 

[Japspecvr6]

I could wait for GT5 to come out without any hints from a insider. Though I don't own a PS3.

Well hello.....Thats why.

 

[balang_479]

Anyway, thats my take on it :-)

Same.

 

[nk4e]

Well hello.....Thats why.

I was not excited and wanting it badly when GT4P came out either. I was happy with GT4 for a long time, nor did I really get into the scene but I wanted to try the real thing.

 

[Tenacious D]

One more thing about the possibility of a DLC version of GT5. I don't see how it could be viable.

See, for one thing, as has been pointed out before not all of us have broadband. Also, a GT5 which is like Prologue, practically empty - or perhaps completely empty - would be just about useless as a single player game. How could you possibly build any kind of single player template out of a blank game the buyer stocks up by picking and choosing cars and tracks? It would be impossible. Out the window goes the progression through the game, the prize money and cars, the license tests, the used car lots, the Tuner Village would be useless if you didn't buy the right cars for it, etc. It would be an online only Gran Turismo, and I'd hate that. Plus, if you didn't have broadband net access, GT5 would be a waste of your money. So, let's face it, a tiny GT5 you build up with DLC won't happen ever. The one thing that could possibly happen is for Polyphony to magically, for the cost of $20 US, allow you to download all the content for GT5 missing from Prologue and patch that in, or sell an install disc. But I seriously doubt that will happen either, because that has to require a serious chunk of hard drive space, and not everyone has 50 gigs free. I sure don't.

Ergo, GT5 is going to be the same old GT5. Not a decade's wait, but four years, less than half that. Size wise, I'm thinking GT5 is going to have somewhere between 500 - 1000 cars and 70 - 100 tracks. With a livery editor and a solid race mod/tuner builder, any shortage of cars would be no shortage at all. I'd be in heaven, and with an expansive Career Mode, I'd never have to touch another racing game again.

I also must say that PAPACLART's post above is very interesting...

 

[FatLeadFoot]

I hate to be a party pooper, not that this discussion is not valid and worth while, but I think the point of this thread is getting lost in these mini debates. I think we really should be concerned with cracking amar's riddle by coming up with logical guesses.

👍

 

[marky5244]

Something so big is cooking, you can't even imagine the size of it.

This Gran Turismo jigsaw seems quite big...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001PT0PVE/?tag=gtplanetuk-20

 

[Jay]

It's a picture of a R35 GTR (probably at the GTR Launch not GT5) turned into a jigsaw puzzle, dunno where they get GT5 out of that.

 

[FoolKiller]

Yeah, we can install 320bhp, 500gb on our PS3's, but before long, other games will also utilzie the Blue-ray's size!

Properly optimized Blu-Rays do not need large installs, if any. For an example see Uncharted, Killzone 2, or LittleBigPlanet.

Installs are a result of poor optimization by a developer, or a need for hard drive read speeds to make online smoother. All other installs are the result of patches and DLC.

 

[Jordan]

Properly optimized Blu-Rays do not need large installs, if any. For an example see Uncharted, Killzone 2, or LittleBigPlanet.

Installs are a result of poor optimization by a developer, or a need for hard drive read speeds to make online smoother. All other installs are the result of patches and DLC.

Actually, I would argue the opposite. All programs execute on computers from main memory. Before that can happen, the code must be loaded into it from some source - in this case, a file on HDD or Blu-Ray disc. The PS3's 2x BD drive can read that data at approximately 9MB/s, while the PS3's stock 5200 RPM drive has been benchmarked at 32MB/s. With such higher speeds, it would be optimal to place the entire game on the HDD, but that's not practical, so developers must compromise. Logically, it would make sense to put the software's basic framework (shared physics code that is executed on all tracks, as one example) on the faster drive. The more shared code that you have, the more you will need to store - it doesn't have anything to do with "optimization" of the Blu-Ray disc itself. It is also important to remember that once the code is loaded into main memory, the original source will not have any affect on the speed in which it is executed, including online performance.

 

[Patrik]

Yep... making those cars and tracks and so on takes time... all of them until release GT5.

In 'Online-Disc', you could have always something new when it's done... bit by bit. In the end, you could have all the same cars and tracks and so on, than in GT5.

Think like this Prologue is that 'Online-Disc', just without those added DLC's. I'm sure they have lots of content ready there in PD, but they cant release GT5, because everything aint ready, and it ruines Arcade-mode perhaps?


Edit: If Online is their biggest issue why this game takes so long, I'm amazed. Online really is not so new thing, that it should be trouble to Sony and PD. So many smaller companies have handled that fine also.

I'm getting more and more confused by your posts, period...

 

[AutoAki]

I'm getting more and more confused by your posts, period...

So am I about your confusion... what I meant, was not any higher-math. Well, English aint my best language.

 

[Max_DC]

New try

Something so big is cooking, you can't even imagine the size of it.

GT5, with lot of cars and tracks, release 2009, as supposed by others in this thread.

And there is something else cooking, which you can't even imagine the price of it.

PS3 GT5 bundle, 300 $/€. Industry talks about a 100$ cut on PS3 price.

And the third thing is also in the oven, but you can't even imagine it's even baking.

GT mobile - honestly, who still thinks that it is baking ?

And besides that third thing there is something else in the oven, I'd say it's the oven itself.

PSP2. Launch title GT mobile.

Not quite as fancy as my PS4 idea, but a little closer to reality

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

New try
GT5, with lot of cars and tracks, release 2009, as supposed by others in this thread.


PS3 GT5 bundle, 300 $/€. Industry talks about a 100$ cut on PS3 price.


GT mobile - honestly, who still thinks that it is baking ?


PSP2. Launch title GT mobile.

Not quite as fancy as my PS4 idea, but a little closer to reality

Now that I look at it, your ideas make a ton of sense and match up quite well with the code 👍

 

[FoolKiller]

Actually, I would argue the opposite. All programs execute on computers from main memory. Before that can happen, the code must be loaded into it from some source - in this case, a file on HDD or Blu-Ray disc. The PS3's 2x BD drive can read that data at approximately 9MB/s, while the PS3's stock 5200 RPM drive has been benchmarked at 32MB/s. With such higher speeds, it would be optimal to place the entire game on the HDD, but that's not practical, so developers must compromise. Logically, it would make sense to put the software's basic framework (shared physics code that is executed on all tracks, as one example) on the faster drive. The more shared code that you have, the more you will need to store - it doesn't have anything to do with "optimization" of the Blu-Ray disc itself. It is also important to remember that once the code is loaded into main memory, the original source will not have any affect on the speed in which it is executed, including online performance.

Yes, optimally it would be best to install everything on the HDD. But my point is why do we run into that situation on the PS3 when the 360 does not need this at all? Why are some multiplatform titles installing on the PS3 and not on the 360? We know the 360 can do it, in fact it is an option to help titles run faster.

One of the complaints made about the PS3 is the HDD installs. I am not saying that an optimized Blu-Ray is better than an HDD install. It is not a necessity of games or the 360 would be doing it too.

What I am referring to is what MTV Multiplayer discovered here:
http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008...es-mandatory-installations-as-far-as-we-know/
It isn't 100% conclusive, but they seem to be close to the explanation.

And I think the case here is not so much a matter of actual loading/reading speeds, but search time. Reading the article, games like COD4 and Burnout have no install but repeat the data on the BD.

So, you have to look at these things and ask, why does Killzone 2 have no install (supposedly)? Why does MGS4 have a large one? Why does LittleBigPlanet have a small install? All three games supposedly require Blu-Ray sized storage. Your explanation of loading assets to/from main memory and being better installed on the HDD makes since for an install the size of LBP's (<600MB). And I can see where MGS4 is doing that with each small chunk installed between chapters, but are all 4+GB necessary? Why does Killzone, with an obviously advanced physics engine not need any?

I could be wrong and developers that make it work without any installs are pointing us in the wrong direction, but from what I can gather Blu-Ray's speed combined with storage size is getting the blame here. The people who make it work are apparently finding ways to reduce the search time (optimizing may not be the word I really am looking for) so that the difference from an install is not enough to necessitate an HDD install.

Am I making sense? I'll admit to not being an expert and just going by what the developers are telling MTV here.

 

[Jordan]

Oh, OK, yes that makes a lot more sense! I'm not an expert, either - I'm in graduate school working towards a Master's degree and I find such technical topics an interesting opportunity to learn more. I was not aware that developers were duplicating data on discs to reduce loading time - that's a fascinating technique, and I understand now why you used the word 'optimization' to describe it. Despite its cleverness, however, it is still a 'hack' that cannot match HDD's speed, nor will it continue to be a practical solution as software reaches Blu-Ray's maximum capacity.

I doubt that capacity was the reasoning behind hefty HDD installations for the games in question (MGS4, GT5 Prologue, etc.), though. It most likely comes down to an element of choice, programmatic structure, and the developer's priorities. Those who focus on the quality of the overall experience (snappy transitions from different parts of the game, menus, etc.) are probably much more likely to make use of the PS3's expansive and fast internal storage. If they are more concerned about conserving HDD space and 'data duplication' works just as well for their software, then it only makes sense they would pursue that route.

Personally, I find the 'outrage' against HDD consumption to be quite strange, even a little bizarre. I value the 'overall experience', and I want everything to run as quickly and smoothly as possible. I can understand if someone is storing their entire media library on their console, but with the ease at which external/network drives can be connected to the PS3, it still leaves me scratching my head.

 

[FoolKiller]

Despite its cleverness, however, it is still a 'hack' that cannot match HDD's speed, nor will it continue to be a practical solution as software reaches Blu-Ray's maximum capacity.

I'm hopeful that the PS4 will have a much faster drive, thus eliminating this need.

I doubt that capacity was the reasoning behind hefty HDD installations for the games in question (MGS4, GT5 Prologue, etc.), though.

I am actually pretty sure in these two cases it is much more complex. Kojima is so set on making sure that there is zero loss I would not be surprised if there was no other way he would have been happy with. And Prologue, well that is Prologue. I have a feeling it also has to do with perfectionist ways not being happy with any other alternative.

Personally, I find the 'outrage' against HDD consumption to be quite strange, even a little bizarre. I value the 'overall experience', and I want everything to run as quickly and smoothly as possible. I can understand if someone is storing their entire media library on their console, but with the ease at which external/network drives can be connected to the PS3, it still leaves me scratching my head.

I don't think it is an outrage so much (although the referenced DMC4 20 minute install deserved its outrage) but I know my 60GB is in much need of an upgrade. With the exception of 3.5GB of movies from the PS Store and about 1.5GB of music and pictures it is pretty much all game related stuff. I had to delete my MGS4 game data to prevent getting a low storage (less than 500MB available) warning every Thursday.

Fortunatley, only GT5: Prologue and Warhawk have such huge downloads attached to that data that I am unwilling to delete them.


Now what I do see outrage about is the "we can just patch it" mentality. Also, a lot of people are noticing that the paid add-on DLC is what you used to unlock by doing special things, which we now call trophies/achievements. The reasonable people are drawing a definitive difference between small add-on outfits and costumes and an actual expansion.

Personally, I got over the DLC idea and I think in many cases we just learned to accept the problems that now get patched. I mean, I only got 98.6% complete on GT2. Today that would be fixed.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Very interesting side topic, but one question though...

(although the referenced DMC4 20 minute install deserved its outrage)

Did it though? If playing a game off the HDD can save you more than 20 minutes of multiple load times during play where you are not likely going to take a 10 sec break each time, but instead you can install the game, go and do something else for 20 minutes and then save all that extra time wasted during in-game when ever it needs to pause and load additional data.

That's the logic that always seemed to be missing from those that screamed bloody murder because of the time it took to installs some of these games... when in fact they are saving time.

Now I get why those with HDDs that are all ready full have an issue with it, and certainly installs really aught to be an option rather than a requirement, but at the end of the day, if you have the space for it on your HDD, installing games is a plus, not a negative. In fact, even if you don't, one could argue it's still better to just delete game instals you currently aren't playing to make room for ones you do... or just go out and buy a bigger HDD. In other words, there is no shortage of options, one way or the other. 👍

 

[nk4e]

Off Topic: Wouldn't installing the games really save some work for the laser? Certain Xbox360 games are at least 8 gigs per game.
COD4 is 7.1gb(with map pack)
COD:W@W is around 6.5gb
Forza 2 is 5.4 gb

 

[paskowitz]

For some reason I do not think load times will be a problem. That is one of the things PD has done really well. GT4 has very short loading times for a such a large game. GT5p also has short load times. I can be race in about 1:30sec from the time I put in the disc. Each track only takes a couple of seconds even if GT5 takes 10 seconds per track that is not that bad. As long as the loading times are not like the Orange Box (FOREVER!!) then I can deal. GT5 will more than likely come with a large install but seriously its not a big deal.

 

[Peter]

This is definately not 12 year old's conversation, ur all to complicated. So im off to go be bored.

 

[RedBaron]

I have no problem with GT4 or GT5 loading times, but quirky menu navigation and it continues even in Prologue. When you are already at the circuit, you can't change your car? You have to cancel the loaded track and go back to garage to select another car, why the hell is PD tyrranizing us with this?! We all would be very pleased if garage were accessible from race menu.

 

[nk4e]

This is definately not 12 year old's conversation, ur all to complicated. So im off to go be bored.

Welcome to GTP.

 

[FoolKiller]

Did it though? If playing a game off the HDD can save you more than 20 minutes of multiple load times during play where you are not likely going to take a 10 sec break each time, but instead you can install the game, go and do something else for 20 minutes and then save all that extra time wasted during in-game when ever it needs to pause and load additional data.

20 minutes for the install was crazy. Since then Capcom has gotten the RE5 install times to be much shorter. Bioshock also has a 5GB install. I didn't complain about it because it was nearly finishefd in the time it took me to go pee and fill a water bottle at the sink (with water, not pee).

I don't find the install itself problematic, just the 20 minutes it took to do it. MGS4 totals about 15 minutes of install time, but breaks it up between chapters so you don't feel like you just wasted a ton of time.

You also have to remember that DMC4 was the first large install, so the unusually large install time caught people off guard. Imagine, you get your new game, you have about 45 minutes free to play right now, and you pop it in. By the time you can actually play half your free time is gone. You'll note most complainst these days are just related to hard drive space.

That's the logic that always seemed to be missing from those that screamed bloody murder because of the time it took to installs some of these games... when in fact they are saving time.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some of the multiplatform games put out early on turned out to be shoddy ports, ad even after the HDD install load times were longer on the PS3 than the 360. Again, it is a developer issue, not a Sony issue, but mobs don't think that clearly.

but at the end of the day, if you have the space for it on your HDD, installing games is a plus, not a negative.

Which is why the 360 now has that as an option. But in the case of at least Halo 3 data was organized on the disc in a way that it actually loads faster from the DVD than the hard drive.

or just go out and buy a bigger HDD. In other words, there is no shortage of options, one way or the other. 👍

The buying a bigger HDD thing kind of irks some because after paying $400- $600 for a system you need to spend in the $100 range to avoid storage space hassles. Personally for me, the moment I realized I could switch out HDDs I planned to, and at that time I had no clue there was an install issue. Now I just have to actually do that.

GT5p also has short load times.

GT5P also has an HDD install. It had better have short load times.