On which plattform do you think/do you want GT6 to be released?

[Raggadish]

Okay.

-First link is from february 2010. Since then Sony has release a new version which is no doubt cheaper to make, possibly profitable. This link doesn't reaffirm your earlier statement. Information outdated.

-Second link is from 2005. Information outdated.

-Third link is current, but actually (somewhat)contradicts your earlier statement regarding Nintendo, and I quote: "With the difference that nintendo always earns money."

-Fourth link is an estimate by the all knowingly and always correct(sarcasm) Michael Pachter. That's more of a indication then actual fact, at best.


Got any links or other info which is relevant today, as loss/profit on hardware changes from fiscal year to fiscal year and all links you've provided are either outdated, contradictnary or speculation. I ask of relative new sources since your post made the notion of their current financial standing in the console hardware market.

I'm not on a witch hunt, I'm just slowly trying to get you see that it's very difficult to back up those claims you've made. No hard feelings.

 

[Tapey]

Last information I saw on PS3 hardware was that Sony had actually started to turn a profit with each console sold. If I recall correctly, this was around the time that they launched the original slim PS3, not the recent super slim. I imagine Google would turn up the relevant information to confirm this, if anyone felt the need to double check.

I'd also say that Aven's claims of Sony losing money in every single market is inaccurate, since every report I've seen of Sony being in financial trouble is always quick to point out that Sony Computer Entertainment is actually one of the few divisions bringing in cash and keeping the company afloat. It's their troubles in other markets (TV in particular) where they're suffering and losing money, the console business is actually doing very well for them, although obviously nowhere near as well as the last console generation.

It's also worth noting as well, that after the original Xbox was a massive loss for Microsoft along with the Xbox 360 (of which the red ring fiasco cost them billions as well) they were actually very close to pulling the plug on their entertainment division. Between the massive losses they suffered trying to muscle into the console market (nevermind the huge sums of cash to pay publishers for exclusive content, $50 million to Rockstar being a prime example), along with hardware reliability issues and the Zune failing to take off like they planned, shareholders were demanding that Microsoft pulled the plug on it all as recent as about four years ago since it was hemorrhaging money. Luckily however, they had the funds and resources to rough it out regardless due to Windows being such a cash cow for them.

I have a suspicion that despite profits, the huge money that the company has had to sink into everything (I'm not sure they've recovered r&d costs for Kinect yet, either) has yet to be recovered, either. I can't help but wonder if revenue generated by Xbox Live is what's actually seeing the Xbox business continue, even if Activision now takes a cut of the subscription fees (that's why the price went up a while back).

One thing is certainly for sure though, both Sony and Microsoft struggled a lot early on in this console generation. Thankfully Microsoft was able to rely on cash from other divisions to muscle their way ahead regardless, and Sony had the massive amounts of revenue from the PS2 era to see them through as well. I think it will be very interesting to see how the next console generation progresses however, since Sony now doesn't have anything else to fall back on and Microsoft is suffering some incredibly tough competition from Apple's explosion this past few years.

Having said all that however, I'm rather curious as to what it would be like if Sony and Microsoft one day collaborated on a new console together, as unrealistic as that sounds. Polyphony Digital working together with Turn 10 would likely result in a spectacular game Granza Motorismo!

Seriously though, a game that features Deep Forest and Trial Mountain as well as Maple Valley and Bernese Alps? Yes please 👍

 

[avens]

Okay.

-First link is from february 2010. Since then Sony has release a new version which is no doubt cheaper to make, possibly profitable. This link doesn't reaffirm your earlier statement. Information outdated.

-Second link is from 2005. Information outdated.

-Third link is current, but actually (somewhat)contradicts your earlier statement regarding Nintendo, and I quote: "With the difference that nintendo always earns money."

-Fourth link is an estimate by the all knowingly and always correct(sarcasm) Michael Pachter. That's more of a indication then actual fact, at best.


Got any links or other info which is relevant today, as loss/profit on hardware changes from fiscal year to fiscal year and all links you've provided are either outdated, contradictnary or speculation. I ask of relative new sources since your post made the notion of their current financial standing in the console hardware market.

I'm not on a witch hunt, I'm just slowly trying to get you see that it's very difficult to back up those claims you've made. No hard feelings.

Can't you read in context?

First of all, #507 says "edit: I remember reading both lose money with every console made. Nintendo is the only one that makes direct profit with the wii. "

Then I chose to show you the situation at release date then what happens afterwards: they all lose money at the beginning, then start losing less money with each console to the point they can start making revenue several years after their release. Again, nintendo is the exception as I pointed out in #507.

There's a reason why Pachter is the biggest name in gaming investment, which as you know is an industry bigger than music and movies.

And I think you know this thing called google, because you can use it too. I'm only showing you the tendencies with websites I found in less than 10 seconds, but there are free and paid articles everywhere.

 

[Raggadish]

Can't you read in context?

First of all, #507 says "edit: I remember reading both lose money with every console made. Nintendo is the only one that makes direct profit with the wii. "

Then I chose to show you the situation at release date then what happens afterwards: they all lose money at the beginning, then start losing less money with each console to the point they can start making revenue several years after their release. Again, nintendo is the exception as I pointed out in #507.

There's a reason why Pachter is the biggest name in gaming investment, which as you know is an industry bigger than music and movies.

And I think you know this thing called google, because you can use it too. I'm only showing you the tendencies with websites I found in less than 10 seconds, but there are free and paid articles everywhere.

While reading further I came to the realisation that we might be discussing different things.

I guess it was the wording that made us argument about different things, the word "is" as in current form in the sentences (from post 501) "Sony is losing..." and "...while microsoft is finally" would suggest Sony and Microsoft is currently losing money on it's hardware(which is not true and what was my counter argument). But in light of your latest post I've come to the realization that probably isn't what you're talking about, it might also (though quite heavyhanded) be read as an explaination on how hardware costs leads to initial loss (Sony, MS) and further down the line becomes profitable(which is the argument I believe you did in post 501).


Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[avens]

aren't we discussing about the ps4? Whole point is most probably sony will lose money with each ps4 at the beginning, and who knows for how much. What we know is they still did in 2010.

But that doesn't matter anyway, not now that the ps4 release is "amar confirmed"

 

[Conza]

Is it possible to reset this poll? Or just start this thread again and call it 'Part 2' with a new poll? I have a feeling most of the 'I want and think it'll be PS3' answers will become 'I want PS3 but think PS4' and most of the 'I want PS4 but think PS3' will become 'I want and think PS4'.

Or is that the point? Everyone thinks it'll be PS4, so now we're just down to 'well, it's a bad/good idea that it'll be on PS4' because of x, y, z?

 

[Samus]

I think most are just accepting it's on PS4. What's frustrating is that unless we get any concrete leaks of information we've more than likely got to wait until June 2013 and E3 for confirmation and details.

 

[thelvynau]

I can imagine it would be quite a surprise if it was announced for ps3 but everything points to ps4.

Looks like I wont be playing gt6 for a long while Im to happy with my ps3.

 

[ch3ng]

Is it possible to reset this poll? Or just start this thread again and call it 'Part 2' with a new poll? I have a feeling most of the 'I want and think it'll be PS3' answers will become 'I want PS3 but think PS4' and most of the 'I want PS4 but think PS3' will become 'I want and think PS4'.

Or is that the point? Everyone thinks it'll be PS4, so now we're just down to 'well, it's a bad/good idea that it'll be on PS4' because of x, y, z?

I can' make a new poll or delete the poll

What we can say is that in this generation all will sell their console with a loss including Nintendo with the Wii U. PS3 is a last gen console now.

I wonder what controller the PS4 will use? Anyway i think the poll don't show the current opinion anymore.

 

[Samus]

Not by the large amounts as the previous gen. Nintendo said they turn a profit as long as each person buying a console buys at least one full price game. So they're turning a loss on each one but only a small one . I expect the next Xbox and PS will be similar, not the huge losses as per this gen. Simply because the hardware jump won't be as massive and it won't cost them as much to produce.

 

[another_jakhole]

I can' make a new poll or delete the poll

What we can say is that in this generation all will sell their console with a loss including Nintendo with the Wii U. PS3 is a last gen console now.

I wonder what controller the PS4 will use? Anyway i think the poll don't show the current opinion anymore.

Seriously?



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BUMP

Not by the large amounts as the previous gen. Nintendo said they turn a profit as long as each person buying a console buys at least one full price game. So they're turning a loss on each one but only a small one . I expect the next Xbox and PS will be similar, not the huge losses as per this gen. Simply because the hardware jump won't be as massive and it won't cost them as much to produce.

 

[avens]

Not by the large amounts as the previous gen. Nintendo said they turn a profit as long as each person buying a console buys at least one full price game. So they're turning a loss on each one but only a small one . I expect the next Xbox and PS will be similar, not the huge losses as per this gen. Simply because the hardware jump won't be as massive and it won't cost them as much to produce.

I expect the 720 and ps4 loses will be more than 25% the console value at release date. This gen prices will be quite interesting considering everyone follows nintendo and they released the wii u at $300, which people in the industry think is expensive.

Who knows how much the wii u will be when those 2 are out, but they have to surpass the wii u in hardware by far since that's their selling point plus compete with it price wise, which is difficult considering it is at least one year old (lets say $250).

That's why some think they will have a subscription model alternative or others, which is huge loses at the beginning.

 

[Tapey]

It's worth noting that a chunk of the Wii U's manufacturing costs are for the controller, which is expensive to produce (I think I saw a figure of $100 somewhere?). If you assume that the PS4 does not have some fancy touchscreen controller and other such peripherals like a sensor bar, they could launch at the same price point as the Wii U with more powerful hardware and also turn a profit (as well as not having to dedicate half the system memory to the OS like Nintendo does).

Microsoft will be in a similar position to Nintendo however, since they will be pushing the next version of the Kinect quite hard with the next Xbox as far as I know, which will obviously add a sizable chunk to the manufacturing costs of each unit. If the multitude of leaked documents regarding hardware specs are correct however (and the probability of this is high considering how consistent they all are) then it is not deterring Microsoft from releasing a powerful console at all, which will be vastly superior to the Wii U in every regard.

I'd expect that we'll see a very noticeable difference between the next Xbox/PS4 and the Wii U, much like we saw this generation between the 360/PS3 and the Wii.

 

[Youngun]

Just putting this out there...
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/11/27/has-the-longest-console-generation-damaged-gaming

It has a good point, no new IPs so next gen should see a come back (PD for one)

 

[Samus]

Eh? Do you know what is meant by a new IP (Intellectual Property)? Because GT6 wouldn't be one.

 

[Youngun]

Just Saying, It may not be a new IP or a Third party IP but it still stand to reason "why is the next gen taking so long" New games are waiting it out causing damage to the industry, GTA V took the risk to go mass rather than new, Frame rate while driving at high speed and lack of pedestrians come to mind from GTAIV.
One new Third party game is Watch Dogs which seems close to being finished which i beieve is, and yet has no release date......as there waiting on next gen release (demod on a powerful pc during e3)......... which i think is what PD is doing.

 

[Tapey]

Interesting rumours from somebody apparently in the industry. Take these with a grain of salt obviously, but certain things (particularly the talk of Microsoft's manufacturing problems) match other industry leaks and chatter, which lends some credibility to this.

– Sony is near the middle end part of their Project Orbis, their next generation PS4. It will not be called Playstation 4, teams have started to call the final name as Omni. Omni will reflect their new hardware and content delivery philosophy. Omni will be “very capable” of doing modern day graphics compared to a Direct X 11 level of technology like Unreal Engine 4 and Frostbite 2. Compared to Wii U, it is better, but not the biggest leap in the world according to developer friends of mine. The key is the Omniviewer, a thin, lite and slick head mounted autosteroptic display that can track the users head and presents a 360 image view with semi transparent AMOLED screens. This can turn any TV into a 3D TV, as well as add extra augmented reality information outside of the TV screen. One application from an entertainment perspective seeing movies in 2k, 4k or IMAX resolutions as their original size where you have to move your head to look at the full picture being displayed. Can also synch with the Vita. The new controllers weather it’s the Duo-Moves or the Classic DuoShock will have pulse sensors in the grips for biofeedback gameplay. Plans are a Basic Unit with 160 gigs and just the system with controller at $350-$399 and one with the Omniviewer and a pack-in game for $450-$499. Aims are for a September 2013 launch.

– Omni is also part of their philosophy with the new OmniCloud, the new version of Gaktai. This service will not only cloud stream PS1, PS2 and select PS3 games to Playstation Certified devices but will also allow every digital and retail purchase to have access to a copy on the cloud. Basically, you buy one game, you can use it on any Plyastation device. Direct hardware Backwards Compatibility will be available by a $70 – $99 dongle that is plugged into the Omni that contains a PS3 on a chip with Cell to run games.

– Known first party games in development for Playstation Omni are: Next Gen Uncharted, Next Gen Siren, The Boydguard, Wipeout Omni, Bump In the Night, Killzone 4, Gran Turismo Prologue, Next Gen Media Molecule, Omni Fitness.



– Microsoft is the most vague out of all of them. It’s slated to be the most powerful out of all the next gen consoles about 4 to 6 times more powerful than Wii U and 2 to 3 times more powerful than Playstation Omni. The project has gone through many name iterations and will not be decided on until shortly before it’s E3 unveiling. Microsoft is also running into manufacturing issues and developers not having games done on time so instead of delaying the launch to Summer 2014, they are thinking of “soft launching” it Holiday November 2013 and then have a full blow out in the summer. All units will come with Kinect 2 built in which can track up to four people, all objects in the living room, clothing, face structure and fingers. It can also understand different voices and has it’s own PPU. In 2014, Microsoft will introduce the “LiveWall”, a omni-projection unit that will allow game environments to be projected nearly 360 degrees around the user. Useing Kinect 2, they have two demos of one that is a battlefield RTS and one that is a kung fu game with guys attacking all around. The LiveWall can also project diffrent images on the wall, so people can play different games on different walls. Microsoft is prepared to champion this unit as a cheaper and more effective alternative to wearing a “goofy stupid VR headset” to combat Sony’s Omniviewer while Sony is going to point out the low resolution quality and the lack of privacy. The system is going to be very expensive in the $499 range so Microsoft is planning on using a remolded X-Box Live (Possibly renamed X-Box Life) to offer a Pro (Gold) subscription two or three year contract to sell the unit at $300 – $399. The final goal with the tech is to shrink the system on a chip down enough so it can be put into tablets, PCs and Smart TVs so that all devices are X-Box ready.

– Known first party XBox Next games: Halo Trilogy Remake, Chief Samurai by Rare, Project Gotham Racing, Kinectimals 2, Rise, Carnival Park, Fable 4

 

[avens]

If that is true (which most probably isn't) then the next Gran Turismo game will be called Forza5

 

[Samus]

some of it seems possible, some of it very unlikely. I mean even if the part about September 2013 release were true that's still nearly a year away, there is no way they would have prices ready yet. It not being called PS4 also seems unlikely, the name sells.

Oh and a PS3 chip on a dongle for BC? I highly doubt that, it would just be screaming hack/reverse engineer.

Finally I really, really hope "Gran Turismo Prologue" is not true. I am not waiting 3 years from GT5 and then being slapped in the face with a prologue whilst the Xbox will likely have a full Forza game ready to go. I'll be buying the Xbox.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Finally I really, really hope "Gran Turismo Prologue" is not true. I am not waiting 3 years from GT5 and then being slapped in the face with a prologue whilst the Xbox will likely have a full Forza game ready to go. I'll be buying the Xbox.

I do agree with you on that one. Please just have a full version.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Finally I really, really hope "Gran Turismo Prologue" is not true. I am not waiting 3 years from GT5 and then being slapped in the face with a prologue whilst the Xbox will likely have a full Forza game ready to go. I'll be buying the Xbox.

I’m pretty sure that is GT7 Prologue.

 

[Samus]

I’m pretty sure that is GT7 Prologue.

The prologue part was my problem, not that it was lacking a number. Are you also suggesting that GT6 is still going to be on PS3?

 

[Tapey]

Finally I really, really hope "Gran Turismo Prologue" is not true. I am not waiting 3 years from GT5 and then being slapped in the face with a prologue whilst the Xbox will likely have a full Forza game ready to go. I'll be buying the Xbox.

Imagine if they released a Gran Turismo 6: Prologue a year or two after the launch of the PS4, and then a Gran Turismo 6: Prologue 2 a couple of years after that

 

[Chrunch Houston]

The prologue part was my problem, not that it was lacking a number.

You have completely missed my point.

The Prologue being developed for the PS4 will have a completely new game engine. It will be released to show off what PD can do with the new hardware. Oh and also to hold us over while we wait and wait and wait for the release of GT7.

We will see GT6, which is based on the current GT game engine, come out for the PS3.

 

[Samus]

You have completely missed my point.

The Prologue being developed for the PS4 will have a completely new game engine. It will be released to show off what PD can do with the new hardware. Oh and also to hold us over while we wait and wait and wait for the release of GT7.

We will see GT6, which is based on the current GT game engine, come out for the PS3.

I really don't think we will. Even if we do, I still have a problem with prologues in that I simply don't want them. I don't want Gran Turismo x Prologue, I don't want GTA Prologue, I don't want Halo Prologue. No to prologues.

 

[avens]

I always assumed there was going to be GT6.

It's easy money and more dev time.

 

[cassiusclay99]

Finally I really, really hope "Gran Turismo Prologue" is not true. I am not waiting 3 years from GT5 and then being slapped in the face with a prologue whilst the Xbox will likely have a full Forza game ready to go. I'll be buying the Xbox.

Same here... especially if it's more powerful. that would mean that for the first time Forza would be more beautiful than GT... And seeing how Turn10 gets their game better step by step, I can see Forza on next gen being nothing less than stunning.

 

[ch3ng]

You have completely missed my point.

The Prologue being developed for the PS4 will have a completely new game engine. It will be released to show off what PD can do with the new hardware. Oh and also to hold us over while we wait and wait and wait for the release of GT7.

We will see GT6, which is based on the current GT game engine, come out for the PS3.

A complete new engine? Proof?

 

[TokoTurismo]

I'm honestly putting my foot down and NOT believing there will be a "GT Prologue". Kaz and PD needs to focus on making the FULL game and not waste time on a demo... Seriously I rufuse to believe it. I just want full fledged GT6, period.

 

[Tapey]

Personally speaking, I wouldn't be against a GT6: Prologue if it came out shortly after the launch of the PS4, say within the first six to eight months. I would want it to have double the content of GT5: Prologue at minimum however. If it came out with say, all the premium cars from GT5 and about 10-15 tracks I'd be quite happy with that tiding us over until they get a full game out.

They could simply reuse the assets from GT5 since premium cars look fantastic and tracks such as Madrid, Tokyo R246 and London look spectacular. The only trouble would be creating a new engine for the PS4 (since their old one will no doubt be optimized for the Cell processor in the PS3 which will be wildly different hardware) which I like to think they could accomplish in the time between the launch of GT5 and the release of the PS4.